October surprise: McCain's coming stroke on 10/17/08

[SoonerPride]

Dateline 10/17/2008.

**BREAKING NEWS** John McCain has a massive stroke and is rushed to ER. Condition unknown. Doctors say the situation is "grave."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What happens then?

Does the election go forward?

Get postponed?

I fear some sort of "calamity" which forces an "emergency measure" which vacates the election and we get a permanent junta in the Oval Office.

Please talk me down off the ledge.

I had a really vivid dream last night and it wasn't pretty.

[Hugabear]

1. The GOP would just replace him with someone like Romney or Huckabee

I get the feeling that many in the GOP really aren't very thrilled with McCain/Palin.

[SoonerPride]

3. But those names can't be on the ballots that late in the game.

Legally, I don't think you can just say "replace John with Mitt"

Thus the calls for postponement and "we'll get around to having an election sometime next year."

[liberalmuse]

2. I thought about that just this morning.

And that's not something I generally think about. They'd probably run Palin with Romney as VP, or vice-versa. They could not suspend the election, but we've seen that the Bushies will do anything. What a horrifying thought! Luckily, most of the time, dreams are just dreams, and thoughts are just thoughts.

[SoonerPride]

4. But the ballots are locked. Printed. Done.

What happens then?

I don't think you could legally just say "John's out so it's Romney / Palin now."

[scheming daemons]

6. Same that happened with Mel Carnahan in 2000 in Missouri

McCain/Palin would still be on the ballot.

If they won, Palin would be sworn in on January 20th and then would nominate a VP as per the 25th amendment.

[SoonerPride]

11. You are probably right.

But I worry abotu the criminals in the White House.

I put nothing past them at all.

[jberryhill]

19. That was under Missouri's election laws

There is no "federal law" on who or what gets on a ballot or how.

The Constitution leaves the conduct of elections up to the states.

(which, by the way, is why Bush v. Gore was an instance of conservative judicial activism)

[scheming daemons]

5. There is no way to "vacate" an election in the U.S..... stop with the bullshit

McCAin/Palin would still be on the ballot, since the ballots would already be set.


But just like when Mel Carnahan won in Missouri senate race after he died, it would be understood that Ms. Palin would be sworn in as President on January 20th because of the 25th amendment.

[SoonerPride]

7. So the option would be to vote for an invalid/Palin?

That wouldn't cause any controversy.

Would it?

[scheming daemons]

12. Oh.. it would be controversial alright.... and it would probably lead to an Obama massive landslide

[WI_DEM]

8. An election is not postponed, the GOP would select a replacement candidate

[SoonerPride]

13. Well, they may say that, but McCain/Palin would be on the ballot

Then what?

Palin gets elected and gets to choose her VP?

[scheming daemons]

14. Actually, once the ballots are set, the replacement candidate is the VP nominee...

I don't think they could change that.

[jberryhill]

18. ...in each state that permits it

States control the manner in which they hold elections.

The answer to the question is "there are 50 possible different simultaneous answers".

[abburdlen]

9. I don't think you're too off base

Right now the press is openly calling him a liar.
Who long before they start asking if he is senile?
The evidence is mounting that he really, really really isn't up for the job.

I can see them dropping him from the ticket - Palin is attracting bigger crowds than he is anyway -

It may be too late for his name to be removed from the ballot and I don't know the rules for what would happen if something happen to McCain but I don't think postponing the election is legally an option (not that that would stop them)
I could imagine it being announced that McCain will not be able to serve for whatever medical reason and he and Palin have picked a VP to take her spot after she takes over at the top of the ticket. It might get them some sympathy, it might get the press off their backs but I don't think the GOP will win on election day.

[timeoutofjoint]

10. This is rude.

[SoonerPride]

16. I think the republican candidates are rude.

They are like a big middle finger to all of America.

[cjsmom44]

24. RE: I AGREE

This is very uncalled for and rude....please....have some class

[SoonerPride]

25. Class? I think McCain is seriously ill and will die in the next 60 days

Sorry, but I think he's held together with duct tape and bubble gum.


He is unfit for office, both mentally and physically.

He's a broken 72 year OLD man.

He needs to be in a home, one of his seven plush palaces, or a retirment home, but not the White HOUSE.

[Solomon]

26. It's not rude. The post raises a serious question.

The fact that McCain picked Palin in his condition is rude.

[Aristus]

27. In many monarchies, it is illegal and treasonous to speculate on the possible death of the ruler.

We are not a monarchy. We have freedom of speech.

It McSame doesn't want people speculating on the possibility of his death, he should take his wrinkly old ass out of the election.

[cjsmom44]

31. RE: Point well taken

Well put!

[Ikonoklast]

29. Really? In what way is it rude?

McCain is an older man with a lengthy history of serious medical problems. It is not outside the realm of possibility that he suffers a major medical setback within the foreseeable future.

If you feel this has no bearing or impact on the governance of this nation, you are sorely mistaken.

He would not be fit to govern, although elected, as the ballots cannot be changed; he is the nominee of his party.

Palin would become president, by law, if Mcain is medically incapacitated.

[gordianot]

15. Missouri led the way in this, they could run a dead or near dead man.

Any attempt to stall stop the election would be a catastrophic constitutional crisis.

[jberryhill]

17. It's not difficult to grasp, but...

The Constitution delegates to the states the manner in which the states select their electors for the office of president and vice president.

The Constitution does not prescribe, beyond simple principles in right-to-vote cases, how each or any of the states is to conduct its elections, construct its ballots, and so forth.

The Constitution does not give a rat's ass about political parties, as the document itself was not written in contemplation of political parties.



Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.


...
The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
...

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.


All kinds of weird-ass scenarios get cooked up over candidate impairment/replacement, and so forth.

However, it is each state which is responsible for the manner in which its electors are chosen. So who or what can be on a ballot, and when, is up to each state to decide on its own.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

21. Right. In which case, if they so choose, some state EV casters could vote for Romney instead

If that is indeed whom the Republicans had selected and is in accordance with their state laws/constitution.

[jberryhill]

22. Maybe some could if their state law permitted it, but...

I genuinely doubt that any R would garner 270 EV's across a patchwork of 50 different electoral jurisdictions.

It would, however, be the election lawyer full employment act.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. No doubt.

It'd be a legal nightmare, frankly. If you thought 2000 was bad, wait til that scenario plays out (and it probably will someday, though hopefully not.)

[davepc]

20. Doesn't anybody read the Constitution anymore?

Article II

Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

THIS SECTION ADMENDED BY THE 12th ADMENDMENT (see below)Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.6

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.7

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation: — "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


Amendment 12
Presidential elections


The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. * The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/constitution.htm


It's up to the states to figure out who their electors vote for.

[jberryhill]

30. "It's Just A Piece Of Paper" /nt

[LibraLiz1973]

28. Wait. Why does it have to happen on my birthday?

:rofl:

[SoonerPride]

32. um, in that case: Happy Birthday from John McCain