In all fairness, I think McCain did remarkably well last night...

[Bucky]

especially considering the fact that he's wrong on all the major issues and is advocating a foreign policy that has already been flat out rejected by the entire public and is too much of a chickenshit to look Barack in the eye or even shake hands with Michelle as a common courtesy after the debate.

(Cindy didn't have a problem being gracious, I notice. Maybe the Republicans nominated the wrong McCain.)

Anyway, the only poll on debate performance that I've seen validates my conclusion that McCain proved himself the better debater. MSNBC showed a post debate poll in which 39% said Obama won, 37% said it was a tie, and 24% said McCain won. On paper that might look like a victory for Obama, what with foreign policy supposing to be McCain's "strong suit" and all.

But when you factor in the context that Obama was advocating a common sense foreign policy rooted in the fundamentals of 230 years of American bipartisan policy and the values that America has always stood for--while the policy McCain was arguing for was just plain old batshit nonsense--the fact that 24% of people thought McCain won is clearly a rebuff.

:eyes:

[BeyondGeography]

1. Come back to us when you've figured things out for yourself

Because your post is an absolute mess.

[Lerkfish]

2. I could be wrong, but I think tongue in cheek sarcasm was being employed in the OP

:)

[nam78_two]

7. I think the OP is being sarcastic

He captured some of the M$M's bullshit spin :).

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. ROFL

:thumbsup:

[rucky]

3. What Bucky doesn't seem to understand

is incomprehensible when it comes to preconditions on failed states bordering Iraq with Spanish dictators three inches shorter than most people.

[mtnsnake]

4. I also think he did remarkably well to make it thru the night by lying nonstop

I mean, WTF is the moderator supposed to do, interrupt McCain and say, "Senator McCain, you know it's against the rules to lie all the time. You are only allowed two major lies per debate, not 50."

[Captiosus]

5. What?

Anyway, the only poll on debate performance that I've seen validates my conclusion that McCain proved himself the better debater.

Forcefully interrupting someone speaking and then speaking louder and angrier to drown out everyone else isn't a superior debater. It's someone who is superior in arguing and being angry. Skirting issues by launching into a "bracelet" narrative isn't a debate, it's a narrative.

I seriously can't fathom how people were saying it was his best debate ever.
It was anger, contentiousness and narratives. That's no debate.

Obama was cool, collected and directly answered points.
Obama debated. McCain argued.

[trueblue2007]

6. I think these kinds of posts DON'T EVEN BELONG HERE

Stop this stuff now

[mtnsnake]

9. Why not?

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

12. cabuse.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. So I was on record here as expecting McStunt to arrive in a Clown Car

and that things would proceed to go downhill from there. Consequently I was severely depressed when I went to bed last night.

I agree, given the circumstances, Gramps did better than I expected. He still did not manage to get his clown shoes on right, and there is no wrong way to do that.

[Vote2008]

10. Wow, you saw something different than any of us!

[cali]

11. Well, he managed not to explode on stage. For him, I think that was

an accomplishment.

[On the Road]

13. I Thought McCain Did Well, Too

Considering how debates in the last two elections have been judged, I thought he would get a small bounce in the polls.

Fortunately, the public and the talking heads seem to have a different perception.

[RagAss]

14. Hey, we're in the final stretch here...go post this in Freeperville !!!!

[Peacetrain]

15. That little sarcasm tag is a great thing !

:), it really clarifies a post sometimes/

[Bucky]

17. It's a great thing for dullards

:sarcasm:

[Peacetrain]

25. OHHH so you really do think McCain did a good job??

All Righty Now. That is a whole different ball of wax. In that case, in what alternate universe were you watching the debate :rofl:

[Bucky]

26. I didn't say I don't fail to not agree if McCain's debate showing wasn't better than otherwise seen.

I believe I've made myself perfectly clear on this matter.

[goodgd_yall]

16. Anyone who thought McCain did remarkably well

must have had a really low expectation of his performance to begin with. I wasn't surprised or impressed by his performance. In fact, his body language was really off-putting and was as indicative of who the man is as anything he said.

[Overseas]

18. He had the right medications that gave him sustained focus.

I expected him to have a "scrambled words event" but he didn't. He sustained some paragraphs. But then he's been gabbing at the senate for years, so that really shouldn't be hailed as a huge accomplishment. However, with a few disturbingly incoherent moments behind him on the campaign trail, we were all wondering if he'd have a full meltdown last night. Since he didn't, and remembered some paragraphs to reel off, that was considered a success for him.

His rudeness was appalling. Especially coming from the senate where even those not selected as Miss Congeniality are still courteous, since they need to work across party lines. 25 years in the senate and he just couldn't summon up some basic courtesy for the debate last night. Or was just dumb enough to withhold it from the Presidential candidate of the political party that has millions more members than his own. I hope all Democrats remember that.

I sincerely hope millions of Democrats saw his scornful attitude toward a fellow senator and realized John Sidney McCain III would never understand or respect their needs. He could huff and puff and cuss at the Democratic candidate for President who was trying to engage in civilized debate. He seemed to consider it beneath him to even look at Senator Obama.

So John Sidney McCain III showed his true colors:

Country Club First !! Top Two Percent Only !! Trickle Down Forever !!

[Median Democrat]

20. Disagree, McCain Is A Good Debater, Destroyed Romney, But Could Not Slow Obama

I don't understand these posts, since they appear to come from folks who think all Republicans should sound like cavemen just because we disagree with them. The Republican point of view is easy to sell, because it is simplistic, and unnuanced. It is very Cro-Magnon:

1. Strong Military!
2. Low Taxes!
3. Free Market!

Yes, these are slogans, but they are easy to put out and they create an aura of understanding when the problems facing the U.S. are so complex, thus hard to explain.

McCain has the advantage in that he does not really have to deal with nuance. All he has to do discuss foreign policy is discuss "more troops" and it has a certain truthiness to it.

That being said, having watched McCain and Obama's debates, I thought Obama did very well. While many on this board have this view of McCain as a blithering idiot, during the RNC debates, he always managed to stand out among some very strong personalities like Huckabee, Romney, and Guiliani. You don't do that by sounding like an idiot during a debate.

So, my take is that McCain really needed to hit it out of the park, which he didn't, since his goal is to portray Obama as risky, which he failed to do. At the end of the debate, did you view Obama as a Democratic version of Sarah Palin? If not, then McCain failed miserably because that was his goal, not to merely sound competent in foreign policy.

[Bucky]

22. Did you see Pat Buchanan this morning on MSNBC?

He made sort of the same point. He thought McCain "won it on points" but that because Obama acted presidential, he "crossed the threshhold" of people being able to see him as commander in chief. He seemed sober and informed compared to McCain's almost pouty performance.

When you're a Republicans and you've lost Pat Buchanan, you've lost.

[screembloodymurder]

21. He delivered well, but many times he didn't answer the questions.

He just gave a rehearsed speech. For example when asked what programs would survive given a limited budget, he talked about cutting spending. Obama addressed the questions, McCain just recited his talking points. It was all canned stuff.

[Bucky]

23. Well shit, what was he going to talk about? The *facts*? The real world?

It's not like Republicans can run on the record. All they have is empty rhetoric and baseless personality attacks.

[Blue Belle]

24. He held himself better than I expected...

but he wasn't the better debater. His answers were misleading, false, and condescending. It was a nice reflection of his character - and if Socrates was around to see/hear this McCain would have been bitch-slapped for his dishonesty.