Just a note to people who think it is clever to be pessimistic: It's not.

[Zynx]

There are a lot of people who think it makes them smart to be chronically cynical, skeptical, and pessimistic. It doesn't. Even those of you who are well-intentioned and believe that scaring people about negative consequences will make them work harder have a fundamental misunderstanding of human psychology. People don't respond best to fear. They respond best to hope. Between the carrot and the stick, people do respond most effectively to the carrot. Giving people the hope to keep fighting is much more effective than giving them the concern that if they don't keep fighting that all is lost.

In a tangible sense, if you are one of the morons who believes that you should yell and scream about how every one to two point move in the polls means you should tell people we are on the verge of losing the election you are not helping. You might think you are, but what you are doing instead is you are demoralizing. This isn't an issue of overconfidence. Democrats are optimistic because they genuinely feel good about the future and what Senator Obama and a Democratic majority can bring to this country. Trying to tell them that they are full of it is not constructive at all. What's more is that you are wrong.

[BlueJazz]

1. As I said in another post: When you've been lied to, kick in the teeth and Raped Twice...

...You are bound to be a little Paranoid.

[Zynx]

2. At least don't express it. You sound like a crazy person if you do.

[BlueJazz]

9. I understand but I still don't blame the people who do post pessimistic stuff.

...It's just how they feel.

I'm pretty happy with the Future but I don't expect the same thoughts from everybody..

[lady raven]

17. I agree.

I am feeling about as positive as I can knowing that the other side has a history of playing dirty and stealing elections. That said, I do feel pretty damned good.

I completely understand the wariness of some to get their hopes up, given the way this country was SPECTACULARLY burned in 2000 and 2004.

[helderheid]

36. And you sound like someone with their head in the sand.

[JI7]

3. but why spread that to others ? and what's that going to do anyways ?

it will just make people like the worst willhappen and they may give up or not work as much as they would otherwise.

[BlueJazz]

12. I agree but....(even unlike myself) ...these times can be hard on people and...

...they express their sadness in unreasonable ways.

maybe they just don't see the future as brightly as we do...?

[rucky]

4. It needed to be said.

[fujiyama]

5. The pessimism is pointless

If one looks at the map, and even conservatively we can say that Obama is projected at this point to win around 260 minimum. He's not playing the same defense Gore and Kerry were in the upper midwest states, which is a HUGE relief. It's very unlikely any of them will switch this time. This time, we're likely starting off with two Bush states in OUR column.

We're really looking to take anyone of the swing states - VA, OH, FL, NC, CO, and NV, not to mention IN, MO, and possible WV. I really think NV will swing our way, and VA seems to be leaning that way too.

Again, I'm being really conservative and not even factoring the big two - OH and FL - either of which end up in our column, and the night is done.

I'm nervous and obsessed as this as anyone, but I have to say I'm also glad to be playing with EV maps, with more swing states on THEIR side than ours - and more than just OH and FL.

[scheming daemons]

6. This OPconcerns me and makes me pessimistic about the election...

;-)

[Beregond2]

7. Hear hear.

There are so many people at this site who can't wait to rain on every parade. Now that we are on the edge of victory, their theme is: we are only going to win because the Republicans don't want to. Or: the election will be stolen. Or: the world is really run by a secret cabal, and nothing we do or don't do matters.

There is nothing so lazy and cheap as cynicism.

[pipi_k]

30. calling cynicism cheap and lazy

I'm sorry, but this has to be said


One man's "cynicism" could be another man's reality.

Just like one man's Faith could be another man's blind Hope.


I could call blind hope and unquestioning optimism "cheap and lazy" as well. On the surface, it certainly looks that way....think about it. How much easier is it to ask no probing questions and just put on the blinders and hope for the best than to sit down and get into pondering some real disturbing thoughts?


As for myself, I've been on an emotional rollercoaster ride the past few months, politically speaking.

One day full of optimism for the future....the next day fearful and pessimistic, then back again, and back the other way yet again.

The ride is neither cheap nor lazy, I can assure you.


I think people need to understand that anyone who expresses fear or concern or pessimism does so because they're dealing with thoughts that ARE fearful. Instead of shaming them, try to understand where they're coming from.

Maybe people who don't want to hear any of that stuff are only afraid it will rub off on them somehow.


:shrug:

[Beregond2]

40. The very fact that you have been on that roller coaster

ride shows that you have NOT given in to cynicism. You are fighting it, looking for reasons NOT to be cynical. And there is nothing lazy about that.

I'm talking about the ones who don't even try, who fall back on cynicism as their default position. I do think that is cheap and lazy, and also irresponsible. It is depression masquerading as thought, and people are right to fear it "rubbing off" on them. It can be contagious, and lead to the kind of hopeless apathy that causes good people to do nothing in the face of growing evil.

[BlooInBloo]

8. No, no, no. The only way to be smart is to see the worst in everything, and whine about it 24/7...

They're REALISTS. The rest of us have our heads in the sand.

[woolldog]

10. Your concern is noted.

[Overseas]

11. Poet Patrick Kavanagh said

The Pessimist is always in danger of fortuitous fallout.

[IsItJustMe]

13. K&R

Oh hell yeah!!! Congratulations, you are one of the few people that gets it. Thank you for stating what I would think should be obvious.

[These Eyes]

14. Thank you for this post…

I'm a newbie here and I come here to share in the excitement over Obama. I am in no way in denial that we still have to keep working for victory. But it seems like anytime someone posts about good polls, trends, whatever, there's always someone to shoot them down. Friday, for me, was a good day. Aside from good personal news, I was happy that Obama seems to be holding in the polls, along with the Troopergate results. So, I left a post asking if anyone else felt like dancing. Of course, someone had to talk about how sad they were that racism was showing up in this election. As though anyone should be surprised!!! There's nothing wrong with finding joy in the little things. If you're one of those people who can't, then please, leave the rest of us alone -- you're depressing me!

[Blondiegrrl]

15. But ... don't you get it?

:crazy:

[democracy1st]

16. K & R

[FrenchieCat]

18. Amen!

thank goodness I hardly pay attentions to poll, beyond how the media will use them to manipulate public opinion.

Besides that, I'm very optimistic for good things to come.

[jpgray]

19. While there are a few like you say, some also use this board for therapy/support

I've never been interested in that usage myself, but I think there's a difference between "I'm scared the election will be stolen" and "Obama is too measured; a McCain comeback narrative will persist in the media as a result." The latter is a confident expression of opinion, whereas the other is just a frightened admission doubtless looking to be talked down.

Of course, provocateurs take both lines on this board, which muddies the waters even more.

[Frank Cannon]

20. K & R

I used to be guilty of what you are describing, and I apologize. I went canvassing for Obama this weekend and I was pleasantly surprised. We still need to work hard and visualize hard, but I think we've got this one.

[BklynChick]

21. pessimism is known to suppress turnout

[CreekDog]

22. I think many who post as you describe know it's not helping

and do it precisely for that reason. :rant:

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Pessimists are pleasantly surprised. nt.

[nichomachus]

24. Realism is not pessimism -- and a dreamy pollyanna attitude isn't optimism n/t

[Zynx]

25. However, what I described wasn't realism and I am not a pollyanna.

[nolabels]

27. Shiva literally means "auspiciousness, welfare"

Shiva
God of Destruction
http://1stholistic.com/Prayer/Hindu/hol_Hindu-Shiva.htm

Understanding the philosophy is not the same as practicing it

[treestar]

26. Good points

:kick:

[Hansel]

28. Amen and thank you Zynx.

And case in point, when was the last election that a Republican won where they were out there telling their supporters they were going to lose. Obama's is a message of hope. So how would advocating despair help him win support?

Pessimism = demoralization just like Zynx says.

[mopinko]

29. "cynicism is a sorry sort of wisdom"

- barack obama

"pessimism leads to nowhere."- me

[pipi_k]

32. And sometimes pessimism leads

to action and change.


For example, if someone is fat and happy and optimistic, what real action is he/she going to take? What real change will there be if nobody is unhappy enough to change the status quo?

Tell me...how happy and optimistic were you the past eight years?


If, by some odd chance of (god forbid) fate had McCain winning this election, how optimistic would you be about the future?

Not very much, I would imagine, and wouldn't that make a point?

It's not so much the pessimism itself a lot of people are afraid of...it's that the pessimism isn't deemed to be "appropriate".

Instead of shaming people who feel pessimistic, why can't people who are just brimming over with optimism help others to feel the same hope?

Too much trouble?


sigh....
:(

[mopinko]

33. i was always optimistic

that democracy would prevail. if mcsame steals the white house, i will be optimistic that he will be sent packing by a howling mob.
if the status quo ever gets to the point where most people have what they need, i am optimistic the the whining deadenders who are always pessimistic, no matter what, will be ignored.

[Hansel]

34. Well, if you're going lose anyway, why bother?

I think this pessimism does lead to action. And typically that is to do exactly the opposite of what you need to do to be successful.

There are plenty of "fat", happy and optimistic people who have lost weight. I would argue it takes these attitudes to do it successfully. And so would the most successful weight loss program there is--Weight Watchers. It is pessimism that stops most overweight people from losing weight.

If you are constantly told that no matter how hard you try to lose weight, it won't succeed, there is no reason to try. And if you are constantly told that you should worry about your candidate losing, where is the incentive and inspiration to get your butt of the couch and go vote? "He's going to lose anyway."

[Zynx]

39. Exactly. If people say "We're going to lose" "The media won't let us win" "The polls

aren't telling the truth", then what's the fucking point. I should just curl up and shoot myself.

[Zynx]

38. I should not have to be an emotional crutch for someone who should seek

psychiatric help due to crushing depression. If McCain won, I would not be pessimistic about the future as a whole. I would be angry and fight with the optimism that if we stood up to him we could still make our future better. Sitting there in constant fear and depression is entirely unproductive.

[stillcool]

31. I like what these guys said..

"The future will not belong to those who sit on the sidelines. The
future will not belong to the cynics. The future belongs to those who
believe in the beauty of their dreams.”---Paul Wellstone


"I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality .... I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word."
-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Zynx]

37. Exactly. Pessimists are like broken clocks. They are right a small percent of the time

but otherwise they are just a sad spectacle.

[renie408]

35. I agree. K&R. n/t

[Forkboy]

41. I don't think it's clever, it's just the way I am.

And to be honest, I can't say that I really care what others think of it. :shrug:

[uppityperson]

42. Being cynical and pessimistic isn't about being clever. Neither is calling posters morons.

Cynical and pessimistic is just how some of us are, has nothing to do with trying to be clever. Thank you for being open to other people being different.

Calling poster morons is also not clever. You may think you are, but what you adoing instead is you are insulting.

[Posteritatis]

43. Ever notice there's no complimentary antonyms to 'cynic' these days?

"Idealist," "pollyanna," even "optimist" (which isn't really an antonym to "cynic" anyway) going by some comments in this thread.. Every one of them these days has this "you've got your head in the sand" connotation that people seem to think the word "cynic" lacks.

Hell, last time I mentioned this on DU I had people telling me - explicitly! - that cynics are the only truly decent human beings on the planet. Where the hell are we supposed to get with that mindset?

[tomreedtoon]

44. Guilty as charged...with an explanation.

I have posted things about Obama being assassinated, about election theft, about the impossibility of any kind of real change. Frankly, I've hoped too often, given away my heart too often. And not just in politics, but in love, friendship and support for others.

But it has begun to dawn on me recently that cynicism is often just a scab the soul uses to protect itself from further injury. There's a lot of cynics on the Left. The biggest and most obvious places for them are in comedy and entertainment, where their views get disseminated.

Ever watch the more cynical shows on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim programs at night? "SuperJail" says that sadism, murder and torture are the only ways to control crime. "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" and "Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law" deride the concepts of heroism and the legal process. "Tom Goes to the Mayor" explicitly pushes a Republican line; government can't do anything to help people, only hurt, because all government is corrupt and stupid.

These shows aren't all that's on Adult Swim - there are good, hopeful ones like "Aaron McGruder's The Boondocks" and "Moral Orel" - but the shows I mentioned are cranked out quickly by Americans, mostly working at Williams Street in Atlanta. Young, hip, irreverent writers and artists - who have given up hope in America, man and just about everything. And their biggest audience is the young crowd going to college, who see their post-college careers as unemployment, futility and failure. I call them "the dorm and bong water crowd."

It takes a lot to be optimistic in the face of all that. It can't be general optimism. It has to be focussed. Like, I don't know what the future will be for me. But I try to believe that Americans as a whole still have some force for good in them, and that our nation will once again thrive financially and morally. It can't be a general happiness, but a select happiness.

[riqster]

45. Depending on how it's phrased

...it can be motivational, rather than demoralizing.

"Great! We're up by two points! Let's add to it!"

or

"Watch out, two points is within the margin of error."

The same message, just phrased differently. In neither case is it meant to depress-it is meant to inspire. Different strokes for different folks.

[Zynx]

46. You know what I am talking about here.

[riqster]

48. That's my point

I have a few maxims: one is, "There's no such thing as 'obvious'". Another is "There's no such a thing as 'One Size Fits All".

What is obvious to person A may be opaque to person B. What motivates Person C may depress Person D.

We need to appreciate people's good intentions, and ignore them if their style doesn't work for us. Some people DON'T get it. Some people DO work best if they're scared. Some of us ARE relaxing with a nine-point lead. Some of us ARE already busting our asses and need no further prodding (I would put both of ourselves in that camp).

Yes, the chicken littles irritate the shit out of me. However, the complacent are far more of a threat to the nation than those who are pushing too hard. The hand-wringing Nervous Nellies will be certain to vote, and to drag other fraidy-cats to the polls with them. The people who are already motivated aren't going to suddenly quit just because we're irked, we know that this is too important for us to allow pique to slow us down.

At least, that's my take.

[Dr Fate]

47. You make a great argument- I still think we need to be on our guard.

I agree with some of your points...