Scranton Bishop To Demand Catholics Vote McCain/Palin

[Joanne98]

by huntsu
Sat Oct 04, 2008 at 02:37:40 PM PDT
The American Catholic Church has a long history of liberal activism, including progressive leaders like Dorothy Day and John Ryan. They often led the way in fighting corporate power, opposing wars, overturning legalized bigotry, addressing poverty and more.

More recently conservative Catholic voices have tried to drown out that historic liberalism, pushing parishioners who would normally vote for Democrats into the arms of Republicans. Sometimes they have reached a little too far, and questions about Catholic leaders including bishops crossing the line that separates the church and the state.

But next week Bishop Joseph Martino of the Scranton Diocese is ordering every priest holding services tomorrow to tell their faithful to vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin.

huntsu's diary :: ::
In Scranton, Pa., every Catholic attending Mass this weekend will hear a special homily about next month’s election: Bishop Joseph Martino has ordered every priest in the diocese to read a letter warning that voting for a supporter of abortion rights amounts to endorsing "homicide."

"Being 'right' on taxes, education, health care, immigration and the economy fails to make up for the error of disregarding the value of a human life," the bishop wrote. "It is a tragic irony that 'pro-choice' candidates have come to support homicide — the gravest injustice a society can tolerate — in the name of 'social justice.'"

Anyone reading that knows this is not a religious statement, but an order from a religious leader who holds sway over many voters to pick a particular candidate.

This kind of blatant electioneering from the pulpit is in direct violation of IRS rules that provide the church's tax-free status.

The IRS went after a liberal church in Pasadena who back in 2004 had a sermon guessing what Jesus would do in a debate between John Kerry and George Bush. Nowhere did the minister say anything about who to vote for, but spoke to his view of Jesus and how it related to the Iraq War.

But Bishop Martino is going much farther than the Pasadena church did, specifically demanding a particular vote in return for proper membership in the church. It's way beyond the pale.

Anyone want to give odds this will be ignored by the IRS?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/4/173740/514/742/608443

[rzemanfl]

1. He should go back to buggering altar boys, the fucker. n/t

[snake in the grass]

11. No, he shouldn't.

He doesn't need to destroy more people's lives. He does, however, need to go to prison for the boys he has already buggered. There he can be someone's bitch and experience first-hand what he has done to others. A just punishment.

[rzemanfl]

36. I didn't mean that literally. n/t

[snake in the grass]

37. I know you didn't.

It's just the hypocrisy of the RCC that really lights my fuse. The audacity of these pedophiles and their enablers to involve themselves with the political process of this country makes them deserving of a trial by fire.

[1corona4u]

2. Time for him to pay taxes too then. Fucker.

I swear, this is really becomming a hot button issue I intend to pursue, long after the election is over. I am keeping all of these articles and will send them all off to the IRS, along with a demand that they not get away with this.

[Tanuki]

3. Why wait? We can contact the Scranton IRS office here:

409 Lackawanna Ave # 600
Scranton, PA 18503
[phone]

[1corona4u]

6. Cool, thanks I will.

:-)

[jzelouise]

30. irs info on tax exempt orgs/churches

Might also check out these.
http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch52s07.html for the overview
more info at http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=181565,00.html or
http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/article/0,,id=179674,00.html

[seabeyond]

4. no... they dont do this. just a lie. there was a thread where a woman said a child was taught

this and people jumped on the thread insistenting she was lying. it didnt matter how many of us said we had personally experienced this where we live, the handful of attack dogs demanded we were all liars.

i am a catholic.... they dont do this they said

i live in fundie place, not done

you lie

well, i wish i could remember the names of these people to direct them to this thread. happened in 2004. happening now. better to know and be informed rather than ignorant

[RagAss]

5. Tax time for the Motherfucker with the pointy hat........!!!!

[crossroads]

7. K&R nt

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. Won't matter. Chill.

When you control for other factors -- income, age, education, neighborhood -- Catholic voters are statistically indistinguishable from non-Catholic voters.

The bishops had some clout thirty years ago -- now, not so much.

[Retrograde]

9. If you're personally opposed to abortion

then DON"T HAVE ONE! Don't take away others' rights and options.

IMHO the RC Church took a serious wrong turn when they decided to ban contraception: if they had been more open about that there wouldn't be as much demand for abortion.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. This is the Church's attempt to regain control of its flock

And as a Catholic, I believe it is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

The argument in the Church is that the reason membership is declining is because the Church is too liberal. Ergo, they are trying to revert back to 1950s Catholicism. Case in point: When I was 12-14, I served as an altar server in my parish. Most of the altar servers were females and there was no problem. So imagine my surprise when a few years ago our parish was told by our bishop that we had "too many" female altar servers. My mom and I were furious. In the end, however, nothing changed. The parishioners did not demand the females to step down, and as far as I know, most altar servers are still female.

So, I guess my point is this: What bishops say no longer necessarily dictates what individual parishes do and certainly not what individual parishioners do. For myself, and many others, belonging to the Church is about belonging to the community, volunteer work, and charity. For my family, it is partially a cultural thing. We are Latinos. It is part of our heritage. Personally, I would think that few people would be greatly swayed by what their bishops say.


Having said that, I believe this bishop's behavior is completely out of line for a tax exempt entity.

[olegramps]

50. How am I to interpret this that girls are safe and boys not?

Am I to suppose that all of these Catholic priests are only attracted to boys? I am not Catholic, however, I am married to a Catholic and signed a paper stating that I would have the children raised Catholic. I didn't know just how screwed up these people were until I read some articles concerning their fascination and condemnation of masturbation by children and adolescents. I thought, man, is this what they are concerned with? I approached the pastor concerning this and expressed what the vast majority of health care professional have stated that this teaching could result in a number of undesirable affects of normal development. He sputter around and stammered. Their opposition to contraception is just as ridiculous. I wonder just how so many Catholics can continue to belong to a Church in which they reject several of the church's dogmas such as contraception, women ordination, married men ordination, and many who endorse pro-choice.

[LibraLiz1973]

12. What's funny about this is that every time the Catholic church does this

they lose parishioners.

[rug]

13. The Kos headline is misleading as usual.

Here's the text.

http://www.dioceseofscranton.org/Bishop's%20Pastoral%20Letters/RespectLifeSundaySeptember30th2008.asp

It's on the "Bishop Martino's Pastoral Letter for Respect for Life Sunday" link.

[JPZenger]

16. Updated link and quote

Here's an updated link to the letter:

http://www.dioceseofscranton.org/Bishop's%20Pastoral%20Letters/RespectLifeSundaySeptember30th2008.asp


Here's some of the money sentences:

"Furthermore, public officials who are Catholic and who persist in public support for abortion and other intrinsic evils should not partake in or be admitted to the sacrament of Holy Communion. As I have said before, I will be vigilant on this subject."

Here's his quote of the former Bishop of Scranton:

"They are wrong when they assert that abortion does not concern them, or that it is only one of a multitude of issues of equal importance. No, the taking of innocent human life is so heinous, so horribly evil, and so absolutely opposite to the law of Almighty God that abortion must take precedence over every other issue. I repeat. It is the single most important issue confronting not only Catholics, but the entire electorate."

OK, we have some excess crack babies, can we drop them off at the Rectory?

----
The headline of this thread is a little deceiving. The bishop's letter doesn't mention McCain, but it says that abortion should be the overriding issue for Catholic voters. If the bishop endorsed McCain in the bishop's official capacity, that would be an IRS violation. However, a religious leader is allowed to talk about any political issue.

[rug]

22. What pisses me off about the letter is he's trying to couch it as moral theology, not politics.

At least last week's evangelical preachers were honest enough to openly endorse the Republican candidate.

I just finished sending an email to my pastor who's going to read this shit tomorrow to a captive audience.

[LordJFT]

14. Especially suprising given Biden's a catholic from Scranton

[LiberadorHugo]

15. Benedict's Bishop Boy Buggerer Backs Beavis and Barbie

hahaha

The clergy also love the serial rapist, anti-woman pseudo-commie Daniel Ortega. That says it allo.

[treestar]

17. Priest tonight was trying to tell us to vote repuke

Not directly, but going on about who has voted for "life."

It kind of made me see directly: why don't Catholics just say that as Catholics they don't do abortions. They are free to follow that rule in the good old freedom of religion USA. Why is it necessary that the government have anything to do with, and enforce, this particular religious practice of the Catholics? If you're Catholic, you don't get an aborion when you are pregnant and don't want to keep the child. Nothing stops us from following that rule.

Then let others follow their own rules. If they are comfortable with the practice (and some Christians are) or they belong to another religion or none at all and are comfortable with it, who are the Catholics to insist their way to legislatively be prohibited?

It's as if the Catholics are admitting they need the government to make laws that will force them to comply with their own religious doctrine.

[WinkyDink]

19. Because if one sees abortion as murder, one's conscience forces one to try to eradicate the practice

It's very simple.
My mother always objects to her priest speaking out. I tell her to become a Protestant. ;)

[LiberadorHugo]

21. The Catholic Church is fucktarded...

There is no scriptural basis for restricting abortions. Just about every Jew knows this, and the New Testament adds nothing to the picture on this issue.

[rug]

27. You're wrong, theologically, but this is about state power not theology.

[SoxFan]

31. I'll tell you who is "fucktarded"

Loudmouthed armchair revolutionary wannabes, who make bigoted, broad-brushed statements insulting the faith of millions of Americans.

The Catholic Church is the sum of its members. By your standard, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, John Kerry, ted Kennedy, Tom Harkin, Maria Cantwell, Jack Reed, Pat Leahy, Patty Murray, Barbara Mikulski, Bob Casey, Ken Salazar, Mary Landrieu, John Lynch, Brian Schweitzer, Bill Richardson, Jennifer Granholm, John Baldacci, Christine gregoire, and kathleen Sebelius are all "fucktarded".

[treestar]

54. Very interesting. I've never seen anyone try to make the Catholic

Church justify its position on the subject.

In fact, I recall reading that there was a time when abortion was permitted even by Catholics when it was before "quickening." Only modern medical technology got them to even see conception as the defining event.

Though if against birth control, that does not seem right. They don't even try to make that illegal - but if they get abortion made illegal again, that's sure to be their next issue.

[rug]

24. If the Church needs the state to arrest people who "sin", it's time to replace priests with jailers.

[abumbyanyothername]

45. If they believe that "life" LEGALLY "begins at conception"

then their position is mandated by the due process clause ("nor be denied of life . . . without due process of law. . . "

Of course, then there are a few things that need to be changed over at the IRS, and in state probate court, as well as many child endangerment law issues, etc.

The law is simply not equipped to deal with the concept of life begins at conception.

And I am willing to make a deal with the bishop . . . you don't practice law, and I won't celebrate the eucharist, or receive confessions, or administer other sacraments, or bugger the altar boys. OK?

[treestar]

49. OK, I get that. But then why don't they have more concern for those

getting killed in Iraq, who have even been born and have names. Voting for the repukes eases their conscience about each life beginning, but you'd think that the sanctity for "life" they claim would be extended to those already born, and that they would have a hard time voting for repukes, too.

[WinkyDink]

18. Correction: "The American Catholic Church has a long history of liberal activism" should read:

"liberal activists".

The CHURCH has never been "liberal".

[Celeborn Skywalker]

38. Well,

it's been more liberal than the fundies (which isn't saying much). The Church supports poverty eradication, abolishment of the death penalty, and are generally anti-war. They do, however, have abhorrent views on women, choice, and homosexuality. So it's kind of a mixed bag, I guess.

[WinkyDink]

44. Yes, the Church "supports" Christian values. But as for "activism", Pope Benedict:

"As head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger waged a campaign against liberation theology, which had gained ground among priests in Latin America and elsewhere as a means of involving the Church in social activism and human rights issues."

Also:
http://www.gotquestions.org/liberation-theology.html

[azmouse]

20. Just another reason why I'll never step foot in a Catholic church.

[NC_Nurse]

23. Whack job.

[Mz Pip]

25. But the war monger

and insane creationist are okay? Sheesh. :eyes:

Some of these bishops are so good at picking and choosing their outrages.

[jeanpalmer]

48. On the major issue of the day, the Iraq War,

the Catholic Church was AWOL. Apparently, adult life as in the lives of innocent Iraqis means nothing to them. That's why they're hypocrites.

[LynneSin]

26. "Being 'right' on taxes, education, health care, immigration and the economy fails to make up....

for the error of disregarding the value of a human life"

So in a nutshell this priest is saying FUCK EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ELSE IF A FETUS IS IN HARMS WAY.

That is the most horrible thing I've ever heard EVER - This priest says that it's better we start a great depression running a neverending war with children having no healthcare or food or decent education IF we can say a few fetuses.

That's just sick.

What about those children who ARE born?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

BTW, Joe Biden is Catholic and regularly attends mass in Wilmington. He's also invited every year to be a part of the St. Anthony's Italian Festival Parade which is also Catholic sponsered. In my very Italian, Catholic neighborhood - everyone loves and is voting for Obama/Biden. So it's nice to know that stupidity in the Catholic church is not everywhere.

[treestar]

55. I think a lot of Catholics think for themselves

Though the doctrine of the church seems not to allow that. But it's just too medieval.
So people sort of gloss over it.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. Yes, IRS will ignore. Obama administration must not issue an amnesty on this.

These Churches must be penalized.

[Hansel]

29. No, vote for someone who is a war monger instead.

Then they can kill both the mother and the fetus.

This is such an asinine stand. It's not about life. It's about controlling women. The Catholic Church is one of the most misogynistic institutions around. They need to start being a little more honest about it. They could care less about life and this moron's support of John McCain proves it.

[bklyncowgirl]

32. Fine, then his church should be taxed as it is no longer a non-partisan institution nt

[BlooInBloo]

33. Oh Jesus, please save us from your followers.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. There should be a boycott of the Churches that are endorsing McCain.

National boycott. No money given to them. A list of alternative Churches in their area can be issued so that people know where to go and send money.

Since the IRS has announced that it is "monitoring" the situation (i.e is doing nothing) it is up to others to hurt their money mills where they will feel it---in their pocket books.

[KathieG]

35. Time for the IRS to pay the Bishop a little visit

[4_Legs_Good]

39. I have to say that I left the Catholic Church just for this reason

There are so many others, but this type of crap in 2004 was the last straw.

It really pisses me off that I had to leave too, but this shit is *WAY* out of line.

David

[Not a robought]

40. Recovering Catholic here as well

Couldn't stand the hypocrisy and misogyny from the sermon. I remember as a teenager hearing the priest Sunday after Sunday go on about the immorality portrayed on Three's Company with two women living with a man. Also remember seeing women in the congregation around me cringe when the priest would tell them to remember their central purpose was to serve their husband and bear him children.

I don't know if that still goes on, it's been 15 years since I've stepped foot in a church. Useless waste of my Sunday morning if these priests can't reach a little deeper.

[Lugnut]

42. I bailed out several years ago.

The hypocrisy did it. In this geographical area there are a handful of RCC churches remaining where there were dozens. The church is slowly but surely putting themselves out of business.

[crossroads]

57. Thank God they are!

I feel nothing separates people from their real connection to Spirit than religious dogma! FEAR of going to their version of Hell is how the church has controlled the masses! Just my opinion! I sincerely doubt Jesus would be a Christian today - seeing what they have done to others in His name!
CR

[progressivebydesign]

41. The Catholic church continues to preach that women are second class citizens, should stay pregnant.

Why does anyone still listen to those people? They're like something out of the Dark Ages.

[nyc 4 Biden]

46. That was idiotic.

[Danger Mouse]

43. This is seriously not proper. At all.

Sigh.

[Waiting For Everyman]

47. Are there no DNC lawyers?

Any adult who would let someone tell them who to vote for in a secret-ballot election, has no backbone whatsoever.

[olegramps]

51. Is that a code word for Traditional Catholic?

[JerseygirlCT]

52. We better hear about an immediate visit from the IRS

And I hope we see a backlash from the pews.

Do these old men really think their parishioners are that stupid?

[Thrill]

53. Why have we never seen such outrage against other Pro-Life candidates

Methinks these so called religious people are showing their racist colors.

[saltpoint]

56. I hope NE Pennsylvania Catholics will set Bishop Martino's remarks

aside and instead exercise their own good judgment on what kind of America they would like to live in -- and under which candidate's administration their grandparents and children and children's children's children would most prosper and thrive.

If they approach it from that angle, Bishop Martino's political wish will not be granted.

[tomg]

58. And that is why, except

when a relative is getting married or getting buried, I stopped going into Catholic Churches.