I personally don't like the latest email from Barack re: Keating 5

[nomorewhopper]

I just got an email from Barack which linked me to this page

http://www.keatingeconomics.com/

figured i'd share. looks like obama is going on the offensive with regards to keating. personally, i think its slimy politics and i don't like barack stooping to mccain's level. i don't think that this type of play will work this election cycle. i think at this point we can all prepare to be bombarded with ayres/keating style politics. trash at its worst.

i, for one, think that obama should continue to hammer mccain on the issues. we do well when we slam them on the issues and stop focusing on the junk.

what do you guys think about this? i hope it doesn't backfire, and i hope it lands a knockout blow against mccain

[nomorewhopper]

1. i should add that the obama camp is producing a 13 minute documentary on keating 5

which is the subject of his recent email.

[breadandwine]

51. Hey. We can't attack McCain. It might hurt his feelings.

...

[snake in the grass]

62. Fuck that!

Seriously. Obama must destroy McCain and the Republicant Party. They have gotten away with way too much for way too long because nobody called them on it. 2008 will be a last-man-standing election year and I hope Obama sends them back under their slimy rocks. We can't afford to play nice as this is a fucking fight and not patty-cakes. If it's the truth and it hurts McCain, use it. Do you think McCain is going to be considerate?

[AZSlacker]

64. Not by the hair of your concerny-cern-cern

[Blue_Roses]

83. Good. The American people deserve to hear the facts about McCain!

:applause:

[Clio the Leo]

2. I think Palin has accused Barack of Felony Treason twice in 36 hours....

..... unleash the frickin' dogs of war!!!!!

(putting on my protective head gear and eye covering)

[Juche]

32. Fuck yes

Just because we are progressives and tend to see both sides of a story doesn't mean we have to be soft. The GOP is perfectly willing to dismantle our democracy. They have put Siegelman in jail, rigged elections, defied subpoenas, subvert the constitution and bill of rights, dismantled the DoJ and turned it into a force of political prosecutions, covered up 9/11, etc.

It is time to tear them down and throw them in prison. Sadly I doubt Obama has the balls to do it, but it needs to be done.


If I were Obama I would be getting subsidiaries and people not directly connected to him but still on the dem side (Olbermann, Hartmann, Begala, etc) to start talking about McCain's 'patriotism' by picking a woman who is dangerously unqualified to be his VP in a desperate effort to win over Hillary voters. What does that say about McCain's judgement and patriotism or how seriously he takes the responsibilities of president? There is a huge pipe to hit him over the head with that isn't being used. McCain picked a grossly unqualified, unprofessional cocktease as his VP to win over some disaffected hillary voters (which backfired anyway). What does that say about him that he wants Palin in charge of the military and economy or in charge of meeting Putin and Ahmadinejad if he gets melanoma again?

[breadandwine]

55. Stop picking on Sarah Palin!!!

It's bad enough that her poor daughter Bristol has to breast feed her brother!!!

[endthewar]

43. But why can't Obama be more like John Kerry circa 2004?

:sarcasm:

[Hieronymus]

47. Hell, yes. It's time a Democrat fought back.

[breadandwine]

52. Hey. We can't attack McCain. What if he decided to go negative?????

If we're nice to him, he'll turn over a new leaf.

[Clio the Leo]

81. Ok, now make that THREE times in 48 hours!!! NT

[fearnobush]

3. Go ask John Kerry and Mike Dukakas.

They will tell you all about going the high road while being smeared.

[No Passaran]

14. Exactly

Plus this video is related to economy today.

[breadandwine]

53. Aw shucks. We can't talk about the economy and Keating 5.

We have to talk about lipstick.

[villager]

16. Yeah. Damn good thing each of them kept their powder dry.

n/t

[Democat]

30. Obama has probably talked to Kerry about it!

You can bet what Kerry must have told him about being nice and playing defense only.

[billyoc]

4. McCain and his dice shooting cronies caused this economic collapse, it's a relevant criticism.

[Ramius]

5. Legitimate part of McCain's history. Not innuendo like Ayers.

There are a lot of young people out there that aren't aware of what happened.

McCain at BEST showed VERY poor judgment. And that IS a HUGE part of the issue here.

McCain is erratic and irresponsible. Always was. Then and now. The story should be told.

[breadandwine]

58. Hey. You wouldn't by any chance be referring to McCain's anger management problem?

We can't go there. He's a former POW. Did I neglect to mention that he's a former POW?

John McCain, a former POW, who was incarcerated by the North Vietnamese, was a prisoner of war.

So nobody talk about his erratic behavior, temper, rage, berserk mentality toward journalists who ask nosy questions.

None o' their business.

[Bluebear]

6. Is there anything not truthful at that link? What is considered "junk"?

[Cosmic Charlie]

7. at least the Keating Scandal is relevant to our current Economic Crisis

none of McCain's attacks have any relevance

[FrenchieCat]

8. These are not lies....this is recent history, our economics and McCain's lack of judgement!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwc5YSAc-7g&feature=related

[DJ13]

9. Its time Democrats grow a pair or admit they will remain the permanent

.....minority party.

When the other side is throwing mud responding with a pillow isnt very effective.

[Ioo]

10. I am so glad that Obama is fighting back, the fact is McShame has some BAD People in his closet..

And the people need to know...

The dif between what Obama is doing and McCain is that Obama is speaking the truth, and McCain is making shit up.

[breadandwine]

59. Aw shucks. McCain isn't lying. It's like the distance between the Twin Cities.

Which is 25,000 miles.

If you go the long way.

[anonymous171]

11. It won't backfire because it's a counter-attack.

I don't know why, but Obama's counter-attacks don't seem to backfire. In fact the counters help drive the media narrative against McCain. "Obama the good guy responds to McCain evil dishonest accusations."

[FreeState]

12. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire or you get burned n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

13. I might agree if it weren't for its relevance right now with the Bailout.

The two situations are very similar, in both cases the banks were allowed to make risky investments and then had to get bailed out. In the Keating scandal McCain pressured regulators to go easy on the owner of an S&L and let him continue what he was doing. McCain clearly hasn't learned his lesson and this is very relevant and smart to bring up right now.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. I like it, myself. Puts the focus on the legislation.

Allegations of influence peddling can be refuted.

McCain's support for the legislation cannot be refuted.

[breadandwine]

60. Sure it can. With one of Palin's winks.....

....

[meowomon]

17. It is not slimy politics if it is the truth!

They have done nothing but lie and distort anything that Barack Obama has said or done. It is time that the gloves come off when we have the truth on our side. The truth will set us free!

[kingpin8399]

18. i would agree if obama threw the 1st punch, but this is a counter! I rather WIN than repeat 04!

[breadandwine]

61. Oh, didn't you know? Obama threw the first punch. By making that dastardly mention of the word

lipstick!

[TexasObserver]

19. You must know not understand about the Keating Five.

They say "William Ayers," we say "Keating Five."

One is relevant, and that's Keating Five.

It's a good topic and we should push it.

[TTUBatfan2008]

20. Keating 5 led to an economic crisis, no?

A huge bailout paid for by taxpayers due to de-regulation in Congress from McCain's ilk along with corruption. The parallel between the latest crisis and the Keating 5 is striking.

[XOKCowboy]

21. Stoop for the country's sake!

Even if McCain wasn't as complicit as DeConcini he still tried to influence federal regulators for a major campaign contributor.

If all they have is Ayers then Keating5 is on the table and relevant.

[wellst0nev0ter]

22. This IS An Issue

McCain personally intervened to make sure Keatings wasn't investigated before the S&L scandals, and all McCain got was a slap on the wrist and favorable treatment from the media after his supposed Road to Damascus moment.

The question shouldn't be "is this slimy politics" and should have been "what took them so long?"

[dkf]

23. Why in the world do you think its slimy?

John McCain was directly involved in this incident...its not like he met and befriended Keating 20 years after it was over.

And he didn't learn anything about the root of the problem, which was lack of proper oversight and too much speculation, and instead decided to champion campaign finance reform.

[Raine1967]

24. Ayers/keating style politics???

One is in the record books, the other is made up...

And Keating is ALL about the issues OF TODAY.. HAve you seen what is happening to our economy today? This is ALL about the issues. This goes directly to John McCain economics.

Before you get concerned, please understand what the Keating 5 was compared to Ayers... Apples and peanuts.

[Undercurrent]

25. Don't you think the people deserve the truth?

McCrud's involvement to the Keating 5 is connected to the financial mess we are in now. The people have a right to know.


::redundant links removed::

[Union Thug]

26. It's not slimy; it's the truth. And it is timely and relevant considering

the economic disaster that has befallen this country.

[Trajan]

27. Keating 5 is a FACT ...

There is nothing slimy or underhanded about it ....

[tpi10d]

28. We have to

We can't take newscycle after newscycle of the Rs smears. It puts Obama on the defensive, takes him off message and probably would be good for a 5 point drop in the polls as it drags on.

What this does is level the playing field or tilt it in our direction. They shoot a smear, Obama quickly answers and shoots back w/ Keating or other McCain corruption issue. At that point there is at least equality being on the defensive and best for McCain would be a draw. And a draw isn't good enough for him.

At best for us the economic issues/cronyism/corruption charges against McCain would garner more traction than what they throw out re: ayres etc.

[99th_Monkey]

29. Maybe you should ask Senator Kerry how "playing nice & sticking to issues" worked for him. ~nt~

[nsd]

31. Keating 5 is an economic scandal that bears a strong resemblance to our current crisis.

John McCain's role in the Keating scandal and bailout demonstrates that he can't be trusted to regulate Wall Street. He's one of the people responsible for the crisis.

This is nothing like Ayers. That's just innuendo and bullshit. Keating 5 is real.

[backscatter712]

33. Your concern is noted...

[democracy1st]

34. man ur to darn soft....

[barack the house]

35. There is a difference when Barack levels an attack it tends to be on policy than trivia and those >

are relevant points to my mind. It's all about judgment and the same jujdgement that got the economy where it is.

[Flash Bazbo]

36. Why do people ignore McCain's great freindship with domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy?

The man tried to subvert the Presidential election process, for the love of God. Not to mention wanting to kidnap citizens for transport across international borders.

[EC]

37. How is it slimy?

It's true and it's relevant to the economic mess now...

[madfloridian]

38. I love the idea. It is needed.

.

[Webster Green]

39. Not slimy..

The Keating Five was slimy. :shrug:

[b2b55]

40. I don't like this from either side.

However I understand it. McCain's camp fired the first shots, but now the shots are being returned.

I think this could have been avoided in this campaign had both sides kept their pledge not to do it. Once desperation set in the unfortunate happens.

[FVZA_Colonel]

41. This is an issue.

It raises the issue of John McCain's judgement, and ties it into the current economic crisis. It has a hell of a lot more substance then the latest Ayers crap, whatever problems it might have.

[Tatiana]

42. These are only facts. Facts are not slimy. McCain fired first and we are firing back.

I hope this knocks him on his ass, but good!

[Life Long Dem]

44. Then go back to slapping Palin around.

[endthewar]

45. Please go into hibernation this month. The rest of us have an election to win.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. It's not dirty politics when you're telling the truth, as Adlai Stevenson once said...

"When the Republicans stop lying about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them."

Oh yea and...

[LittleBlue]

48. YOu want to take it up the ass again?

Were you here 4 years ago with the Swiftboat shit?

Do you want to go through that again, where we become the Rethug punching bag with no retaliation? Fuck that!

[tsuki]

49. Perhaps, he should focus on the lives ruined in the Keating 5

scandal. There were many people absolutely wiped out. There stories, never having been told, should see the light of day.

[jbnow]

50. It is a shock from Obama campaign, not the sort of thing

he has done before even with great provocation. Guess he does have some things he'll do in the general that was a line he wouldn't cross in the primary against someone in his own party.

I doubt that Obama will bring it up unless he needs to but he will be asked questions about it and answer those.
He has been sending warnings. I've heard him quoting a former Illinois president at some rallies over the last couple of weeks while talking about some falsehoods told about him by McCain
"If you don't stop lying about my reputation, I'm going to start telling the truth about yours."
He said it with humor...but intensity.

They didn't stop lying and were promising a smear campaign...so here is the truth.

The timing might be about the debate too. All the TV media have been talking about Palin's terrorists accusations. Almost all of the shows fact checked it ...reported there was no story, the implication was not true.
Escept the man hosting the debate. When he brought it up on MTP he made it sound ominous saying something like "No one really knows how close the relationship was" and saying Ayers is now an education reformer. Reforming education might be his goal but why wouldn't he call him a Professor of Education? The panel all made it sound like an attempted smear and they were from both parties. He brought it up again later, no one but him made it sound big.
But Tom is the one doing the debate. In his mind the excuse will be that it is in the news (because of Palin). Well now this Keaton 5 will be in the news too. I know it's a town hall but he says he also asks some questions... Now he should bring up both "scandals" or neither.

But Obama will keep talking about the issues

[Raine]

54. Ask President Dukasis & President Kerry

OPS...that's right they didn't fight back and we ended up with two Bush presidents! x(

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadBadger]

57. Way out of line.

[Essene]

63. i dont like it either. i dont think independents like this nonsense (this year)

[Enrique]

65. if Obama thinks it's necessary, I'm ok with it

he's run a classy campaign even in the face of McCain's garbage. I say, do what you gotta do.

[Essene]

67. Here is the real tactic: IT POINTS BACK TO THE ECONOMY TOPIC

They are using Keating to both toss mud back but more importantly... to push the economy back into the headlines.

[Kahuna]

66. Is that so? Kerry already tried that. How'd that work out? nt

[obiden]

68. No you're wroong, gotta hit hard the BUSHO SWIFTBOATERS

this is what kerry didn't do..

[Vinca]

69. No, no, no, no, no. Democratic victimhood is over.

McCain and his sleazy band of lobbyists need to know if they sling crap, they'll get a mountain of FACTUAL crap in return. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the truth and the truth is McBush was shoulder deep in the S&L scandal and was lucky he wasn't indicted.

[ecstatic]

70. I don't think Keating will resonate as much as:

1) Shutting down McCain completely regarding his constant lies about Obama's tax plan. I don't think enough has been done to shut them up about that

2) Bring up Palin's shady ties to AIP and big oil. We've already had oil men in the white house. Will Palin be looking out for the USA or Alaska?

[TooRaLoo]

71. o hai. This IS THE issue! Economy, economy, economy. Voters need to know about it. nt

[ShortnFiery]

72. Thanks for your concern.

:eyes:

[jefferson_dem]

77. Why is it always the "profile-less"?

:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

85. I will put 'it' on ignore by the end of the day, no profile, no mas.

You KNOW something is up.

[rpannier]

73. Politics is dirty and ugly

Bill Clinton practiced them and he won

Kerry and Dukakis didn't and neither of them were inagurated President.

Regardless of what the polls tell you, Americans are NOT turned off by negative ads.

[WinkyDink]

74. Are you a new species of invertebrate?

[No Elephants]

75. Obama is NOT stooping to McCain's level. McCain is trying to hold Obama responsible for the actions

of Ayers, taken when Obama was a child. Obama is holding McCain responsible for actions taken by an adult John McCain. That is a huge difference. And the Keating 5 mess ties in with today's economic headlines perfectly.

Besides, McCain started it, nyah, nyah, nnn nyah nyah.

[bunkerbuster1]

86. "I give 'em the truth, and they THINK it's hell!"

It was good enough for Harrry, it's good enough for Barack.

[livedemocarticordie]

76. I love it..

and I think it's great that Democrats have finally learned if you're going to be attacked you need to respond. All that namby bamby, ohhhhhhh I'm so scared, hadwringing crap needed to end. As far as I am concerned the ad is not really for us, its for Rove to know what he's up against and its not effete. It's to let all their sleazy clowns know that hey yif they want to bring on guns, bring 'em on. And frankly since we are in an economic crisis, that whole S & L debacle is fair game. If they want to talk about Ayers lets talk about Keating. Barack was 6 ; McCain was 58--what's his excuse. Loooooooser.

Tuesday night will be ugly, but a long as Barack stays cool and on topic which is this shitty economy, he should continue to ride it all out......

[IsItJustMe]

78. Sorry dude, Kerry and Dukacus have already done the non responsive thing. You see were that got

them. Thing about it is, Obama's charges are based in truth and facts, hard things to argue with.

McCains charges are based on lies.

To bad you don't know the difference.

[Imagevision]

79. Wait until you see Obama camps entire 13 min. video clip of McCain's Keating 5 magic moment

Something all Americans are entitled to see before they vote!

[Atman]

80. Yeah, keep your powder dry

instead of using it for that which it is intended...

:eyes:

This is a good weapon for us. McCain is up to his turkey-neck in economic scandal throughout recent American history, and it's fair game considering where we're at today.

.

[FloridaGrl]

82. He can't please everyone sorry...

It's damn if you do damn if you don't. I am happy he's going there especially in this economic crisis. I am happy he's not just sitting back and taking a licking from these lying scums.

[DainBramaged]

84. (sigh) I guess you didn't like the plastic keys idea either?

Oh, BY THE WAY, this IS an issue, in case you didn't notice. Always remember,

Republican spells R-E-T-A-R-D

OH, and I notice you haven't responded to any replies? Just another hit and run DU thread, hmmmmmmmmmmm????

[RoadRage]

87. I'm glad he's responding.. he WILL NOT get swiftboated..

The fact that he replies, shows that he takes the false allegation seriously.

Nope, i'm sure this is the correct response. It shows McCain that if he throws a punch, he should expect one back.. if Obama doesn't do this - he's inviting McCain to throw more mud, etc.

The irony is that McCain was actually knee deep in the Keating 5 scandal.. and Obama has meet Ayers about 5 times. ever.

Everytime McCain throws shit.. he seems to get covered in more of it then he initially threw... it's a lesson you'd think he'd learn by now.