Can anyone help me with information regarding "live birth abortion"?

[Madrone]

What's the REAL story? I've never delved into this subject because, well, I know the neocon manipulation game all too well. A non-issue in my book, and certainly not anything they try to frame it to be. My time was better spent on other issues.

NOW, however, I have someone asking me about it. She's a completely non-political person that's only JUST started kind of listening to political things after hearing me speak about some issues, and why I identify as a Democrat. She told me yesterday that she saw a clip of Palin's RNC speech that she'd heard me ranting and raving about - she only watched it because she knew it pissed me off and she was curious. ANYWAY - someone sent her 2 videos basically detailing why Obama is the anti-christ, accusing him of infanticide. :eyes: She wants to know about it - what I think. I think she is starting to trust my opinions and my judgment. The problem is - "THOSE VIDEOS ARE HORSESHIT" is not, in my opinion, enough. I need to explain to her WHY.

I've done some looking online and most of what I find is wing-nutter's "moral outrage" and propaganda. I'm sure DU has someone that's done a lot of research into this and can explain it honestly and in a more detailed manner than my "IT'S HORSESHIT" response. I want her to have information that she can think about - so she can understand the complexities and the TRUTH of the matter.

Anyone?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. The term the Republicanites use is "partial birth abortion," which is NOT a medical term

just a term that the Republicanite spin doctors came up with. I forget what the actual medical term is.

It is an extremely rare procedure that is used ONLY if the mother's life is in danger.

[leftofcool]

2. try 'partial birth" abortion instead.........google

[Shakespeare]

7. That's not even a medical term--it's a purely political title.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion#.22Partial-birth_abortion.22

It's also extremely rare, and generally only done when either the mother's life is in danger, or the fetus is so profoundly deformed that it won't survive.

[rainy]

3. The Obama thing is that he didn't vote for a law because there was

already one on the books that did exactally what the new law was to do. Don't know the specifics. I do believe that no baby should be aborted that has a chance to survive at the time of abortion. If the mother's life is at risk cant they save the baby too? I never got that either.

[leftofcool]

4. "If the mother's life is at risk cant they save the baby too?"

Not always. Depends on the medical problem of the mother.

[kestrel91316]

5. There is no such medical thing as "partial birth abortion".

That is an invented term - by the anti-abortion crowd.

The proper medical term is "intact dilation and extraction", which you can google and find out all you need to know. I would recommend sticking to legitimate medical websites as laypersons are not well qualified to discuss it.

[niyad]

6. there is no such medical procedure. the proper term is intact dilation and extracton,

(partial birth abortion is another bs emotionally loaded term from the reichwingnuts) and is only used in rare instances where the life of the woman is at risk.

http://www.now.org/eNews/sept2003/092903ban.html?printable

[dflprincess]

8. I think, in this case, they might be referring to the rare occurance

where a fetus might survive whatever procedure was used to terminate the pregnancy.

When Obama was in the Illinois legislature he voted "present" on a bill that would have required doctors to do everything possible to save a fetus that survived an attempt to abort it. Obama voted this way at the behest of Planned Parenthood because amendments were made to the bill that made it absolutely horrible (but I'll be damned if I can remember what and I'm too lazy to look it up). Anyway, it's this vote that seems to have the wingnuts screaming "infantcide".

It's bogus.

[Madrone]

10. dflprincess - From what I've found I believe you're right.

I didn't watch the either of the videos in question all the way through (I was getting ready to leave for work) but there was a nurse on there being interviewed that was talking about "babies" (plural!) put in a room somewhere and left to die - some over a long period of time while in extreme suffering. Of course, the reason I've never paid attention to this story before is the absolute stupidity of believing ANYONE thinks that's just awesome! Of COURSE Obama doesn't - to think otherwise is just extreme reaching and pure idiocy.

Anyway - I don't know the full story on those "babies" - didn't watch the entire video and haven't, as I mentioned, had too much time or luck in finding any information so far.

Yeah, I already know it's bogus, and did without even having to know anything about it! But when I have someone completely new on the political scene and just barely starting to pay attention I want to give her more information about the actual circumstances and the truth behind it all. She doesn't have the same jaded cynicism I've developed regarding Republicans and their bullshit over the years - her bullshit detector hasn't been fine tuned. ;) I want to help her understand WHY it's bullshit - not just tell her "It just is".

[uppityperson]

9. There is no such thing as a "live birth abortion". Contradiction of terms there.

If you mean IDE, there has been outrageous propaganda against the practice, which very rarely ever happens, and has laws ruling it anyways.

If you have a live birth, you cannot have an abortion of the same event.

[holiday]

12. hope this link helps

:o)



http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm

[Madrone]

14. Awesome!!!

Thanks!! Still looking for more - but that's an excellent start! :thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

17. Thanks. I realized after I posted that there is such a thing, just very very rare.

and there are laws in place already. Thanks for the link, that is good.

[Madrone]

11. No guys - it's not "Partial birth" abortion they are talking about.

It's "botched abortions" There was a bill presented in the IL senate that Obama voted on that has the nutters all in a TIZZY - claiming he endorses infanticide.

[No Elephants]

13. factcheck.org did an article on this, but the article does not seem objective.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html

[Madrone]

15. I found another good link - if anyone besides myself is intersested.

the factcheck.org link made me think about media matters - there are a NUMBER of articles there about it. Including one entitled "Myths and falsehoods regarding Obama's votes on "born alive" bills" - here's the link:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200808220022?f=s_search

I'm still going to dig up some more if I can later.

[ieoeja]

16. Ironically, it was form of ... tort reform.

The very thing the Republics love. Except that Obama voted for it, and it involved abortion, so they turn a 180o and start hammering him for it.

[Madrone]

18. An update for anyone interested -

I talked to the young woman that prompted this post this evening regarding what I've learned on this issue. She understood exactly what I was saying - and she told me that when she first saw it she thought it sounded unbelievable - but she didn't know. That's why she asked me - she figured I'd know and help her to understand without treating her like she was stupid. For the sake of full disclosure I do let her know that I am fully and 100% biased in my opinion - but that's not blind bias, that's bias well cultivated and EARNED after watching the political scene since the 80's. I'm only biased because I've learned what to expect from republicans by paying attention.

Anyway - I started the conversation by asking her to think about the charge of Obama being "pro infanticide" and asked her if it made SENSE. Could she imagine ANYONE thinking that? Then I explained the vote - why Obama voted as he did, and what it meant. She grasped all of that easily. I threw in a final disclaimer that of course, if someone is rabidly "pro-life" it doesn't matter why he voted against it - the fact that he's pro-choice alone is completely evil to them and they will NEVER agree or understand his position - and vice versa on the pro-choice side.

I hope I did well - I wanted to let her know what I thought and present the facts from my perspective but still challenge her to make up her own mind and use her own common sense to weigh things she hears.