The Catholic Church really wants to poke it's head into this election?

[thunder rising]

Has so much of God's work been accomplished that you can finance PACs and campaigns? The last two elections were the wacko Southern Babtist types (fundies), but now with a new Pope the Catholic Church wants to interfere with our politics.

I really don't give a damn about how they pray or what they pray to, but do not become a political arm for either party. If nothing else, protect your tax-exempt status.

[kansasblue]

1. This last Sunday our Catholic church played a video in church....

which highlighted their statewide commercials for Respect Life week. Pro-life ads.

[patrice]

3. Did they say ANYTHING about the MASS abortion known as War?

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. But...what about the WAR?

Remember? "You go without God..."?

The war that McNapalm wants to last for 100 years and that Obama will end?

[patrice]

2. Power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts ultimately. It's so obvious; when people resign their

autonomy to anything/anyone, the locus of that power is corrupted.

[thunder rising]

7. do you read what you write ... or just make shit up as the words appear?

[patrice]

11. It is possible that the problem is yours.

[firedupdem]

4. Doesn't the catholic church have some other things to concentrate on? n/t

[anonymous171]

5. Looks like the Opus Dei types are back in control.

Fuck. :(

[rwenos]

9. "This council does not exist . . .

. . . as it has never existed."

--Bishop Aringarosa in "The DaVinci Code.

[boppers]

12. Oy. Don't use pop-literature as a useful source.

They're so super-seekrit they have a website.

http://www.opusdei.org/

Brown's work is mostly derivative of a mashup of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", "Foucault's Pendulum", and other (better) conspiracy literature.

[rwenos]

15. You're Right, But

DaVinci Code IS a mashup of "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and "Foucault's Pendulum." But it's a fun story (much better at keeping one turning the pages than anything else Brown has written), and I'm always a sucker for a good story.

I like Alexandre Dumas pere too. Also Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Gogol, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Mario Puso, Ian Fleming, Dorothy L. Sayres, James Ellroy and William Gibson. Call me a plot whore.

On edit:

Dan Brown's other novels SUCK. Never having finished one myself, though, it's hard to throw stones.

[boppers]

16. Fleming? Heh.

So, you're "chase" first and historical accuracy second? It often makes for a greater yarn that way.

I'm a bit of a pedantic wonk on the accuracy, as it interrupts my brain mid-chase when a detail is wrong.

Either way, my first non-fiction 500+pp work is still selling, and my huge reference guide is now in 18+ languages, so I have a little bit of the "can I sell/publish this" pressure taken off.

Either way, if I could say anything to you (and others reading this), it gets easier once you have published works.

All that being said, I believe that Dan Brown and J. K. Rowling are what's wrong with literature, an intentional stupefying of material in order to make books "accessible".

[rwenos]

17. Your Stuff Sounds Wonderful

And I'm not defending Dan Brown -- from what I hear he's an arrogant jerk. But he wrote a fun novel. I LIKE fun novels. If YOU wrote a novel, and it was fun, I would like it. I don't read novels for historical accuracy. I read them as stories, nothing more, nothing less. I recognize that makes me a "plot whore," which is why I freely label myself thus.

If I want to read history, I read history.

I worked in the publishing business long enough to know that writing is hard work, some of the hardest. People who write stuff that other people like have my admiration. If you're in that group of working writers, you have my admiration and congratulations.

Perhaps we share a distaste for the avant-garde and solipsistic "modern" novels?

[boppers]

19. I do appreciate the first round of emo stories.

The thing that bugs me isn't the first wave, I suppose, but all the copycats, and the work written for grade school children that adults are picking up.

[rwenos]

21. You Mean the Copycats Like . . .

Dumas, whose "Count of Monte Cristo" bears a striking resemblance to The Odyssey? Or Rebecca, which is strikingly similar to Jane Eyre? Or "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", which is strikingly similar in theme (if not in narrative form) to Frankenstein?

I'm just funning you. It's been a pleasure to talk about books, my first love after my family.

[boppers]

22. Hey, you rock.

Let's cross sabers again.

[jakem]

34. ok, was going to pass over this thread hijack, but...

Rowling is what is wrong with literature?

???

explain please!

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Alas... their tax exempt status is in no danger and that is a BIG part...

of the problemma.

The American RC church is run by politically conservative republicans. There are (probably) some quiet priests and even bishops who identify with the DEM camp but we will not hear from them because of potential ( almost certain, actually) repercussions from the conservative hierarchy.

[Beregond2]

10. My sister-in-law is Catholic, and used to be very pro-life.

I have noticed lately that she has come around to the opinion that the best way to prevent abortions is to address the underlying causes, not by making them illegal. That has freed her to support Democrats, where all her other natural allegiances lie. I think she is very typical of Amrican Catholics, both secular and lay. The higher-ups have to toe the Vatican line, but they do not reflect the opinions of their flock.

[WinkyDink]

26. Anti-choice. To say "pro-life" is to say the other side is "pro-death".

[Beregond2]

35. Agreed, but I was using "their" terminology.

Obviously, I meant "clerical and lay," not "secular."

[sandnsea]

13. You missed the bishops' attacks on John Kerry?

The Church has been interfering with our politics for quite a while now.

[CatholicEdHead]

18. They have also been going after Joe Biden lately

Anyone who does not toe the line 100% is easily denounced as "not Catholic". It is top down, not bottom up. :(

Edit: Also pushing Prop 8 in California and are now proposing a Constitutional Convention in CT.

[ladjf]

14. Who owns CNN? I think TIME used to be the owner and that

there was a considerable about of Catholic ownership in TIME. (I might be totally wrong about this.)

[RoadRage]

20. Does this count?? 106 year old Vatican Nun to Vote for Obama

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7665925.stm

106-year-old voter chooses Obama
By David Willey
BBC News, Rome

Sister Cecilia has lived in the convent in Rome for 50 years
A 106-year-old American nun living in a convent in Rome could well be one of the oldest voters to cast a ballot in the 2008 US Presidential election.

Sister Cecilia Gaudette, who last voted for President Eisenhower in 1952, has registered to vote and says she will vote for Democrat Barack Obama.

Although hard of hearing, she keeps herself informed by reading newspapers and watching TV at the convent.

"I'm encouraged by Senator Obama," she says.

"I've never met him, but he seems to be a good man with a good private life. That's the first thing. Then he must be able to govern," she adds.

Sitting in her modest office in the convent where she has lived for the past 50 years, the diminutive nun appears uninterested in the row inside the American Catholic church over Senator Obama's support for pro-choice policies on abortion.

Asked about her hopes for the US under an Obama presidency, she says: "Peace abroad. I don't worry about the Iraq war because I can't do anything about it. Lord knows how it will end."

"It is very complicated," she said. "Those Eastern people are not like we are."

But despite taking part in the 4 November election, Sister Cecilia does not intend to return to the US.

"I have no plans for the future. I am too old to go back to the US. Life has changed too much."

But she still watches "very important events" on TV. The election comes under this category.

[saltpoint]

23. I think a hell of a lot of Joe Biden Catholics will be supporting the blue

ticket in 3 weeks.

These top-down authoritarians are pompous asses, no matter which religious tradition they represent or pretend to speak for.

The real heart and soul and brains and sweat and dedication to others comes from the charitable arm of the Catholic Church, whose mostly un-famous members never hold press conferences or release orders to the flock, but instead quietly and consistently serve others.

I believe we will win many of these folks' votes.

[Robeson]

24. The Catholic churh has been poking their heads into politics for two thousand years....

...they've made, and unmade kings and queens throughout Western Civilization. They've toppled governments, and have directly fought against them. And many of those kingdoms fought against the Papal States. They've always been involved in politics. I thought that was understood.

[mikekohr]

29. The Papal Bull Of 1492 Gave Rights To Europeans To Conquer And Enslave Native Americans

The "Right of Discovery," as defined by the Supreme Court was based on this Papal Bull and used to codify in law the legal disenfranchisement and dispossession of Native American ownership of their own homeland.

mike kohr

[mikekohr]

30. The Catholic Church Ought To Be Paying Attention To Where their Priests Are Poking Their "Little"

heads. Before they give us advice on how to clean our house they ought to clean their house first.

Our family had a relative abused by a priest. The initial response of the hierarchy of the church was to protect the priest and make a disgusting statement that the priest involved (subsequently convicted and jailed)was seduced by his young victim.

As a former alter boy that considered the Priesthood I can't bring myself to embrace another faith but I can not tolerate the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church's leaders.

[carnie_sf]

25. The pope

was a member of the hitler youth. I've been a catholic all my life and I'm ashamed of what the church has become. Anyone remember liberation theology?

[WinkyDink]

27. Of course. And the Church condemns it.

[olegramps]

38. All the kids were forced into the Hitler Youth movement

[Dems4me]

28. I am a practising Catholic and the voting guideline cards are given

out every presidential election at my church. I am one of probably
three Democrats in my church and I am the ONLY one that has admitted it
openly and unapologeticly.

Many protestant churches in my area give out these same type voting cards too.

I love my faith thats why I'm Catholic but I vote my head and my conscience,
thats why I'm a Democrat. I am as much a Democrat as I am a Catholic and I
hate that somehow the Catholic church wants us to base our vote on about 5 issues.

Non of these issues is a basis to run a Nation on. I don't know why they
have to turn off their intellect when it comes to these things.

I don't vote for a president because he/she agrees with my faith or is likeable.
Don't get me wrong..I want him/her to be of good moral and ethical character. I don't want
a Cheney/Bush/Palin administration. But his/her faith is not a governing factor for me.

[mbee]

31. All churches should stay out of politics because until we

feed, clothe and house and provide healthcare we do not respect life. As I always say - Respect Life Beyond Birth! It seems like the people who say they respect life only respect birth.

[goddess40]

32. Tax'em

I firmly believe that churches should be taxed like any other business. But I'm willing to give them their main church building and a small plot of land tax-free, but the rest needs to be taxed. If they can't keep their nose out of politics then tax it all.

[bunkerbuster1]

33. Then-Cardinal Ratzi got this ball rolling in 2004

I fully expected his church to try to play a role in this election, but I doubt they're bringing out the big guns this late in the game. I had not heard any high-profile churches denying Biden communion, for example (although I'm sure there are some that would).

[Dems4me]

36. They are really not supposed to deny

communion the way they did with Kerry. The priest may talk to someone
about an issue that they wished they would resolve before taking communion,
but I have personally never known one to deny it if the person is a member of the Catholic
faith. But I am sure they're some out there somewhere that might.

[bunkerbuster1]

40. That's my understanding too...

I'm not Catholic, but some in my family are, and I was shocked in 2004 to hear that political stances would preclude any of the faithful from receiving communion in any church.

[Dems4me]

41. It is sad really, stuff like this turns folks away from church & divides everyone even more. n/t

[bridgit]

37. Always, it's what they do best

[olegramps]

39. Bishops who influenced vote against Kerry

It is my opinion that those Catholic Bishops who encouraged their sheep to not vote for Kerry must shoulder the blame for the continued carnage that occurs daily in Iraq. They laity of the Catholic Church have come a long way in following their own conscience on a number of issues.

For example, contraceptive birth control. For years the Catholic Church was able to enforce their will on entire governments in Europe and South America. They were supportive of the law that made contraception illegal in Connecticut and which was being challenged by Griswold of Planned Parenthood. She prevailed and it was declared un-constitutional (Griswold vs. Conn. 381 U.S. 479 (1965). Please take note of the date!

This example only shows just how out of step the hierarchy is in regard to the average Joe six-pack that no longer is "packing" the pews. When polls show that a majority of Catholics supported Bush, just remember that those are the Catholics that have remained totally subservient to the dictates of the hierarchy. This doesn't include the mass exodus of, especially younger people, who have voted with their feet. It even appears that the majority of Catholics who have remained in the Church are coming to their senses and are supporting Obama and are rejecting the one issue vote. Thank God.

[SoxFan]

42. Not this shit again