We Are Going To Lose This Election

[ThomWV]

For months I have been predicting a Kerry landslide, something on the order of 60/40. I now doubt that it will work out that way and in fact I am becomming convinced that we are going to lose this election.

We do not have to lose it, but if John Kerry and John Edwards contine to lay down in the face of filth like that spewed by Zell Miller this past week we do not stand a chance. That 11 point bounce we all deny exists is real and it comes from the junk-yard-dog attack against is. That attack has gone mostly unanswered, just as it did when Al Gore was running, and the effect of letting it go by will be the same. We will lose. The only counter to this is to get mean. I mean real mean. It is pure nonsense that the people only want to hear about the issues. Bush has proven that by never addressing the issues but holding onto a lead that we refuse to face.

You mark my words, if we do not get mean, very mean indeed and very mean very soon we do not stand a chance in this comming election. Do any of you really understand how important this election is to our country's survival? It would seem not.

[madmax]

1. Check out this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x744500

:hi: :P

[greenohio]

53. This is nonsense

Kerry will win if he comes out forcefully against this illegal war.

[greenohio]

54. I expect an apology for this thread when we win.

All those threads out there predicting doom and gloom immediately after the RNC should be noted so they can apologize on Nov. 3.

[2Design]

2. LOL have a great day....get out and get some sun for a sunny attitude

[Cuban_Liberal]

3. "...if John Kerry and John Edwards contine to lay down...."

They haven't, although the media has been doing its best to ignore their responses.

[JI7]

27. it's not just the media that ignores it

posts on du about what kerry and edwards are doing are often ignored.

and edwards had been defending kerry months ago on his military service and he went after bush,cheney and other chickenhawks during that time also for attacking kerry while not serving themselves. this was even before kerry made edwards his vp. i know this because i posted on these things during this time. but they rarely got responses.

[Kazak]

4. Uh...Gore didn't lose...

This is utter nonsense, IMHO.

:shrug:

[brainshrub]

5. The only thing we have to fear is:

Black Box Voteing.

Otherwise: "Kerry in a landslide."

[Spiffarino]

6. Chill, baby!

Most of us knew up front the Shrub would get a bounce from his convention. Kerry got one, too, but it was spun in the press to look like a defeat.

Face it Thom, big media want Bush, period. If we let them control our attitude we lose. That's the plan. Our job is to remain motivated and work hard to get Kerry/Edwards elected. That means people like you have to snap out of it and start talking up the team!

The only way they win is if they steal it from us by taking away our spirit. We have the smartest, strongest candidates and the most powerful message. RoveCo has nothing but fear and negativity. The only way they beat us is if they can suppress our will AND WE WON'T LET 'EM!!


On edit: missed a key point

[Michaelw80]

7. Don't ever give up

We have to continue to fight and night have negative attitudes.

[madmax]

20. Welcome to DU Micahelw80

:hi:

:kick:

[newyawker99]

24. Hi Michaelw80!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

55. Exactly

That big media is the same pundintocracy that predicted Clinton would be ousted from offce. Didn't happen.

Kerry's a fighter. In his last Senate race former Massachussetts Governer William Weld lead Kerry in the polls by about the same spread the Time/CNN poll shows. Kerry went on to win the race.

[gristy]

8. I don'tknow if I yet share your level of pessimism, but I am worried

Yesterday as I was thinking about what it might mean to me and our country if Bush is (s)elected for four more years, I found myself sometimes thinking "well, it might not be so bad..." But then (I'm sorry to admit), I had occasionally said the same thing to myself when Bush invaded Iraq.

If Bush is elected, things ARE going to be bad, very bad indeed. He is going to attempt to use the military to intimidate (he can't invade everybody) the world into submission. He is going to further reduce taxes on the rich, and, by extension, increase the tax burden on the poor and those whose income is from wages. The job of transforming the job of making the mass media a tool of the gov't will be complete.

If nothing else, the RNC and Bush's speech in particular was surely a demonstration of psychological manipulation. I'd love to see some expert psychologists weigh in on how just how they did this.

Kerry can still win, but he's going to have to understand how bush got that bounce, effectively neutralize what he is doing, and then do his own share of "manipulation". You're right. Sticking to the issues is NOT going to cut it. And he is going to need to get "mean".

[King Coal]

9. This must be your first rodeo.

[ThomWV]

10. I have voted in every election since 1968

I am not quite as old as you, but my 60th year is not that far away. I have paid attention to every election I have ever been eligible to vote in and in fact aside from just a few local elections I have never missed one. I am not new to this.

We are going to lose if we continue on our current course. The in-your-face tactics of the Republican party are working and working well. Deny it at your own peril.

[King Coal]

12. Are you believing the Time poll?

[NoPasaran]

11. Oh great, another Chicken Little thread

bwak

bwak

bwak

[oasis]

34. Chicken belittler is more like it.

[homelandpunk]

51. So do you score some kind of brownie points

every time one of you post sarcasm to posts about the coming coup/defeat by referencing Chicken Little or Henny Penny?
Or do they pay real cash for each Chicken Little or Henny Penny reference?

[belle]

13. You've been predicting Kerry in a landslide, but since Bush got a bounce

from HIS CONVENTION THIS WEEK, you now think we're all doomed?

A bit easily swayed in either direction, aren't you?

[freetobegay]

14. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

:eyes:

[wurzel]

15. Kerry had to save his money, and we don't get free media.

Kerry could not reply to all the lies because he would have had to use his fixed Federal funds. This would have give Bush a huge advantage today. That is why the Swiftboat smears were timed the way they were. Now Bush and Kerry are on an even playing field with regard to money. Does Kerry have to get mean? Bring Back Carville!!

[Spiffarino]

56. Yowzuh...we need the Ragin' Cajun!

John Kerry, read our lips: Dump Bob Shrum and get somebody with some street skills!

[Deja Q]

16. We need to be convncing and on their level. Not sugar sweet or vile mean.

We need to talk to the people on THEIR level while pointing out the truth about the diarrhea* in power right now and their lackeys.

We mustn't appear righteous, condescending, or "smarter than anybody else'.

We MUST act as if we're out for their best interests. For unlike the rethuglicans, we actually ARE for their best interests.

(and for "their" read "all of us".)

[Kierkegaard]

17. The bounce isn't real.

If you were paying any attention at all, the RNC was resoundingly rebutted by both Kerry and Edwards right after the Borscht speech. What, do you think they are kicked back in a recliner somewhere watching reruns of I love Lucy and drinking a few beers? These guys are scouring the country, talking to real people, kicking ass and taking names! Just because Faux has an agenda and you don't see "Kerry is destroying Bush" in every fucking headline doesn't mean JACK SHIT! It's pretty obvious that the media IS NOT IN OUR CORNER, and it isn't Kerry's fault.

Kerry is in much better position to win this election than Gore was in 2000.

Gore took a huge lead early and watched it piss away down the stretch. He was trailing from October on, by 4 - 5 points. Kerry has consistent numbers so far, and is within the margin of error, even at the height of the RNC. You don't think that's good???

There have been unprecedented levels of cooperation among democratic factions, history making demonstrations, crowds attending Kerry appearances in impossible numbers(Portland, anyone?) Borscht has 4 miserable years of non-service hanging around his neck like a giant albatross, forcing voters to sign pledges of support in order to attend 'public' speaking engagements. You think people aren't going to remember that?

This guy is hated, where he was merely an unknown commodity in 2k. Gore was totally invisible.

There is little doubt according to polling that Borscht policy is unpopular and damaging. He can't run on any real issue without pulling the plug on himself. He's trapped in a character assassination campaign, in a world unfriendly to that practice. We're sick of it and it turns off lots of voters. We have an open landscape to discuss a myriad of subjects, one of which is the treachery of this administration. But, it isn't the ONLY subject that needs to be discussed.

Kerry is able to keep up monetarily, where Gore was terribly outspent. We'll at least be competitive in advertising media, thanks in part to outlets like MoveOn.

Despite those handicaps, Gore actually won. Borscht is going down hard, and Kerry is going to be the man that takes him to the mat.

So, get yourself a crying towel and get this crap out of your system. If your support consists of second-guessing, criticizing and whining, then we can do without it. Get the hell out of the way, because the rest of us have work to do.

[cap]

18. get off the net and bop down to the campaign hq

and GET TO WORK!!!

also, dont worry, kitty kelly's book is comin out. Larry Flynt's millions have gotten people to talk

[reprehensor]

19. Go get busy.

My wife is registering voters today. WTF are you doing?

[zeemike]

21. So far things are going

Just as I predicted six months ago.
The Media makes the story all about the negative of Kerry and ignores any negative for bush. Just like they did to Gore.
Just look at the Swift boat thing. that story lasted 2 weeks even though most of it was repudiated as lies, but the media had two weeks of repeating the lie. And we all know that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth to some people.
If Kerry is to win two things must happen. First he must get ahead of the curve and put Bush on the defensive and force the media to cover it with dogged attacks that they cannot ignore. Next they must turn out the vote by energizing the voters, because right now they are demoralized by hearing the constant drum beat of negative news.
And frankly if he does none of these things I will have to believe that he is a Paloka put up by some RW conspiracy to make bush the leader of a new world order that scares me.

[leesa]

22. There is no way Bush will be elected, but they can steal it.

They most certainly will try. I think Kerry is doing what he can in light of having a White House controlled media. He's drawing huge crowds that Bush can't possibly draw. Many of his supporters are paid or volunteer operatives who are bussed from one event to the next.
It's up to us to get people out to vote and to talk to people about their situation.

[mbee]

23. I just emailed Zell Miller and told him to return the contributions to

the Democrats who donated to him and get out of our party and that we do not need someone who supports the crime machine at the White House.

[KennedyGuy]

25. couple thoughts...

First of all...Gore may inded have won, but I find little solace in that fact when Bush has been allowed to run the country. Secondly...it is beginning to look as though this bounce is real. Kos has a newsweek poll out that gives the same 10 point or so lead. Denying it exists isn't going to help anybody out here. I am not convinced that Kerry is going to lose, however I am beginning to become very concerned. The Kerry team needs to step it up and get moving. They cannot continue to let the media and Bush team define them. They were bamboozled into the "no Bush bashing" at the convention only to get hammered at Shrubs convention. This is making Kerry look very weak. And before you say it, yes I will become involved in the campaign, but not until I see Kerry himself, fighting as hard as you all want me to.

[Clinton Crusader]

32. I agree with some of this

I am so freakin pissed we stood back at our convention and had the 'hands off' stance. No shrub bashing. And then they ripped Kerry's face off at theirs. Why the nicey nice shit? I bet they regret it now.

John Edwards looks like a choir boy, but something tells me I wouldnt want to play poker with this guy. Remember he IS a trial lawyer. He better start showing his more lawyer-ish side and SOON. I agree with KennedyGuy in the respect that I want to see a sharper more pit bull attitude from the KE Team and SOON, like YESTERDAY. It was heartening indeed to hear JK on Thursday night in Ohio atack Cheney on his deferrments. We need this 24x7 from the KE team and all their staff and Dems all around. The Repugs get their 'memo' in the morning and it's you hear all fucking day long on tv and radio, they're all on the same page.

All Dems have to be on the same page every day. If I dont start seeing Dems getting vicious, I will assume they simply dont want to win this election. I see NO senators, no reps, no one from the Dem party anywhere. WHERE is AL Gore? If he's around, I havent seen him. I see Dean, he's about the only one.

And maybe this will all come to pass after Labor Day.
:kick:

[MrBenchley]

26. Jeeze, if winning at all costs is that important to you

join the GOP...

"that spewed by Zell Miller this past week"
Gee, do you suppose there's a reason that the GOP has been running around since Zell finished speaking going "Zell who?"


"if we do not get mean, very mean indeed"
So who shall we have Obama challenge to a duel? Maybe he can slap Rush Limbaugh across the chops with a glove.

[mzmolly]

40. No lets lose while we hold our head high.

:eyes:

Screw that, it's about WINNING.

[mbali]

44. Obama smacking Rush w/glove - priceless!

[West Coast Democrat]

28. Yeah, yeah, yeah...and Gore is running a lousy campaign, memes, memes.....

memes....remember that one? We don't need anymore.

[Bake]

49. Truth is, Gore DID run a lousy campaign

His performance in the debates was awful - the eye-rolling, sighing, etc. He ran a lousy campaign.

Kerry, so far, has NOT made the same mistakes. And I believe he will do extremely well in the debates.

But I admit that I'm worried, because the Pukes have shown they will do ANYTHING to win, and we all know they fight dirty. Calling me Chicken Little is not constructive.

Bake

[TruthIsAll]

29. You were way off with 60-40. It will be 52-48. We will win.

tia

[Th1onein]

30. I very much disagree with you.

I also think that the press is feeding us bullshit about a "bounce" for Bush from the convention. You can tell that the Repugs are on the defensive because of the attacks that they levied during their own convention. They talked more about the Dems than they did about their own party platform.

Bush is going to lose in a landslide.

[DeepModem Mom]

31. ThomWV, your view is as valid as anyone's --

I won't say if I agree or not, but I will say that some here are in denial about the uphill battle we face. I'm sorry your post was met with such scorn.

[quinnox]

33. It's a cliche, but true - two months is an eternity in politics

You never know what new controversy might come down the pike that will sink the Bush campaign.

That said, yes right now Bush is leading. And he MIGHT win. No one can deny it is a possibility. Which is why it is important the Dems retake the Senate in case of this scenario.

But even if Dems don't and Repubs run the table and it is the worst case scenario there are some developments that might be interesting.

There are rumors of a civil war on the horizon going to happen in the GOP party no matter what happens if Bush wins or loses between the moderates/deficit hawks and the bigspenders/interventionists neo-cons.

Bush could end up a lame duck as soon as he is inaugerated for a second term.

[roseBudd]

35. Grass roots media campaign to benefit Kerry

Please print and distribute the image above. Put them on car windows. Hand them out on street corners. We don't need TV buys to get some attention on this issue. We have to undermine Bushs perceived strength. We all are potential disseminators of printed media. We do not need newspapers permission or lots of money for commercials. We need viral grass roots marketing. We need to create a buzz. If we create a buzz with massive distribution of printed ads we will get media coverage. If these start miraculously appearing and no one knows where they are coming from it will start to get media attention.

INCOMPETENCE is key

high resolution version for printing here:
http://somnamblst.tripod.com/

[RetroLounge]

36. Yawn

RL

[Tomee450]

37. I am worried too.

There is a Newsweek poll out also showing Bush with a substantial lead. I am beginning to believe there is a real chance that Bush will win. The Democrats don't seem to realize that their opponents are tough;they fight to win. Unless the campaign becomes more aggressive, we are in trouble. I am trying to do my part by telling people not inclined to vote just how important it is for them to vote this time.

[oasis]

46. A famous democratic strategist suggested that we ignore the polls. Since

recent polls are obviously inaccurate because of the bogus data input, I'm inclined to believe the strategist.

[gatorboy]

38. I still have faith that Americans will come out in droves in November

and vote Bush out.
Remember the right just before F-9/11 came out and how they were sure the majority of America would ignore the movie? They predicted a failure. Even O'Reilly said it would top out at $50 million. But at $100 million+, the movie is still going strong. Not to mention, in October it will be out on DVD and a good portion of Americans wait for DVD. Don't listen to a Newsweek poll that polls 71 more Republicans then Democrats to fix it's results.

[MaineDem]

39. "Do any of you really understand how important this election is..."

Pardon me for jumping in here. I only have a minute to be online because I've been doing campaing work alld ay and have to go back out in a bit.

You bet your butt I understand how important this election is. And I'm not spending any effort here at DU crying about how the election is lost, 2 months before it's held.

I think your subject line is a shame and I'm sorry to see so many gloom and doom posts here. I'm just one person but I'm ignoring most of these posts and spending my time working to make sure that those of you crying about the sorry state of the Kerry campaign are proved incorrect.

I hope everyone spends at least one hour between now and the election doing something for your county Democrats. Even one hour of calling or canvassing or staffing an office will be an amazing amount of help.

Or you can whine on an internet message board about how poorly our campaign is doing.

Your choice.

[bagnana]

41. I want to see character assassination

We don't even have to lie:

Bush = cowardly liar who freezes or runs in the face of personal peril but sends others to die. He lacks the character to lead in a time of war. Don't capitalize on the "smart" part because 99% of the American public are just as "smart" as Bush and apparently like it that way.

Cheney = A traitorous, heartless war criminal -- he traded with the enemy to line his pockets. Darth Cheney.

These are simple. It puts them on the defense. Bush is a cowardly liar. He freezes, he runs, he sends others to fight. He's chickening out, he's running away. Brave, brave, sir Bush.

They can and must be ridiculed and reduced to one line descriptions. Cowardly liar. Heartless war criminal. Cowardly liar. Greedy war criminal. Cowardly liar, greedy war criminal.

[Awsi Dooger]

42. At this point Bush would win

Two months ago, a primary topic was how much impact Reagan's death would have in boosting Bush's chances. Long forgotten. Two months remain.

Kerry cannot afford to go mean because he is not effective in that mode, in facial expressions or tone. Kerry's favorability and likability ratings will only tumble if he continues on this "unfit to lead" masochism regarding Bush. That rebuttal speech the other night was dreadful, completely opposite what he needed. The populace has made up its mind about Bush and he is vulnerable. But only if Kerry sells himself and the likelihood of a better short term future can he pull this off in a squeaker. He needs coherent big picture themes with memorable and effective slogans.

DUers continually make the mistake of comparing our strategies to the Republicans and desperately wanting to follow their vicious lead. That's remarkable forgetfulness, since Clinton was anything but an attack dog and our only successful presidential candidate since '76.

[TeacherCreature]

43. I am very worried too, and out in the REAL world many of us are...

...we REALLY REALLY are.

No matter how much some of our well-meaning comrades strive to deny it, this has been a bad month for the Kerry camapign and we are ill-served to continue to deny it.

I don't claim to possess the expertise and wisdom to know how to turn this around, but if things do not improve very soon, you are going to begin to see a lot more people geting very upset.

[NicRic]

45. Time to end the frustration of passiveness !

I wonder if the Dems had stood up to bush from the start, that we would not have to go thru a election filled with such frustration .We have the liers getting more and more people believe the truth tellers to be the liers. We have chickenhawks ,getting others to believe they are brave and strong and the true hero to be the chicken ! Everything it upside down ,whats wrong is right and whats right never gets told ! Iam the most frustrated I've ever been in a election where the choices, should be clear and yet its more out of focus then ever ! I wish I knew tha magic way we need to get thru to the voters that are being conned into believeing that bush is some great leader , in his speeches he talks about taking positive action on health care and jobs ,education etc. However us that know this Presidents record, know he could give a rats ass about these issuses, yet no-one ,and no new agencies point out his dismal record in all of these areas ! He the President is the biggest liar of all, has somehow gotten others to ? Kerry's honesty over his own. If the people running Kerrys bid for the Presidnecy have been telling him ,not yet ,we will tell you when to start pouncing on bush and his lies and minipulation of the American voters , they better give him the nod NOW ! Iam tired of waiting for truth to overcome deception , for the good guys to win over the bad guys. I say full speed ahead and let the chips fall where the will, not only is this waiting making people like me ,just plain old tired and tunning out,we are waiting for the Dems to fight back , tired of being kicked around, they need a shot of testosterone , and attack and attack from now to election day !!!

[suegeo]

47. Black box voting, and the whore press

I hate to admit it, but the rigged voting machines and the worse-than-useless, once-free press may just pull off another stolen election for the Bush Crime Family.

If there were a level playing field, I might feel better about restoring Democracy to the USA.

But the Junta successfully stole the last presidential election and they are likely to do it again. (The 2002 election was also rigged in several states, in my opinion.)

Especially if the killers are looking at serving some time in prison for war crimes, without a win.

And the majority of Americans continue to sleep through it all.

[Bongo Prophet]

48. You are ENERGIZED! Good! Channel that energy then.

If you want to emphasize MEAN, that's a valid technique for those who will respond well to that.

We all need to tailor our message to each person by istening and responding. Educating those who feel/think thay are missing pieces of the puzzle.
Addressing concerns of people, once we LISTEN to what those concerns are.
Ranting for those who will be impressed by your passion of the importance of regime change may work with apathetic types who just had no idea that their apathy helps the BFEE.
And so on. Each person may need a different approach!

Just playing prophet of gloom, after months of playing at unrealistically optimistic, is a personal matter for you to deal with.
Have you ever had to do any teamwork and had a member of the team bitching the whole time? "If we don't do it MY way, we'll never make it! Mark my words!" It is a drag on everyone else, and makes it harder to accomplish the common GOAL.
Find people who aren't motivated and motivate them with your anger, ONCE you determine that it will help! Every vote you get will make you feel better...and in the end, the GOAL is what matters.

I will assume that most, if not all, of the D&G'ers are honestly dealing with hope versus despair issues. We are ALL dealing with that to some degree, I would imagine, according to personality.
All I can say is - work within your abilities and personal strangths to meet our common goal. WV is an important state and you CAN make a difference there.
Good luck with that!:toast:

[aikidoodler]

50. We are going to win this election

We will fight back and we will win. Simple as that. At the risk of using hackneyed sports analogies, this isn't even half-time in the game. Everything up till now has been the cheerleaders yelling at each other.

Support your team and stop the whining.

[George W. Dunce]

52. Come on people

60 Minutes will be very interesting this week, it's must see TV. Should make a dent in the 10% bounce. Kerry is a good closer, you all know this. I have read it 100 times in countless threads over the past month. The election is a little less then two months away and we have yet to have one debate. John will answer the call, like he has done before with Weld and most recently in Iowa. I don't recall the Freepers wigging out like this when they fell behind, lets show some backbone.

[Spiffarino]

57. Freepers don't worry about Shrub's standing in the polls

...because they know he has "special" plans for winning. Thankfully, we have a buttload of lawyers on our side to hand out provisional ballots and raise holy hell in states where the integrity of the vote is in question.

[devinsgram]

58. Excuse me, did I miss something

like they're moving the election up to this Tuesday. My gosh there is still 59 more days till the election. A whole hell of lot can happen in that time, even with the lousy media we have. I for one am not giving up the ship. We will it sail into victory. I'm already making my victory party plans. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: