Calm down.

[busymom]

This is exactly what was supposed to happen. Our government knew about this impending crisis but presented it at us until the last minute to try and push through what they wanted. Now we need to calm down, step back and put together something that will help main street and hard working Americans without profiting wall street above everything else. There may be some more fallout first and we'll have to accept that, but the sky is not falling. America is not going to fail. We are going to have some pain and make some changes. By speaking out, we are also putting our government on notice. This is a government by the people, for the people...and we will have some say in how things turn out.

Don't panic though...panic leads to poor decisions.

[damonm]

1. Well said - proud to be 1st Rec.

[Curtland1015]

2. No decisions leads to disaster.

There has to be a balance because we are NEVER going to create a plan that everyone will be happy about.

[busymom]

4. you're right. But we have to calmly come up with the best possible plan.

[Myrina]

14. Being calm, thinking rationally & making hard choices, unfortunately, aren't things ..

... Americans are very good at. If we were, we likely wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.


:shrug:

[ann_american2004]

58. I wonder if the people on the titanic

had time to do that? How long did the 'important' people take before they told the 'little folks' the ship was sinking?

[JuniperLea]

5. This has gone global... there's nothing ANYONE can do now...

Nothing. Two European banks failed today... we can't bail the world out... think about it for a minute.

Worldwide bank failures looming... more US bank failures in the works... the US does NOT have enough money OR CREDIT to bail the world out... we need to calm down and think rationally.

Throwing more money at this is throwing money away... we were well on our way on this runaway train before any stupid bill was presented! It was far too little and YEARS too late! It was all a ploy to devide the country further! There is no fixing what they started. I will have to run its course now.

The hand-basket has already arrived at the gates of Hell.

[busymom]

17. This is another reason to be hesitant about throwing 700billion at the problem

[JuniperLea]

19. Exactomundo, my friend...

We'd have to borrow that money anyway;)

[bvar22]

20. Especially throwing $700Billion of our CHILDREN's money.

They want to put the "bailout" on the credit card.

[busymom]

22. My children will already be paying for the Iraq war...

as it is, will they get any social security (will we???), will they be able to find quality, affordable healthcare insurance? A decision of this magnitude affects not just me right now...it affects my children's futures. It is too big to make a decision on in a week.

[ann_american2004]

60. I'm starting to think there is no money. Period.

not for you. not for me. not for your children. nada. not for years before and years to come. and we will find out soon enough. did they think all of this would just pay for itself? somebody owes the piper. and with or without a bill it's going to be all of us paying with what little we have left. this is what the Repug have wanted ever since FDR rained on their fiefdom parade.

[geek tragedy]

3. The sky IS falling.

People are not taking this seriously. The people who voted against this are not being serious.

[scheming daemons]

6. Sorry... I'm panicked. My kids college funds disappeared today... my retirement.....and....

next week...

It could be our jobs.

[crankychatter]

11. appropriate response nt - best of luck with that

[busymom]

7. So here is the most naiive question ever...

Is it possible for the world (ok, quit laughing) to simply close the markets for a few days and for all members of the world trading community to come together for a meeting of the minds?

Again. No laughing. I know it sounds crazy.

[mohc]

8. There are now two likely roads

1. The bailout talks collapse and a solution will wait until after the election. Meanwhile the markets will crash and we could very well pass a tipping point in the long run.

2. The bailout talks reconvene and a new compromise is reached. But the only way that will happen is with a far more conservative minded bill. The resistance on the left was far lighter than the resistance on the right. At this point it is more likely that a compromise bill will basically be a House Republican bill with support from centrist Democrats. The Democrats are not going to pass a bill with only Democratic support, and we just saw how little support House Republicans gave to a centrist bill. If people thought this bill did little for main street, wait until they see the next one.

[ContinentalOp]

15. Why do we need Republican support to pass a solution?

We needed to make sure Republicans were going to back this solution since it was such a politically unpopular stinker and we didn't want that hanging around our necks. But why can't the Democratic party show some real vision and come up with a solution that the American public can get behind? That way we can pass it anyway against Republican opposition and not pay a political price.

In fact I think we're in a way better bargaining position now than we were this morning before the vote.

[busymom]

16. I agree.

[Raineyb]

29. Because if only Democrats pass it they're afraid it'll be pegged as a Democratic bill

And the Repigs will throw passage of the bailout against them in the upcoming election. At least that will the rationale given.

Regards

[ann_american2004]

61. yes basically repugs will be the new mavericks

and dems will be Bush's cronies. aint that SOMETHING. how the f*ck did THAT happen????

anyway the Republican's maverick bs posing garbage is destroying everything. they are revealing their moron-ness at the worst possible time.

[Raineyb]

64. Frankly I think it was planned that way

I certainly don't see anything remotely decent coming out with Republican approval. They're still pressing their idiotic corporate tax cuts and deregulation nonsense after the painfully obvious evidence that their free market ideology does not work.

They'll probably spin the bailout as the Democrats idea while they're at it.

Regards

[busymom]

65. sigh

[Raineyb]

67. Looks like that's what they tried

But it sounds really stupid when you go out and say "The Speaker of the House hurt our feelings so we changed our vote."

It was never a worry.

Regards

[mohc]

63. Trying to pass a partisan bill will not work

Any shift to the left will lose all Republican support. There will be too many House Democrats in tough elections that occur in 5 weeks that it will be nearly impossible to pass anything with Democrats alone. Add to that the fact that Bush will likely veto a Democratic bill. And a lot of the public opposition is coming from the right, a more progressive bill will probably see more opposition in the short term. After the election is over we will see far more bravery among the House members, but until then its a bipartisan bill or nothing at all.

[Meshuga]

9. I agree n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. Sorry, but the OP is beyond naive

the distinction between wall street and main street is populist chum for morons.

There is only one street. It is the economic system of the western world and we all operate within it. All of us.

[busymom]

13. I understand that there is one "street"

but I would suggest that we need to take some time to focus on the best way to manage it. Helping the big companies at the top will do very little to provide universal healthcare, fix social security and medicare, make education more affordable for our children, etc. Maybe we need to be thinking outside of the box. At the very least, we need to start talking about alternative ways to handle this.

I'm all for a trickle-up approach instead of a trickle down approach. Hell, let's provide universal health coverage, job retraining, small business loans and govt. backed mortgages to the little guys and let the money slowly flow back uphill.

Maybe I'm naive, but I have 5 children who will end up paying for this. How will they get healthcare or retire???

[Terran]

28. And I think it's beyond naive

to believe that Paulson actually sat down and studied the situation and came up with an accurate figure of $700 billion that would solve the problem.

[abumbyanyothername]

59. The collapse is on now K&H

There is really nothing to be done.

USGOV should save its borrowing capacity to feed its poor.

edit: fixed typo in subject line

[specimenfred1984]

12. mommy says calm down kiddies, LMFAO!

It's only the worst financial meltdown in U.S. history due to the worst corruption and theft the world has ever seen!

[Born_A_Truman]

18. WTF? I thought the stock market had a time out when it was free-falling?

Did they halt trading today?

[TNMOM]

21. agreed. everyone calm down.

[WI_DEM]

23. So in other words the Republicans saved us from a bad bill?

[busymom]

24. This isn't about republicans or democrats...it is about America...the

worst thing we can do is inject partisan politics into this. Should we blindly support policies simply because they are put forth by members of our own party or are supported by certain members of our party? Should I reject something just because some people on the other side support it?

This transcends party affiliation.

[TieDyedDad]

31. busymom

This bill was far from perfect, but in reality it is necessary. Im no economist, just a dumb civil servant. The problem is Wall Street affects Main Street. The market tanks and credit lines dry up, not just for big corporations but for the little guy as well. Joe America isnt going to able to get a car loan in order to go back and forth to work, that young couple just starting out in life wont be able to get a mortgage, and those folks looking to send their kids to college wont get student loans. Dont forget for alot of people, 401k's are their entire retirement package, their retirement savings are going to be lost. Many large corporations wont make payroll, that means layoffs. Unemployment goes up, that means more government spending on entitlement programs. The House GOP screwed America today.

[King Coal]

55. Hey, Mom. It seems some people would argue that it is best to get excited and make impulsive

decisions. Go figure.

[busymom]

57. I know. They usually end up in time out in my house. LOL

[Barack_America]

25. Sorry, but I'm assuming that you don't live paycheck-to-paycheck...

And don't work for a small business. This is a little bit more serious for people in that situation.

[busymom]

26. then lets figure out how we can use 700 billion to help them first.

[walldude]

32. Shhh you're not allowed to mention that.

Some on DU apparently subscribe to Reagans "trickle down" theory. We bail out from the top and it will work it's way down. It's worked so well so far :eyes:. Maybe if we start bailing out at the bottom the morons at the top won't be so fast and loose with their money.

[Barack_America]

36. We use the 700 billion to first free up the credit markets...

So that these people's employers can afford to borrow the money for their paychecks.

We stop the stock market slide so people don't lose their retirements.

That is first and foremost.

[walldude]

27. I live paycheck to paycheck and am self employed

I have no money in the bank and no investments. I rent my home and I own my car. How is this going to affect me?

[Barack_America]

30. If your employer can't make payroll and can't get a loan in order to do so.

That is how it will affect you.

My mother used to be a bookkeeper for a company of around 50 employees. You'd be surprised how often companies need to borrow a bit to make payroll.

[walldude]

33. I AM SELF EMPLOYED in case you missed it

I have enough clients and contracts to carry me for the next 10 years. Now tell me again, how does this affect me?

[busymom]

34. It is going to affect you...but here is the joke...

it will hurt you even with the 700 billion dollar bailout proposed. You have no money in the bank and no investments...so the big impact you will feel is that you will find yourself getting less business. This will require some creative problem-solving for you for sure.

Would you be hurt less if the 700 billion was used to guarantee that you have health coverage, provide you with unemployment benefits and the opportunity to get some small business loans to expand your business or move it in a different direction?

[walldude]

39. My business won't change.

I can't give away much on DU because I did once in the past and a freeper figured out who I was working for. But I work in an industry that will continue to go on unless we fall into a major depression. I have no worries about where my next paycheck is coming from.

However I would love to be able to get health care. I can afford it but because of pre-existing conditions my wife and children have I can't get it.

[Barack_America]

42. People losing their jobs and investments = less tax revenue = no healthcare for you.

I'm assuming that you were hoping that Obama's tax plan would be able to help you get healthcare? Well, by and large, that tax plan is now on hold.

[walldude]

45. oops damn slow DU.. sorry for the double post.

[Barack_America]

51. Glad to hear that you and your family are in good health...

And not facing a sudden illness or hospitalization that devastates so many families.

Seriously.

[walldude]

49. Been without health care for 7 years now.

Why should tomorrow be any different. You should really stop now. I'm getting tired of people like you telling people like me that I should be willing to cough up my hard earned money to bailout people who are better off than me. People who own homes, people with insurance, people with money in the bank and investments. They never gave a shit about me till they wanted my tax money why should I be willing to give it to them?

[TieDyedDad]

35. You rent

Do you know what your landlord does for a living? Your rent might go up if your landlord loses his job.

[Barack_America]

40. Also, as people lose their homes, rents naturally go up across the board.

Supply and demand.

[Barack_America]

38. I'm assuming then that you have customers of some sort?

Ever think that they might borrow in order to pay you? What happens if they're out of work?

[walldude]

43. My landlord owns a ton of properties. an increase in my rent

is not going to be anywhere the 15,000 it will cost me for the 5 people in my house if I have to cover my share of the 700 billion. Also the people I work for are entertainers, they have plenty of money and if you think the economy is slowing ticket sales you are sadly mistaken. Anything else? Because you are really reaching at this point.

[TieDyedDad]

46. Yeah something else

Do you care about your neighbors? I live in New York, and I watched the economy of upstate completely destroyed in the 80's. Many corporations take out loans to make payroll, those corporations not getting loans to make payroll, means layoffs. Laid off people dont go to concerts.

[Barack_America]

50. self delete.

wrong spot

[walldude]

56. Laid off people dont go to concerts

Not true at all. As the economy has gotten worse attendance has gone up there have been many record breaking tours and shows in the last couple years. Zeppelin, AC/DC, Madonna, Springsteen and others are selling out shows all over the globe for 2009. People need to escape and they will push a bill back a few weeks to cover the cost of a decent night out.

And is this what it is going to boil down to? Do I care? Well I care, about my friends and family and any of them know I'll always be there to help them if they need it. Do I care about politicians or Wall Streeters? Do I Care about people too stupid not to live within their means? No. I don't. Sorry. My ethics keep me from "borrowing" money. I came in this world not owing anyone anything and I'm going out the same way.

[Barack_America]

47. And you think your situation is typical?

That this is the circumstance that most Americans and small business owners are facing?

Listen, I'm glad to hear that you're in good shape (but sorry to hear that healthcare has just gotten farther from your reach), but I'm more concerned with the vast majority of Americans who are in a very different situation you are in.

[walldude]

52. No situtation is typical. That's my point. I was called a freeper an asshole

a moron and other wonderful things for not wanting this "bailout". I guess because I never took anything I didn't earn, I never "borrowed" money, I don't have any credit cards, I am an asshole for not wanting to bailout people who weren't as honest as me.

And to think I used to actually like coming here

[TieDyedDad]

54. Bro

I understand your reaction to the bailout, I think it sucks too. The problem is if the market crashes its not just corporate fat cats that get hurt, the little guy does too. I dont think you are a bad guy for feeling the way you do.

[bvar22]

37. K&R

I agree. Calm Down.

Stealing $700Billion form our children and throwing it at Wall Street isn't going to magically make everything all better. At best, it will simple postpone a meltdown until after the election.

This didn't just happen by accident.

Fix the boat before we start bailing or we are just wasting time and money.
For a boat repair manual, SEE "Franklin Roosevelt".
Also SEE Teddy Roosevelt "Trust Buster".

[Raineyb]

62. Exactly right!

This is exactly why I did not support this bailout.

First fix what's wrong before bailing out otherwise Wall Street will end up coming back to you for more money after they piss away the money they extorted from us in the first place.

Well said!

Regards

[Critters2]

41. panic leads to poor decisions.

Yep. I've been saying this for a week.

[TheDonkey]

44. I agree. Finance professionals I talk to are not concerned about this drop

The market plummets 10% in one day. It can surge 15% in a few weeks with a net gain once this issue is resolved. No need to run to the hills or think that the Grapes of Wrath will need to be redone for a new century.

[busymom]

48. That's why I think we need to stay calm!

[Barack_America]

53. How do they feel about frozen credit?

:shrug:

[lefthandedskyhook]

66. Just read your post to my wife...

You said it better than me. She feels better now. Thank you!

[TexasObserver]

68. You are correct.

I'm sorry that some do not see that this is merely another day in the life of our country. When the public WANTS a bill, there will be a bill.

All those here who are wringing their hands as if this is the end of the world as we know it would do far better to tell all their friends and relatives who are at risk "well, exactly what did you tell your congressman you want him or her to do on the bailout?!"

Until the public demands it, there will be no bailout, and even when there is, it won't do more than help a few months.

[That Guy 888]

69. Great post. n/t