ACORN

[bookman]

I always depend on DU'er for truth.

What's the scoop on ACORN? Is this yet another attempt by repugs to smear Obama or steal an election?

I saw a CNN story and all I could think of was a plant filed obvious bad registrations.

[JuniperLea]

1. Attempt to smear... yes...

The CNN story is cherry picked to make it appear in a bad light.

Google ACORN and read from several sources, the story is clear.

[ellacott]

2. There are some legitimate concerns

They did submit some invalid ballots. It's disappointing but their entire organization has done good things for many communities.

Here's a link with more info:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/09/acorn/index.html

[izzybeans]

8. Every registration drive contains invalid ballots for all kinds of reasons

some people are lying some make clerical errors.

The same with petitions.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. They never did "submit some invalid ballots."

Read the article you link to. Your statement is false, whether you realize it or not.

Contractors or employees hired by ACORN have submitted fake registrations to ACORN in an attempt to get paid by ACORN for work that wasn't performed, ie locating and registering eligible unregistered voters.

Basically, they submitted false work claims to ACORN.

ACORN may want to improve there quality control for PR reasons, but other than that it's of no consequence to anyone in anyway.

[ellacott]

11. Nothing I said was false

They did submit invalid ballots. Yes, they submitted them to ACORN, how does that negate what I said. You guys are too quick in trying to prove people wrong.

ACORN has to accept some responsibility for this, as I said in an earlier post today.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7395694&mesg_id=7396425

[EFerrari]

17. You didn't factcheck the Salon piece which contains a number of inaccuracies.

ACORN people are not paid by the number of signatures they collect, for example.

Please don't spread this stuff any more until you yourself check it out.

[ellacott]

21. Acorn people HAVE paid for signatures

It is not condoned by ACORN but some of the canvassers have indeed paid people for their signatures.

Please don't shoot people down until you know what YOU are talking about.

[EFerrari]

22. Please continue to fact check what you are spreading.

If it is not condoned by ACORN, then ACORN isn't doing it.

[ellacott]

23. In an ideal world

We are not in an ideal world. If we were Obama would probably still be a member of Trinity United Church of Christ.

Whether you like it or not things like this do reflect back on the organization. It's not fair but that's life.

[EFerrari]

25. Excuse me? Your spreading lies about ACORN

has nothing to do with an ideal world. I put a link down thread that might help you with the disinformation you have been fed. Unless you prefer not to be helped.

ETA: In fact, here it is, in case it's too much trouble to read the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4207271

[ellacott]

28. I am not spreading lies

You are not paying attention to what I'm posting. Calm down, my goodness. This message board stuff is so frustrating because frequently misunderstand.


I know about ACORN, I have worked for ACORN, I have nothing against ACORN!!!

You are not paying attention. Nothing I have said is a lie.

You are correct that ACORN doesn't pay per signature but some canvassers do pay to get signatures. It is not sanctioned by ACORN but they do it. I also know that ACORN goes through all applications and flags those that are questionable. I also know that by law that they can't destroy these ballots. It's these questionable applications that are in question.


I wish you would stop overreacting.

[EFerrari]

29. I'm not overreacting in the least. You posted:

"There are some legitimate concerns

They did submit some invalid ballots. It's disappointing but their entire organization has done good things for many communities."

There are no legitimate concerns about ACORN except that they are being attacked by the right wing.

[ellacott]

30. I stand by what I said

What I said is not wrong. Invalid ballots were submitted. Maybe I should have applications instead of ballots. If that is the root of the confusion then I will apologize and accept responsibility for the confusion.

ACORN is not a perfect organization. No organization is. They are a good organization but there are legitimate issues that need to be improved.

[EFerrari]

32. Again, by law, ACORN must submit all signed forms.

If there are legitimate issues, they are with the process, not with ACORN.

[ellacott]

35. What do you mean "again"

I understand that and I stated that.

[EFerrari]

37. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. It seems as though

you are somehow holding ACORN responsible for the bad forms. Fraudulently filled out forms should be a concern but they aren't ACORN's responsibility after they've done everything in their power to eliminate fraud.

[ellacott]

40. I'm not accusing ACORN responsible for the forms

But there has to be tighter controls over how the canvassers operate. Canvassers do pay people to fill out the forms and many times they take the rest of the day off. I know this because I've seen it. At the end of the day there would be huge stacks of questionable ballots. These are the ballots(applications) that is getting all the bad publicity. ACORN is doing their job correctly by putting those ballots to the side.

I saw these things with my own eyes. I stopped doing voter registration with ACORN and worked with my local Obama office and the NAACP. We didn't have the huge stacks of invalid applications.

ACORN is a wonderful organization but there are issues with some of the canvassers.

[stillcool]

27. Can you back up your accusation?

The GOP went after ACORN in 2006, and ACORN was vindicated, and those actions are part of the Attorney Firing Scandal. You shouldn't accuse people like that.

[ellacott]

31. Dang , this is pretty frustrating

The canvassers have indeed paid for signatures. Acorn does pay for the signatures but people who have gone out in the streets have paid people.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

They were vindicated because they didn't sanction paying for signatures. They will be vindicated this time also.

[stillcool]

33. ACORN pays their staff..

for their work, an hourly wage. You have a problem with that?

[ellacott]

34. You still don't get it

Why would I have a problem with that?

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

[stillcool]

38. We sure do..

what is it you are accusing ACORN of? Submitting fraudulent registrations, which they are required by law to do? Do you know how many fraudulent registrations are submitted every election? Where is the "Voter Fraud"? How do you think these registrations equate to votes? False names, false addresses, how do they get a ballot?

[ellacott]

42. "We"? That's funny

I never accused ACORN of voter fraud. But because you like to jump to conclusions you got yourself all worked up.

Do your thing, I can't say anything else on this subject, especially to you.

[stillcool]

43. Isn't it? That's what you said..

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Seems like it's something else, eh?

[ellacott]

44. See post 40

You are impossible.

[HooptieWagon]

45. Employees hired by ACORN were paid by the hour

according to a statement made by ACORN. There was no economic incentive to falsify registrations. There is a possibility of GOP operatives, working within ACORN, to file false registrations in order to discredit ACORN... but I think that scenerio is pretty remote, and would be difficult to coordinate.

The most likely scenerio:

The law requires ALL voter registrations to be turned in by ACORN, even suspicious ones. ACORN flagged registrations the appeared suspicious before submitting them. When the suspicious registrations were later invalidated, the GOP used that as "proof" ACORN was committing voter fraud.

[EFerrari]

16. That's a distortion. They are REQUIRED by law to submit ALL reg forms

even the ones that they feel might be a problem. They try to flag those for the registrars. See my link down thread.

There is no evidence whatsoever that ACORN is trying to commit ANY kind of fraud.

This is Republican bullshit.

[gateley]

3. All I know is that when I heard ACORN had registered the names of the

Dallas Cowboys, it just screamed Rove in my head. That's my take on it unless I hear/learn differently -- an effort to discredit legitimate registrations and steal the election again.

[John Q. Citizen]

4. It's an attempt to justify massive systematic vote caging by the Repos in response to the

fake 'emergency' of so called 'voter fraud.'

The Repos are attempting to manufacture the 'problem' so they can institute a solution that benefits them electorally and drives down the number of people voting.

[jdlh8894]

6. What is " Vote Caging "?

Pardon my not knowing.

[EFerrari]

18. Vote caging is when you go into a venue -- like a precinct

and attempt to disqualify legit voters.

For example, Republicans have gone to precincts where there are a lot of deployed military or students and sent them a piece of registered mail during times when they're pretty sure the recipient won't be there (deployed, summer vacation and so on). If the mail come back, they go to that precinct and challenge that vote. They are often successful and they scare people away from the polls.

[John Q. Citizen]

24. Here:

A recent example (among many)would be when the Repos put a bunch of legitimate voters on the felony 'no vote' list in Florida during the 2000 elections and insured 50,000 Gore votes would never be cast.


Found this by googling "vote caging"

Vote caging
From SourceWatch

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Vote_caging

Vote caging is a voter suppression tactic. The term is derived from a direct mail term. In the direct mail industry, when a third party runs a direct mailing campaign on behalf of a client organization, one of the activities undertaken is to compile all of the responses, handle contributions and to deposit received funds into the client's account, and also update the database of names and addresses that were mailed to with the responses or corrected addresses obtained. Since some of the activities were controlled carefully (donations and deposits) and conducted in a manner similar to the activities within a "teller's cage," the process is called "caging" and the end result of the data entry updates and address corrections is called a "caging list." This led to the term "voter caging" for voter registration analysis and challenges conducted via mass mailings.

Caging, as Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) "helpfully pointed out, 'is a term of art in mailhouses' – it refers to the place where letters go when they have no address, all batched up in a separate room."<1>

As House Committee on the Judiciary chair John Conyers (D-MI) added, caging "in the context of elections 'is not an issue of the mail at all.' Voter caging, in the context of elections, means blocking voters out – choosing whole lists of voters whose vote will be challenged, chosen by whom and the criteria for challenge enunciated by whom, under this administration, still not fully explained."<2>

[mdmc]

5. I read a recent neo-con email

that blames ACORN for the housing mess.

They advocate for affordable housing.

[BuyingThyme]

7. The motive for submitting fake registrations is unclear.

But it probably has nothing to do with casting votes for anybody.

They need to find out who did this and throw them in jail forever.

[EFerrari]

20. ACORN is required by law to turn in all forms that have been filled out.

The most they can do is try to flag them as a possible problem or they're breaking the law.

[BuyingThyme]

41. Yep.

[The Magistrate]

9. At This Point, Sir, It seems A Co-ordinated Effort By Local Republican Officials To Raise A Stink

Probably some of the sheets turned in by the paid circulators are padded and contain false names.

Sheets often, even when compiled scrupulously, contain errors.

Some of the claims sheets are 'fraudulent' are themselves based on illegality, because they stem from matching against Social Security data, which is not supposed to be employed for this purpose.

Current regulations require all sheets collected to be turned in, after scandals in '04 when some bogus Republican-sponsored groups did not turn in sheets collected in Democratic areas. Prior to this, ACORN weeded through and eliminated the 'Donald Duck' style entries, and other obvious mis-statements. Now they cannot do this. So a good portion of the instances giving rise to these charges are the result of a poorly thought through regulation, that persons of ill will are rushing to exploit.

These charges are stemming mostly from places where Republican political machines have control over the process, whether at the state or county level. Near to my home, the mention of 'Lake County, Indiana' as place where ACORN was 'engaged in fraud' brought tears of laughter, as that is an extraordinarily corrupt jurisdiction, that makes Cook County look like Minnesota by compare.

It is worth pointing out that the numbers appearing so far, hyped though they are, are not large enough to strike me as consequential. ACORN does not account for anything like all new registrations of Democratic voters, and even if all this is sustained (which would itself be an exercise in fraud by local authorities), our registration will be greatly increased, as will our turn-out.

ACORN is a very effective community organization, with a long record of success in housing and voting issues. It has been a target of Republican hate and disparagement for some time, precisely because it is effective, and good at what it does. This assault on ACORN has two purposes. First, to try and hamper the organization's broader work, and second, to lay an alibi in place for the looming Republican defeat, that will keep the Republican 'base' frothing with rage, and the sense of being cheated that is so essential to their emotional make-up. The Republicans are worried stiff that without governing power at the national level, their unwieldy coalition of working class religious bigots and wealthy free-marketeers will fall apart.

[jdlh8894]

12. Why does it matter, sir

The popular vote (according to the Constitution ) does not make a difference in a Presidential Election.

[The Magistrate]

13. Perhaps You Could Clarify Your Point, Sir....

[EFerrari]

14. Use this link to a GD thread. It's a good one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4207271

[ellacott]

15. They are supposed to have a news conference this afternoon

I don't know if will be broadcast.

[TheKentuckian]

19. The flack is coverfire for Republican disenfranchisement practices.

and a lameass talking point to prop up their failed economic policies as well.

[JuniperLea]

26. This is a very good summation of the situation...

Concise, correct, and comprehensive.

[chowder66]

36. Rhandi Rhodes is talking about it...

live on ktlk.com

[underpants]

39. Here is a brief on ACORN

Notice the language that is used in the reports "allegations" "investigations" etc. ACORN has NEVER been charged with anything. It is all smoke and mirrors. Think about the risk and the minute effect of one person trying to fake votes in say 5 different precincts-jail time to create 5 votes??? None of it makes sense. ACORN is clean.

http://www.acorn.org/
ACORN is the nation’s largest grassroots community organization of low- and moderate-income people with over 400,000 member families organized into more than 1,200 neighborhood chapters in 110 cities across the country. Since 1970, ACORN has been building community organizations that are committed to social and economic justice, and won victories on thousands of issues of concern to our members, through direct action, negotiation, legislative advocacy and voter participation. ACORN helps those who have historically been locked out become powerful players in our democratic system.

ACORN has long been the target of the Republicans, mainly to suppress voting

There were two cases in 2004 one reported BY ACORN and the other ACORN turned over all their records to assist in the investigation

David Iglesias and one other of the 8 US Attorneys fired were fired for NOT indicting ACORN
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4205876&mesg_id=4205876

I can't recap this any better than this:


http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/acorn_rallies_its_troops.php

Fact: ACORN has implemented the most sophisticated quality-control system in the voter engagement field, but in almost every state we are required to turn in ALL completed applications, even the ones we know to be problematic.

Fact: ACORN flags incomplete, problem, or suspicious cards when we turn them in, but these warnings are often ignored by election officials. Often these same officials then come back weeks or months later and accuse us of deliberately turning in phony cards.

Fact: Our canvassers are paid by the hour, not by the card, so there is NO incentive for them to falsify cards. ACORN has a zero-tolerance policy for deliberately falsifying registrations, and in the relatively rare cases where our internal quality controls have identified this happening we have fired the workers involved and turned them in to election officials and law-enforcement.

Fact: No charges have ever been brought against ACORN itself. Convictions against individual former ACORN workers have been accomplished with our full cooperation, using the evidence obtained through our quality control and verification processes.

Fact: Voter fraud by individuals is extremely rare, and incredibly difficult. There has never been a single proven case of anyone, anywhere, casting an illegal vote as a result of a phony voter registration. Even if someone wanted to influence the election this way, it would not work.

Fact: Most election officials have recognized ACORN's good work and praised our quality control systems. Even in the cities where election officials have complained about ACORN, the applications in question represent less than 1% of the thousands and thousands of registrations ACORN has collected.

Fact: Our accusers not only fail to provide any evidence, they fail to suggest a motive: there is virtually no chance anyone would be able to vote fraudulently, so there is no reason to deliberately submit phony registrations. ACORN is committed to ensuring that the greatest possible numbers of people are registered and allowed to vote, so there is also NO incentive to "disrupt the system" with phony cards.

Fact: Similar accusations were made, and attacks launched, against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. These attacks were not only groundless, they have since been exposed as part of the U.S. Attorneygate scandal and revealed to be part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.

These are the facts, and the truth is that a relatively small group of political operatives are trying to orchestrate hysteria about "voter fraud" and manufacture public outrage that they can use to further suppress the votes of millions of low-income and minority Americans