Slight edge McCain, but he needed a Knock Out.

[abumbyanyothername]

I give McCain a slight win here, and agree with David Gerken that he needed more like a home run.

I thought both candidates were somewhat weak on the opening questions on the economy, although the pundits gave it Obama. They meandered, struggling to find their comfort zone and safe footing. No knockout punches or even strong blows in the opening half hour to 45 minutes.

On Iraq, some body blows were landed, but I call it a draw. This issue comes down to do you want to stay there or not. I don't. I am not worried about an abstract concept to start, made even more abstract by the situation that we are in there, of "losing the war." How can we lose the war? Sadaam is dead. That was the mission. Mission accomplished.

On Afghanistan, which bled over into Pakistan, McCain was at his strongest despite some strong efforts by Obama to throw him on the defensive. Clearly McCain's knowledge of the Afghan Pak border is impressive. I was happy beyond belief to hear McCain state that to some extent we created the Afghan problem by simply walking away after we won Charlie Wilson's war (my shorthand, not his words).

On Iran, we have a clear distinction between one candidate who styles himself an aggressor and one whose style is more engaging and negotiational. Should be already clear which I prefer, but the country is pretty evenly split here and neither candidate scored net points.

On Georgia, the candidates' positions are quite similar although McCain is clearly more comfortable with the topic and rattled off an impressive display of name-dropping.

McCain did an impressive job of framing the closing argument as experience, although the change message has been resonating better on the trail.

Obama held his own and did not get knocked out or even back very far on his weakest topics. I wish he had had more quips for the economic questions, and overall he seemed a little more nervous than I have seen him.

Intrade was trading McCain up about 3 points to the 47 range, while trading Obama down a couple of points to the 54-53 range during the debate, but now Obama is up a half point (for the day) to 56.1 while McCain is down nearly 2 points to 42.0 (although the current bid is above that level). I don't ascribe too much to Intrade.

I continue to believe that turnout will decide this election, and I believe that Obama is finally the democratic candidate that can turn out the youth vote. Similarly, I don't believe that there is as much hardcore enthusiasm for the Republican ticket, and tonight is not likely to change that. McCain's arguments and positions will solidify his standing among older voters where he was already enjoying a nice lead.

Reports are that McCain's snarkiness or condescension toward Obama was turning off Independents (CNN has their biometrics hooked up, I didn't watch on CNN). At the least, I don't think McCain attracted any significantly greater portion of Independents tonight.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. Nope. Slam Dunk Obama. McSnarky was just plain offensive. NT

[Drunken Irishman]

2. I give you a fail.

[Jennicut]

3. No way, all polls except Faux's showing Obama won

[Doityourself]

4. All those words and you are wrong...fail

[crazy_vanilla]

5. wrong! the only edge McTurd had was the wedgie he gave himself

[cali]

6. sorry, you're in the minority. the pundits have virtually all given it to obama as

as have focus groups and flash polls. you're overthinking it. people react largely on emotion.

[casus belli]

7. Whatever. n/t

[Symarip]

8. There's a lot of words in your post.

That reminds me, there's a lot of lights in my city at night.

[YDogg]

9. i disagree with your primary assessment.

[JeffR]

10. Slight edge McCain in Bizarro World, maybe

I hope when you come down that reality isn't too disorienting. PM me if you need advice; I have decades of experience with hallucinogens and heavy-duty pharmaceuticals, not to mention cannabinoids and cocaine.

[BlueIdaho]

11. Stop scoring the points - its not about the points

Its about the visuals and the temperament - McCain clearly lost the "does this guy look and act like a President" test.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Perhaps in the Twilight Zone......

:crazy:

[stevenleser]

13. Undecideds say Obama won, see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7213195

[abumbyanyothername]

16. Great!

Seriously, I'm glad to hear it.

I am behind Obama, and I am glad he connected better with people.

[Stop Cornyn]

14. "skip it'

[Greyskye]

15. I disagree, and here is my evidence:

"I don't think McCain attracted any significantly greater portion of Independents tonight."

Nope:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7210724&mesg_id=7210724

[ProSense]

17. Nonsense. McCain doesn't know what he's talking about

Major Gaffe: McCain said Pakistan was a failed state

McCain's reckless response to Russia - so says everybody

FAIL!

[JeanGrey]

18. McCain did well. I was quite shocked actually, and this should

remind us that this is NOT in the bag. We have to double our efforts and not feel we have this won or else we'll be crying again come election day.

[elkston]

25. McCain didn't "Do Well". He was average on what was supposed to be his knockout subject

Obama held his own AND made a good impression as a statesman. McCain seemed like an angry, marginalized man. There were no huge "knockout" moments, just decent jabs.

Remember, to all the new voters just tuning all, the only thing they've heard is that Obama is too inexperienced and cannot lead. He help allay many of the fears of those fence-sitters tonight.

[JeanGrey]

31. Sorry I stand by what I saw. We need to not

underestimate this man. This election is too important. McCain's experience is what came out.

[Zomby Woof]

19. Take a long walk

Off the Santa Monica pier.

[asdjrocky]

20. You seem to be one of the only people

(That's not a pug) that thinks McTroll won. Polls, pundits and DU disagree.

[PermanentRevolution]

21. I disagree somewhat - details within

Your assessment of the economic questions is pretty similar to my own - both candidates came across as more politicians than leaders, ducking the questions and returning to their safe zones. I agree with the pundits, though, that Obama shaded it. McCain's constant return to earmarks struck me very much as a one-trick pony, that he really had no other coherent answer than "earmarks are bad!"

Iraq, I very much agree was a draw, as the situation really boils down to staying vs. leaving. I liked Obama's answer to McCain's bracelet story - counter one story with another to show that support of military families is not one-sided. But neither one landed a knockout.

Afghanistan/Pakistan I saw as an Obama win. McCain got the name of Pakistan's leader wrong, described it as "a failed state," and seemed to be trying to twist Obama's position to suggest that he would declare war on Pakistan. Obama held his own and pointed out that his stance was one with which the majority of Americans would agree - that, if we have Bin Laden in our sights and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, we will. I suspect that message is a lot more in keeping with most undecided voters - which is the key demographic of tonight.

Iran, I felt, was Obama's as well - but that's because I agree with Obama's stance. From a neutral stance, probably a tie. I've never seen the harm in communication and find the "legitimizing" argument inane. These regimes are going to continue whether we grace them with our "legitimacy" or not. Strongarm politics don't accomplish as much as diplomacy, and I remain committed to that belief. But it's all opinion, and if you favor a hard-line stance, then Obama's not going to win you over. As a side-note, the Kissinger gaffe may blow up, but only if the media does its job.

McCain edged it about Georgia, but Obama's stance on Russia as a whole is better - in my opinion, of course. Cold War mentality was the net cause of many of the world's current problems, and a return to that mindset would be a huge step backwards. But it's hard to know what undecideds feel about that, so...

It's difficult for me to try and view this neutrally, as I'm not. But I felt Obama laid to rest a lot of fears that he's inexperienced. Despite McCain's constant accusations, Obama came across as knowledgeable and composed, very much in command of the facts concerning the issues.

I wish he'd gotten in a few more body blows and really made this a knockout, but he definitely held his own in what was seen as his weakest subject. And I agree with your last two paragraphs.

Anyway, essentially, you think McCain shaded it, I think Obama did. We can both agree that McCain needed more than that, and Obama came out as strong as he went in. So chin up! We still got this!

[Grateful for Hope]

22. Absolutely false

Obama won hands down. The more I think about the debate, the more I am convinced it wasn't even close. McCain came across as a surely, mean, contemptuous, very old man (his voice quivered), and his statements concerning his policy beliefs in all areas reflected his stubborn adherence to the past.

Obama, on the other hand, was majestic. His considerable knowledge on the economy and foreign affairs was very, very evident, and, he was, overall, gracious to McCain -- which couldn't have been easy considering the contempt that McCain so obviously has for him.

[Lex]

23. Undecideds give it OVERWHELMINGLY to Obama.

And that's all I care about.

[Norrin Radd]

24. McCain rambled; we couldn't follow him. He made no points,

offered no plans.

[bevoette]

26. slight edge...down in a van by the river

[Proud Liberal Dem]

27. That sounds eerily similar to how some people characterized the outcome of the primaries

Even though Hillary won on Super Tuesday and was still continuing to win primaries towards the end, she never was able to deliver that "knockout blow" to Obama. Obama just continued on quietly building up his "ground game". I feel like we might be seeing something similar in his campaign against McSame.

[CreekDog]

28. The OP called him David "Gerken"

i don't know what that means but i think it's a funny. :rofl:

[HughMoran]

29. Nah, his trollish demeanor and temperament knocked any good he did to one side

He just was too much of a bitter troll.

[onefreespiritedchick]

30. Hmmm, I disagree with your assesment.

I believe Obama clearly had the edge...whereas McCain did terribly on substance, giving vague answers at times, and was visibly testy. Not the best impression, in my opinion.

[chiefofclarinet]

32. I also disagree

I think McCain's content may have been decently strong. But, he made some gaffes. The one I heard about, but didn't actually see, was the "horseshit" comment. I honestly don't know what that will do.

The one I heard directly was his disdain of ethanol. Any chance of getting Iowa (my home state) went out the window. Minnesota and Wisconsin should be solid blue. Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, Nebraska, and the Dakotas may swing to us. The Midwest does not like a candidate that flatly says corn-based ethanol should stop. Yes, there are problems with the current system; that doesn't mean that we should scrap the whole thing, especially since the organic chemists have ideas on how to turn bio-refuse into ethanol/biodiesel.

The constant gaffe that I saw was McCain's disdain of Obama, especially the continual mentioning of Obama being "naive." Obama may not have the years in the Senate that McCain has; however, he knows what's going on and how to fix our problems.

Who knows what everyone else thinks. However, I think it was a push. McCain needed a big win, and he's going to suffer because he drew.

[Hope And Change]

33. Independents clearly favours Obama!

Check out this link:

http://www.mediacurves.com/

[wind in the willow]

34. Very Concerned

I have a lot of thoughts about what I just heard in the first Presidential Debate but my trained instincts are overwhelming my logical review of the issues discussed in this debate. I am a psychotherapist with over 16 years experience specializing in post-traumatic stress disorder and a lot of that experience is working with US Vietnam Veterans. Based on John McCain’s behavior, demeanor and tone of voice in this debate, I would be extremely concerned if he was in one of my therapy groups. Numerous times during the debate I felt that he was on the verge a melt-down. What I saw was beyond straight passion. This is a man who is mentally and emotionally on the edge and should not be in a position of power. He barely controlled his agitation during the debate and I fear that with the power of the highest office on the planet he would not be able to control the volcano that is obviously inside of him.

[olegramps]

37. McCain appeared to be close to an outburst

I agree with your assessment. For me, this was the most IMPORTANT aspect of the debate. He appeared to have little more than contempt for Obama, if not outright hatred. He was condescending in his remarks and his facial expressions. I believe that it revealed that he fears that this upstart know nothing is beating him. How dare he, I am the king. I am a great military expert because I was shot down over Hanoi and was in prison for five years. He clearly demonstrated what we have been warned about. That he indeed has a vicious temperament and that he had difficulty controlling it in what should have been a civil calm debate of the issues. He is the type that if you don't agree with me, then I will beat the crap out of you. I would have to conclude that Obama certainly appeared to be the type of gentleman that I would have like representing our nation. McCain has many of the same traits as Bush. McCain is a prime example of the privileged brat that is a chronic under achiever that graduated at the bottom of his class.

[Mojambo]

35. No way Iraq was a draw

Yes it does come down to whether you want to stay or leave, but American voters OVERWHELMINGLY want to leave so Obama carries that topic easily.

[depakid]

36. If you're right. we should see a small bounce in the polls

over the next several days. I'm curious myself to see how it played in the rust belt.