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John McCain is still a prisoner of Viet Nam!

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:06 PM
Original message
John McCain is still a prisoner of Viet Nam!
I haven't seen any comments about this, but it's clear to me that for John McCain, Iraq is a chance to show how we should have "won" the Viet Nam War if it only weren't for those damn liberals/traitors/communists who held the military back!


Plus - did you hear the implied reference to people spitting on returning troops of that era?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. He's a Prisoner in his Own Mind
in many more ways than one.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am going to use this. This is the first time I've heard this theory
advanced and not only do I think it's very interesting, I think it's correct, and I think it can be easily conveyed to undecided voters. Thanks for another weapon in my beating back the low-information masses.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. There are many who are still fighting that war!
Including my brother-in-law! I think they have a vast network of haters out there.

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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. That is indeed true and this time McCain wants an active role rather than a passive one
his "heroism" as a captive = passive role
McCain knows this and it drives him crazy
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have thought this for a long time
He's still fighting the war in Nam. Last night he looked tired, defeated, angry and humiliated. "You were wrong John." Obama might have been saying to him "You were wrong about Nam and you're wrong now too."
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pop goes the weasel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. that's essentially what my daughter said /nt
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. McCain felt "victory" was achievable in Vietnam as well, thinks the US should have stayed
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2008/07/04/mcain_vietnam/


Indeed, what is most striking about McCain's attitude toward Vietnam is his insistence that we could have won -- that we should have won -- with more bombs and more casualties. In 1998, he spoke on the 30th anniversary of the Tet Offensive. "Like a lot of Vietnam veterans, I believed and still believe that the war was winnable," he said. "I do not believe that it was winnable at an acceptable cost in the short or probably even the long term using the strategy of attrition which we employed there to such tragic results. I do believe that had we taken the war to the North and made full, consistent use of air power in the North, we ultimately would have prevailed." Five years later, he said much the same thing to the Council on Foreign Relations. "We lost in Vietnam because we lost the will to fight, because we did not understand the nature of the war we were fighting, and because we limited the tools at our disposal."

Very few military historians agree with McCain's bitter analysis, which suggests that a ground invasion and an even more destructive bombing campaign, with an unimaginable cost in human life, would have achieved an American victory. But perhaps because he is obsessed by the humiliation of defeat -- which fell directly on his father, Adm. John S. McCain Jr., who served as the commander in chief of Pacific forces during the Vietnam conflict -- the former prisoner of war seemingly can formulate neither a rational assessment of that war's enormous costs nor of its flawed premises and purposes.

<snip>

In McCain's mind, those lives and that treasure were expended in a "noble cause." Presumably he believes that we were seeking to preserve the freedom of the South Vietnamese from North Vietnamese communist oppression. But the politics of Vietnam and the geopolitics of the war were at once more complicated and simpler. Complicated because South Vietnam was a corrupt dictatorship that had forfeited the loyalty of most of its citizens, who regarded the United States not as a liberator but as the latest invader in a long procession that dated back centuries and included the French and the Chinese as well.

What vital American interests required so many deaths and so much suffering? There were none, but presumably, again, McCain thinks that we were forced to push back against communist expansion in Asia. That too was an awful misconception, based on cultural ignorance, since the Vietnamese accepted Russian and Chinese assistance only to expel the American occupation. Within the decade that followed the American defeat in Indochina, our diplomats were opening a new relationship with China while the Soviet Union, along with communism as an ideological threat, was on the verge of disintegration.




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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Wow - try repeating that sentence with a few minor changes :
The original: "We lost in Vietnam because we lost the will to fight, because we did not understand the nature of the war we were fighting, and because we limited the tools at our disposal."


The new version: "We will lose in Iraq because we lost the will to fight, because we did not understand the nature of the war we were fighting, and because we limited the tools at our disposal."
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Chilling, isn't it?
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Tweety actually was very critical of McCain's remarks.
He said that McCain implied that the "war" has to be "won" in order for killed and wounded soldiers' service to be considered honorable. Tweety said that the soldiers should be honored because they served their country bravely and not based upon the overall outcome of the war.

Tweety was really fired up on this point.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I heard Obama say much the same thing - that no American soldier dies in vain.
Seperating the honor of the American soldier from "victory in Iraq" (whatever that is) is a major step forward out of this morass.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. What was that song.. "Still in Saigon"
It echoes in my head whenever I see McCain...
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