My mom and Palin supporters.....

[moez]

I spoke with my mother the other day and she and many of her friends (all long time Democrats) are voting for McCain / Palin. The reason for it isn't really complicated - a short tour through these boards illustrates it pretty nicely.

There are endless posts about "are women seriously stupid enough to vote for her...", threads bashing her mothering ability, threads implying that she can't manage both her family and the vice president job, and the latest ones ridiculing her for not wanting to be called a pig.

These threads and talking points do NOTHING but help McCain / Palin!

Many women (my mother and many of her friends included) went through the years being passed over for jobs for non-job related reasons (i.e. perceived family reasons, or anything else NOT related to the job). Also, they spent more than their share of time listening to men diminish their thoughts and opinions at work (i.e. "are they seriously stupid enough...", "if she can't handle that how can she handle the job, etc.).

What my mother and many of these other women are seeing is a woman going through the same thing that they had to deal with over and over and over. Palin is being bashed for being a working mother, for not being able to "handle" the job, and myriad other non-specific "issues".

We need to address the actual issues and leave the other crap alone. Talk about Palin's views on reproduction rights, her weakness on foreign policy experience, or ANYTHING else that is actually germaine to the actual job. Every time she gets blasted on these other issues, we're practically handing her another vote.

I don't believe that these women are "irrational" or "stupid". I think many of them are not as plugged into the daily blogs and news as many here are; with that, they are striking back at what they perceive as unfair treatment aimed at Palin. It's a gut level reaction that will stop only when we begin to focus on issues and leave the other shit alone.

[leftofcool]

1. Exactly

[melody]

2. Even if they're voting against every issue they're trying to protect

Palin is the most anti-female of females.

[crim son]

7. Yes.

There is something not quite right about these "democrats."

[melody]

12. Forgive me, but the word that comes to mind is "idiots"

As I've said, we lost the idiot vote a long time ago.

[crim son]

34. I try to keep a civil tone.

:P Seriously, I think a great many voters don't think about politics at all and vote reflexively for the party they've always voted for. When something attracts their attention, suddenly they begin to think about it, but only it - in this case, Palin. They do not become great seekers of the truth, but are motivated in a way they haven't been before. Tunnelvision.

[bullwinkle428]

3. "Long-time Democrats" should certainly know why a vote

for McCain/Palin is an "epic fail" on multiple counts; all of which have been reviewed ad nauseum on this site as well as many others.

[MrsT]

4. I like all these "I know so many long time Democrats voting for McCain/Palin" posters

coming out of the woodwork now. I don't know a single person who has been swayed by the pick, except people who already going to vote for McCain.

Not. One.

[melody]

14. same here n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

22. Amen!

While I actually agree with not focusing on Palin, the fact is that ANY mother in America that votes based on the way Palin is treated in the media or on DU is inherently STUPID. I also believe that as a family member, it is your responsibility to call them out on their stupidity. This is the perfect example of working locally to help secure the victory of Obama and Democrats. Small individual efforts by millions of people does have an effect!

I also know of no person that has decided to suddenly vote for McCain/Palin simply because they are miffed at some perceived slight by the media against Palin. While that is the message being pounded by the GOP and their allies on hate radio etc., I don't believe that it is true.

[Patiod]

98. That' a fallacy of logic

We in the market research call it "mother in law" research - as in "my mother-in-law doesn't like it, so no one will" or "I don't know a single person who has been swayed by the pick except people who already going to vote for McCain."

Just because you don't know anyone doesn't mean it's a fantasy of some supposed DU Trolls or something.

I have some idiot friends and relatives - maybe you don't.


.

[girl gone mad]

107. You could point this criticism toward the OP, too. n/t

[alsame]

104. Me neither. McCain doubled down on the crazy and that is

only attracting those who were leaning toward him anyway, not those who were skeptical to begin with.

[girl gone mad]

106. Me, too.

In fact, my Republican working mother LOATHES Palin because she thinks she is getting a free ride because of her looks.

[Stuckinthebush]

114. Yup

I'm not buying it.

[crim son]

5. I don't have any comment about your mother's rationality,

but I will state that voting for somebody simply because she IS a woman makes no sense to me. It would seem that democrats who vote for Palin/McCain really have no convictions about the issues at stake. Our country's future hangs in the balance; I understand that these women may be acting on principle, but there are more than on principle to be considered here, and voting for repukes because there is a woman on the ticket is, quite simply, foolish.

[patrice]

6. I'm sorry, I don't know why anyone would think posters ARE necessarily honest about their

party affiliations nor whom they support. They know what kind of reaction their hideous writing gets from your mom and her friends and that's why they do it.

Lying means very very little to very very many people.

[cali]

8. Yes. Let's let Palin lie and smear and treat her with kid gloves.

And sorry, I think women like your mother are completely missing the boat. They're voting in a reactionary way that is self-defeating. I mean seriously, did you mother EVER support dem principles? Does she care about choice or the constitution or anything beyond her personally relating to Sarah Palin?

Thank goodness my own mother wouldn't dream of voting for Palin. She actually believes in democratic principles and issues. Sad yours doesn't.

[Statistical]

9. Agreed.

Agreed.

Obama WINS on the issues.
All Obama has to do is layout the differences and he wins.

People say "xyz won't vote for Palin just because she is a woman".
No f**king kidding. That was never the plan.

McSame pulled Palin to use her as a shield to protect himself from the issues.
Every attack on Palin pisses a few more women off.
Not a lot. Most women will still vote for Obama.
Some (even a few %) can change the vote in a close state.

[RollWithIt]

10. Your post is an oxymoron.... your mother doesn't read blogs or pay attention...

But you're complaining that there are posts on this board that are making her want to vote for McCain. If she's not "plugged in" then how does it affect her?

[faithfulcitizen]

11. Why don't you inform them that Palin is the woman they were passed over for, as she is UNQUALIFIED?

Sorry, any woman who was thinking about voting for Clinton and has switched to McCain/Palin, may not be "stupid", but are most certainly woefully ignorant.

[CatsDogsBabies]

13. I thought she was being bashed because she is not qualified nt

[marylanddem]

15. Sorry, but I'm skeptical - "long time Democrats" are not going

to vote for Palin because she's being "abused." If they're stupid or searching for a reason to be racist, perhaps - but I just don't buy your argument.

[driver8]

36. I agree -- how could someone call themselves a "democrat" and

vote for McCain/Palin? They go against EVERYTHING that our party stands for.

I'm throwing the bullshit flag on this one...

[Lorien]

52. I agree. They ARE completely ignorant and foolish if the OP is being

even slightly honest. I'm a woman who has gone through hell in my corporate (BIG corporate) job over the past 20 years, all because I was not born a man. I don't identify with Palin in the least! She's the kind of woman I've seen in corporate boardrooms who will attack and ruin ANYONE to get what she wants. She's not a friend to women or anyone else. She'll gladly put a knife in her best friend's back if it will advance her career. Anyone who has spent time in the corporate workforce sees her for what she is; not a "victim", but a bully. The OP is BS.

[Not a robought]

16. Your mother and friends are going to vote for a ticket who have

done nothing to advance the progress of women thanks to what some posts illustrate on DU????????????????

You spoke with them, what did you say????

[seabeyond]

17. being your mothers age, i can say.... using sexism where there is none is MORE harmful

to our cause. and being so old, i recognize the harm of all the decades i have had to deal with sexism and how we are making that word insignificant with these stupid allegations when there is a REAL issue out there

maybe you can explain to your mom the reality is.... obama did NOT call palin a pig

that palin holds up her family values and parenting as CAUSE to elect her using that very issue your mom does not want the other side to use and the hypocrisy of having it both ways. IF your mom has problems with people using her parenting against her, maybe she should not have used her parenting, outed her children. as a parent, as a mom, i would NOT put self before my kids

there is so much wrong in what you post. and for you to lay down and pretend there are not holes all over your mother and other womans thinking that is causing us incredible harm, all us women is incredibly bad for women as a whole

this is the party that hold women down. now they are doing irreparable damage to women giving us a woman that is "hot" and a parent, ergo can rule the world.

why aren't these women pissed that we are given someone so inadequate?

[CatsDogsBabies]

18. And some women who have worked really hard for what they have

might think Palin hasn't paid her dues, that she is getting a pass on being qualified because she is a woman, etc etc

[madmom]

19. Funny I've gone through some of the same things as your mother, but I can see Palin

for what she really is and I will vote and work for Obama/Biden!!!!!

[seabeyond]

20. this woman gives more rights to rapist, than the raped. she has so little compassion for a woman

raped that in order for crime to be investigated by the police the raped have to pay cash.

and you MOTHER doesnt have an issue with that?

are you friggin pulling my leg

[eShirl]

21. frankly, I think their real reason is they're racist

[Raineyb]

70. I agree

And the whole "I've seen the same thing happen to me in the workplace" meme is weak sauce to say the least.

As a child I've always been told that I have to be twice as good to be seen as half as competent. Nothing about this current election cycle has disabused me of this notion. The idea that people (especially those claiming to be long time Democrats) would vote for the Republicans despite the shithole that they've put the country in, for another 4 years of hell instead of voting for someone who's clearly thoughtful and put a lot thought and expertise into his plans because the man is black shows that what I've been told as a child hasn't changed one whit. It's pathetic. And the extremes to which people, including Democrats, go to in order to make excuses for this behavior is absolutely disgusting.

Regards

[Patiod]

99. I agree that it's probably more racism than anything

In a "mother-in-law" survey (not valid) I've found all the Democrats I know who are not voting for Barack are actually racist.

And sadly, not the kind where I SUSPECT they're racist, but the kind where they ADMIT they're racist.

[lapislzi]

23. I have yet to see a single post suggesting that Ms. Palin cannot "handle" her responsibilities

as they stand right now. Along with many women, I applaud her ability to hold a governorship of a male-centric state while still making time for family life. I think that's a great thing, despite the fact that I disagree with her on every single issue and I have a feeling she's not a very nice person. Still, her accomplishments speak well for women.

No, moez. You're getting it all wrong. To quote an oft-used phrase on these boards, "it's the hypocrisy, stupid."

Here are the things I criticize about Ms. Palin:

1. She might be an affectionate and effective mother (I don't know). However, her advocacy of "abstinence only" education is irresponsible and has no doubt contributed to the circumstances surrounding her teenage daughter's pregnancy. It is a stupid policy, and it doesn't work. Period. The evidence is right in front of your eyes. I call that hypocrisy.

2. It is laudable that she CHOSE to bring a special needs child into the world--although the circumstances of that pregnancy and delivery lead me to question her judgment in a major way. Likewise, it is laudable that her daughter has chosen to carry her pregnancy to term. However, she is prepared to do everything possible to deny me and my daughter the same choice. I call that hypocrisy. I do not want her or any other person in government telling me and my daughter what to do with our bodies. Period.

3. Because she is probably quite well-to-do (and a government employee), Ms. Palin probably has all the help she needs in the form of child care and medical care for the special needs child. Still, she voted to gut funding for special needs education in her own state. Other working moms have far fewer options with regards to child care and medical coverage. Ms. Palin holds a uniquely privileged position. Her party has certainly made no moves to reach out to working women in need of health care and child care. Most working women will never have the support or opportunities she has enjoyed. I call that hypocrisy.

4. If she is unprepared to face the softball questions of a TV newscaster, what on earth makes you think she is prepared to face world leaders? What "deference" can she expect from the likes of China, India, and Saudi Arabia? I call that hypocrisy.This is the big leagues. There is no crying in baseball.

I have "alerted" and deplored all the spurious and salacious postings about Ms. Palin. I agree that they are not relevant or appropriate, and they hurt our cause. But the gender-hypocrisy that is at the very root of the McCain/Palin candidacy is very relevant and must be exposed and discussed. Maybe THAT is what you should tell your "long time Democratic" friends and relations who, like McCain, "just don't get it." Unless there is another agenda here...and maybe I'm just not getting it.

[progressivebydesign]

56. I don't applaud her "ability to hold a governship" while raising a family.

Considering we NOW find out that she worked at home more than she went to the office, that she exploited the $$$, and that she was a pretty awful governor. I applaud women who HAVE to be at their job cleaning up after people in a motel, 40 hours a week (riding the bus to get there), and somehow manage to feed and care for their 5 children on minimum wage. I don't applaud the wife of an oil exec, who pulls down a fat salary, and can choose when she feels like working.

[lapislzi]

57. Point taken. You are right.

I was trying (unsuccessfully, obviously) to point out that nobody here is denigrating Ms. Palin's accomplishments, slim as they are. That's not what we do here.

And you are right about who is more deserving of credit. I was that woman once--OK, I don't have 5 kids, but I was a single mom with no health insurance. I managed to claw my way to a comfortable position, but I will never cease having empathy for people who are in the position I was in and trying to help them in any way I can.

Thank you for pointing out what I should have been saying.

[renate]

73. this post and your #23 are very gracious, compassionate, and eloquent

I just wanted to tell you that. :applause:

[lapislzi]

79. Thanks.

Pshaw. :blush:

:pals:

[Virginia Dare]

24. They sound very ignorant and stupid..

they sound like they let the mainstream media brainwash them. These are the types of people who voted for Bush because they felt they could sit down and have a beer with him. I just hope that the less ignorant women in this country save them from themselves. There's too much at stake for people to think this way anymore.

[BumRushDaShow]

25. WTF?

The reason for it isn't really complicated - a short tour through these boards illustrates it pretty nicely.

There are endless posts about "are women seriously stupid enough to vote for her...", threads bashing her mothering ability, threads implying that she can't manage both her family and the vice president job, and the latest ones ridiculing her for not wanting to be called a pig.

So millions upon millions of "mothers" are reading DU? You are kidding right?

:rant:

The M$M TV media has been totally shilling for Saran bin Palin for 2 weeks yet they spent 19 months picking through every kindergarten paper and utterance of Obama, his wife, his father, his grandmother, and his half-brothers and half-sister...? Yet Saran bin Palin gets a pass? Where were you when they were claiming that Obama's grandmother and his half-brother lived in "squalid huts"?

For those who get on this discussion board and claim that so-called "Democrats" are shifting to repuke because of "blogs" and thus people should shut up, IMHO, they don't belong here. This just plays into the facists who wish to suppress dissent of their fabricated facist queen, because they'll come back around and point here and say "BOO!" and people are supposed scatter like roaches. IMHO, if one doesn't have time to support the American Constitution, then go elsewhere. Certainly facists don't support it.

The posters here do NOT represent the Obama campaign. The Obama campaign has and will continue to be on-message with the issues. I wish people would stop linking this place to the Obama campaign and then whining about how repuke lunatic fringe media points here, and that is supposed to be a justification to shut people up. :eyes: Time to flash your mirror at them to look at.

This is MY opinion.

[TwilightGardener]

26. They're irrational and stupid. "Reactionary" voting is for idiots.

[ashrob123]

27. Well, I don't know your mama

but I'll tell you this. Any long time Democrat who was voting for Clinton based on his/her political beliefs who who are now voting for McCain because of perceived sexism is a liar. They are voting for McCain because Obama is Black. Period.

And no one can tell me otherwise.

[phillysuse]

28. Bet your Mom didn't vote for Shirley Chisholm when

she ran for President.

Your Mom isn't a Vagina American - she is a racist.

[gabby garcia]

29. thanks for you concern

but I'm guessing these "long time Democrats" were voting for McCain anyway. Perhaps their view is colored by something besides gender.

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. Bullshit! I'll bet I'm of your mom's age, and there's no excuse for it!

Ask your mom how she feels about continual, premeditated lying? If she's ok with that, she's a fraud as her candidates are.

I'm a woman too, and I'd like to personally kick every soccer/hockey/whatever mom's ass. With pleasure. They vote their attitudes and prejudices regardless of our country. Twice is all I'll forgive them for. Fuck them!

If they bring us down, so be it. But none of us should cater to their sorry asses anymore. Let them think or be damned!

[LiberalEsto]

31. It's 3 a.m..... the phone rings...

Do they seriously think Palin is prepared to handle an international crisis?

[Hamlette]

32. which blogs does your mom read? And her friends? They are the worst kind of sexist.

first you say they are upset about the attacks on Palin then you say they don't read blogs.

the media has handled Palin with kid gloves, its only the blogs that have attacked her.

So how can they be supporting her because of the blog attacks when they don't read the blogs?

My mother, a VERY strong Hillary supporter, who worked outside the home her whole life and lived in Alaska for years thinks Palin is an insult to women everywhere.

I agree with her and I'm a mother who worked outside the home my whole life.

Voting for someone because of his or her sex is sexism. We should fight it or ignore it.

[chelaque liberal]

33. Why are you buying into that?

This is all a mind game and you are giving it credibility. The Republicans are using the legitimate anger and pain that women have (for reasons that they are often responsible for) and manipulating it to their advantage. They are creating myth of Sarah Palin, a victim that many women can relate to, but it is simply not true.

Sarah Palin accepted the nomination for what could be the most powerful position in the world. That alone puts her in under a microscope, as it should. She is the one whose decision to put herself in that position exposed her daughter to scrutiny, not the other way around. If she were a man with a 17 year old unwed pregnant daughter running for VP it would not have been ignored either. They made the announcement and then claimed media harassment and sexism because it was reported. Poor Sarah.

I heard one of their people say, "They told her she should abort her Downs Syndrome baby." That evokes a very visceral response from women, especially from mothers with special needs children. But exactly who are "they"? We are obviously to assume that it is "all Liberals," but who said it? One person? Was it said at all? Doesn't matter. Poor Sarah.

Obama never called her a pig. You know that. But the Right Wing made that up and it doesn't matter if it is true or not. Poor Sarah.

If it is pointed out that being the mayor of a town of 7,000 people is different than being the leader of the free world, then not only is poor Sarah being bashed, so are all small towns.

Don't let them play with your head like that, or your mother's.

[moez]

35. It feels odd to respond to my own post....

But there are SO many responses in this thread that perfectly exemplify my point. All kinds of paternal responses diminishing their feelings.

I used essentially this same post in another thread yesterday (and was oddly not flamed) - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6998054#6999534

In that thread, Saracat responded to threads such as yours with the following

"I would love to ask these women.. so how does your identification with her FIX THE ECONOMY? They are pissing away the entire planet's survival because they read too many women's magazines."

It is condescending and patronizing. I do not support Palin. I think women's real and justified anger is being turned against their own interests . But many women are supporting Palin only to send a message. I think this is the wrong time to take that approach but implying they are stupid when in fact many of them are PHD's, doctors, lawyers ,educators, and scientists is not going to be scoring you any points nor will it get you any votes.

Many of these women do not see their vote as "making a difference" in this election. Some are reinforcing that statement every time they say the women can be "replaced" Many women see themselves as having been discarded and treated with disdain after having fought their entire lives for equality.Calling them "selfish" when many have spent their lives dedicated to the betterment of others doesn't wash either.

I suggest we get to work and convince them that their work and dedication can be salvaged and that they must defend the Democratic platform in order to continue the fight of their lives.It is going to be tough for some to believe after what some have experienced but we have an obligation to get them to believe that their vote counts.

The GOP are asking for the women's vote. We should be asking for it as well

I was going to spend time trying to say the same thing... but, I think she really summed it up well.

I know that I'll never convince most of you. You'll put your fingers in your ears and run around saying "you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong" and never let anything else sink in. Then, when we lose in November, you'll run around and scream about how the election was stolen. Fine.

The point is - we win on issues. We lose on personal attacks.

[Waiting For Everyman]

46. Their reasoning is their own responsibility, not ours.

And it's defective. And when they vote their attitudes, yet again, I hope every one of them is among the foreclosed next time around.

Yes, a PhD who thinks like that is stupid!

[azmouse]

47. The person you just quoted causes me to not believe a word you are saying.

I don't think that person is a reliable source.

[renie408]

53. You know, I am really getting sick of the holier than thou shit around here. Yeah, the GOP has

proven how ineffective personal attacks are. For chrissakes, they ran two successful campaigns in a row based SOLELY on personal attacks. And they are well on their way to running another campaign based solely on personality and personal attacks.

Don't you get it?? Your mother and her friends EXEMPLIFY why personal attacks work. Honey, WHO STARTED IT? Who is running ads saying that Barack Obama wants to teach explicit sex ed to kindergartners? Who is raising hell about the 'lipstick' comment? Who attacked Obama for being a Muslim? Who came out swinging in her very first speech? NOT US. And WE are not the media. And if you mother is so goddam unplugged, how in the hell does she know what we are saying anyway?? Because the MEDIA is doing what it does and grabbing the most sensational stories and running with them.

Yesterday I would have agreed with the fact that personal attacks are not the way to win this election. But your mother just convinced me otherwise.

[Raineyb]

60. I suspect that you could bury them in paperwork on the issues

and they'd still vote for McLame/Palin. At the risk of going somewhere that I was not really trying to go today, I'd have to say that it is likely that they are not voting for McLame rather they are voting against Obama.

Regards

[WeDidIt]

37. I ain;t buyin'; what you're sellin'

Sorry, I don't beleive a word of it.

[DeeDeeNY]

38. No, they truly are irrational and stupid

No life long Democrat would want to see the Supreme Court swing to the right, to see women lose the right to choose, to see the country continue its downward economic spiral, military broken, totally unprotected for any disasters either from overseas or global warming.
Ask her how she draws the conclusion that because Palin is criticized for being a working mother, that means she is actually qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency of the United States???!!! Not to mention who she would be voting for at the top of the ticket --

[1corona4u]

39. WHAT THE FUCKEVER...

WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A JOB A YEAR FROM NOW, DON'T COME CRYING TO US...

[yardwork]

40. Your mother and her friends are voting for Republicans because they're mad about anonymous blogs?

Riiiiiiiiight.

[renie408]

50. Like all rational and intelligent people do. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

41. Gosh - the amount of money McPOW is spending to get you guys on here must be astonishing.

[lapislzi]

43. Nah...they'll do it for the sheer joy of spreading confusion among the enemy

Low information voters are not known for voting in their own economic interests.

[renie408]

51. Unfortunately for them, they don't realize that combining the phrase "long term democrat" with

"voting for McCain/Palin" does not confuse anybody here.

[Chloroplast]

93. Oh, the lower level workers don't get paid money.

They earn 'points' that are used to redeem 'prizes' (:eyes:) like a McCain hat or key chain. If you annoy enough liberal blogs, you can earn enough points to get a better seat at a McCain rally. I guess it's like those cigarette rewards programs: they offer you a pittance in the present to ensure your future is bleak and full of misery.

[glowing]

42. apparently your mom and her friends are much better off than myself and my family.

I work 60hrs a week.. my hubby 40 and ot if he can. We have 1 child. Our paychecks decrease everyday because of the increase in pricing everywhere. We are paycheck to paycheck. I don't give a shit who insults Palin.. Its NOT about Palin OR who OFFENDED them when they were at work. FUCK THEM!!! If they are Democrats, then they will care about their younger sisters that are being royally screwed for being A) a woman, and B) young and inexperienced so we can pay you nothing and if you don't like it, your fired. So, try and put it in perspective. Its not about who hurt them in their career.. Its who is going to hurt ALL Americans as an administration.. AND if they think Palin will have any responsibility in this admin (personally, I think McCain will kick her off before she is even sworn in). They know she's not qualified. They are using her.. AND that is worse.

[dionysus]

44. cough *bullshit* cough EPIC FAIL

:rofl:

[krabigirl]

45. I completely disagree. They are just buying the lies that the TV is telling them. My mom's the same.

But she loves Palin BECAUSE of her abortions stance, and because (gag) "she's a good Christian woman." SHe thinks anything negative about this woman is "false" because the news tells her everyone loves her. It's a sickness. We've never gotten along, and I can see why. She reacts with gut-level emotion to everything she's told. SHe never stops and thinks first.

[lapislzi]

48. She sounds like a large portion of the electorate.

The teevee said it; I believe it; that settles it.

Sound familiar? They say it about another pack of lies, too...but that's a different discussion.

[renie408]

49. I disagree. Whenever you vote against your own best interests based on a gut level reaction

you are irrational. Isn't that kind of the DEFINITION of irrational? Palin is more anti-woman than most male politicians. She will thrust the feminist movement back DECADES. So, if your mom and her women friends are voting for Palin based on some 'gut level' reaction to support a woman...they are both irrational AND stupid. Sorry, they can't be rational and intelligent, pro-woman AND voting for Palin. You have to let something go. They are either anti-woman or stupid and irrational. I'll let you pick which one they are.

[Raineyb]

54. I'm sorry but that is a lame ass excuse

Do these white women, and it is white women because there are very few black women spouting this nonsense, think that they are the only ones who have been passed over? Try asking any black person how they feel about promotions and what not. How many black people have had to be twice as good to be seen as half as capable? How many times have they had promotions dangled in front of them just to see someone who just walked in the door, someone white, get said promotion with some lame ass excuse given as to why you weren't offered teh position or worse to have someone deliberately sabotage your ability to get the position by a low balled performance evaluation. And yet, we've managed to vote for the Democratic ticket even when our chosen candidate didn't win. Surely you wouldn't say that we hadn't been frustrated by what we've seen in the workplace yet we have consistently voted for our best interested despite this without having our asses kissed. So I'm really not interested in hearing about the plight of the poor oppressed white woman in the work place and her frustrations as an excuse to vote for McLame. It doesn't wash. It's stupid and petty and something else which I won't say explicitly at this time, but appears to be the elephant, pardon the pun, in the room when discussing this presidental race.

Regards

[progressivebydesign]

55. I don't buy it. Your Mom's friends are all reading DU?

I mean seriously, no one really believes that women would vote for someone who is a republican, because people question why someone would vote for her. I believe these stories were peddled when Bush was running against Kerry. "oh dear! People are turning to Bush because someone people on the internet questioned their intelligence!"

Sorry, but any woman who votes against an unvetted, anti-women, anti-environment, anti-choice, tax and spend, crooked, woman IS stupid.

[Ron Green]

58. I call BULLSHIT

on this moronic notion that Palin's own struggle with family issues and a political career somehow qualifies her, in the minds of women who have struggled, to sit at the head of state in today's world.

FUCK. YOUR. ASSERTIONS.

[liberalpress]

59. If your Mother

can for for McCAin/Palin simply because Palin is a woman, then tell her she must be prepared to surrender any rights that are assigned to that gender. She'll have no right to choose, she''l be voting for acandidate that is pro-gun, pro war and anti-human rights. Apparently she can tolerate a vote for a woman that would result in a woman actiually repressing other women

[DangerDave921]

61. Agreed 100% and more

I've taken a beating on here trying to keep this debate to the issues. But everyone wants to delve into every little snippet of Palin's life like they're going to uncover the bombshell that detroys her. Bristol's sex life, Track's drug use, having alleged affairs, etc. It's utter stupidity.

And I might add hypocritical. Gore's son was caught smoking pot. Was that a huge deal? Of course not. Kids do stupid things all the time. To attack her based on her family life or kids is just plain dumb. I don't recall any investigation into Gore's daughters when he ran. Should there have been? NO.

[barack the house]

62. I understand that sentiment. Wherever I can I try to knock down any intentional sexism->

All I can suggest is to find the hunting photos of Palin print them out and that should highlight what a danger she is to everyone. Pictures speak louder than words.

prt scr edit paste to paint program

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CbE200L0Z4

[ensho]

63. I think you speak baloney

nt

[nam78_two]

64. Apparently there are many "long time Dems" out there who never knew why they were Dems

in the first place....:eyes:

Uh-huh....

[trudyco]

65. Wow this is the first group I've heard of that swallowed the "Paliln

is a woman so we women have got to vote for her" play. Do you think it is very widespread? Do you think they are saying this but really they are closet racists? Polls show that your mom is a very small minority. Most women don't buy Palin. Unfortunately some men do. Mostly it looks like she drew in the previously apathetic RW religious whackos.

If it is a big enough group then one would hope Obama will have Hillary (did they like Hillary?)on an AD talking to women voters about a qualified woman running for office versus a pretty face with lipstick. She could also point out the snarkiness of Palin - how Palin called Hillary a whiner and a *itch and NOW she claims Clinton is her women-in-arms buddy. The same Palin who can't give interviews because people aren't treating her nice enough (whine whine). Hillary could do an AWESOME commercial.

But none of that should impact DU. It's not like your mom and friends will read DU. Are you hoping that DU will provide better arguments that you could go back to your mom about? Kind of like Talking Points for this specific demographic? I've posted before that I'd love to have a spot that shows our own Talking points (short and sweet). Also counters to RW talking points (again something simple to remember).

What exactly is your purpose in this OP?

[vanderBeth]

66. I very much doubt they were long time Democrats.

[Armstead]

67. Sorry, but if they vote on that basis they are stupid.

She is a bonehead with awful positions and way too inexperienced to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. She also does nopt have the temprement to hold such a responsible position. ...That would apply to any male counterpart -- like George W Bush.

If those women can't see how, despite her accomplishments, Palin actually is supporting the system and political ideology that has kept them down over the years, then they have an inability to connect dots.

[independentpiney]

74. I agree, his Mom and her friends are stupid

if they will vote on that basis.

[cliffordu]

68. So your mother is going to blame what a bunch of people said on the innernet

for cutting her own throat?

Good.

[greguganus]

69. This reminds me of the stories that start out "I have a lot of black/gay friends, but...." n/t

[Franks Wild Years]

71. If these stories are all true, I don't think a woman could ever be trusted in power.

Let's be honest, previous western female heads of states have hardly covered themselves in glory, and the ultimate role model of the sort is Thatcher, a heartless, union crushing piece of excrement. Palin appears to occupy a similar station on the stretch of humanity.

So, if I'm to believe the 'evidence' presented to be on a base level, I would never vote for a female because it appears they'll either be exceedingly cruel and devious or easily led and swayed by the latest fad.

[lildreamer316]

75. Um...wow.

Okay then.
Wow.

[Franks Wild Years]

77. Please don't take my previous post at face value...

...it's just me trying to be as irrational as those who'll vote for Palin purely under the ridiculously misinformed notion that her election would represent a leap forward for woman-kind.

[lildreamer316]

81. I understand, it's just a bit

strident for me. I'm sure I'll get over it.

[roseBudd]

72. I go after nothing but the earmarks & hypocrisy

[Waiting For Everyman]

76. It's simple: they're lying to us now, so they'd lie for 4 years.

[K8-EEE]

78. I think they are stupid and irrational

If they think voting for this nutcase is going to make up for some job THEY didn't get or sexism they faced.

On the other hand, I have three older relatives that were either going McCain or not voting, who are now voting for Obama mostly because they have another kind of gut reaction -- she reminds them of bitchy, snotty women they've known. The stuck up mom at the PTA, the bitchy bossy. Two of these are in NV which is in now in play!

These reasons are just as stupid and irrational, but maybe there's just as many stupid, irrational reasons not to vote for her as REAL VALID reasons NOT to vote for her so, it's a wash!

[alfrankenaynrand]

80. Finally, a rational explanation

You are correct, sir. If the Democratic voters will see the world as it is, we can overcome this phenomenon. If not, we are doomed.

[WinkyDink]

82. I'm sure they were all for the original female V-P candidate, Geraldine Ferraro? No? Quelle surprise

Why don't you start a thread on "Palin's views on reproduction rights, her weakness on foreign policy experience, or ANYTHING else that is actually germaine to the actual job", then?

And maybe re-think about telling people how moronic your own mother is.

[WinkyDink]

83. (Duplicate.)

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. Accepting your argument for the time being.

The party should bring out Clinton, Boxer, Murray and other accomplished women to describe Palin's lack of skill for the job she's been asked to do.

[Binka]

85. Hey Sock Puppet your Mother And YOU Are Fucking Idiots

Fuck off.

[moez]

95. hmmmm......

what an intelligent, cogent argument you've put together.

you can go back to masturbating gloomily in your parent's basement now.

thanks for your input.

[Binka]

100. Sorry Honey I Have Three College Graduates To Speak To Today

They are my grown children and then I have to pick up my 7 year old at school after work. My parents BTW don't have a basement they live in a 6 million dollar home in La Jolla. You on the other hand can fuck off with your bullshit. :hi: Let's see how long you last here. :loveya:

[moez]

105. .

[beac]

86. Please ask your mother if she thinks rape victims should have to pay for their rape kits.

Because Sarah Palin does. The state of Alaska had to pass a law outlawing the practice for the SOLE reason of stopping Wasilla from doing this!

I could give two craps what kind of mother Palin is. The plain fact is that she is a LOUSY WOMAN! She is the anti-feminist.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you can't claim these women aren't 'plugged in' and then blame this and other boards for their outrage.

YOU have a responsibility to educate your mother! YOU have access to her AND the accurate info she needs. YOU can't let her continue to support Palin based on a tissue of lies about how 'mean' the media is being to her.

GET BUSY! YOU have a LOT of work to do.

[qwlauren35]

87. The basics are off-limits, but the EXTREMES need to be heard.

It's not the "working mother" issue any more, or the excessive sexual activities of the daughter of a pro-life hockey mom. I'm willing to let them go.

But a DIRECT accusation of child abuse, a sister who loses a custody battle because Palin crosses the line, and a son on drugs who slashes brakes on a school bus - those things need to be on the news.

And spun to make her into the power-hungry nut job she really is.

Oh, and sorry, but she's a lousy mother. In the end, no woman is going to want to relate to her for that.

You can't tell me that a lousy mother makes a good president.

[Celebration]

89. you are absolutely right on this

Never question whether she should be Veep with her family responsibilities. Just look at the evidence of the results of how she managed her family responsibilities. Train wreck.

[Union Label]

88. My mom went through that time and a lot of the same crap

my mom is also a lifelong Democrat, and one thing we can both agree on is that mcpalin is a POS! :evilgrin:

[ourbluenation]

90. talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Sorry - they will get what they deserve.

[CitizenPatriot]

91. qualified

first of all, no one called palin a pig.

Hello?

Why didn't you correct your mother on that one? McCain used the exact same phrase regarding Hillary, so if that is a reason to vote for someone, chalk that up to voting for the wrong person.

I haven't talked to one person who has changed their vote FOR mccain/palin, but I have talked to many Republicans and moderates who are NOT voting for McCain now.

If someone is voting for President based on identifying with the VP, that is truly scary.

You aren't picking someone to have coffee with. This person is going to talk to Putin and develop strategies for disarmament.

Our lives are in this person's hands.

is it too much to ask that the person fit the job description?

Independent presidential scholars have verified that she is the least qualified vp in over 100 years.

Now, people screech in the media about that word the the GOP has come up with all kinds of BS to counter that with, including the latest "stop being mean to sarah by asking her about her qualifications, now we won't talk to you." cowardice. But the facts are the facts, and no their opinion does not carry the same weight as a presidential scholars, and neither is hate radio man's opinion the same. There is such a thing as empirical fact. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Any woman who seriously would vote for someone out of pity is not a feminist or a democrat to begin with.

The woman isn't qualified. It was a reckless, irresponsible pick. It was irresponsible of her to agree to it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

92. she doesn't have a clue on issues that matter like the economy, foreign policy

she is controlled. She is not her own woman like Hillary Clinton.

[NOLALady]

94. I lived through those years

and experienced pretty much the same crap. I probably experienced worse as a black Southern female born at a time when Jim Crow ruled.

But, I have better sense than to vote against my best interests just because Palin is female.

Sorry, but I do believe those women are irrational. I could not vote for Sarah Palin anymore than I would vote for Alan Keyes or Condi Rice.

Sounds to me like they had no intention to vote for Obama and they are using Palin as an excuse.

[DeadEyeDyck]

96. YOUR MOM VOTES FOR IDIOTS

[Drunken Irishman]

97. Yeah, I hate to say it, but your mom does seem a bit irrational and stupid.

If that's the only reason your mother is voting, then I do have to question her intelligence. I at least can respect those who like Palin because they're politically aligned with her, but that doesn't sound like your mother.

[eridani]

101. Palin is the twit who shook her boobs in the boss's face and got the promothon

--slotted over your older and much more competent mom.

[shaniqua6392]

102. Women who vote McCain/Palin are traitors

to all other women of this country. Palin will strip us and our daughters of our fundamental rights of choice and equal pay or equal work, etc. I am sick to death of stupid women who are so easily led to the slaughter. I disagree with you that these women are not irrational or stupid. They are voting without information. They listen to a tiny bit of media and cast their votes based on that alone. They are willing to vote for a woman who has climbed the ladder of success by playing the VICTIM rather than on her own merits!! That is no woman that I am willing to admire or vote for. I am getting everyone I know and some that I don't know to vote for Obama.

[dkf]

103. Maybe they can't recognize some women truly are unqualified as are some men.

Which comes down to education education education.

Of course, if they want an unqualified woman in office simply to lord it over men, then there isn't anything we can do to help them.

[Butch350]

108. McCain/Palin '08 -- "The Bridge to Nowhere"

[ima_sinnic]

109. yes, because an UNQUALIFIED woman is far superior to a man with experience and

is just being discriminated against. For that matter, a woman, no matter how unethical, corrupt, conniving, dishonest, wantonly murderous of animals, greedy, and fake, is far superior to a man any day--to think otherwise is "unfair." :eyes:

You may not believe they are "irrational" or "stupid," but that is your opinion. If they are that easily fooled by one prewritten speech that didn't even state any positions, that only mocked and ridiculed without offering any alternatives, that mocked and ridiculed not only the Dem candidates but also community organizers and assorted others who are notably women in many cases--and though her positions on most issues are not really known, what is known is all anti-women's interests--and she refuses to answer spontaneous questions--what are we supposed to think about their mentality? Okay, they're not "irrational" or "stupid," they're effing fools who have absolutely no foresight or wisdom who are easily swayed by the latest bauble. They don't think very much, and I doubt any discussion of "issues" is going to affect anyone who doesn't think about issues anyway.

[Geek_Girl]

110. My Mom's the same way

she lives with me and stays home all day and watches CNN and sometimes even FoxNews. It's quite amazing to see how truly manipulative are media is. Every day she seems to move a little bit further to the right. She rarely leaves the house and doesn't have very many friends. Everyone she has contact with is pretty liberal. The only outside influence she has other than us is cable news.

In some ways it's kind of interesting to watch someone be brained wash by the news media.

[moez]

112. Geek_Girl.... you've made my day....

I was getting pretty dismayed by the fact that all of the "enlightened" responses to this thread. It seems that, since these people don't personally know anyone going through the same thing, one of the following must be the case: a) I'm a freeper "concern troll" bent on disrupting DU; or, b) my mother is a complete idiot, barely worthy of being called human.

Your mom sounds similar to mine - they're hearing bits of information that they interpret as "unfair bashing" by the media (by way of the internet blog sites) and it's shaping their opinions of the election.

[Geek_Girl]

116. I think many Duer's are little in denial about what is happening

The Obama camp really needs to take the gloves off and I think they will.

[Sparkly]

111. They read DU?

Or where did they encounter this wave of criticism of Palin?

[gauguin57]

113. No offense to your mother, but do she and her friends not read THE NEWSPAPER?

Sarah's extremism and hypocrisy are all right there on display, if someone chooses to be informed.

[butterfly77]

115. Well if they are voting for McCain...

do they really think that he will make things any better for women? If so then why?

[mitchum]

117. It's not my fault that YOUR MOM IS IGNORANT...

the burden is on HER to learn the truth

[demo dutch]

118. There is also an "I'm afraid of the black candidate" factor with older white voters