Re: MSNBC

[H2O Man]

(Note: On another thread this morning, several of us were discussing some frustrations with the reporting on MSNBC. One of my best friends on DU suggested that I use one of my reponses for an OP. I hope that it may be of interest to other DUers, and explain some of the recent dynamics on MSNBC.)


The best model for understanding what is going on is what took place during the Plame scandal. Those who want good sources of information should look to: (a) pages 265-268 of "Hubris," by Isikoff & Corn, and (b) the documents the prosecution introduced during the trial of I. Liar "Scooter" Libby.

The vice president and Libby were furious with the reporting Chris Matthews did on Hardball. They had Paul Wolfowitz contact NBC/MSNBC to claim that Matthews was "anti-Semitic." This, of course, was an ugly charge, which luckily was not considered accurate by management. Hence, Libby called Tim Russert, who he mistook for being Matthews' boss. Libby made clear that he was speaking for Cheney. Russert passed his complaints on to NBC president Neal Shapiro, who responded, "Hey, this guy is still the vice president," and ordered Matthews' executive producer to have Chris "throttle back a bit."

During the Libby trial, where he was convicted on five felony charges, Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald documented Cheney and Libby's preoccupation with Hardball, and their efforts to silence Matthews.

The current operation to silence the honest journalists on MSNBC is being coordinated by John Bolton, who is the neoconservative "point man" on the McCain campaign, and the OVP. They have made their efforts appear to be not merely the work of republican leaders, but a grass roots effort, as well. Hence, we see Mika leaving her spine at home; Andrea Mitchell attempting to be "objective" by attacking Obama; Todd and (sadly) David Shuster holding their tongues; and a greater platform for republican voices. Onle Matthews, Olbermann, and Maddow dare to speak the truth. Chris is considering leaving MSNBC relatively soon, anyhow, to run as a democrat for political office. Keith and Rachel are simply honest people, who will always try to tell the truth as they see it.

DUers should be e-mailing MSNBC to express support for the hosts of these three evening shows.

[spanone]

1. k&r

[maseman]

2. And the two highest rated shows?

Olberman and Rachel. Go figure.

[pinto]

3. Thanks for the background. *anytime* there's an obsession with

specific media personnel from an administration, you know it bodes no good. Nixon's team showed that only too well.

[H2O Man]

5. The Nixon model

is a perfect example. It is also the father of the Cheney model. Small world!

[hootinholler]

42. Small wonder

That's exactly where he learned his technique from.

-Hoot

[Bette Noir]

46. I'd be proud to be on the Bush/McCain enemies list

if they hadn't eliminated habeas corpus and "legalized" torture.

Instead, I'm afraid.

And donating as much as I can afford to the Obama/Biden ticket.

[blondeatlast]

13. So true. I read about that in "The Republican Noise Machine" by David Brock.

That's a book I highly recommennd DUers read.

[DeeDeeNY]

4. They also fired Phil Donahue for being too liberal

[H2O Man]

6. Yes, they did. n/t

[krkaufman]

74. Olbermann recently said that Donahue's show was cancelled because of ...

... the high cost of having a live audience for a show.

I don't necessarily buy the rationale. I'm just reporting what Olbermann said.

[madwivoter]

7. Thanks for posting H2O Man

K&R

[Captain Hilts]

8. Matthews and Olbermann "speak the truth" if you agree with them.

The others lie all the time.

Maddows is too new.

[H2O Man]

10. Cheney and Libby

certainly didn't "agree" with Mr. Matthews. I don't think it was due to their overwhelming concern that the truth be told.

[Me.]

37. You Really Had To Be On Plame Watch

To realize how Mathews stepped up, starting with the call to Wilson to warn him about Rove. He was the reason Russert kept getting calls of complaint from the OVP. Also, I'm sure you recall how Matalin tried to set Mathews and Russert against each other.

[H2O Man]

39. Oh, yes.

There were even snakes on the internet, attempting to convince democrats that Mr. Matthews was their enemy.

[Me.]

40. That Was When He Began The Emancipation We See Today

and has led to him being pulled from the election anchor desk

[hfojvt]

53. Tweety has never been that popular on DU

Nor is he respected very much by Bob Somerby of the Daily Howler. I personally saw him on the Tonight Show saying that he hoped Giuliani would be elected President. This was early in the primaries.

So I am hard pressed to think that Mr. Matthews is a friend.

[H2O Man]

54. Right.

Many DUers dislike Mr. Matthews. There are a number of reasons for that: some good, and some bad.

Early in the primary season, many of the "experts" in DC were convinced the contest would be Rudy 9/11 vs Senator Clinton. As a NYS resident, I would have welcomed such a contest, because I know that Senator Clinton would have defeated Rudy. For a variety of reasons, Mr. Matthews does not have a high opinion of either Bill or Hillary Clinton, and he mistakenly believed Rudy could beat her in an election.

I have no problem in saying that I am not entirely objective in my view of Mr. Matthews. One of the things that I have been most interested in over the past five years is the Plame scandal. And Mr. Matthews played a role that, while many DUers do not appreciate it, resulted in Ambassador Wilson quoting a phone conversation with Chris on the first page of his book, and Valerie Plame using a quote from that same conversation for the title of her book. The Libby trial provided a large amount of evidence that documented how the OVP considered Matthews an enemy. For those reasons, I like Chris Matthews.

There are other reasons, as well. But I understand and appreciate that others think and feel very differently than I do.

[Time for change]

94. Somtimes it seems as if Matthews is two different people

I think that Matthews has been terribly unfair and grossly unprofessional towards Obama at times:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5699394

Here's Matthews criticizing Obama's bowling score:

Here’s a guy trying to break into the white ethnic voting crowd…. and none of us has ever done a 37, I think it’s fair to say… The fact that he’s good at basketball doesn’t surprise anybody… But the fact that he’s that terrible at bowling does make you wonder.

And here is Matthews and Shuster lambasting Obama for his preference for orange juice!

MATTHEWS: He’s not good at that – handshaking in a diner… Barack doesn’t seem to know how to do that right… What’s so hard about doing a diner? I don’t get it. Why doesn’t he go in there and say, “Did you see the papers today? What did you think about that team? How did we do last night? Just some regular connection?

SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."

MATTHEWS: No.

SHUSTER: He did. And it's just one of those sort of weird things. You know, when the owner of the diner says, "Here, have some coffee," you say, "Yes, thank you," and, "Oh, can I also please have some orange juice, in addition to this?" You don't just say, "No, I'll take orange juice".

MATTHEWS: You don't ask for a substitute on the menu.

And here is Matthews criticizing Obama for not being a "regular guy" (i.e. white and uneducated):

Let me ask you about how he – how’s he connect with regular people? Does he? Or does he only appeal to people who come from the African-American community and from the people who have college or advanced degrees?

So, when you talk about the good things that Matthews has done -- and I don't disagree that he has done some good things -- I have to say that it creates a degree of cognitive dissonance in my mind (and I'm sure in the mind of many others as well) that is difficult to handle.

Anyhow, thank you for the low down on MSNBC. And thank God for Rachel and Keith.

[rpannier]

105. I lost interest in Matthews over his 'relationship' with Tom DeLay

Tom DeLay considers Matthews a 'friend.' and Matthews feels likewise about DeLay

He has said he doesn't believe DeLay has ever done anything to undermine the Constitution or the rule of law.

Matthews was also one of Bush's biggest apologists and cheerleaders until it became the dam burst (metaphorically speaking) over scrubbies criminal behavior.

Matthews has nothing buy distain for us on the left.

He harbors resentment for the Clintons because he didn't get the White House Spokesman job during Clinton's second term.


Matthews was one of the loudest of the media liars as he distorted Al Gore's record of public service, while at the same time fawning over G. Gordon Liddy and telling Liddy how much he admired him.

Matthews and his show is garbage. I wouldn't be even mildly upset if his show went off the air.

I'm sorry, I just can't muster any respect for the man.

He's damned lucky Tip isn't alive today because Tip would (figuratively) slap the sh*t out of him.

[Frisbee]

82. Don't forget....

he has publicly said the he voted for GWB. Twice! Nothing says more to me about a person than knowing they voted to reelect W after his first term.

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

14. Actually, to me it's the opposite...

I listen to them because they bring us more context and more factual grounding than anybody else. There's no shortage of highly partisan, divisive, right-wing ideology of the NeoCon variety. Anybody who can point out that the conservative train has been derailed needs a soapbox these days. The country can't wait. Thank you so much, KO and RM!

[Captain Hilts]

17. I read many newspapers every day. Lib and Cons. nt

[Fran Kubelik]

22. Maddows is too new?

New to MSNBC? Because she's been out there on the radio and on TV for quite awhile.

[orleans]

61. rachel is great. i adore her. n/t

[chippendoll]

95. Love MSNBC

This is my first post here. I admire Rachel Maddow so much. She is absolutely brilliant and sets a wonderful tone for the network. I cannot say enough about Keith Olbermann. To me, he is our generation's Edward R. Murrow. Even Chris Matthews, who is a bit conflicted in some of his remarks, is a terrific commentator. If it were not for MSNBC, I would be lost. This network (with pros like Chuck Todd, David Gregory, David Shuster, Dan Abrams, et al) have saved my sanity.

[orleans]

117. yep. welcome to du. n/t

[MBS]

9. you are absolutely right

I am just in despair over the MSM, as I am with politics as usual . But it has to be said that both the MSM and Congress have all been getting HUGE pressure from the right-wing folks for years, and we need to do MUCH more to balance things out: not only to complain when the MSM and Congress (etc) don't measure up, but especially to support them when they do good.

[Skidmore]

11. Thank you. We continute to support MSNBC with viewership

because it provides us with those shows and Schuster. I love Schuster.

I get very irritated when Democrats call for the same censorship practiced by Republicans for the past decade. I sometimes wonder if those people remember the complaints about government censorship of facts at all. It is what has gotten us where we are.

[blondeatlast]

15. I think many are too young to know, much less remember.

The differences between CNN with Bernard Shaw* and CNN now are like night and day, but that CNN was almost 10 years ago now.

*Edit: Fixed. Thank you, corkhead!

[Skidmore]

18. I think you are on the money. Bernie Sanders was such

a journalist with integrity. We lost a goodly number of worthy practitioners of the profession, haven't we?

[liberaldem4ever]

30. God, I miss Bernie Shaw

I remember when the OK City bombing happened, and he was there talking about the strength and resilience of the American people. He recited the poem Invictus live on the air to describe them with tears in his eyes. I had never heard that poem before and it was so beautiful it made me cry too.

That was when journalists still had a soul and weren't afraid to show it. I'll never forget that.

Invictus
by William Ernest Henley

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,

I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.

Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.


Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,

And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.


It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,

I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

[pamela]

56. McVeigh's final statement was Invictus.

[liberaldem4ever]

100. Oh shit, I didn't know that

Maybe he heard Bernie say that on CNN in jail and twisted it to make himself look like he was strong and resilient instead of the people he victimized. I found out it is a pretty well-known poem so probably not.

That really makes me sick because I love that poem and memorized it after I heard it. To think that coward McVeigh used it like that after he murdered all the innocent people and those little babies....that BURNS me up. :mad:

[pamela]

118. Yes, I felt the same way.

I used to love that poem until McVeigh used it. That kind of ruined it for me. Hope I didn't ruin it for you, too. It's still a great poem.

[democrat2thecore]

108. That was a real "moment" in TV news -nt

[corkhead]

21. Do you mean Bernie Shaw?

[blondeatlast]

27. Oh, dear, yes, of course. fixed it, and big thanks! nt

[Captain Hilts]

32. The Bernard Shaw that asked the rape question in the '88 debates? Great journalism, NOT!

I'll pass in my praise of Shaw.

[corkhead]

34. We like Bernie Sanders too

:toast:

[Captain Hilts]

38. And the fact that there were TWO Bernard Shaws was confusing...nt

[liberal N proud]

12. The neocons are trying their best to kill true journalism

They have placed as many toe the line talking heads in positions as possible, threatened others into towing the line and fired ones that refused.

Matthews, Olbermann and Maddow are some of the few left.

[EV_Ares]

16. OK, now the question is this. We have known this sort of thing has been going on for some

time now. What is the democratic leaders doing about it and this is what is hurting in campaign and general honest information getting out to the American people. You had Rupert Murdoch holding a fundraiser at his home for Hillary in the primaries and you know he is not going to open up honest media. So, should the dems win the WH and should the dems make gains in the house and senate, what are they going to do with the crisis in the media which is basically owned by about 4 corporations along with individuals like Murdoch who will continue to frame the news favorable to neo-cons and corporations.

I think this is where Kucinich comes in and you can see where he & a few others are on tract to the real problems in this country. The major two parties have cocktails together after their road shows and performances in front of the American people while Kucinich is hard at work for the people. He knows but we need a stronger third party to make real needed changes as the corporate money keeps getting bigger in the democratic party every year.

[H2O Man]

33. I wish I had

a good answer to the important question that you ask. I do not. But I will take a minute to explain what I try to do, as a member of the progressive grass roots community.

Over many years, I have considered how progressive and liberal democrats can access and exercise political power. I have reached the conclusion that, at least for the present time, the best "third party" alternative is to expand the progressive/liberal wing of the democratic party. I attempt to do this on the local level, by working with other, non-democrats, who share values similar to my own. Thus, I am friends with area Green Party members, socialists, and other independent voters.

There are times when this means asking them to support a democratic candidate. Last night, in fact, I had a discussion with an old friend who was considering voting for someone other than Obama. I explained why a protest vote is not, in my opinion, in his best interests.

There are other times when I am open to supporting one of their candidates. Of course, I do not discuss that on DU, not simply because I know my post would be locked, but more because I respect what the DU administrators have going here. I think that DU offers a unique opportunity for progressive and liberal democrats to speak to progressive/liberal non-democrats; I attempt to do this, rather than wasting time engaging in discussions with conservative democrats, who I share far fewer values with.

By expanding the ability of our wing to get votes out; to raise campaign funds; to support groups such as MoveOn; and to make our voice heard -- if only through coordinated LTTE campaigns; and coordinated efforts at lobbying politicians and the media, the progressive/liberal wing of the democratic party becomes stronger. And, of course, it also helps that while we may have been a distinct minority, we were correct on issues such as the war in Iraq and the Plame scandal.

I am only one person, but I have worked enough at this level that when I call a local or area politician, or news editor, I am confident that I will have the opportunity to be heard. There are many, many others who are more talented than am I, who have invested years in doing the same basic thing. The result is that we are in a position to increase our political strength, including by engaging in voter education & registration programs among low-income neighborhoods and college campuses, and actually begin to get our own candidates elected to local and area political office.

[EV_Ares]

44. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post. You and I are totally on the

same page in our thoughts and ideas about this. I have always been for Barack as I felt he was the one with the best chance of defeating the republican candidate. I would have supported Hillary if she had won as in fact she has some ideas I like better than Barack and of course I have always had the most respect for Dennis because no matter how much he gets knocked down or does not get the attention he deserves, he stands right back up and fights for his ideas that he believes in.

You said: "I have reached the conclusion that, at least for the present time, the best "third party" alternative is to expand the progressive/liberal wing of the democratic party." I agree completely that is the best alternative right now as I do not see any other way.

I understand some of the Hillary supporters being upset and disappointed about how things turned out for them but for the life of me I do not understand their even considering supporting McCain because if they were Hillary supporters, there is no way they could support him other than just trying to defeat Barack which is against their own interests if they were serious in the first place.

Anyway, yes, if we could do what you are working towards, it would go a long way in achieving some of the goals of what the democratic party should stand for, the progressives and liberals, etc. On the media issue, I really, really do think it is important that it gets addressed before it is too late because if you are unable to get your message out to the public in the way it should be delivered to them, you have a real problem on your hand.

[Heather MC]

19. I guess Freedom of the Press was a nice Idea in Theory

[Jennicut]

20. Very interesting. MSNBC has been going downhill lately.

They don't get that their main audience is people more on the left. Thank God for Keith and Rachel. I also hope Chris Matthews finally grows a real spine and runs for office as a Democrat, it would be good for him.

[H2O Man]

24. Mr. Matthews

ran for office in the 1970s, as a progressive democrat.

[MichDem10]

23. I think it would be interesting to see Tweety run for the Senate.

As a Democrat would he "sock his opponent in the nose" like he constantly talks about on his show? Would he attack repubicons and call them LIARS that they are!? I think it would be interesting - possibly a new kind of Democratic politics?

[Cosmocat]

101. I will work against him in the primary ...

Mathews has made a hard turn left in the last couple of months, but he spent the first 7 years of this century looking out for his own butt - which means he marginalized Ds on a regular basis. You didn't have to be a complete right wing boot licker to have a job, but at the very least you had mock, ridicule and marginalize Ds at every turn, and in that regard Mathews was the same as everyone else.

Now that he is likely going to run for Senate, he is buffing up his democratic creds. All fine and well, but Phil Donahue didn't play the game - it cost him his job, but not his soul.

I will work against Mathews in the primary, and support whoever, hopefully opposes him.

It won't matter, he will get the nomination, but I will feel better.

I won't vote or help Specter in anyway, cause that little worm has to go. But, I won't work for Mathews.

[rurallib]

25. And why wouldn't FUX and CNN plus ABC, NBC and CBS be getting pressure?

Oh yeah - they are already doing the WH bidding.
So there is one little parcel of sanity in the TV news world and the admin wants it crushed?
And radio just stinks except for a few very hard to get shows. And that includes NPR which is pretty much of a shill with a few exceptions.

[rurallib]

26. And why wouldn't FUX and CNN plus ABC, NBC and CBS be getting pressure?

pressure like MSNBC?
Oh yeah - they are already doing the WH bidding.
So there is one little parcel of sanity in the TV news world and the admin wants it crushed?
And radio just stinks except for a few very hard to get shows. And that includes NPR which is pretty much of a shill with a few exceptions.

[annabanana]

28. I was WONDERING what Bolton was up to these days...

We really ought to slide a GPS device in the folds of his neck somewhere...


He has done nothing but harm to the body politic since he first came on the scene.

[Blue_Roses]

29. John Bolton...

now there's a real piece of work...:eyes:

All John knows is how to bully someone into submission. I can't stand these neo-cons.

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. I agree, Just don't watch David Gregory unless you need an aneurysm

If you use a tivo or satellite it does record your activities and feeds that info
back to the ratings.

I like to use the word Tweety and affectionately will continue to use it.

[blondeatlast]

51. Yeah, I can't take Dancin' Davey either. GAWD. nt

[Me.]

35. Good To Hear This Spoken Aloud

How did Bolton get placed in the position of being able to direct the nonsense chatter? Funny, even they can't save McSame from himself, no matter how many Boltons try the lipstick thing. And yes, I'm calling him a pig, with apologies to pigs.

[H2O Man]

36. By way of

someone named Joe Lieberman.

[democracy1st]

41. thanks H2O Man

[blondeatlast]

43. kick nt

[FatDave]

45. "DUers should be e-mailing MSNBC"

I mail them so often, they probably automatically filter out my emails. Today I told them it was ridiculous to have Joe Scarborough on in the morning. Why compete with Fox for the conservatives when you could have a liberal audience with no competition whatsoever?

Anyhow, please everyone, help me annoy them: [e-mail]

[blondeatlast]

48. Joey Scar was actually our friend today. No joke. did you read what H2OMan wrote? nt

[FatDave]

50. No, I just skipped straight to the last line.

:sarcasm:

But um, H2OMan's post says nothing about Scarborough. The first time the string "scar" (case insensitive) appears anywhere in this thread is in my reply above (#45). The string "joe" first appears as a reference to Joe Liebermann, then again in my reply. No joke.

So...ahem. Did you read what H2OMan wrote?

[madrchsod]

47. msnbc should be out of business by now

the boardroom of general electric will never let msnbc be nothing but republican light. they keep maddow and olbermann because they generate enough ad revenue to justify keeping them.

[mb7588a]

49. And to think...

It used to be referred to here at DU as "MSRNC".

[McCamy Taylor]

52. MSNBC is the propaganda outlet for General Electric. They will not shut down anytime soon.

However, I hear that GE's financial unit is in trouble, like every other investment company in the country.

[dchill]

55. Kick - and recommend.

Now that's what I call useful information.

[bertman]

57. Thanks for bringing this up, H20 Man. As a public service announcement I'd like to remind everyone

not to use the term MSM (mainstream media) as it implies legitimacy. Please use the term CORPORATE MEDIA, as it perfectly describes the media we now have. P.S. I am only following up on another DUer's request about the Corporate media. Someone else brought this up but I agree 100%.

Tweety a Democrat? Hmmm. Maybe 25% of the time as a Progressive Dem. 40% Corporate Dem. 35% lockstep Fascist.

Good idea about writing MSNBC regarding their "reporters" who I prefer to think of as entertainers with a strong Republican bent.

The episode this morning on Morning Joe (I saw the video cut) was bullshit. It's all fluff. No serious challenges to McAnus' straight-faced LIES. And Mika seemed almost embarrassed at being labeled an Obama supporter. Wouldn't it have been nice if she had responded "Senator, I will support the candidate of my choice. That's the American way. If I choose to support Senator Obama that is my prerogative, which I cherish as an American citizen." And MSNBC could have edited out the "So, go fuck yourself."

[cui bono]

58. k&r

[Cha]

59. Precisely, H20Man

Thanks!

[knixphan]

60. K&R

[protect our future]

62. Does anyone have MSNBC's phone number?

I had a phone number for them at one time but I've misplaced it.

I do much better with a phone call instead of an e-mail.

[rhett o rick]

63. My oh my our emails will really effect a change. MSNBC must be laughing their

heads off over our emails.

[BlueIdaho]

64. Answer me this...

1. What is your better idea?

2. What are you doing to help elect Barack Obama?

[rhett o rick]

103. I apologize, I was out of order. I took out my frustrations on the post.

i am registering voters and working with my county Democratic committee. I also write at least an email a day plus a LTTE a day. I have written a listing of the top ten reasons to vote against McCain and have been handing out copies.

But I think that until the gullibles of this country see the light, it is all for naught. I feel it will get worse until the country figures out we are already under the thumb of a fascist government. And by then it may be too late.

[BlueIdaho]

112. Its ok - I got you back.

We all have those moments when we think the complacency, ignorance, and ineptitude is so great - the inertia of the system and our citizens so massive that it is impossible to move our nation into the light. YOU are changing the status quo with every email and LTTE you send and every handbill you push into the hand of a passerby. People like you WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. Barack says this campaign is not about him - it is about us.

Together we can - YES WE CAN - and I got your back.

[rhett o rick]

128. Thanks you so much. And I got your back. nm

[H2O Man]

72. "effect a change"

It appears that you did not understand what I wrote. Because the majority of those who responded clearly did, I suspect that it was not because of the OP.

I note that you are from Portland. My niece works in the media in your city. She used to teach journalism at Syracuse University. Perhaps she could better explain the purpose of writing messages of support for CM, KO, and RM. Of course, not every student passed her classes.

[rhett o rick]

102. My sincere and greatest apologies. I also am emailing my brains out.

I am totally frustrated and don't truly think the emails to the fascists at NBC have any effect. It'd be like emailing Hitler saying "Don't you dare gas those jews" because if you do I will send more emails.

Freedom is like a sausage and the fascists keep slicing off a little slice. Not enough to generate a rev olt but if we aren't careful we will be holding the string.

I think that things will continue to get worse until we are all standing in food lines, and then it will be too late.

Please excuse me for taking my frustrations out on your post.

[H2O Man]

107. Mo problem at all.

And you are right -- things will get worse, and innocent people will suffer. After Obama is elected President, our real struggle begins.

[rhett o rick]

129. Thanks for understanding. And did you intend to say "Mo", I ask because that's my

other handle, Mo Reese. I too have a blogspot "keepitsimple-mo.blogspot.com. My goal is to try to explain issues in easy language, like talking points, something most Americans can understand. I worry less about accuracy than impact. I think there are enough intellectual blogs. I am not the best to do this but haven't found anyone else that will.

[TheKentuckian]

65. If he can be put on them it'll be the same as the Reich did in the 80's

by giving sponsors a daily migraine.

We have to go all Proctor and Gamble on em!

[protect our future]

66. I'm not in favor of Chris Matthews running for office as a Dem.

He's two-faced and can't keep his big mouth shut. I've seen him annihilate some guest with words, then he'll be interviewed on another network where he takes the completely opposite side.

I do like watching him on MSNBC though. I've finally gotten used to him playing both sides, and that's okay. Chris is very, very good at what he does on MSNBC but I can't see him holding an office cuz like I said, he just doesn't know when it's time to shut up and I don't think he could ever change.

Besides, I know I'd miss him!!! (I hate to admit that.....)

[biglefthander]

67. Emails wont make a damn bit of difference...

The only thing the network scum will respond to is Neilsen ratings...every time the networks cancel a popular show, the regular viewers email their asses off and the suits on the top floor just laugh and go back to their cigars.

[mzmolly]

68. I think Matthews is greatly misunderstood by many progressives who don't understand his style?

He's a master at playing devils advocate and as such, at times he asks Democrats tough, provocative questions. Some take this to mean that he's biased against us, which is not the case.

I did not know that Matthews was silenced during the Plame affair, but I did know that he was one of the FEW if not the only voice in the media at the time who was actually interested in investigating and airing the matter.

I shall heed your words and support "the three" by writing MSNBC.

Thanks again for this important and thoughtful post H2O Man.

[H2O Man]

73. There are a number

of reasons why many DUers dislike Mr. Matthews. Some examples include that while he was against the war in Iraq from the beginning, he also gave some mixed messages. This include his expressing a favorable opinion of President Bush. More, Matthews likes Bush as a person, but dislikes both Bill and Hillary Clinton. That's odd, in my opinion.

But I think that you are right that it is his style that causes many people to find him annoying from time to time. Even Joseph Wilson comments on Mr. Matthews' speaking style on page one of his book.

And one DUer holds a grudge because in the 1970s, Matthews played a role in exposing his relative for corruption in office, bringing his career to a humiliating end.

[geekgrrl]

85. I agree with you-- I've always liked Chris, and have been suprised so many don't nt

[defendandprotect]

69. Why are you watching this garbage -- ???

[H2O Man]

71. Fair quesion.

I watch it for a couple of reasons. First, to see the interviews with McCain and Biden. Second, for the same reason that I read newspapers and books .... not only those that I agree with, or that are on topics or by authors that I like.

[defendandprotect]

93. It has long been beyond corp-media offering anything that could ...

be described as more than one view or one opinion --

You are simply watching right-wing propaganda --

Would you go into your library and read right-wing books?

Especially if you're well read enough to understand the left and right from

highest perspectives ...

It's a "he said/she said" game of the day they've been playing increasingly

over the last two decades and more --

My advice is ... Turn the TV off --

[H2O Man]

106. My library has

quite a few right-wing books. I do not buy them "new"; I get them at public library book sales. I enjoy public debate, and an easy way to be knee-capped in a debate is if one's opponent is able to demonstrate that you have only read those books etc that you already agree with.

I'm fully confident that reading the opposition's works will not contaminate or damage me. And that is because I absolutely know the difference between the progressive left from the rigid right. More, I can easily put most republicans in check mate by using their own sources against them.

[defendandprotect]

116. Of course libraries buy r-w books ....

what I said was ... "why would you read them?"

Would you read Ann Coulter, for instance or Bay Buchanan, or Dobson --

Bush or Cheney -- ???

I don't think we have to punish ourselves by viewing or reading nonsense --


So.. in a debate you'd be disadvantaged if you hadn't read everything Rev. Falwell

or Pat Robertson ever had to say ...?

Nor am I talking about your mind being "damaged" --

I'm talking about you wasting your time -- !!!


More, I can easily put most republicans in check mate by using their own sources against them.

Those monitoring the r-w for you provide all that info ---

[H2O Man]

119. It has been

over 40 years since I've read any fiction; hence, books by AC or BB are not to be found in my library. But there are serious republican authors that I do read. Reading their works does not imply that I agree with them.

And I agree that one can rely on others for information about the weaknesses of republican sources. I think that is a good option for those who prefer to do so. I prefer to read and think for myself.

[defendandprotect]

122. "Serious Republican authors" .... ?

Who may be -- ???

And what of all of Faux News -- ?


Again, I don't suggest that you agree with them; rather, that it's

a waste of valuable time.

[H2O Man]

124. I will readily admit

that you are better suited temperamentally to deal with Fox News than am I. But I would note that Fox reporter James Rosen recently published "The Strong Man," an interesting book on John Mitchell that provides previously unpublished material. More, though he is a clown, Sean Hannity's interview with Sarah Palin offered yet another example of her habit of lying (about her response to McCain's offer).

A few examples of serious conservative authors, who all have appeared numerous times on network/cable news programs would be Bob Woodward, Joseph Wilswon, Michael Scheuer, and Tyler Drumheller. One might believe that there are distinct advantages to not reading and/or listening to any or all of them. I will still continue to read their books, and listen to them when they appear on tv. It does not mean that I believe or agree with everything that they say.

Perhaps a better example of the benefits of keeping an open mind and exposing one's self to a wide variety of sources of information would be the populist Bernard DeVoto, who was born in 1897 to Mormon and Catholic parents. Could he have authored such a wonderful line as, "....I came to conclude that absolutes were a mirage. And in my desert country, mirages are commonplace," had he not fully explored conservative thought?

[defendandprotect]

126. You think that I'm watching Faux News ... ??? !!!

or was that intended as an insult--?

Re Mitchell and Watergate, Mitchell was as dirty as they come --

And, rather it was Martha Mitchell who told us of "Nazi" thinking/

agenda of Nixon WH.

AGREE with you on Michael Scheuer --

While I disagree with concept of CIA and think should be folded ...

Scheuer is confirming here Cheney's strong-arming of the CIA-Iraqi

intelligence --

This would be a book I'd scan for info --

but much of this known now.

Scheuer is whistle-blowing on Bush administration which puts him

in a different category --


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/interviews/scheuer.html




http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Man-Mitchell-Secrets-Watergate/dp/0385508646/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221753466&sr=1-1

Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
Casting the 66th attorney general and Watergate felon as the most upright man in the Nixon administration is faint praise indeed, to judge by this biography. Fox News correspondent Rosen applauds Mitchell for his tough law-and-order policies, school-desegregation efforts and hard line against leftist radicals, and for enduring wife Martha's alcoholic breakdowns and raving late-night phone calls to reporters. The book's heart is Rosen's meticulous, exhaustively researched study of Mitchell's Watergate role, absolving him of ordering the break-in and most other charges leveled against him. Instead, Mitchell is painted as a force for propriety who was framed by others—especially White House counsel John Dean, who comes off as Watergate's evil genius. (Rosen also claims Watergate burglar James McCord was secretly working for the CIA and deliberately sabotaged the break-in.) Unfortunately, Rosen's salutes to Mitchell's integrity and reverence for the law clash with his accounts of the man's misdeeds: undermining the Paris peace talks, suborning and committing perjury, tolerating the criminal scheming in Nixon's White House and re-election campaign. Mitchell may have blanched at the Nixon administration's sleazy intrigues, as Rosen insists, but he seems not to have risen above them. (Feb. 19)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From The New Yorker
Excerpt: Particularly wrenching for him was the fate of his wife, Martha, who was regarded as a somewhat comical figure—a Southern Gracie Allen for the Nixon era—even as she was falling apart.

I think watching the videos put up at Drmocratic Underground -- even if

Hannity -- is fine.

The Woodward journey is, of course, seriously questioned now ...









A few examples of serious conservative authors, who all have appeared numerous times on network/cable news programs would be Bob Woodward, Joseph Wilswon, Michael Scheuer, and Tyler Drumheller. One might believe that there are distinct advantages to not reading and/or listening to any or all of them. I will still continue to read their books, and listen to them when they appear on tv. It does not mean that I believe or agree with everything that they say.

Perhaps a better example of the benefits of keeping an open mind and exposing one's self to a wide variety of sources of information would be the populist Bernard DeVoto, who was born in 1897 to Mormon and Catholic parents. Could he have authored such a wonderful line as, "....I came to conclude that absolutes were a mirage. And in my desert country, mirages are commonplace," had he not fully explored conservative thought?
http://h2oman.blogspot.com

[defendandprotect]

127. You think I'm watching Faux News -- ??? !!! -- EDITED

or was that intended as an insult--?

AGREE with you on Michael Scheuer --
While I disagree with concept of CIA and think should be folded ...
Scheuer is confirming here Cheney's strong-arming of the CIA-Iraqi
intelligence --

This would be a book I'd scan for info -- but much of this known now.

Scheuer is whistle-blowing on Bush administration which puts him
in a different category --

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/interviews/scheuer.html

I think watching the videos put up at Democratic Underground -- even if
Hannity -- is fine.

The Woodward journey is, of course, seriously questioned now ...



re Rosen ...

Re Mitchell and Watergate, Mitchell was as dirty as they come --
And, rather it was Martha Mitchell who told us of "Nazi" thinking/
agenda of Nixon WH. And she may have been abused and more for it.

http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Man-Mitchell-Secrets-Watergate/dp/0385508646/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221753466&sr=1-1

Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
Casting the 66th attorney general and Watergate felon as the most upright man in the Nixon administration is faint praise indeed, to judge by this biography. Fox News correspondent Rosen applauds Mitchell for his tough law-and-order policies, school-desegregation efforts and hard line against leftist radicals, and for enduring wife Martha's alcoholic breakdowns and raving late-night phone calls to reporters. The book's heart is Rosen's meticulous, exhaustively researched study of Mitchell's Watergate role, absolving him of ordering the break-in and most other charges leveled against him. Instead, Mitchell is painted as a force for propriety who was framed by others—especially White House counsel John Dean, who comes off as Watergate's evil genius. (Rosen also claims Watergate burglar James McCord was secretly working for the CIA and deliberately sabotaged the break-in.) Unfortunately, Rosen's salutes to Mitchell's integrity and reverence for the law clash with his accounts of the man's misdeeds: undermining the Paris peace talks, suborning and committing perjury, tolerating the criminal scheming in Nixon's White House and re-election campaign. Mitchell may have blanched at the Nixon administration's sleazy intrigues, as Rosen insists, but he seems not to have risen above them. (Feb. 19)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From The New Yorker
Excerpt: Particularly wrenching for him was the fate of his wife, Martha, who was regarded as a somewhat comical figure—a Southern Gracie Allen for the Nixon era—even as she was falling apart.

Again -- I have never suggested that you AGREE with these authors --!!
Again -- what I an suggesting is much of it is a waste of time.

I don't think that the many who have turned off Faux News or CNN --
13 million viewers when Turner had the network, dropped to 3 million after --
are showing a lack of "open minds." but rather that they recognize BS when
they hear it.


Re Bernard DeVoto, whom I'm largely unfamiliar with ...

Perhaps a better example of the benefits of keeping an open mind and exposing one's self to a wide variety of sources of information would be the populist Bernard DeVoto, who was born in 1897 to Mormon and Catholic parents. Could he have authored such a wonderful line as, "....I came to conclude that absolutes were a mirage. And in my desert country, mirages are commonplace," had he not fully explored conservative thought?
http://h2oman.blogspot.com

Organized patriarchal religions and their dictates are as quickly understood
as farce by young children introduced to it often even before their consciences and own thoughts have been formed.

Bernard DeVotoHe began his career in 1922 as an English instructor at Northwestern University and began to write articles and novels, which often provoked controversy for their liberal viewpoint.

DeVoto has also been called a "fascist."

"Contrary" seems the best description --

[TrogL]

70. I'm waiting for this all to be over, then the "what really happened" shows can start

Sample shows:

• Inside the Bush White House
  
• Now it can be told - a journalist's nightmare
  
• What really happened to your vote 2000
  
• What really happened to your vote 2004
  
• PNAC - the real story
  
• The Oil Wars - revealed (yes, I want to write that one)
  

[curious one]

75. Here are the email addresses for MSNBC, NBC, and GE if anyone is interested:

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail] (I am not sure if this works)

[H2O Man]

76. Thanks!

Much appreciated.

[OakCliffDem]

77. K & R

[RoccoR5955]

78. K & R! n/t

[druidity33]

79. IMO MSNBC should be working

on getting their channels into more markets. I truly believe the only reason they don't top Fox in ratings and viewers is becuse they demand a higher tier of service. We as consumers should not only be writing to MSNBC to voice our concerns about their kow-towing, but also to our cable companies to complain about the placement of MSNBC on more expensive cable packages.

:shrug:

[polichick]

80. I have called msnbc several times to thank them for these three and demand equal time...

Funny how just the other day Contessa announced that they were giving 15 min to Obama's speech and 15 min to McCain's ~ I do think the calls and emails help. k&r

I also told them I won't be watching their network on election night if David Gregory is covering.

[defendandprotect]

96. Keep in mind, many of us were doing this over 20 years ...!!

And the direction to MORE corp control & killing more progressive hosts/ideals continued --

Periods before elections leave a little room for liberal ideas --
because they can't be positive of the next GOP steal --
but corp-control will continue to expand r-w propaganda & shut out
or wash-out liberal views.

They truly fear ANY truth getting thru --

They cancel their most popular shows & hosts because of that reality --
LIBERAL/POPULIST msgs are powerful -- !!

WHY would you watch anything but C-span or PBS, even -- or internet for
election results?
TRY Pacifica radio/WBAI - they usually have Amy Goodman on --

Turn off the TV -- tune out -- !!

[defendandprotect]

97. Keep in mind, many of us were doing that over two decades ...

of destruction of anything still resembling a free press ---

And the direction to MORE corp control & killing more progressive hosts/ideals continued --

Periods before elections leave a little room for liberal ideas --
because they can't be positive of the next GOP steal --
but corp-control will continue to expand r-w propaganda & shut out
or wash-out liberal views.

They truly fear ANY truth getting thru --

They cancel their most popular shows & hosts because of that reality --
LIBERAL/POPULIST msgs are powerful -- !!

WHY would you watch anything but C-span or PBS, even -- or internet for
election results?
TRY Pacifica radio/WBAI - they usually have Amy Goodman on --

Turn off the TV -- tune out --

[realitythink]

81. Don't just turn off the TV turn off your cable box too

Or change the channel on it. All of us that watch Keith and Rachel should change the channel or turn off the box after we are done. If you leave those on over night into the next morning I think Joe Scab will get the ratings. Am I wrong?

[eshfemme]

83. Oh... that kinda explains their weird bipolar reporting then.

Whatever problems I have with Tweety, he gives us some great moments. And at least he's honest that he's not objective, which is more than I can say for most of the pundits who claim to be objective or neutral.


And seriously, this MSNBC thing is serious because what people forget is that Freedom of the Press is part of the FIRST AMENDMENT. That means that the Founding Fathers prioritized it above the Second Amendment of the right to bear arms. The press needs to figure out that just like the American citizenry, their privileges come with responsibilities and their rights, which have been gradually curtailed under Republican rule, needs to be taken back again.

[Patsy Stone]

84. There's a little spin in the crawl this morning.

For the past couple of days, while McCain has been ahead in the polls, they just listed the numbers: McCain 47/Obama 45, or whatever it was. This morning, since Obama is ahead in the Reuters poll, it now tells you that although Obama is ahead 47 to 45, it's still within the 3.1% MOE.

???

[yellerpup]

86. Thank you.

Water on a fire. You always provide perspective. :kick:

[peacetalksforall]

87. I have to smile at this post. This has been going on at MSNBC from the

day they were ordered to go after the Clintons. Then, Al Gore, No matter who the DEM is - the corporation will be against them.

There may be a few breakaways writing about it. That's the ONLY difference.

An equally wide condescending smile goes to Isakoff who was key in the impeachment of Clinton. Newsweek and MSNBC were married in a partnerships. Isakoff with Coulter, the lawyers of Starr's companion lawyers, conspired to destroy Clinton in specific acts and manipulation.

So where and when did he and Matthews 'get religion'?

I feel deep scorn for GE/NBC and will never trust them. The only rationale behind Maddow and Olberman is 1) profits from new listeners and 2) hedging - to get more Dem viewers believng they are fair and balanced.

I don't begrudge Maddow's joining them. Dems leaders never stopped appearing on the shows when MSNBC attemted to continue bold faced lies and orchestrated assaults. So she might as well let some light in.

But, plese, NEVER, NEVER trust them. They are in the WH bed right next to Fox and the others. It's the same with CNBC - even more damaging - financially - rationally.

[defendandprotect]

98. Absolutely -- and the've financed & destroyed anything left of frree press --

FINANCED the destructive Pat Buchanan -- sexist, racist, homophobic views -

"Crossfire" concepts in reporting --

GE is MORE r-w than John Birch society --

[Lorien]

88. Not emailing; sending hard copy letters

letters have a lot more weight with producers and management than emails do. I have friends who are journalists and one who is a station news director. Ten letters will move management to act.

[H2O Man]

89. Right.

Hard copy letters are definitely the best.

[MagickMuffin]

90. I have sent NBC/MSNBC three emails this past week, I'll post them here

I sent this one on Monday: This was in response to Meet the Press

______________________________________________________

I noticed that on Meet the Press Tom Brokaw let Rudy Giuliani get away with telling lies and misrepresenting the TRUTH about the legislative investigations of abuse of power in Alaska.

Rudy claimed that the investigations are being led by Democrats when in FACT they are being AUTHORIZED by a bipartisan panel with a vote of 12-0.

Is Tom Brokaw so afraid the McCain campaign which threatened to pull out of NBC's debates that HE will let them say ANYTHING?.?.?

The airwaves are suppose to be OUR way of making informed decisions, but when you let people distort the TRUTH then you are guilty of negligence. I guess you think we AREN'T paying attention.

Why should I watch your political programming when there is no BALANCE to the distortions coming from a campaign that is desperate of keeping our country and voting public dumb down?.?.?

The only programming worth my time is Countdown with Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow. Your other programming has proven to be very biased towards the republicon agenda.

I will continue to show my support for Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow, but I will not watch your other programming. I don't NEED that kind of "programming" since I'm not easily brainwashed.

Best Regards,


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




I sent this last week to head honcho Phil Griffin and Steve Capus:

__________________________________________________________________

Dear Steve,

As a viewer of MSNBC, your decision to keep Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews from covering the post debates and election coverage has left me no choice but to seek my coverage elsewhere. The decision was suppose to be because Olbermann is "controversial" at least he doesn't hide it like Tom Brokaw, Brian Williams (big Rush Limbaugh fan), David Gregory (Karl Rove's Go-Go dancer), and of course the late Tim Russert (voted for Bush, and admitted Jack Welch turned him into a republican).

While Olbermann may be an outspoken person, he shares my political views. David Gregory is a talking head for the RNC. I do not watch his Race to the White House program, because of his right wing connections and the talking points they give him.

I also must file a complaint about Gregory's coverage on his show today. It was brought to my attention that he spent a large portion of his show reaping praises on Palin and McCain sons serving in Iraq, however, he did not mention Joe Biden's son, Beau who is also serving our country in Iraq.

I do applaud your decision on giving Rachel Maddow her own show. She will provide the balance your cable network needs.

I will not watch MSNBC with the exception of Countdown with Keith Olbermann, and the Rachel Maddow Show.


Best Regards,

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Of course I haven't received a reply, but I wasn't going to hold my breath waiting for one either. But just the same I thought they should at least know that I am paying attention. However, I only watch Olbermann and Maddow, but I have reliable sources who keep me informed.

It really is a shame that the media is dumbing down the American people:cry:

[H2O Man]

91. Great!

As Bill Moyers often points out, our national crises generally have a corresponding crisis with the media.

[MagickMuffin]

92. It IS a real tragedy and well what can I say except it pisses me off

Before cable newz we use to have some form of dignity within the media. Now it's all glitz with little substance. JoeBlow tries REAL hard to be like the Daily Show, but he always falls flat.

And ALL the women look like the whores they are. Of course the men aren't any better. They pimp themselves out to the highest bidders. Jumping from one network to another.

During the DNC convention we were recording C-SPAN to the hard drive, and watching MSNBC because Olbermann was there, however, when they continually talked over the Speakers and me cursing up a storm, hubby decided to switch on over to C-SPAN. I was so glad he did. I got to watch and listen to every Speech without "Talking Blabber Heads" it was refreshening to say the least.

[defendandprotect]

99. Again, many of us tried over 20 years to turn this around --

the controls are in hands of corporate-monopoly --having nothing to do with

free press --

You're wasting your time --

especially if you tune in --

[H2O Man]

109. It's good that

some younger people have that much experience. Because of the corporate nature of the media, it isn't going to change anytime soon. I don't think that is the goal that people are expressing, or expecting. Rather, it is to be able to use the media to our advantage from time to time. That we can do.

[defendandprotect]

113. We seem to have a communications failure --

[H2O Man]

120. Perhaps.

I understand what you are saying in the numerous posts on this thread where you advocate turning off the tv. If that is your choice, that's good for you. I wouldn't think of saying that it is important that you turn your tv on and watch the news. You are fully capable of determining what works for you. Likewise, I am fully capable of deciding what works for me. I think that simply message has been communicated quite well, and that the only potential failure would be if one of us refused to show respect for the other's right to decide for him/herself. And, in that case, the failure would not be one of communication, it would be a failure to respect differences of opinion.

[defendandprotect]

123. This is discussion and debate to try to awaken us all ...

to more progressive methods --

It is certainly not about FORCING anyone here to think in a regimented way --

But I don't think you can fail to see that the DAILY criticism of our TV "news"/

commentary is a reflection on your choice.

boob tube: Definition from Answers.com
boob tube n. Slang. Television: "Parents complain about the quality of the shows but don't prevent their children from gluing themselves to the boob
www.answers.com/topic/boob-tube - Cached

[notaboutus]

111. Try and Try Again

You are right. We do need to stop watching but we also need a national campaign. I truly believe the way this election has been covered was a tipping point. Thanks to sites like this and the internet people are more informed and have more sources of information than just MSM. which in turn makes you realize how grimy they are. Don't give up! Don't give out! Don't give in!

[defendandprotect]

114. IMO, tuning in is giving up --- find other sdources of info --

others are monitoring this garbage for you --

[WillyT]

104. Kick !!!

:kick:

[notaboutus]

110. Media Disputes

At first I thought I was the only one. We need a campaign against the media. It is not just how they are covering the campaign it is how they cover the news period. They have shows that do nothing but cover the stock market yet they wanted to push the pig story knowing Wall Street was falling apart. They have yet to mention the republicans wanting to put our social security into the stock market, glad that didn't happen. The media never mention Democrats are more conservative. This is a FACT go to www.gpoaccess.gov/eop/-index.html.
My point, conservatives always talk about tax and spend liberals yet Democratic Presidents govern better. Based on all economic standards and you can go on line and fact check this so why do they always let the republicans get away with the "fiscal conservative" LIE?
They are not talking about Ike I am in Louisville, KY and schools are closed down the whole week here and IN because of Ike. Most people have been without electricity for 4 days and counting. No news coverage. America's High School Graduation Rate is like 60 no news coverage. I could go on and on but I am sure you see where I am going. The media needs to remember its basic role news reporting.
Chris Matthews is just who he is. He was the only one who has asked where is Bush? Our country is in the middle of an economic crisis and no address from our president. I believe we need to only watch the three above mentioned shows on MSNBC.
Media Matters gets MSNBC daily so we can still e-mail every day when they lie and when those Nielson ratings go down they will get it.
They blame K.O. and Chris for their ratings during the DNC convention but it was their coverage which made people turn to C-Span.
Obama said it best We The People of The United States of America have to defend our own rights and let MSM know we are not STUPID!

[defendandprotect]

115. The best "campaign is to turn them off & tune them out -- !!

[bridgit]

121. With a degree in public policy from Stanford, I just find Rachel more honest...

in her grasp of casting the events she covers and is clearly concerned with. Matthews & KO are for me degrees of 'less so', perhaps because they've come to their positions via...separate pathways so as to suggest.

Matthews is in that chair at MSNBC, and too many people forget; due to the self-righteous indignation circling round and all about Bill Clinton's zipper at the time. His experience as 'a dem' notwithstanding; Matthews took the path of least resistance to a level of career he would have never hand access to without the trumped up product of Richard Mellon Scaife's years old by then: Arkansas Project. People here at DU vacillate between loving him & hating him because imo he's too often less than 50/50 right. So when he spouts something that makes sense it's all, "Yippie!! He's on our side!! Tweety!! You RAWK!" but make no mistake: he's a political thug and he's proud of it. Too ready & willing to physically pick others up and dance them around on TV coast to coast like rag dolls. He's primarily imfo on his own side; the side of his career, his mortgage, the education of his children; and while all admirable ultimately on the side of the format & media demographic that makes all that possible...enter Keith Olberman,

The Countdown format being setup as an entertainment, has been tinkered with throughout it's inception till it has reached the outlines we all see today. KO's demographic only really took off alternately proportional in the positive due to bush's descending inability to push back and declare people un-American terrorist loving traitors out-of-hand. The 'special comments' became more & more pointed, the voice began to bounce off the sets behind, the rhetoric more strident, the opinions as though being expressed for the entire nation and the world beyond, and all with a newer & newer ability to do so. I've seen it happen with many entertainers...then the ego kicks in, that fresh bounce in one's step due to a fan based support system, the sense of tenure that flows, a drawing power an agent or media 'show me the money' lawyer can negotiate with favorably...and the ultimate clash of *media titans* = Matthews & KO,

I know I'd disapprove of sitting next to Matthews while he espouses what *he thinks* are really super key points about thug politics and dumb-ass shit cycle after cycle, and I'm sure his off camera comments are intolerable on a host of issues. KO should have never taken the bait, he should have seen it coming/been more professional cause the on-camera result was that America tuned into a piece of scenery in which two different kinds of Fish Wife; one brutish, testy & cruel, the other always with a knowing little smile delivering esoteric little digs about the ineptitude of others were married to each other just going to town like no one else's business. And I'm not even going to get into Morning Joe cause he's among the strangest media alloy out there.

For me the short of it is that you want to save someone save Rachel. The rest are big boys in a man's world, and if they want to act like little bitches that's their choice to do so.

[eagertolearn]

125. Kick'd and sent a letter. Thanks for posting this! n/t