I'm confused, so is Obama supporting Bush's bail out plan and McCain is against it?

[alphaq]

What the hell is going on?

[anonymous171]

1. McCain's plan is even worse.

[samuraiguppy]

4. does he even have a plan?

I thought all he had done was criticize the Democrats plan?

[tridim]

10. Yes, no regulation, private bailout. Full golden parachutes for his friends.

Nothing for main street.

Heckuva plan McGimmick.

[alphaq]

8. I see, but...

Despite this aberration, Obama is still my guy. But, McCain's plan supposedly will use private funds for the bail out and Bush's plan asks for $700 billion of taxpayer money!! I must be missing something.

[Every Man A King]

14. Private funds from who? you? nt

[RichGirl]

19. Who is going to provide those private funds and...

does that mean private persons will control the provisions? Privatizing is one of the reasons we are in this mess!!

[seabeyond]

2. bush plan? i am curious on this. are they adding stuff to the plan. cause bush plan

was three pages, no regulations, paying the fat cats. dems are doing more with the plan arent they. putting conditions and stuff?

[Every Man A King]

3. No

Mccain is against the bipartisan proposal that came out of committee.

[MarjorieG]

5. After sounding populist for a couple of days, reverts to deregulation and cutting cap gains tax.

Boehner reps the conservatives, and back McC goes.

[knowledgeispwr]

6. I haven't heard of any Dems (including Obama) supporting Bush's (Paulson's) plan "as is"

[seabeyond]

34. thank you. i keep hearing duers saying supporting bush plan. i am thinking they

are at least adding stuff to it. it was a bunch of nothing

[tridim]

7. Obama is supporting a modified/fixed version of the Bush plan.

Far as I can tell, nobody supports Bush's three-page plan.

[alphaq]

11. Which plan will use taxpayer money? Somebody please explain this to me.

[Every Man A King]

20. Why dont you explain in detail

How to do it without "taxpayer money"

[alphaq]

23. No, why don't you explain....

Why its okay to spend $700 billion tax dollars to fix a problem that greedy corporations have caused?

[RichGirl]

27. It would only be okay if they do it the way the dems want it...

which would mean that the taxpayers would get a return on their money. It's like they are loaning the money and then getting it back with interest. NOBODY wants to just bail out fat cats on taxpayer money.

[Every Man A King]

28. Corporations are by definition greedy

Thats why we have (or used to) regulations and oversight to make sure things like this don't happen. You are for regulating the banking industry right?

[ContinentalOp]

21. Both.

"Bush's" Plan (Paulson's plan really) would cost taxpayers $700 billion with no oversight, no regulation, no accounting, nothing. Just a massive handout to the very crooks who got us in this mess.

The compromise that Congressional Democrats and Republicans came up with would add oversight, regulations, ways to keep people in their homes, etc. to the bailout plan. Obama presumably would support this plan.

McCain's plan is to go for further deregulations, and tax cuts, supposedly as a way to let "private capital" fund the bailout. In other words, the $700 billion would still come from taxpayers but we wouldn't have any interest in any profits, or any oversight or say in how the money is managed. It's the worst of both worlds.

[alphaq]

26. Thanks for that

detailed explanation. Some of the members here jeez. You ask a question, they call you a troll.

[Lithos]

37. Short summary of the House GOP plan

We give the money (via tax credits) to the rich people who are the ones whose greed got us in trouble, remove what little regulation is still there protecting us (deregulation is almost uniformly recognized as the cause), and then hope and pray that trickle down economics will somehow work when it has never done so in the past. The Middle and Lower Class of course are again left to pick up the pieces while the rich get richer at our expense.

Wow what a gimmick on their part.

L-

[SemiCharmedQuark]

40. I'm going to copy that and save it, as you summed it up perfectly.

[RichGirl]

24. The bad plan is using taxpayer money.

The worse plan, McCains plan, is privatizing.

[vaberella]

31. They both would. Except the second plan includes equity shares which means taxpayers get their

money back.

[EC]

38. Both

mccain's plan will still have the government loaning the $$$$$ to the private institutions to purchase insurance derivatives and further tax cuts will take more money from the taxpayers creating deficets.....only mccain's plan doesn't cut executive salary's or give the government any equity. With the bipartisan plan that Obama supports the taxpayers (government) will loan the $$$$ and receive equity, cut golden parachutes and make money, which will cover the interest rates of the loan we will have to take from China to cover the bailout.

[RichGirl]

9. What Obama basically said today...

His view is that something needs to be done and this is the best they can come up with. This plan, like Iraq (he made the comparison) is a bad plan and there are only worse plans...there is no good plan.

[alphaq]

13. Thanks, that analogy was spot on.

[AkFemDem]

12. You mean Bush is supporting the democrats plan, right? You framed that so oddly.

[alphaq]

16. Not really, I thought that tool and his cronies came up with it.

[Every Man A King]

25. Mccain's cronies?

You know.. Old Boys Club... Mccain staff meeting ;)

[vaberella]

35. They came up with the second or third plan depending on how you look at it.

Paulson through it out.

[calmblueocean]

15. Dems are basically coming up with their own plan with oversight, ownership, etc.

The 3 page Bush plan is dead.

The Repubs are coming up with another plan, too, which reportedly involves getting the government to insure mortgage-backed securities, so that they'll only have to pay out for the bad ones, instead of buying everything mortgage-related out there.

[smiley_glad_hands]

17. Bush's 2.5 page plan? NO Obama is not supporting it. n/t

[Median Democrat]

18. Gee, What Happened to The Maverick Voting Against The House GOP? The Maverick Is MIA!

[RichGirl]

33. The Maverick has only one goal...

...to bail himself out of dropping poll numbers. He's just trying to figure out what action he can take that will make him look like a leader.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Every Man A King]

29. Actually

Mccain was for it before he was against it. He will be for it again tommorrow.

[vaberella]

30. I'll explain it, it's quite simple really.

After the near collapse on Wall Street because of AIG; Paulson/Bernanke (Secretary of Treasury/President of Fed, respectively) said the government has to get on board for a bail out. Fine. Bush's Admin of idiots created a 2.5 page bill for the bail out, about 3 days since Friday of last week. The bill had an article 8 which gave away complete control of 700 Billlion dollars to do as he pleases without any regulations or oversight. Plus it did not meet ANY of Obama's provisions below which were stated around Monday or Tuesday of last week, Wednesday the latest. Below are the 6 provisions Obama called for.

Obama did call congress, his fellow Dems and was regularly speaking to Dodd (who wrote the second Bill put by the house) and Paulson/Bernanke. This was confirmed by the others and everyone was aware Obama wanted information and was regularly keeping in touch sometimes once or twice a day while campaigning. Now Obama himself said as much today on the news if you turned it on. McCain didn't even read the first bill that was put on the table this week. That was on Tuesday. You can find a link to that admission online. He actually said he didn't read the 2.5 page bill that was proposed.

Dodd started working on the second Bill around Monday/Sunday or so and came up with one that met 3 or 4 of Obama's provisions. Obama said this earlier today at press conference. 1-3 were met of his provisions and they were working on the fourth one. The other two still need to be rehashed in greater detail. Obama said they when he touched down and McCain deal and he's saying about 1pm this afternoon that nothing was officially complete, but they're nearly there.

After photo-op drama erupts. Repubs go crazy, McCain flip-flops by sort of siding with his people and not bringing any unity. He takes no press conference meetings really but basically threated that he might not be at the debate tomorrow.

At this time, I forget which Repub, Boehner probably or another one said that they won't sign the order they were ready to sign and proposed a third bill.

Basically the second bill is really the first bill with provisions and extra clauses to make sure no one fucks up. So that means there was really one bill, except there's one with corrections. That's the bill Dodd worked on, the President's bill but completely and utterly revamped.

This would be the second bill, or the third bill in my eyes, the one where the Repubs threw out there after McCain would show up. It was a bomb and complete mess.

Paulson automatically rejected that bill and said it wouldn't work. So now their still revising the already revised first bill which is really the second bill after revision, turning into the confusing 4 bill after all revisions.

:D If you're still confused ask.

First, there must be no blank check when American taxpayers are on the hook for this much money.

Second, taxpayers shouldn’t be spending a dime to reward CEOs on Wall Street.

Third, taxpayers should be protected and should be able to recoup this investment.

Fourth, this plan has to help homeowners stay in their homes.

Fifth, this is a global crisis, and the United States must insist that other nations join us in helping secure the financial markets.

Sixth, we need to start putting in place the rules of the road I’ve been calling for for years to prevent this from ever happening again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7136073

[BurtWorm]

32. McCain is playing three card monte with our minds

:crazy:

[TheKentuckian]

36. Just understand the fetal plan McCain may support

if polls justify it or whatever directs him to act, is an even worse idea than Paulson's F- homework assignment because it has less potential to work, will work much slower, robs the treasury, puts ALL the tax burden on the bottom 95% or so, and neatly contains everything crappy that the original does.

Also, understand that they have no expectation this will pass either but want to pretend they are taking the heat off the tax payers.

The Republicans are a cancer on our democracy and simply have to go.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. I'm so confused