We really ought to thank Zell...

[22181]

After watching his Chris Matthews appearance and hearing about his other appearances, he has put a nice crazy, hateful face on the RNC for us. I find myself actually wondering if he IS some bizarro undercover mole just planted by the Dems to spew outrageous hatefulness and make GWB look bad. If he is, then I must congratulate him. He's succeeded!

F'ing nutjob.

[michigandem2]

1. yeah I had to turn it off

I figured I would wait for the response..so far I like what I hear..he ranted and raved..and then looked crazy...bonus for us! LOL!

[MrBenchley]

2. I wonder how long before

Rush or somebody like him starts charging that Kerry put Zell up to it....

[krkaufman]

3. Or... "what do you expect from a hateful Democrat"...

... "we need to throw this one back."

[MrBenchley]

6. Zell forced his way into the Republican convention

and seized the stage, unwanted.....

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

5. Who DO you think you're kidding?

"I failed to see how Zell cast the Republican Party in a "crazy" or "hateful" light"
Wow...I'd hate to see what the level of acceptable discourse is in your neck of the woods. Zell gave the kind of speech that usually end with the speaker hauling out a rope and yelling "Let's string him up!"

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jo March]

10. Again - go away, little Freep

Take your crap somewhere else. Read the rules of this board again. This isn't a pro-Bush site. It isn't an anti-Kerry site.

Spew your crap somewhere else.

[xray s]

11. Guess what...we are not going to see any more of Zell

He's a whack job psycho who went into meltdown mode last night on national tv. You won't be seeing him any more. What a hateful, lying, bitter fool of a man.

Please, please, PLEASE Karl Rove! Let Zell go on TV every day between now and November 2!

[Jo March]

25. Zell, Pat Buchanan and Alan Keyes

They should all be on TV between here and 11/2! That would be great!

[Texas_Dem]

30. that is an

awful long time to observe Halloween don't you think? :-)

[Jo March]

31. Scary, scary, SCARY!!!!!

Be afraid! This is the face of the Republican party - the real one!

Be afraid!

TERROR!

[ClassWarrior]

49. You mean the mainstream of the RepubliCON party?

Tom Delay and Rick Sanctimonium too.

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. Sell spewed hatered from the podium last night

And Fox News smirked their way through it this morning, making it the main highlight of the morning, sandwiched in between hurricanes and Kobe's win.

So, instead of seeing what Republicans might do for America, they saw what they hate and how much they hate.

Goof job Zell. Please do become a Republican, they're just like you and they need you (hehehe)

Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Texas_Dem]

14. With Moore

he tells you where he is coming from. With Zell you never know where he is going to shoot next. Could be you, could be his foot. I suppose it depends on if he is seeing pink snakes that day.

[ellie]

16. What exactly has Michael Moore said that was so hateful?

Nice signature line, too.

[ArrDee]

35. A few examples off the top of my head...

Bush being an idiot. Bush being a coward. Bush being a deserter(which is, after all, a capital offense under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice). All Republicans as "hate-triots". Etcetera.

But, back the point, nothing even close to any of that was in Zell's convention speech.

[spooky3]

43. Two responses: (1) provide links to support your allegations.

(2) as Truman said, "I don't give 'em hell. I tell 'em the truth, and they THINK it's hell." When Moore speaks the truth, you are misinterpreting it as "hate."

[Generic Other]

45. Okay, what has Moore said that isn't true?

Bush an "idiot"? Bush a "coward"? Bush a "deserter"? Repubs "hate-triots"?

You have a flair for pointing out the obvious.

And your point is?

[krkaufman]

57. But, but, but...

Bush *is* an idiot. He's certainly bungled the economy, our military, and international alliances in record time.

Bush *is* a coward. He's a bully, and at the core of all bullies is cowardice. Grade school basics. If he *weren't* a coward, he'd be running his campaign on the merits of his record, rather than hiding behind the skirt of his wife and the lies of grudge-holding veterans.

Bush *is* a deserter. Obviously don't need to respond on this one; all available documentation and witness accounts back the charge.

Can't agree with the "hate-triots" line, since it blankets all Repugs; but there's sure a lot more o' them hate-filled cats on the right, than the left. (Would also need a link attributing quote to Moore, before commenting on that aspect.)

---

Besides, regardless of Michael Moore's stance on anything, Zell's zealotry, spite, anger, rage and irrationality are what Zell should be judged upon. Michael Moore has nothing to do with Zell Miller.

[MrBenchley]

17. Feel free to drag out any example of Michael Moore

ranting like that...

But yeah, I have heard Michael Moore lately....

"This week, in an appearance leading up to his arrival here Wednesday night, Bush acknowledged he had miscalculated what would happen in Iraq after he invaded it. He had thought it was going to be much easier. It turned out to be much, much worse.
That must be some comfort to the parents of nearly 1,000 brave soldiers now dead because of his "miscalculation." If I made a miscalculation and ran over a child on the street, what do you think would happen to me? Do you think the cops would simply say, "Hey, Mr. Moore, you did your best driving down this street, you made a miscalculation, the kid is dead, but you are trying to save the world, so be on your way?" Something tells me this is not what would happen. What I don't get is that Mr. Bush makes his mistake and thinks he has a right to continue in his job.
Let's hope he isn't getting his inspiration from Richard Nixon, the same man Arnold Schwarzenegger hailed Tuesday night as his reason for becoming a Republican. You have to give Arnold an award for guts. He must be the first Republican convention speaker to mention Nixon since he resigned. Nixon snuck into office in 1968 with his secret plan to end the Vietnam War. Another miscalculation: The war continued for years, and thousands more died.
I would love to hear Bush apologize tonight to the parents and loved ones of those who have died in Iraq. I would like to hear him say he knows what it means to love your children and that he, in good conscience, cannot send any more children to their deaths.
I would like to hear him say tonight, "I'm sorry. There never were weapons of mass destruction and there never was a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. There was no imminent threat, our lives were not in danger, no missiles were going to hit Cleveland. Because of our desire to get our hands on the second largest supply of oil in the world, we sacrificed a thousand of your sons and daughters. For this, we are greatly sorry."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-09-01-moore_x.htm

<sarcasm>Yeah, the hate just seethes off that, doesn't it? </sarcasm>

[northernsoul]

61. who has Moore challenged to a duel lately?

Just curious.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

20. Buh-Bye!

:eyes:

[PA Democrat]

26. Gee. I missed where the Democrats gave Michael Moore

the keynote speech for their convention. What night was that on ArrDee? I don't know HOW I could have missed that! :eyes:

[ArrDee]

36. Check #35

Clears up a few things about that topic/header.

[Walt Starr]

39. Wow, it got six whole posts before it died!

ArrDee now sleeps with the rest of the wroms:

[PA Democrat]

41. I asked you on which night of the Democratic Convention

was Michael Moore given a speaking slot (let alone THE keynote speech)?

I'm waiting.....

[emulatorloo]

What of Bush's nightmare record? The "Ceo president" outta be fired

EOM

[drdigi420]

48. Moore speaks truth

thats the difference

[59millionmorons]

7. Zell is a nutcase

Thank you for allowing him to speak at your convention.

[Jo March]

9. Um, ArrDee, are you trolling a bit this morning?

You seem to be quite anti-Kerry. "...imaginary romps through Cambodia"?

Go away, little troll. You are not needed here. Head on over to Free Republic where truth is not really that important.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jo March]

15. Took a shot at Kerry?

You come to a board on Democratic Underground, for crying out loud, and accuse Kerry of being wishy-washy and then you say that he doesn't have any legislative history.

Where in all of that is "civil discourse"? You are only here to stir things up. You are not here to debate the issues. You are here to take shots at Kerry cause trouble.

And your sig line - that's classic. Again, go back and read the rules of this forum.

Troll.

[MrBenchley]

18. My conscience would be pretty clear...wouldn't yours?

[Jo March]

22. It sure would - then again, I'm not a troll

and I read the rules for forums on which I choose to post. Apparently you did not.

If you are removed from this board, I will have nothing on my conscience. I'll sleep just fine at night.

Go away, troll.

[MrBenchley]

28. Me neither...

Expect he was just the latest in a long line.....

[ArrDee]

29. Heaven forbid!

Indeed, it would truly be a shame to have a smidge of intellectual diversity on the boards, wouldn't it? And please, show me where I've stirred things up. About the only things I've done are post a few replies to the questioning of whether Miller was indeed hateful and crazy last night and defended myself against being called a troll. I haven't caused any disruptions yet, unless a) you count disagreement with anything anyone posts a disruption or b) you count this as a disruption, for which my only recourse is that I was not the one who started the namecalling.

On his Senate record, perhaps wishy-washy was a poor choice of words. Trending towards the political left with many vacillations depending the political winds suit your tastes better? Or perhaps erratic would be more generic and politically correct way of describing it.

And if you would kindly reread my original statement, my statement was lack of legislative initiative. Kerry has no keystone legislation to his credit. He has no great amendment or bill that bears his name(Smoot-Hawley, for instance; and before you crack about that being a good thing, that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head). He's certainly no Teddy Kennedy in the legislation department: he's not even on the level of Tom Tancredo and his single-issue advocacy.

And yes, I did mean civil discourse. Have I resorted to namecalling or forum members, posting incendiary messages(assuming, again, that disagreement in any form isn't incendiary), or otherwise making a nuisance of myself beyond my mere presence? I'd think not.

[Walt Starr]

I have yet to see any civil discourse from you

Unbfortunately, I see a tombstone in your posting future.

[IdaBriggs]

37. Woefully Uninformed.

87 Legislative Laws with his name on them. A record of going after corruption (see Iran-Contra). Bi-partisan work on Vietnam MIAs. Signature accomplishments include veteran's affairs, children, etc. Oh, and what he did with the BCCI (when he dismantled the network that helped fund terrorism BEFORE it was a popular thing to do) should have you pretty happy, especially when the right wing folks were trying to STOP HIM from doing it. No signature achievements? Only if you don't CHECK!

I would very much enjoy some "civil" discourse, but unless you have actually seen Fahrenheit 9/11 (for example), the best you are going for is PREACHING. The beauty of the movie was that Michael didn't do much talking -- he let Bush and his compatriots do it for themselves. If you think Bush is good for this country, then I guarantee you haven't seen the video where he sat for seven minutes ignoring second graders while our country was under attack. That was when he proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was unfit to hold the keys to our nuclear arsenal. He hasn't improved since.

See the movie. Read the record (not the right wing talking points). Then try to tell me that a combat tested naval lieutenant, ex-prosecuting attorney/assistant district attorney, anti-corruption Senator ISN'T going to kick terrorist butt. Then remember that the people who stand to lose the most are the ones President Kerry will be working to put in jail, and you'll get why the lies are so prevalent.

If you want a private conversation, you can write me here: [e-mail] -- its a new account I created just for you. Its because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You were being polite. I assume you really want to know.

[Chelsea Patriot]

55. "Well, Bye-bye, Sugar...And Not A Minute Too Soon!"

[krkaufman]

58. I have no more time to waste on this, but...

... couldn't resist commenting on a perceived hypocrisy.

Kerry has no keystone legislation to his credit.

I don't have time or the inclination to defend Kerry on the facts; but wanted to thank you for the laugh -- based on my assumption that your anti-Kerry position may be inferred as pro-Bush.

You must need a wheelchair to get around, with balls so large that you'd criticize Kerry's record -- when viewed in comparison to that of his Republican opponent. Kerry's VVAW and BCCI efforts alone put him light-years ahead of the prodigal son, whose accomplishments prior to turning 40 were always tabulated using a base-6 numeric system.

[Walt Starr]

21. A word about your signature, the First amendment applies to the Govt.

NOT to private entities. This is a private forum. You want to be here, you abide by the rules. Unfortunately, to date, you have not abided by said rules.

If you want to take shots at Kerry, go the Freakerland. Of course, there you cannot take shots at Bush.

[Misunderestimator]

33. "Just hoping for a little civil discourse with the opposition"... hmmm

It's doubtful that you're hoping for that with the "opposition"... that clearly meaning DU. This is a site for democrats and others who want Bush out of office. If that's not you, then this site is not for you.

[terrya]

24. "Toodles, Arrdee!. Parting is such...whatever"

[zanana]

32. We didn't make Michael Moore a keynote speaker.

You guys made a very bad mistake last night, and it'll cost you dearly Nov. 2.

[krkaufman]

56. A few minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

Seriously, people protesting outside of a bowling alley because there's a Republican get-together going on inside is loony.

Ummm... It doesn't matter *where* a protest occurs, so long the message is communicated to those responsible for the misdirection of our ship o' state. In bizarro world, of course, protests may only be held out of sight and earshot of anyone who might notice.

... His speech at the convention did its job: bludgeon Kerry's Senate record senseless.

Zell's viewpoint was effortlessly bludgeoned by normally hapless and pro-administration CNN anchors, by simply asking Miller how he felt about Cheney's stance in pushing for cuts in the exact same programs Miller cited. Miller's further dodging questions regarding the legislative process and his "I have more documentation than the Library of Congress" nonsense made him look the partisan fool that he is, destroying any credibility that may have remained.

Beyond that...what? Not exactly hatemongering, ...

Zell's doublethink (Kerry bad, Cheney good) and his stated desire to challenge Chris Matthews to a duel exposed the irrationality and anger underlying the man. Hateful? How else to explain the illogical anger?

As for what Zell says outside of the conventional hall, that's his business, or at the most the Democrats problem(given that the D-GA is still after his name).

Eh, the significance cannot be measured. But it *is* the Republicans, and Miller himself, on whom Miller's Wednesday night performance will reflect poorly. For the Republicans to put the man up as their keynote speaker means they support and wish to promote his views. His behavior and performance in interviews immediately following his RNC speech *will* affect how the RNC is perceived.

If it's any consolation, Republicans will be going through the same fits of having an unhinged Senator running around after Arlen Specter get re-elected(assuming that God doesn't intervene and grant Joe Hoeffel a win...or that Arlen lives that long into his term to become a loose cannon)

No, it's no consolation. Personally, I'd prefer Hoeffel, and more like him. Give us your preferred candidates -- the Hoeffels, Santorums and Keyes of the world -- and the world will be a safer place. Once the Republicans stop hiding their extremism behind a facade of moderation, the ROG will be tossed into the trashbin of history, and we can get back to making some progress -- in our country and around the world -- rather than trying to rollback the 20th century.

[Beer Snob-50]

19. I wish I could see things like you all do!

I really think Miller made Kerry look bad with some serious revision of his voting record. He also made some serious revision of America's history of going to war.

[Bridget Burke]

23. Please explain!

What do you mean by "serious revision of his voting record"?

Most of us are Democrats; perhaps that's why you can't see things like we do.

[Beer Snob-50]

34. I think Miller revised Kerry's record

when he talked about all the weapon programs that Kerry voted to get rid of. Yes, he voted to get rid of them but Dick Cheney was the defense secretary who asked Congress to do this. I he also revised things when he talked about the other conflicts that America was involved in. All of them were either because America's interest was at stake or the interests of our allies were at stake and they asked us to help. "Preemptive War" is not an American value adn that is what the Iraqi war is!

[chiburb]

52. Thank you for explaining!

:-)

[Beer Snob-50]

54. your welcome!

i think we agree on this subject.

[chiburb]

27. Yes, please come back and explain that one?

[wadestock]

63. The so called "voting record" is pure BS

First understand they were pure lies in terms of equating Kerry's voting record to anything which relates to a weakening defense. Do you remember all the criticism Clinton took for gutting the military....it never happened.....we just didn't go on a rampage that equalled and exceeded military ramp ups during wartime as in the Reagan years.

These votes didn't put a dent whatsoever in the military industrial complex.

They're trying to resurrect the "Carter B-1 bomber" type effect....it's not going to work.

The worse of these so called reduction votes were made after the iron curtain went down and we didn't have to have the same level of defense as in the "old days" of the cold war.

[Junkdrawer]

38. LOL. Great minds...

Does anyone else think Zell's meltdown was a Democratic mole attack? I mean, if he got up there and did a "with a heavy heart" speech, it would have been MUCH more effective than last night's Prime Time Meltdown. :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x721704#722033

[RoyalWickedness]

60. As much as

I'd like to think so, probably not. Zell Miller has never supported the Party of his choice; Check out his voting record here: http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP0616

He has also recently published a book regarding his disenchantment with the Democratic Party.

[ArkDem]

40. Kerry's poll numbers will start going straight up after this hatriot

speech.

[Jo March]

42. Zell is our Pat Buchanan

Remember Pat's lovely speech? Oh, good times, good times.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. Not OURS

Another Pat Buchanan for them.

He can call himself anything he wants. No one would be silly enough to mistake him for a Democrat.

[Touchdown]

44. He could be in the early stages of Alzheimer's

Last night, Mike Malloy got a call from a woman who works in the Carter library, and heard through the grapevine that Zell is in the early stages of Alzheimer's. No proof of that, but it does explain his erratic behavior, his increasing paranoid demeanor and his outburst on Hardball. At 70, he's also the right age, and would explain why a southern Senator wants to retire so early. They usually stick around until they're on death's door (Strom, Jesse, etc.).

If this is true, and if the Repubs knew about this before hand, then they are truly slime. Exploiting the sick for a political cheap shot!

[wadestock]

46. RAH%@#**^^%$#@RAH!!!!$$#%^&*!!!!RAH!!!!!!

WEAPONS ARE GONNA SAVE US.....HA HA HA HA HA HA.....

SEE THOSE BOMBS DROPPIN....SEE EM....SEE EM.....
SEE THOSE TERRORISTS OVER THERE....

HA HA HA HA HA HA
GOT EM...SEE THAT....

THERE'S ANOTHER ONE OVER THERE.....NO WAIT....HE'S OVER THERE
WATCH OUT....DON'T GET IN THE WAY OF THE FIRE

OOOOOPPSSS.....SORRY ABOUT THAT.

[mondo joe]

47. I suggest we all send him some NUTS.

Nuts would be a wonderful gift for him.

And a good news story, if he got enough.

[goldstone]

50. Thank you, Zell!

Our Man Zell! He came through for the Democratic Party at the most important moment of his career.

Let's hope this bitterness stays on the GOP's collective tongue all the way through W's speech.

Tonight, he'll rise from a sea of GOP delegates like
Venus on the halfshell.

Let's hope for the worst...

[spanone]

51. My attitude last night. This morning----Fuck You Zell

[Gregorian]

59. My Zell photoshop, in tribute (didn't know where else to post this)

[RoyalWickedness]

62. Ha ha ha

That's great!!