Kick and Rec if you want the Black/White Bullshit off DU.

[Bonobo]

We do NOT need or want or appreciate that crap here. Any of you.

[Skwmom]

1. Agree.

[racaulk]

2. Agreed.

That has no place here.

K&R

[nc4bo]

3. Agree. We've got too much on our plate as it is without the added pork. nt

[maddezmom]

4. kick

[kernelfarmer]

5. amen (NT)

[bunnies]

6. k&r.

[MadrasT]

7. K&R

[Chorophyll]

8. Agreed.

The repugs love our infighting.

:kick:

[Enthusiast]

117. And their operatives generate this shit. nt

[tandot]

9. K & R.

[Hepburn]

10. K&R...n/t

[blondeatlast]

11. It's woman vs. woman and it's Rovian--coming on the day when two of the most powerful feminist group

are set to STRONGLY ENDORSE Obama/Biden.

[Cherchez la Femme]

70. LGBT and women are treated horrendously here

(not by all, not by the great majority, don't get me wrong). As for the latter, from Hillary (extremely hurtful) to Palin to now it's been quite an eye opener & a very unwelcome lesson.

I K & R'd anyhow as race should have no place here either, but I have not seen much (if any) regarding black/white or racism of any sort (except for something vile posted by a freeper poseur who was happily tombstoned muy grande pronto).
but then I don't get a chance to go deep into DU -- just LBN and the Greatest Page.

I do not wish to give whatever was said any additional attention, but I would like to view a sample of exactly what the OP is speaking of;
could anyone please give me a representative thread or two? TYVM

[SoonerPride]

12. Hear hear.

harumph harumph harumph harumph

mumble mumble

[BeyondGeography]

13. Done

[AspenRose]

14. Please read and rec my thread

It's an attempt to counteract this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7084126

[DevonRex]

63. Done. Thanks DesertedRose! nt

[blue2helix]

15. agree

[democracy1st]

16. K & R

[Champion Jack]

17. KICKED

[jakem]

18. K_R

[firedupdem]

19. K & R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blondeatlast]

20. This is the thread that should be kicked above the other two, please.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7082689

[populistdriven]

23. done!

[curious one]

102. done

[H2O Man]

21. Right.

It should be recognized as a divisive tactic, nothing more and nothing less.

[cdb]

22. Aggreed. K&R n/t

[democracy1st]

24. kick

[blogslut]

25. k&r

n/t

[firedupdem]

26. Does K& R take those other two threads

down completely? They are really bad and both need to go. Why are we fighting amongst ourselves? Obama and Biden are our candidates...that's it. What is all that garbage about?

[H2O Man]

28. This thread

is a sincere attempt to advocate unity, and to speak out against attempts -- sincere or otherwise -- to inject race into the DU discussions, in a manner that can only divide people.

[racaulk]

27. Kick

[denem]

29. K&R!

[vaberella]

30. Kick...I'm tired of it all. n/t

[Marrah_G]

31. Agreed: I am sick of it

[Hope And Change]

32. K & R!

[dgibby]

K&R. nt

[Diamonique]

33. k&r

[sazemisery]

34. agreed n/t

[BlueInPhilly]

35. But unless you acknowledge it, you can't fight it

sorry folks - it's real, it's here. I've spoken to so many people who are on the fence because of that.

And FYI - I am not a lily-white person, so this hurts me, but at the same time, gives me the perspective from the other side.

[notaboutus]

58. FOCUS & UNITY

This is not the time to fight. I am not concerned about race I want equal rights not civil rights. I want to be called a black American not African American but this is not the time nor place. We need to be FOCUSED on one thing and that is making sure Obama is the next president of the United States of America everything else is a distraction. While we are dealing with this a republican has taken a whole page ad NY Times page A27 09/16/08 out to the heads of ABC, CBS, & NBC regarding them not covering Obama more negatively. We need to organize all web sites and PUSH back hard with a letter of our own. This is silly season and my only concern is WINNING!

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Yes.

Please.

[Pithlet]

37. Sorry. It doesn't go away if we ignore it.

I don't think racism should be a taboo subject. I can't get behind this. And I can't support shouting "racism" at anyone who dares broach the subject, either, and that's what seems to be happening today. You don't have to agree with what was posted, but I think calling what was posted racist is ridiculous. My two cents.

[nini]

41. agreed

thanks

[Pithlet]

47. Thanks.

I don't see why that thread started such a stink, anyway. It was clearly meant for women voting for Palin, and it was calling them out on their hypocricy. I would hope there aren't too many of them here.

[polmaven]

144. It "started such a stink"

because of the number of times people with avatars similar to mine have been called racists since this whole thing began. It "started such a stink" because of the number of times President and Senator Clinton and all of their surrogates were called racists.

I really don't see why that was posted here...at DEMOCRATIC Underground...! As you said, there aren't too many of them here. I will say there aren't ANY of them here, and the handful that may lurk and read is just that...a handful. It was insulting and, because of the history during the primaries....and, for that matter SINCE the primaries, as a white female, one who is still very proud of my support for Hillary Clinton, but also one who is 100% behind Presi....I mean Senator Obama, I was offended.

I will K&R, because the accusations and threats need to stop. Discussing racial....and gender....and GLBT issues is vital, but what went on here yesterday is far from helpful discussion.

[EffieBlack]

156. What went on yesterday that involved threats, accusations or Clinton supporters being called racist?

Unless I am mistaken, this thread was triggered by the offense that some took at my calling out those white women who claimed to be Obama supporters but switched to Palin with the excuse that they wanted to vote for a woman, because it was and is my opinion that many of those women planned to vote for McCain all along because they would rather vote for ANY white man - even a Republican - than vote for a black person - even Obama - and Palin presented a convenient justification for publicly saying what they planned to do all along. The post was not directed toward nor did it even suggest that it was meant for all white women or anyone who is supporting Obama. And it neither mentioned nor even alluded to Clinton, since she had nothing to do with this.

How anyone extrapolated from that that Hillary supporters or Obama supporters were being called racist is beyond me. Even more puzzling is the vociferous, kneejerk reaction to even the thought that anyone was criticizing all white women, when the title and entire text of the OP made clear in plain English that it was directed only to those white women who claimed to be Obama supporters but were voting for McCain and always intended to vote for McCain.

It's particularly interesting, given how comfortably and casually people, both on DU and elsewhere (especially in the media) reference, discuss, analyze, assess and criticize black voters, our opinions, our motivations, our voting patterns, etc. There's also ad nauseum discussion about "women," as if it includes all women, when the real subject of the discussion is "white women" since most of such discussions have nothing to do with how black women are voting. Yet it is somehow verboten for anyone to actually SAY "white women."

So while something obviously offended you deeply, but the only threats and accusations of racism emanated from those who are accusing people of saying things they did not say and demanding that they cease and desist from expressing their opinions because some others are offended by discussions about race in a political campaign involving the first African-American nominee.

[Balderdash]

168. Maybe part of the problem

is that yesterdays post wasn't your first calling out "white women". I'd be interested to know why you're not questioning white men or should I say "white men" how about Asian women? And the anger at these "white women" whoa, lots of anger but no real plan for changing their minds. They aren't Hillary supporters, they probably aren't even Democrats, whoever these mystery "white women" are that you feel compelled to call out here on DU where a shitload of "white women" are.

[EffieBlack]

175. The real problem is that "white women" seem to be the only words in my post you read . . .

a common occurrence around here.

I did not call out "white women." I called out "white women who supposedly dumped Obama because you wanted to make history by voting for a woman" for jumping over to McCain because, as I said, I don't buy their sudden conversion and believe that they switched their vote to someone who opposes everything that Democrats supposedly believe in because they don't want to and never intended to vote for a black candidate.

If you fall into that category, yes, I was talking to you. If not, the near-hysterical reaction to my observation is very interesting. And, by the way, I never mentioned Hillary or her supporters. It was YOU and several others who tried to twist the discussion into something it wasn't by injecting Hillary into the conversation, not I.

I didn't similarly call out white men or Asian women because there is no evidence that either group switched from Obama to McCain in significant enough numbers to shift the poll numbers after Palin was put on the ticket. For your information, I DID in previous posts note that a significant number of white men shifted from McCain to Obama after the Democratic Convention and offered my observations on the reasons why. I guess you missed that.

Interestingly, people here have no problem discussing "women" (which often is a euphemism for "white women" since the views and votes of black women are usually not factored in these discussions), or "blacks" or "men" or any other group. But for some reason, people get their shorts all in a bunch and go completely off the deep end at the very mention of "white." This is a common phenomenon among majority groups, who, while they are comfortable seeing and identifying other groups in racial contexts, think of the majority as just "people" who should not be so identified. It's fascinating seeing it played out here in such stark relief.

And finally, I have no interest in offering a "plan" for changing these women's minds, since I think it's a waste of time trying to convince bigots to do anything. They'd rather vote for McCain than Obama. Fine - good riddance. But I am looking forward to helping to generate an overwhelming turnout among our untapped voters and demonstrating to these backward-thinking people just how irrelevant they have become.

[Balderdash]

185. You did single out a particular group of "white women"

As a Hillary supporter/ now an Obama supporter you're talking about people that I know and none of the ones that I know are racist. Most of the ones who are Democrats are here and voting the party line. I was angry for a while at the sexism and misogyny that pervaded the MSM and this very place, DU, Democratic Underground while my candidate of choice (which never had anything to do with her gender until she was trashed over it)was called all manner of sexist things. A lot of us were angry and wanted to punish the weasels that did NOTHING to stop the flow of sexism both in the Democratic blogoshere and the MSM. For myself, I was going to sit at home and not vote at all. But I got over that and did so on my own with out any help from my fellow Democrats who continue, to this very day accuse us of racism or being Republicans. I'd be willing to bet that you would be a lot more willing to hear what I'm saying if the shoe were on the other foot. The rest of the white woman are voting the way they are voting for various reason and some of them probably are racists but not all and it's disingenuous at least for you to lump them all in that category with little to no evidence. It may even be racist of you to accuse them in the way that you have.

[EffieBlack]

186. I singled out a group of white women are voting for McCain because Obama is black

If you and your friends fall into this category, yes, I was talking about you. If you don't, there's no reason for you to be so angry since my post had nothing to do with you.

Perhaps instead of accusing me of being a racist for pointing out something that should be obvious, you may want to try to better understand why an honest discussion about the very real issues of race causes you such offense and discomfort.

And if you think that criticizing people who refuse to vote for a black candidate is racist, you don't understand what racism is.

Unfortunately, all too often, some people have a visceral reaction to hearing someone who looks like them called racist - and they immediately lash out at the person who made the observation, accusing THEM of racism. Observing the existence of racism is NOT racist, any more than your observation of the existence of sexism makes you sexist.

[Balderdash]

194. Before the primaries were even over some people on

this board called me a racist because I wasn't onboard the Obama train. Didn't matter that I said that he was actually my first choice but after listening to all of the candidates I chose Hillary. The term "racist" has been tossed around too freely, that's why it rankles. My 16 year old grandson, that I raised is half black and there is no one on this planet that I love more. Obama isn't going to get elected if we cry racism and it's not the real problem.

And I'm not saying that there isn't racism, of course there is, especially among the Republican women that were going to vote for Hillary. But seeing "white women" in your thread title about racism and it wasn't the first, brings back memories from not that long ago where my own fellow Democrats were throwing that word around to try and shame people into voting their way. Not cool! And kind of belittles real racism.

[Pithlet]

183. Sorry. Still don't see why it started such a stink.

Have you abandoned Obama and stated your support for McCain? No? Then that post wasn't directed at you. I think the people doing the dividing were the people throwing an entirely unnecessary hissy fit. It was ridiculous, and it got the OP locked for no reason, and created a big stink for no reason. Totally ridiculous. That post wasn't meant for you, or for me, or for any other white woman who didn't abandon Obama for McCain. This is a totally ridiculous and meaningless fight. To state that that post was a slam at the white women of DU is patently ridiculous. I don't see anywhere in her post she refers to Hillary supporters on DU, anyway. To claim her post was divisive is ridiculous. There are indeed some white women who claim that their support of McCain and Palin is making history. That makes them hypocrits, and I think Effie's post brilliantly pointed out the reasons why. It's a shame it had to get locked. ETA that there could be some backfighting among members and details that I'm missing or forgetting from the great primary wars. If that's the case, then I say some growing up and moving on is in order. But, again, I don't see her post making any reference to any of that mess, so I think some are reading too much into it.

[polmaven]

187. Just how many

"white women", who have abaondoned Senator Obama and stated support for McCain do you imagine are here at DU? I am going to guess NONE! When she directed her post AT these women, and called them out, she was speaking to NOBODY? Bull!

We hear a lot about hidden messages....Well, after so long, and so often being villified for NOT having supported Obama from the beginning, with charges of racism, and more, it can only be natural to be offended by a post that alleges to be directed at a group of non-existent people.

If this had been the first time, maybe. But another poster pointed out that it isn't.

THAT is why it started a stink. And THAT is what needs to be eliminated from DU. This is not the place to be calling out "white women" who abandoned Obama and are going to McCain/Palin....because they don't exist here!

[EffieBlack]

189. You can't possibly be serious!

First of all, you have absolutely no idea who reads these posts or whether the women I directed mine to read these boards or not.

But regardless, people write posts all the time directed to people not likely to be reading here and no one (until now) interpreted them to be "coded" messages intended to secretly insult and demean everyone who reads them. Unless I missed your posts railing against anyone who directed a message to Sarah Palin - who I'll bet doesn't read DU - accusing them of personally insulting you because you are also a woman.

If you choose to dig around through threads to try to find some submliminal message designed to personally offend you, that's your business. But don't expect me to pull my punches because you are prone to seeking drama and controversy.

[Pithlet]

198. There are no rules against posting about people other than DUers.

There never has been. As someone who has moderated here many times over the years, I'm pretty sure about that. People do it all the time. It's perfectly acceptable to do so. There's no reason to eliminate it from DU. If you don't like it when people do that, you are perfectly free to ignore the thread or the poster that posted it. It was clear to me what she meant. She was talking about women who were intending to vote for McCain. Of course there wouldn't be anyone here like that. Exactly my point. Why would anyone here take issue with that? Since there's no rule that one can't post about people who aren't DUers, you really don't have a leg to stand on here. I see no evidence that intent was there to slam anyone who posts on DU, which is why I don't understand the brouhaha.

[Chloroplast]

45. Exactly. We're all adults & should be able to talk things through.

[Raineyb]

49. I can't get behind this either.

Race is a ingrained issued in this country. To pretend it doesn't exist is just putting one's head in the sand and merely electing a black man as President doesn't make it go away either. Talking about race and how it affects how we do things in this country may be difficult and uncomfortable but it should not be pushed under the rug. Nothing improves that way.

Regards

[The Hope Mobile]

69. We HAVE to be able to discuss racism. I could be behind it if we're

saying that no one should make disparaging remarks about one or the other (more than obvious) but racism is definitely still an issue here in the US and to ignore it is contrary to the definition of progressive beliefs.

[SIMPLYB1980]

38. K&R

[Peacetrain]

39. **K&R**Oh for the love of Mike, just pull out a gun and shoot ourselves it the foot

I come in the morning, we are a united party, whaling on McCain and his lot, go upstairs to make calls for work and come back to this.

Just crazy, 4 hours of pulling in harness, is all I ask, 4 hours.. but not us.. noooooo. This is why the republicans can win on pure lies, right to your face.. because they stick together.

But us, not a chance, when we can stick it to each other.

God has to love Democrats, because we sure as heck can't seem to love ourselves some days.

[nini]

40. uh... we can't discuss racism?

Is this a fascist site now?


What we don't need is someone deciding the race issues are off limits because they are difficult to discuss. Yes, let's go back to the 50s where everyone knows their place and it's a dark little secret that lies below the surface.

[Lilith Velkor]

79. We can discuss racism without making broad brush statements about women

can't we?

[nini]

99. The OP was about racism

not women

[polmaven]

145. This one, yes...

but the thread(s) prompting this OP was/were very disturbing.

[Raineyb]

146. One of those threads were spot on

The fact that the local PUMA apologist got her knickers in a knot about it notwithstanding. And it should have been disturbing to see how some people view the actions of others.

Regards

[polmaven]

154. And just why is it that you

call her a PUMA apologist? Because she was a Hillary supporter? Because she was offended by the post after being accused of racism because of whom she supported in the primaries?

Well, then, I guess you would call me a Puma apologist too, right?

The only political sites at which I am registered are here, and a place called...... Oh, what was it again....Oh ...something about some guy named Obama, who is running for something, isn't he?

But I resent having been called a racist for my avatar, I resent President and Senator Clinton constantly being called racist, I resent having been called Nazi because I think it is time to make overt sexism as unacceptable as overt racism, so I guess I'm a PUMA apologist too, and yes...that post put my "knickers in a knot" too. The "white women" whom the poster claims to have been addressing are not here at DU.

[Raineyb]

181. I call PUMA apologist because there never seems to be any end to the excuses for

McLame voters who claim to be Democrats. They're just hurting, we need to understand them and more such rot! What is there to understand in a Democrat who votes Republican rather than vote for the black man? Not a damn thing that doesn't begin and end with racism! There is no excuse for these people yet there are those who endlessly and relentlessly make excuses for them. I call such a person an apologist what do you call them?

You are clearly having some issue with reading comprehension. The OP in question never mentioned Clinton. The discussion was about people who are changing the party they are voting for in order to "vote for a woman" when it was in the OP opinion, and frankly mine too, that they always planned to vote for McLame and their so-called vote for a woman is merely an excuse to do something they always planned to do. No one called you a racist because of your avatar you are making up charges in order to play victim against charges that weren't made. Unless you are one of the people the OP was talking about your twisted knickers are your problem.

As neither President nor Senator Clinton were mentioned in the post in question your complaints certainly aren't valid to the point I made and your resentments on their behalf interest me not one whit. Your efforts to make sexism as unacceptable as racism are doomed to fail as we've yet to make racism sufficiently unacceptable as is evidenced by the amount of racism that we still can't have called out without a stink being up up; but I'm not really interested in raining on that parade. I've got my own priorities.

Regards

[polmaven]

188. Well, then, please

point out to me which members of DU are "people who are changing the party they are voting for in order to vote for a woman". And if you cannot, then exactly why do you suppose it was posted here at all. For the tiny handful of "lurkers" who aren't going to care anyway that they have been "called out" by this OP? Or simply to make more veiled, broad-brushed accusations against "white women" who did not support Senator Obama from the beginning?

[Raineyb]

191. Do you not read before post or do you just pull this shit out of your ass?

Once again you've made accusations that aren't true. Since when does an OP have to specifically refer to any particular DU members in order to be appropriate for discussion? I never said anyone in DU in particular but I am not so blind as to think that the people who are changing party to vote for a woman don't exist. There at least 2 OPs about one such PUMA in GD:P right now. I assumed that the OP was put out there in order to get something out there that was bothering the author. Since when is that not considered legitimate? There was nothing forcing you to either read or respond to that OP and in addition, once you've read it there was nothing stopping you from ignoring it if you couldn't handle it. I personally, thought it was something worth discussing and put my 2 cents in as it were. No one made a broad based accusation against white women. The OP was extremely specific. I doubt that the author of the OP gave a damn whether or not the tiny handful of lurkers care or not. She cared enough to make the point and I as well as a few other people cared enough to respond. It could have been a rather enlightening discussion.

And your indignation about your perception of the broad-based accusation against white women is rather rich considering the extremely broad brush that was used when discussing the voting patterns of black people during the primaries. And there were a lot of people talking about how disrespected women were but oddly enough forgot to include black women in their rhetoric as black women were counted as merely black and their femaleness completely negated. That too would be an enlightening discussion. But it would appear that some are not adult enough to deal with that conversation either.

Regards

[nini]

158. So if someone didn't see that other thread

what should the reaction be to this one?

We're addressing RACISM in this thread which is why I answered the way I did. Using a point used in another thread to answer THIS issue makes no sense at all. Let's keep on topic here.

[Lilith Velkor]

165. Those other threads were the subject of the OP.

Do try to keep up.

[nini]

174. not all of us spend all day here and have other things going on in our lives

IF the OP had made a direct reference/link to that other thread you may have a point - but sadly you don't.

good try :eyes:

[Doremus]

42. Amen to that. K&R

[Arkansas Granny]

43. Agree. K & R

[murbley40]

44. YES!! Yes! Yes!

[vanderBeth]

46. k&r

[cliffordu]

48. yep.

[SeaLyons]

50. K&R

[dccrossman]

51. Kick

[Balderdash]

52. OMG! Bonobo I never agree with you

on anything but I just gave you a rec and now a kick.

[rvablue]

53. I agree, too. n/t

[Dora]

54. K&R

[Kind of Blue]

55. Just checked in

Can somebody tell me what's going on about black/white bullshit?

[AspenRose]

59. Don't ask....

been an ugly morning...

[Kind of Blue]

64. Whoa. Okay. But just if/when anyone feels up to it, please let me know.

[FLyellowdog]

56. me too

[Kind of Blue]

65. Flyellowdog, I think I found it

To white women who supposedly dumped Obama because you wanted to make history by voting for a woman -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7083855#7084115

[orleans]

57. at first i thought you were talking about "the obvious" (black/white)

and i thought: you don't want the obvious on du?

but...then it occurred to me that you might be talking about racial issues.

your reference to black/white isn't exactly black and white

if it is racial--then i agree

if it is the obvious (answer/solution/whatever) then i disagree

on edit: i haven't been awake for very long (my easy excuse for being slow on the uptake)

[chicagoexpat]

60. Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony....

Can't we all just get along?

http://music.yahoo.com/ar-260475-videos--Graham-Parker

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony

Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord, why dont we?

We all know that people are the same where ever we go

There is good and bad in evryone,

We learn to live, we learn to give

Each other what we need to survive together alive.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Oh boo hoo hoo

Some white wimmin who considered voting for Palin got their jock strap in a knot?

Fuck 'em.

[DevonRex]

62. *giggle*

[purji]

75. Agree!

Fuck 'em

[Mongooseflies]

66. no room for that shit on this team

no how. no way.

[ChiciB1]

67. KICK! n/t

[Fresh_Start]

68. totally agree

thank you

[Kajsa]

71. Absolutely!

:kick:

[happygoluckytoyou]

72. YEAH......the Republicans believe GOOD NEIGHBORS come in all colors---->

white, peach, off-white, pale, cream, ivory, light tan.....

[Raschel]

76. McCain's divisive campaign

Exactly. It's hard to ignore racial issues when McCain is clearly running a racially divisive campaign by appealing to only Whites with redneck Palin and family, and appearing at stopovers in small all White shops and airports, Nascar and Sturgeon.

What the heck, he even hides the daughter.

[Auggie]

73. K&R

[JFN1]

74. Agreed

There is no place for racism in politics - we've got to grow up sometime...

[Raschel]

77. There is no place for racism in politics

McCain and Palin are the ones who need to hear that.

[Fearless]

78. Ignoring race does not fix the problems that arise from it.

We are all different people and our differences should be openly shared and free from criticism. I assume it's the latter you speak of. But to remove race from politics is to fool ourselves. The two are inextricably linked.

[democracy1st]

82. hell the election is Nov 4th,we better be worrying about the GOP

they are trying to disenfranchise voters,f...k this kiddie sh..

[Fearless]

131. Indeed

[gademocrat7]

80. k & r

[anitar1]

81. K&R n/t

[bbilick]

83. I agree, just the facts...

I agree, just the facts...

[ann_american2004]

84. did something happen?

did something happen in another thread? I'm oblivious. But yes. racism is unacceptable and so is gender bias (just dont lump us all together with Palin).

[krawhitham]

85. It is not BS, he would be up 20 points if he was white

sad but true

[pnwmom]

116. Kerry wasn't up twenty points. Even Clinton wasn't up by 20 points. n/t

[polmaven]

142. The OP, however, was referring

to black/white infighting and accusations here at DU.

[renie408]

86. I don't agree, so no K&R from me.

I think people should be able to express their opinions on race. And then we are free to express our opinions on their opinions.

[renie408]

87. dupe self delete

[Celeborn Skywalker]

88. Sorry.

Racism isn't going away anytime soon and it needs to be discussed. Sweeping it under the rug will not help anything.

[jonestonesusa]

89. What black/white b.s....?

And who is the royal "we" you are referring to in your post? I have no idea if you are referring to particular threads, particular ideas, or particular posters.

Trying to dictate to others what they can and can't say is instigating division, not preventing it.

[H2O Man]

96. I once knew

a woman who raised goats. She said that goat milk was soothing.

[ExPatLeftist]

163. Word.

The OP makes no sense, and the audacity of some to speak for all of DU just boggles the mind...

[anniebelle]

90. Agree!

[liberal N proud]

91. K&R

[spag68]

92. race and gender

have nothing to do with intellect or intelligence. Neither have any bearing on progressive thought. I personally think that the rethug trolls instigate much of the baiting that is offered. Pay no attention to it,someday we may look back and wonder at the waste of space such discussions take up.

[Cha]

93. Thanks, Bonobo, not that it will change but this election

has nothing to do with Black and White and everything to do with the Intelligence, Determination, and Veracity of Obama Biden's campaign.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

94. Oh yeah. On accounta we're such a post racial country now and all.

:eyes:

[polmaven]

148. There is certainly still

racism in this country....as there is sexism and homophobia....but shouldn't DU be a place to come where we will not be accused of being racists because of whom we supported in the primaries? It happens A LOT here!

[EffieBlack]

157. Please cite where you or anyone else was accused of being racists because of whom you supported

in the primaries.

Please be specific.

[polmaven]

164. Well, since you are, I'm sure, well aware

that we have very reliable mods on this board, the offending posts were deleted, so, no, I cannot "be specific". You will have to take my word, along with the words of several of those who replied to that post, that it happened. We have been told that, since Hillary and Bill Clinton are racists, we must be too. We have been called PUMA, troll, Republican, and McCain supporter if we continued to show Clinton avatars.

I was even called "Nazi" because I had the temerity to say that I think we should make overt sexism as unacceptable in this country as overt racism is.

If that isn't good enough, well, that's just how it is.

[EffieBlack]

166. Please link to the thread where this occurred.

I read this board pretty thoroughly and haven't seen such accusations recently. But if someone did call you, Hillary, Bill and their supporters racists, is that a justification for demanding that no one else on DU discuss race?

[polmaven]

169. I really don't think

the OP was "demanding that no one" on DU "discuss race"! I believe what the OP is asking is for an end to the "bullshit". The charges and accusations that were flying around yesterday were "bullshit".

I did not say the accusations were recently. Since the Convention, I have not personally been called those names. But during the primary especially, and shortly thereafter, it was not uncommon. No, I cannot link to threads where it occurred. I haven't bookmarked all of the insults thrown around. But obviously, you don't believe it, and you are now insinuation that I, and several other Hillary supporters, are liars, so I don't believe I will be responding to any more of your responses....Have a good rest of the election season.

[EffieBlack]

172. So were the charges and accusations yesterday or months ago?

In one paragraph, you said they were "flying around yesterday." In the next, you said they didn't happen recently, but occurred in the primary.

So what "bullshit" was the OP asking for an end to? Something that occurred months ago? And if it occurred yesterday, why can't anyone cite to it?

It sounds to me like several people here overreacted outrageously to a discussion yesterday that included neither accusations nor threats, as you have claimed, but just made those people uncomfortable for some reason. That is hardly sufficient rationale for starting a thread demanding that all discussions about "black/white issue" be halted immediately.

[polmaven]

178. I had said I would not respond to

any more of this from you, but I really do need to say that I do NOT think you are as dense as this post makes you sound. Maybe you want to step back, take a deep breath, and think about it a little.

This really is the LAST of your responses I will be answering.

[EffieBlack]

179. In other words, you can't answer the question or explain your inconsistency

Thanks.

[Balderdash]

173. You're kidding right?

Unfreaking real. The shit was rampant and many Hillary supporters had to leave and shut up and get over it. Maybe because it wasn't directed at you you didn't see it but it was every where.

[EffieBlack]

176. The poster said this occurred yesterday. Please cite to it

If, on the other hand, you are talking about something that happened months ago, why all the righteous indignation today?

[polmaven]

182. Astonishing, isn't it?

:shrug:

Some of the replies given to some of my other posts are absolutely outstandingly dense. The poster quite obviously does not WANT to understand, and is playing dumb. I'm quite sure this poster is not as detached from reality as these posts appear.

[maxpower]

95. Agree K/R

[greyghost]

97. Sure, lets bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

:eyes:

[elkston]

98. Racism. We know its out there, but what can we do?

Obama cannot change his skin color, nor should he.

So all we can do is continue to get the word out, bolster his efforts, and attack McCain with the truth!

There are enough people who will listen and a few who might be prejudiced in personal matters, but objective enough to see that Obama is the best choice this time around.

So lets just drop it and get on with things!

[timeoutofjoint]

100. Thanks

[Serial Mom]

101. K & R

[bertman]

103. Bonobo, I have no idea what you're referring to. There are probably 500 posts a day, so

maybe you could narrow down the "Black/White Bullshit" reference to a particular thread. Then I'd be able to decide if your thread deserves a rec.

Thanks.

[Expedition924]

104. agreed

agreed

[2Design]

105. if you cannot discuss here where can you discuss it - this is suppose to be somewhat safe

environment - this is where the rubber mets the road and we get through the differences - otherwise you are being like palin and saying we can't talk about that - it is a fact there are major black/white issues in this country that need to be balanced for the greater good of all people

[spelldmilk]

106. K&R

[emilyg]

107. Agree.

[rhett o rick]

108. Forgive my ignorance. What exactly do you want to censor from discussion on DU?

As a liberal, I am offended (lol not really offended as liberals appreciate a good controversial discussion) that there would be limits placed on DU discussions. Remember you always have the ability to ignore posts you don't like or agree with.

[shadowknows69]

109. I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE YELLING!

Really, I must have missed it. Link?

[Jackeens]

110. Kickety Kick

[Fire1]

111. What happened here??????

When I went to bed last night, everything was FINE!!!! I come home from work, click on DU, and what do I find?? discussions on RACISM????? I just left a website for this very reason! Please don't do this!!!

[Fire1]

112. Ok, I clicked on the 'shadowknows' link and I don't get it.

Will somebody please explain to me where the 'racism' come in?????

[Number23]

113. I have no idea what's going on either

There is no reference beyond the "black/white BS" whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

I've searched and not found anything. I don't get it. The issue was important enough for the OP to start another thread about but not important enough to at least give a passing reference to what happened.

[Skittles]

114. how about you explain what the f**** you are talking about

we don't need nonsensical crap here either

[L0oniX]

115. K & R ...sorry the font is in black and on a white background.

:evilgrin:

[NorthwestNut]

118. K&R

[NorthwestNut]

121. Ah hell

wrong thread.. x.x

Meant to K&R another, blah.

What do you mean by "black and white"?

Race or opinions?

[lady raven]

119. Agree n/t

[Danger Mouse]

120. i don't understand.

[blondeatlast]

123. Big dust-up between two DUers this morning with competing

threads; each one a diehard of one of the final primary candidates.

I think one might have flamed herself out; I'm not sure.

You really don't want to know.

[Danger Mouse]

125. Ah, I saw the locked threads. Ugliness. Doesn't help.

I agree.

[OneGrassRoot]

122. Wow, someone needs to fill the rest of us in, 'cause this is coming across....

really shitty without context.

If it's people on DU calling one another racist, then I agree.

If you're talking about not discussing racism in America, I don't agree.

We don't need to make the campaign about race (even though I believe it comes down to that) -- and it certainly is, absolutely 100% best for Obama to stay away from it -- but to make it a taboo subject to be discussed here as it impacts our society seems...not cool. At all.

[blondeatlast]

124. See my reply just above this. You probably don't want to know. nt

[chascarrillo]

126. Agreed. White folk shouldn't have to feel threatened by those negroes.

[Raineyb]

143. Apparently they shouldn't have to be subjected to how some of the shit they do appears to us

either.
:sarcasm:

Back to the sand goes the head it would appear.

Regards

[polmaven]

149. That was totally unnecessary

and exactly the type of thing about which the OP is referring.

[Historic NY]

127. I'm sick of the Racist BS...if your can't see your way clear then go

to hell....its 2008 not 1860....i even have Repuke friends that say the same, imagine that.

[bridgit]

128. k&r'd...

:kick:

[99 Percent Sure]

129. Right on. Serves absolutely no purpose; only divides when we should be uniting. NT

[EffieBlack]

130. Now that you've decreed any discussion of "black/white" (aka "bullshit" and "crap") to be off limits

on this message board, in order to make sure that no one steps out of line again and offends your political sensibilities, perhaps you could provide a list of what else you believe is and is not acceptable for the rest of us (aka "any of you") to discuss here.

:sarcasm:

In the meantime, since you have not defined "black/white" "bullshit/crap" or explained why a discussion of it seems to cut you so deeply or offered any basis for your belief that you are in any position to dictate to anyone else what should be discussed on a political message board, you will probably find that people will continue to write about whatever they choose to write about on this board. If you and anyone else finds this particular topic so upsetting, maybe you should just ignore it.

[lonestarnot]

132. Hell yeah! Get it outta here!

[Tindalos]

133. I missed whatever happened

and, by the sounds of it, I'm glad I worked late today. We can't just ignore racism
and I don't think anyone benefits from ignoring it. OTOH, decisions should be based on
reason and intelligent thought, not on artificial constructs like race.

[bjobotts]

134. Don't even know what the hell you're talking about.A headline without reference

[bjobotts]

135. Like just suddenly saying"K & R if you want the child porn Off DU"???WTF

[knixphan]

136. missed it...

But if it had to do with 'Primaries aren't over' stuff... Well, Primaries are over.

Let's concentrate on fighting the pugs.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

137. This is Your Nation on White Privilege

since you brought the subject up
http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/this-your-nation-white-privilege

[bridgit]

160. since you brought it up - D.L. Hughley: 'White liberal guilt' keeps Obama jokes at bay

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/smallscreen/news/article_1426300.php/D.L._Hughley_White_liberal_guilt_keeps_Obama_jokes_at_bay

the last unproductive connection to be made that the right always alludes to, is that the left only does what it does out of being guilted into doing it. it *is* important to drop some matters to the ground right where they are. if the lib/pro left continues to be framed as a group unable to think freely but is instead jerked from issue to issue by misplaced guilts and/or ethereal matters; then republicans will step in as they have always done with their *we're the only adults in the room* gibberish that we all know to be untrue...sadly, it just happens to win elections

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSlayer]

139. Hi. What the hell are you talking about?

Your headline is rather vague.

[Revlon10]

140. kicked and Recommended.

kicked and Recommended.

[OakCliffDem]

141. K & R

[itzdaun]

147. kick

[islandmkl]

150. it is so obvious...just like you have explained it...there is no gray in any of this...

it is all in Black & White...

[OneGrassRoot]

151. I sure as shit don't want to start another thread, especially since...

I'm not completely clear what is being requested in the OP. Is it no intense discussions about racism between DUers or no intense discussions about racism in the electorate?

In researching the history of both parties and how things got so turned around, so much hinges on the 60s and the Civil Rights movement. That's when, historically, lower income whites in the South switched to the Republican party.

And, it was the 70s when many started to complain about the whole "welfare queen" and social entitlements.

We are always asking, "Why do the vast majority of people vote against their best interests?" I've been delving into this intensely on a personal and academic level the last few months, trying desperately to understand.

Bottom line, it is my strong personal opinion that it comes down to racism.

Therefore, for me personally, discussing the election and potential voters without referring to this aspect of our society is challenging, as it is there. Big time. I'm not saying it's for the campaigns to discuss, but as we interact with others throughout our daily lives, it is an issue, one which -- in my humble opinion -- must be confronted.

Is this type of discussion what some of you object to here on DU?

[Bonobo]

159. It is not worth replying but...

Since so many have misunderstood my post.

There were some posts that were nothing short of disgusting earlier. I do not want to advertise them.

And no, I do not have the power to shut down conversation on DU, nor the power to censor anyone -some idiots seem to think that was what I was suggesting -or at the very least they want some attention or to use my post to make themselves look like CHAMPIONS OF FREE SPEECH. Fuck 'em.

[OneGrassRoot]

167. To me, your reply is greatly appreciated.

I knew there was something that triggered it, but I never found those threads, so I was lost as to what was being agreed upon.

Thank you for clarifying. :)

[datasuspect]

152. i agree, absolutist and dichotomous thought should be forthwith banished from DU

[mcollier]

153. We Can Yes We Can - UNITED

Hello Team,

I have written a song in tribute to Barack Obama - "We Can Yes We Can"....

America is beautiful! Here's one reason why - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSDjd3BGng

Please take a look. I hope it inspires you.

ATTENTION... Your help is urgently needed over the next 2 months to encourage voter registration and getting out the vote on election day, as well as passing along videos like these as much as you can...

Thanks for your support...

Best Regards,

Marvin Collier
York PA Obama TEAM 8

[bdamomma]

155. kick

[lelgt60]

161. There are lots of good reasons to point out racist statements...even here

Imagine we could point out a possibly racist statement without the immediate conntation that the person making the statement was always racist or evil...

I don't know about other countries or age groups, but if you are white and grew up in America anytime before 1980, you must have been exposed to a variety of situations which would indoctrinate you with racist thoughts. I kind of regard it like alcoholism. It means you have to watch yourself. And it helps to have others help you watch yourself because sometimes you aren't aware of it. But nobody is going to respond kindly to being called a dirty stinkin' alcoholic. More importantly, their behavior won't change, which might certainly cause harm to others as well as themselves.

If there are white women who won't vote for Obama because he is black, but are claiming not to vote for him because he is not Hillary, then it's perfectly reasonable to point that out and suggest they rethink the real cause their position. Of course if you want them to change their position, you have to do it nicely.

[ExPatLeftist]

162. I had no idea what this OP meant when I read it...

...and only reading the comments gave me an idea of even the topic.

Seriously, why would anyone rec an OP that says absolutely nothing? "Black/White bullshit" - meaning viewing the world in black and white (that's what I thought at first, because some of the black-and-white thinking I see here really bugs me. But no, this post is more an example of that thinking rather than fighting against it...) ? Racism (but then, I would think that "racism" is easier to type and more explanatory than "Black/White Bullshit".)? Photos in black and white? The computer game? The black and white borders on the website (removing them would certainly be taking "the Black/White... off DU")?

Seems to me that this OP made no point and no case - and yet tons of people recommended it... I don't get it. This post seems to refer to some ongoing battle, but not a single reference in the OP, and no link to the thread to which it MIGHT refer.

Once I (sort of) figured out what the topic was, I then realized that there was no point on that topic. It seems to be simply a demand to either ban all the "Black/White BS" or make everyone ("Any of you") not post on the topic, which appears to be race. How do YOU define bullshit? IMO race is a topic that needs to be discussed. But then, I am not sure what the "bullshit" refers to, so I cannot make an estimation of the point of the post, and therefore cannot even come close to "taking sides".

It would be nice, IMO, if OPs were such that people might have a clue as to what they refer...



On a side note, as mentioned above, I would like to see the black-and-white THINKING stop here (though I am not suggesting a ban) - that is to say, demands (like this one) from individuals that seek to homogenize thought here on DU. I understand the need to keep out freepers and so forth, but I do not see the need to shut people up - nor do I understand the arrogance of those that would seek to tel everyone else what topics may or may not be discussed on DU. One person demanding that everyone else follow THEIR convictions is inherently undemocratic.

Also, I thought DU accounts were for individuals - to what "we" do you refer?

[Bonobo]

170. Some people are busy. Sorry you wated so much time, but it was your decision.

Your time you wasted.

At the time, the brevity of my post was countered by its timeliness. It gave people watching a vicious and racist DU battle from the sidelines, the ability to stand out and say they did not want to see any more of such behavior.

So I think the OP had a value despite your opinion.

[EffieBlack]

177. What was the "vicious and racist DU battle" you are referring to?

Why not simply link to the threads so that people will know what you are talking about?

I suspect you are talking about this thread and, perhaps, refuse to cite to it because it doesn't include the kinds of things you claim it did. If that's not the case, please offer a link to another thread to which you were referring.

FYI, please note this thread was locked, not because of the OP, but because of the way some people reacted to it . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7083855

[Bonobo]

180. It was not that post, but in fact a post that was a response to that.

[EffieBlack]

184. Interesting - the only accusations of racism I saw in the responses

were those accusing me and those agreed with me of calling all white women or Hillary supporters racist, which, of course, we did not do in any way.

That being said, it seems to me that starting a thread such as this one with the OP you posted is a pretty disproportionate response to a response posted in a locked thread. And the fact that you did not explain that you were responding to one post in a previously locked thread led many to believe that something much worse and more troubling had occurred on the boards.

[ExPatLeftist]

193. It would have taken you a few seconds to throw in a word or two of description or a link...

:eyes:

[Starry Messenger]

196. I think that's actually against the rules.

Continuing a flame war by dragging locked links over to new thread is a lockable if I recall.

[EffieBlack]

197. Continuing a flame war period is against the rules, whether a locked thread is linked or not . . .

There certainly were plenty of cryptic references to it - which only served to allow the OP and others to distort and mischaracterize the original posts. Including a link would not only have been the honest thing to do, it would have likely immediately diffused the debate since it would have enabled people to see where the real bullshit lay.

[Starry Messenger]

199. ok.

I was just pointing this out to the guy I was replying to.

[Mobius]

171. Ignoring the racism going on in this election

Is a HUGE mistake of mythological proportions. It only helps McCain.
No rec from me. Free speech is not something to be chucked to the wayside, and you will get no rec from me.

[I LIKE IKE 61]

190. ___

I hope MY comment about "Obama would be 10 points ahead if was white" has not caused all this!!! I was just trying to help. Racism has no place here,but also loyal Obama supporters keeping heads in the sand over what could likely be an Obama defeat in November does not help matters either.

Just look at the map and you clearly see what he is up against! Red all over. Its getting worse. In areas with "red neck and farmer" types. Go ahead and stick your collective heads in the sand!!! If no bounce from first 2 debates Obama-MCCain and the V.P. debate we could lose the election. Deal with it. I'm hoping Obama scores knockouts in the debates but I'm not sure its going to happen.

Map tell the story. Bubba and his ignorant pals in hillbilly states do not want the "black dude":

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

McCain ahead in the elctoral college?! With the ecconomy like it is?! The map tells an ugly horrifying story if you look close enough!!!

[lady raven]

192. kick. n/t

[Imagevision]

195. K&R!