Sorry Bill, you're on your own now.

[PresidentObama]

I've tried to defend Bill Clinton at every opportunity.

He was one of my favorite Presidents, and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.

At the Democratic Convention, I thought he laid to rest this notion that he was still bitter about Hillary's loss and wasn't warming up to the Obama-Biden ticket. He even agreed to fundraise and campaign for Obama. While some of you said he was only doing that because he had to, I said he was doing it because he wanted Obama in the White House.

But despite all this, I feel like Bill Clinton is sending mixed signals.

When he gave that scenario about candidate X and candidate Y, I told myself he wasn't talking about Obama and McCain.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

When he said McCain was a good man and was admirable, I said he's being diplomatic and giving courtesy to McCain-Palin as a former President.

I again, gave him the benefit of the doubt.

When you went on 'The View' and talked about Hillary instead and gave lukewarm support to Obama and praised McCain, I cringed.

But again, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Then I saw this, and I can't give him the benefit of the doubt here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-KWVGP1e0M

He praised McCain. Fine. But Palin? Then tells us we shouldn't come after Palin? No way, no how. Too far, Bill.

And finally I heard from another poster that on 'The Late Show' he said McCain was a maverick, but was running in a bad year.

President Clinton, I miss your Administration. I wish we were back in the 1990's.

But you're on your own, jack. You went too far.

If you watch Bill when he talks about the election, the usual fast and smooth speaker looks uncomfortable and often carefully picks his words. He doesn't seem comfortable in giving praise to Obama, and often what he says comes out in a way that is more damaging than it is helpful.

I want to believe Bill Clinton is on board, just still bitter from the primary. If that's the case, get him out of this race completely. Get him off the TV, get him out of the limelight. And let Hillary do the talking, she's been phenomenal.

I will admit I was wrong, and I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Just yesterday I came to his defense, but I can't anymore.

And if he continues to run his mouth, and give the corporate media something to fuel their Obama/Clinton rift story...

Then the DU sharks can have him.

[WI_DEM]

1. sadly, I think you are correct.

He goes out of his way to praise McCain. He says Palin should be off limits and gives very little praise for the democratic ticket. I don't think his ego can tolerate a passing of the torch. I think he still wants to be the #1 democrat and if Obama is elected it wouldn't be. I have much more admiration for how Hillary has conducted herself than Bill.

[Arugula Latte]

2. Wow, Kerry2008, thank you for saying this.

It takes a big person to admit something like this.

:toast: :yourock:

[blm]

3. Amen....for me it took reading his book and his constant defense of Bush in summer of 2004.

I saw clearly then that they were already working for Hillary2008 and Kerry was in their way.

BTW...I do know how it hurts once your eyes open....many of us felt the same and sometimes still do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Agreed

:applause:

[whistle]

5. Bill Clinton being Machiavellian to keep the enemy off balance

...didn't he also say every voter should vote their conscience and that he did not wish to sway any voter. That's what I heard when he appeared on the View

[karynnj]

20. A surrogate AIMS to sway votes

A smart surrogate does it by making a case for the person without appearing to. Clinton absolutely didn't do this. In both of yesterday's appearances it seems that he is mostly arguing it is a Democratic year.

Many Democrats, many with better records and more integrity than BC, went out in 1992 and made the case for Clinton. It is his turn. If he, in his heart prefers McCain, he should either be quiet and go away or support McCain.

[hisownpetard]

43. Yeah, well - that's the thing about most of us Democrats. We DO want to sway voters - to vote

for our candidate, so we can start to remedy all the ills thrust upon us by 8 years of Bushian evil.

[hisownpetard]

6. Yeah, I'm with you. He starts to glow when he talks about Palin and has lots o' love for McCain,

but can barely bring himself to say anything good about Obama.

I've had it with him. I think this election has bent him out of shape (ugh - what a poor choice of phrase here).


:hide:

[nichomachus]

17. Palin is Bill's type of girl --

Hillbilly with pouty lips and that porn actress hairdo. I think Little William Jefferson is doing all the thinking here. Bill is imagining a little hummer (and I don't mean the car) from the VP during a White House visit.

[Balderdash]

7. Another Clinton bashing post to ignore... nt

[scheming daemons]

10. The OP was one of the biggest Clinton defenders yesterday.....

[pecwae]

55. And tomorrow's a different day.

[dionysus]

18. the OP has had clintons back like few others. it's legitimate.

[nichomachus]

19. Another Clinton adulation post to ignore. n/t

[Lugnut]

37. And yet you're still here.

[nichomachus]

45. I have no idea what you mean

I wasn't talking about the OP. I was talking about the post immediately prior to mine -- you might want to have someone explain the concept of threading.

Why would I leave a thread because someone posts a single post?

[Cha]

21. You jumped in where you so don't know

what you're talking about.

[PresidentObama]

22. Yet, Clinton bashing from a Clinton defender?! You forgot the sarcasm tag.

[Egnever]

25. You clearly dont know this poster

this one has been doing flip flops for Clinton for months.

[cali]

29. no kidding. really, er, changable.

[PresidentObama]

61. You're one of the biggest disruptors, I'll take your insult as a compliment

[Arkansas Granny]

40. I've noticed the same.

[PresidentObama]

63. I'm very disappointed in your response. I've always defended Bill Clinton.

I took a lot of heat in the primary in a "I miss Bill" thread when people were attacking him, and I support Edwards at the time--and people mocked me among my fellow Edwards supporters.

[PresidentObama]

62. Nope you're wrong, I've always defended Bill Clinton.

And Hillary mostly, minus a brief period when I spoke out against her tactics in the late primary.

[DevonRex]

31. You obviously have no idea of that poster's history. It was HARD

for Kerry2008 to come to this conclusion. He has defended Bill at every turn. He made a cool-headed judgment after watching all the clips.

He defended Bill yesterday quite strongly. He didn't make up his mind on the issue until after the Letterman show last night.

Bill had TWO appearances on TV yesterday which could have been used to strongly support Obama. He chose not to do so on EITHER show. One might have been okay. But TWO??? Unacceptable.

[hisownpetard]

41. Sorry - it's not "bashing" if the person has done something to earn it.

[NatBurner]

57. way to ignore it, hero.

good job

[Forkboy]

58. How shallow can you get, dude?

[butterfly77]

8. I heard many say that Bill hit it out of the park at the convention...

and I was wondering what speech they were listening to..I have heard Bill speak many times and he seemed to be saying what he had to say just to get it over with...

[karynnj]

26. I agree and disagree.

It was a better more focused speech than the bare minimum needed. He did state a case for Obama - even if it was a case for generic Democrat. The fact was it was upbeat, positive and well done. Was it the best that could be done by Clinton, who knows? The fact is it was more than acceptable and did energize the crowd. Now, I think Kerry's speech which followed blew it away, because it hit theme after theme that Democrats need to hit on McCain, it praised Obama for who he is and what he brings to the nomination and he took back patriotism as a Republican only quality. The NYT calls Kerry's speech (which he wrote) the best Democratic non-acceptance speech in 2 decades - going back to Cuomo's and Jackson's keynote speeches. But, Kerry believes in Obama - and I don't get the feeling Clinton does.

[butterfly77]

39. I do agree about Kerry...

but Bill just seemed to be mouthing the words with little emotion.

[uponit7771]

9. Clinton went AGAINST the message Obama is delivering on McSame...that's what took it for me

[Whisp]

11. I'm sorry, Kerry2008.

This must hurt and I'm truly sorry for that.
You were one of the more loyal (and reasonable!) Clinton fans here so I appreciate your OP - you are a good and honest person.

[Meshuga]

12. I also try hard to give Bill Clinton the benefit of the doubt

But he makes it really challanging. I have given him a hard time and I felt he redeemed himself after his convention speech. But lately Bill Clinton has given me reason not to trust him and to be disappointed. I wish he would just stay out and STFU.

[MadrasT]

13. Had to rec this...

I've followed a similar anguished path as Kerry2008 on this one.

[cilla4progress]

14. "Freudian" interpretation

I believe I have it figured out: Bill expects us - the country, the electorate - to make up to Hillary what he did to her, humiliating her in front of the whole country with the Lewinsky affair. If he could have gotten her elected, it would have capped his guilt over that catastrophe.

I think it can only be that sort of visceral motivation that can result in his uneven support for this Dem ticket.

BTW, I loved his speech at the convention - thought it was one of the best there. He has an incredible skill at distilling complicated issues into understandable explanations.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

53. I've always thought this. I've thought that perhaps they made a pact.

He would work to get her elected due to his personal failings. I think there's some guilt involved as well. However, Bill's own words and actions during the primaries made me question whether he really wanted his own wife to be the president. Bill is a brilliant man; he is a lawyer and knows very well how to parse words and use colorful language. I can't believe that he didn't know how some of the comments he made and his actions would hurt his wife. Everytime he opened his trap, something stupid came out that hurt Hillary. And I truly believe that had it not been for Bill, Hillary may have had a much better chance to be the nominee or the VP. Bill is much more a liability because he only seems to care about himself and his legacy. He speaks so much about his initiatives and his books. He speaks of Hillary as a weapon to hurt Barack. Bill knows exactly what he's doing and understands fully well how the media will jump on every untoward comment he makes.

[karynnj]

15. I am very impressed that you wrote this - I know how much you loved and respected Clinton

I really do not pretend to understand Clinton. Had he been an excellent, note perfect surrogate for HRC, I would be more certain that this was deliberate, as were things in 2002 and 2004. I now wonder if, in fact, he is less able to see the effect he has than we all credit it him with.

[Cha]

16. Yeah, it's Bill Clinton who jumped the Shark.

And, I wish it weren't so..it's surreal at times and hard to wrap my head around. Especially after that fine speech at the Democratic Convention when Everybody was on board for UNITY!

It's sad, actually, and I thank you for your mea culpa. Maybe if he's held accountable he'll snap out of it again?

[Hutzpa]

23. The sad truth is even Hillary

is upset with the man, he is doing himself no favors by
lambasting Obama, his comments are all very well timed
with a touch of snakiness in them.

[Egnever]

24. if he lost you

its pretty bad. You have had your head in the sand about this for a long time.

Having said that, I really just don't care about bill any more. He has proven to be a self absorbed boob much more often than the compassionate smart poll he has been portrayed to be.

It's unfortunate cause he could be a big star in all of this. Instead he prefers petulance.

Hillary has shown much more class throughout this cycle.

bill is yesterdays news and through his actions has ensured he remains so.

[DevonRex]

27. Aww. Luv ya Kerry2008. You had a cool head and didn't jump

to conclusions. But when it became obvious that Bill wasn't helping, you made up your mind.

Thank you.

I didn't respond to any of the BC threads yesterday because I wanted to watch the clips myself before I ran my mouth. And then last night, the Letterman appearance put the nail in the coffin.

We've all been waiting and hoping that Bill would get on board and be a strong advocate for Obama. Now, with less than 50 days to the election, I believe we can say it ain't gonna happen. At least not on national TV. He may say a few nice things at a rally. But on TV, when he could have made a strong case to MILLIONS of viewers, he chose not to. Twice in one day.

I think people pretty much do what they WANT to do. Clearly Bill does not want to help.

[dana_b]

28. yeah - his appearance on The View was so strange to me.

It felt like he, himself, is going through some sort of denial or sadness that the Clinton era is over. It's too painful for him to acknowledge that Obama is a good man, a strong candidate and a will be a very intelligent and good president. However it's not over for Hillary! I still think she'll have a very big position in an Obama administration.

[leftofcool]

30. Let's see, Bill gets called a racist, an adulterer, a scam artist

among other names by Obama supporters, his wife is compared to David Duke by the "not so friendly to the Clintons Obershit" as well as a member of the Obama staff, plus she is called every name in the book by Obama supporters on DU, blogs everywhere, KOS and then some, and you want Bill to do what? Bill Clinton will give what signals he wants to when and where he wants to and if he wants to.

[DevonRex]

34. Why are you bringing up primary bullshit? This is about the GE.

Nothing else. As Bill says, politics is a tough business and you can't let it get to you. Bill should take his own advice for a change.

And if he can't help us win he should just shut the hell up. We fought for HIM for eight long years and even after he left the WH. It's his turn to fight for US.

[WI_DEM]

36. You know we could bring up a lot of stuff the Clinton's said about Obama or gave aid to McCain

during the primaries but this is not the time or the place.

[DevonRex]

38. You're exactly right. And we're restraining ourselves quite admirably. nt

[Carolina]

44. well, Bill is an adulterer!

and he needs to STFU.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cottonseed]

59. Bill's in a presidential campaign now.

If he wants to piss and moan about what he was "called" then he should just shut up and work on his Global Initiative.

[SwampG8r]

70. during the primaries you fall in love

during the GE you fall in line

[AspenRose]

32. I know this must be difficult

not to mention frustrating. :hug:

[themaguffin]

33. Criticizing her only works to distract from McCain so Clintons say something nice then move on

You know if they said anything of substance it would be make too many headlines and be a distraction.

[ClarkUSA]

35. On CNN yesterday, Cheney's biographer Stephen Hayes said that the McCain campaign LOVES Bill on TV..

He said, "They wish Bill would give interviews everyday."

[democracy1st]

66. he's praising todd palin now

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080924/pl_politico/13831

[GeorgeGist]

42. Bill's legacy is done but ...

it won't be over until he puts it behind.

[Lucky 13]

46. Wow. And that means something coming from you...

I know you have been an ardent defender of him for sometime. I was too until this campaign season.

It's heartbreaking once you realize that someone you admired and respected for so long is fucking up so badly. But that's exactly what he's doing. He cannot STAND that Barack is the nominee. He hates Barack. You can just feel it. The praise rolls off his tongue so easily about McCain... but he almost chokes when trying to conjure up something positive to say about Barack.

What this says to me is that this man, our once beloved Democratic President, is putting personal animosity above positions. He's letting his anger for Barack stop him from saying and doing what is best for the NATION. And that is just so fucking sad.

He knows better than anyone that this nation can't stand one more year, let alone four, under the same policies as the Bush administration. Does this mean he would rather see the country suffer, innocent people suffer, because he has a personal conflict? He's letting emotions completely obstruct his judgment. It's confounding.

I wonder if Hillary feels the same disdain for Barack. Does she hate him too and is just a better actor? Or is she just a much bigger human being than her husband? Whatever it is, I give her mad respect for putting personal feelings and broken dreams aside to do what is best for our country. In comparison, Hillary is quite honorable and admirable.

[politicasista]

47. Wow

Thanks for sharing that. My DP (Dear Parents) felt the same way after the South Carolina primary.

[CitizenLeft]

48. I'm sorry too that you had to come to this.

I once loved Bill Clinton too. He has so disappointed me. Hillary, it turns out, is the better politician - she was able to adjust and turn her attention to getting the Dem nominee elected. She is doing her part.

I don't know what happened to Bill. I'll always think that his heart surgery did do some minimal damage, and it manifests itself in what looks like a change in his personality. It's always a risk when a patient is under for that long. I think that's what happened. When a relative of mine had open heart surgery, they did extensive personality and cognitive tests before hand so that they could determine any damage afterwards - said there was a 15% change of brain damage. Luckily there was very little change, but that very little change in a former president during an election campaign can look huge.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

49. I'm so proud of you because I remember just yesterday when you blasted

us for trashing Bill. We were not trashing Bill and we DON'T hate the Clintons. We are disappointed in Bill and his behavior.

You are very brave and have demonstrated integrity here.

Thanks for this. ;)

[jesus_of_suburbia]

50. Bill didn't help Hillary, and he isn't helping Barack.... I too wish he'd go away.

The only Clinton who needs to be seen now is Hillary.

[onefreespiritedchick]

51. After the DNC, I was ecstactic and thought that Bill was finally on board

However, his recent interviews give one the opposite conclusion and comes across as lukewarm at best. I am profoundly disappointed, as I enjoyed the Clinton years during his term and defended him passionately.

[zulchzulu]

52. Wow. That must have been hard to write...

I've recently tried to give him a chance and have felt a little like he's trying to triangulate on the McCain and Palin issue.

Apparently you thought so too. I would suggest we all just let him do what he wants at this point and make sure Obama gets elected.

[grantcart]

54. You weren't wrong for giving him the benefit of the doubt -- you had good reason to do it

and your post today is also filled with reason.


The point I would like to make is that there was reason to give Hillary the VP spot.

And there were reasons not to. The reasons not to have to do with Bill and their complicated relationship.

I feel that yesterday's performance showed that it would have been an error to pick Hillary for VP.

You would always be wondering what the hell Bill would be saying. He would have eclipsed the whole campaign.

And you have to ask what is Bill's motivation. Is he trying to press Hillary even now as a pentance for the Lewinski affair?

Is he trying to show Hillary that he is crazy in love with her and sorry about what happened?


Now we leave the Clinton's and their soap opera behind and join together to win this country back.

Thank you for your earlier defenses and your reasoned approach. I didn't agree with the Clinton's but I can agree with you.

[roguevalley]

56. Bill would ALWAYS have been a complication to the VP for Hillary.

[AtomicKitten]

60. Cheers to you K2008.

:toast:

[democracy1st]

64. K & R Kerry2008

[Occam Bandage]

68. Yeah, I got there about four "gaffes" ago. Oh well. I'd love to see him "out of the race," but

who will bell the cat?

[SwampG8r]

69. hey fella

i saw this come up as i was getting ready for work
i saved it so i could respond later

we have had words and i think we may have patched up a lot of hard feelings
i know the loyalty you have shown the clintons

from my heart
i am sorry that people you respected so much have hurt you

[democracy1st]

74. good call swamp I'm sure he appreciates it

[question everything]

71. Watched him on Larry King and he was great

He explained that winning an election does not necessarily mean bashing the other side, personally.

He worked with McCain, they got some things done together. You don't turn on and trash someone whom you've considered a friend for many years - for no reason. And there is no reason. McCain has not changed, it is just, as Clinton explained, he supports policies which are not for us.

About Palin, he just observed what others have: that there are many small town people in Arkansas and in other places who see Palin as one of them. Also, give credit to McCain to select her and energize the base. He did add that she also energized the Democrats.

[sandspur]

73. It's about who is on your side, who is best for the country, not about

bashing the other guy. It is the complete opposite of the politics of personal destruction honed by Newt Gingrich , It's about NOT making it personal, when the left attacked Palin there was a big well spring of support for her. But if you go around the personal stuff, it becomes OK to like some one and still vote against them. It is saying I can see how you identify when her, but Obama is the guy that is going to make things happen. It is about undermining the "elite" tag that republicans have used so well in the past. Elite becomes another way of saying different. I

David Letterman used a combination of the approaches today, he praised McCain then took issue with what is going on in a fairly harsh way.. If Bill goes on the attack it is too easy for his enemies, well I should day his republican enemies, to use him as a polarizing figure. Mush harder for the republicans to make a case against him when he says Obama is the smart guy, Obama is the guy who will help you.

[Metric System]

76. I actually watched the Larry King interview and I completely agree with you. Anyone who watched it

and still says Bill is trying to undermine Obama has a raging case of CDS. He clearly stated why he wasn't attacking McCain and Palin, and he made the point that doing so may please those who already support Obama but it does little to win over undecideds. Very sound advice. As for the OP of this thread, well, I'd take it with a grain of salt given the poster's history (the movie Sybil comes to mind).

[AZBlue]

72. It's sad to see, it really is.

[secondwind]

75. I'm ready to wait until he starts stumping for Obama in a few days, he

is going to FL, MI, etc.

But I have to agree that I have felt the way you do.

SAY IT AIN'T SO BILL!

[moriah]

77. "She's not going to push those views on others" (paraphrase)?

Hah.

Bill was right that she may have "said" this, but it's certainly not what she's going to do if she gets in power. She is an egotistical control freak to the Nth degree ... and people call Hillary controlling.

But he was right in one thing. It IS a mistake to underestimate the budding Falwell in Barbie drag.