The Ethanol Gaffe - could lose the election on this one thing alone

[grantcart]

Its one thing to make a nuanced statement that you think we need to take a hard look at Ethanol to see how it can be improved to become more viable. Its another to just stomp on it like it is a big scam.

Those DUers who are tied to agricultural communities know that the increasing globalization of food has stalemated food prices and now for the first time in a long time farmers are getting a real break on the price of their wheat and corn. For the normal farmer it means that they can pay down some of the heavy debt that has threatened their very existence.

Most of us would love to see somthing much more substantial happen than Ethanol. But people who feel that way are not going to change their vote because of Ethanol.

If your a corn farmer - or even another type of farmer its enought to turn you from McCain into an Obama supporter. You may disagree on 50 other issues but you are a one issue voter on that one issue.

Here is the production of corn by state by bushels

Iowa . . . . . . 1.7 billion

Illinois . . . . 1.6 billion

Nebraska . . . . 1.1 billion

Indiana . . . . . 800 million

Minnesota . . . . 800 million

Ohio . . . . . . .400 million

Kansas . . . . . .400 million

South Dakota . . .400 million

Missouri . . . . .300 million

Wisconsin . . . . 300 million





Now look at this chart of swing states





McCain just committed a major bone head mistake - it's the kind of thing that we knew he would do - petulant and without consideration. He gave up hundreds of thousands of key votes in swing states without scoring any real vote.

It will be interesting to see what polls in the corn belt show but his arrogant disdain for ethanol was insulting and patronizing and I think you will see corn families and the communities they support all of a sudden real interested in learning everything they can about voting for that funny Obama guy.

[WA98296]

1. I've been wondering why we're not hearing a fuss over that. And

The Kansas paper claims McCain the "winner"

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. It's a Missouri paper

Kansas City, MISSOURI

[bulloney]

46. Farmers make up about 1% of the population and will vote Republican no matter how much it counters

their best interests.

They just play their alibi cards to rationalize their support for the Repub--guns, gays, abortion.

Or, they'll tell you about that Jimmy Carter embargo against the Soviet Union. That myth was debunked by a USDA report released under the Reagan Administration that stated that the impact of the embargo on U.S. farmers was not significant.

[WA98296]

2. dupe

[CarbonDate]

3. It is a major scam.

Sorry to say, I actually agree with McCain on this one.

[billyoc]

4. It sure is. But that's what corn farmers vote on.

[grantcart]

13. the fact is it is keeping tens of thousands of farmers from slipping into poverty

There is the possibility that it will evolve into something beyond corn and prove viable

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Promise-of-Cellulose-Ethanol&id=1513045

It is estimated that the United States alone can generate around 500 million tons of biomass per year. This yield would enable the production of about 40 billion gallons of cellulose ethanol annually, replacing about 25% of the total gasoline consumption in America today. The importance of getting cellulose ethanol online is quite evident, but the transfer process is a gradual one at present. Cost effective ways to produce cellulose ethanol are being developed and optimized, and a substantial infrastructure of production and deliverability is on its way. Further more, it is imperative in the process of commercial production of cellulose ethanol to greatly lessen the yield of any more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Cellulose Ethanol

The process of making cellulose ethanol is pretty close to the same process of making moonshine, but with a few other steps. The biomass material is first churned into fine particles and pretreated with an acid to start the breakdown process. It is then soaked in a high temperature container for several days as enzymes break down the cellulose molecule into simple sugars. The sugar is then fermented through a form of yeast or bacteria. Fermentation is basically the consumption of the sugar by the yeast, yielding fuel grade cellulose ethanol as a waste byproduct. The cellulose ethanol is then distilled from the sugar/yeast solution.

Like any other technology, it is through the passage of time and through consistent honing of the technology that the production costs are reduced and the yields are maximized. It is an evolving process whereby scientists discover better and more efficient ways to produce cellulose ethanol.

The first commercial facility to produce cellulose ethanol from biomass is due to come online by 2011 in the Midwest region of the United States.






In any case for McCain to simply throw this out without gaining anything in return was a major bonehead decision. He gave up tens of thousands of voters for no reason.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. McSame is right on this one, but he won't do jack shit about it other than complain

He's flip-flopped on ethanol a few times actually.

[DainBramaged]

61. But you are against the farmers then? And Unions? Who are you for?

vampires? What industry would you permit to make money, sewing?

[billyoc]

5. As soon as he said that I thought, "he's lost Iowa". But Obama was up 10 in Iowa already.

I forgot about the other states, though.

[OmahaBlueDog]

19. Yes, but other states are also heavily invested in Ethanol

Poet Biorefining has a bunch of plants in SoDak, for example. It's many jobs and the livelihood of a lot of corn farmers.

I'd put together a radio ad with the McSame sound bite, and a newspaper ad. Make buys on Ag Radio stations and local papers in Iowa, Eastern SoDak, Southern Minnesota, Northern Missouri, Northern Indiana, and Northern Ohio.

[FatDave]

38. I find it interesting that you and I had the exact same thought process at the exact smae moment.

"There goes Iowa...wait...he didn't have it anyway." And I was thinking this from my house in the middle of Iowa corn country. There is a huge corn field literally across the road from me. But hey, if it hurts him in Nebraska and MO, I'm OK with that.

[billyoc]

40. Another thing is, a more landslidey victory in Iowa would certainly get the pundits chattering.

:woohoo:

[FatDave]

43. It also might get Steve King out of the house.

How fucking sweet would that be? Pretty sweet for me, 'cuz he's my "representative".

[gmudem]

55. I have great sympathy for you.

That man is a pathetic joke of a human being.

[JBoris]

6. I am sure team Obama is putting together an ad right now to run in those states

... maybe with a clip from the debate played a few times.

[Chasing Dreams]

7. grantcart, what's your opinion of McCain's horseshit gaffe during Obama's discussion of Spain?

[grantcart]

8. it will go viral big time and no media will touch it - he might be saying

'of course it is' and if they get it wrong they will be toast but its a great viral piece

[Chasing Dreams]

10. Listen again, watch his lips. He clearly says Horseshit. Twice.

I can't watch it without cracking up. My guess is that it will be top ranked on YouTube within 24 hours.

[1Hippiechick]

30. I think he says, "That's horseshit" the first time, and then just "horseshit" the 2nd time, both

under his breath and to himself, he thinks. Which, btw, is another indication of old age, imo.

[FatDave]

44. I'm not so sure about the media not touching it.

I could see Keith playing it, maybe even Rachel.

[depakid]

9. Hate to say it but McCain is aboslutely correct. It's BAD POLICY

in many more ways than one.

THat said, it probably wasn't the wisest time to bring that fact up. LOL.

[joshcryer]

12. Corn ethanol is bad policy but there are other crops that aren't so bad.

Hemp for example. *looks at his icon*

[grantcart]

15. see 13 above

yes it is not viable now. But it isn't bad policy to give it a try and find a way to evolve it. Better than simply handing the money out IMHO.

[depakid]

20. See image below:

[joshcryer]

22. Didn't see that post, good stuff.

And of course the points about subsidies keeping farmers alive is on target.

[Chasing Dreams]

11. By the way, I do agree with you that this is the more important gaffe.

McCain is toast in Iowa, MN, WI, and probably Indiana and Ohio too.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

16. That and the so called Boeing subsidy

McSame would rather have Airbus build our Air Force tanker

[grantcart]

17. I missed that - I could only take him in short snippets lol

[grantcart]

18. just read a Seattle blogger that said there were loud boos in the bar where he is watching

but there is a big difference between the Boeing gaffe and the Ethanol one. Ethanol is spread over a lot of states all of whom are swing states and Boeing is concentrated in Blue states.

[silverojo]

23. I wish they'd turn on McStain, but they won't

Repukes are so stupid, they'll vote against their own best interests, rather than vote for a Democrat. Brain-dead imbeciles, all of them!

[SomeGuyInEagan]

25. Sadly, most Republicans vote *against* their (and our) best interests ...

... and don't even realize that they are voting for people who work to make their (and our) lives worse. Very, very few people benefit by voting Republican, only a handful of the wealthy elite, and those benefits are purely financial and power which they use to further their own greed and power, stomping down even those who give them the power.

Read "What's the Matter with Kansas?" by Thomas Frank. It covers this issue pretty well. I am still amazed at just how good those running th Republican party are at getting people to drink the kool-aid. And still pissed that by-and-large, Democrats haven't figured out how to use words and messages as effectively (not even close ... not by a long shot). It's basic marketing and promotion.

[grantcart]

50. Oh yes they will the farmers whose livelihood depend on favorable markets

follow this very closely - just look at Iowa --- In Indiana McCain is 20 points behind Bush in 2004 it is happening and McCain is helping.

[Petrushka]

24. Corn wasn't meant to be raised to make ethanol. It was meant for makin' cornbread and moonshine!!1!

[TheCML]

26. As someone who has had "moonshine"

Trust me you could run your car on that stuff. liberal rednecks unite!

[Petrushka]

28. Cars are SUPPOSED to be up on blocks a-rustin'!!!1! That map oughta tell ya somethin': RUMOUR:

West Virginia's biggest cash crop is weed.

[glitch]

31. Lol! Welcome to DU nt

[autorank]

27. Excellent analysis

I was surprised when he made that statement. It was shades of the occasionally honest politician.

Ethanol is a truly lousy proposition unless you're growing corn, in which case it is a real shot
at relief.

We'll see how the rural constituency responds. Many deserted Bush last time by simply staying
home. Bush had 2.0 million less votes in the rural US in 2004 than he did in 2000. That's huge.
If he gets any more, they're going to have to work hard to steal this one.

I hope Obama uses this to the max. The farmers can get their economic justice out of a government
that treats them like people. Bail out Wall Street, no way. Help the farmers.

[and-justice-for-all]

29. I do not find Ethenol to be viable...

We need that corn to feed people, we do not need to put in our tanks.

[rucky]

33. The farmers were the first to realize that.

But it was fun while it lasted.

Although I still support the OP's third-party candidacy, the ethanol issue's pretty much tanked. (pardon the pun)

[Realityhack]

53. "the OP's third-party candidacy" huh?? n/t

[Indiana_Dem]

32. I just sent the DailyKos article about this to my SIL corn farmer. Thanks!nt

[grantcart]

47. I didn't see it

[Indiana_Dem]

51. Here's a link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/27/75340/5729/979/612266

[AzNick]

34. Biodiesel: the French example

Are we talking about the same thing, here?

Obama mentioned bio-diesel, which seems to be a good solution to reduce oil imports.

In France (where I come from), most cars run on diesel and up to 15% of diesel fuel is diester, coming from the most part from Colza Oil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colza_oil

If you ever go to France, Belgium, Germany, all the yellow fields are that: Colza. It is used on parcels being rotated, when no wheat, corn or potatoes are sown, instead of just having weeds qrowing, farmers sow their fields with Colza, which grows freely and is a hardy plant.

Colza oil is also good for frying, and then it can be used for biodiesel.

Maybe the US are heading on the wrong direction on that one...

[renate]

39. that's really interesting--thanks!

I can't believe I've never heard of that... am I the only one? Why on earth wouldn't the U.S. grow the stuff too? :shrug:

[Barack_America]

35. The correct statement: "We've got to find a way of phasing out ethanol production...

while protecting America's farmers".

He totally screwed it up. I wasn't on DU during the debate, but when I and the people I was watching with heard that line, we all looked at one another and immediately proclaimed that a major gaffe.

[grantcart]

37. exactly -- don't get sidetracked on ethanol viability

its John McCain shooting from the hip.

[RoadRage]

36. I'm in NE... McCain just pissed in his own cheerios..

look at the map.. Ethonol is hugr in RED States.. not smart!

[grantcart]

41. no more cheerios for me lol

[OmahaBlueDog]

58. Yes,but aren't we supposed to be anti-ethanol in Nebraska?

All the feedlots and ranchers miss their cheap feed corn.

[RoadRage]

62. Honestly.. i don't know. I guess i figured with

farmers selling there corn for way higher prices due to ethenol, that was a good thing. I'm not a farm girl.. so i'm not quite sure which way the wind is blowing on the whole ethenol thing.

All I know is that it takes more energy to make it then what we currently get back out of it - so investing in other options is probably the way to go. ;)

Where in Omaha are you?

[Overseas]

42. Hope so ! Hope that fake maverick push-- see, I oppose something popular

that could cost me votes-- really does cost him votes.

He probably thought he was safe saying that because the corn states used to be totally Red States, when he could count on the DLC to ignore them as a lost cause. I'm so glad dear Dr. Dean has brought those states into play, and glad that McSame is so very Out of Touch.

And the 45 nuclear plants !! FORTY FIVE !! Not like we'll build three and see how things go, whether we can find a way to manage the waste. Nope. Johnny wants FORTY FIVE NUKES. Well I hope someone asks him whether Arizona will step forward and offer to store the waste.

[grantcart]

45. good point

[catgirl]

48. Passed on to Huffington Post

Great work Grantcart!! This part of the debate should be posted on YouTube as well.
I too, was astonished when he made this statement- and stressed his message.

[TexasObserver]

49. McCain definitely dug himself into a corn hole with that comment.

[Realityhack]

52. Unfortunately... it IS a big scam.

Yes this might bite McCain and I am for anything that hurts him... but Ethanol from corn is an unmitigated disaster that is propped up for political reasons (ie those you site). It is one of the very very few places McCain has a point.

Yes I hope McCain looses but man I wish it could be for the right reasons.

[dee15644]

54. said before

McCain has said this before about Ethanol. In fact, that is something he points to when he talks about telling people "straight talk"

[steve2470]

56. they agree that the ethanol industry faces some of its toughest challenges yet in the next few years

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10442570

Published Friday September 26, 2008
Senate candidates discuss ethanol in Grand Island
By ROBERT PORE
THE GRAND ISLAND INDEPENDENT

GRAND ISLAND, Neb. — While Nebraska's two Senate candidates, Republican Mike Johanns and Democrat Scott Kleeb, disagree on many issues, both are supportive of the nation's ethanol industry, as well as the federal policies and incentives that have helped that industry grow.

And they agree that the ethanol industry faces some of its toughest challenges yet in the next few years.

Both candidates were in Grand Island this week to discuss their views on ethanol at a meeting of the Association of Nebraska Ethanol Producers.

With Nebraska's ascent to being the nation's second-leading ethanol producer, Kleeb said, the ethanol industry has become an important contributor to the state's economy. Also, he said, the industry is helping the nation reduce its dependence on foreign energy and is a vital component of the country's national security.

Nebraska's ethanol industry is now estimated at $4 billion annually.

more at link above

[Laelth]

57. Yes, but McCain is right.

Bio-fuels are not the solution to our energy problems, and our subsidizing bio-fuels has enriched the big agricultural firms immensely while helping to cause a global food crisis.

It is a scam. It's yet another Republican give-away to the rich (even if a few small farmers also benefit). Of course, I won't be upset if McCain's position on this issue contributes to his defeat, but I also think he is right on this issue.

-Laelth

[Motown_Johnny]

60. Yes. bit did you notice Obama mention Bio-Diesel? You need to have some alternative

to corn based ethanol for the people who can't survive without it.


it isn't the point that he is right on this issue. It is the point that when asked what he would cut the one thing he decided to talk about was the ethanol subsidies.

[Motown_Johnny]

59. Michigan grows corn too...

http://www.micorn.org/

snip

ETHANOL
The ethanol industry is a fast-growing, fast-changing industry. Ethanol has become the major topic of conversation at meetings and farmer gatherings.
Click here to learn more.