Blacks support Obama="Racial Identity Politics." White women support Palin="Cuz she's like them."

[EffieBlack]

This is really a fascinating phenomenon.

Black voters, who traditionally vote overwhelmingly Democratic, over the period of more than a year, after a vigorous campaign, gradually begin to support Barack Obama. The reaction in the press? A dismissive "Well, of COURSE they are voting for Obama - they're voting for the black guy."

A significant portion of white women, in the course of less than one week, swing dramatically away from the liberal Democrat Barack Obama to the right wing conservative Republican Sarah Palin. The reaction in the press? "They can identify with her because her life is like theirs."

So black voters, who obviously carefully weighed the options and made a rational choice on whom to support are dismissed as a bunch of ignorant bigots. But this group of white women, who have demonstrated an erraticism that is nothing less than bizarre and who obviously don't have a clue about the candidate they've suddenly come to champion (other than she's a mother and, of course, is white) are treated as the respected and much sought-after bellweather of the voting public.

Go figure.

[demnan]

1. I'm sure its a myth

I don't know one Hillary supporter who would even think of voting for a Republican.

[EffieBlack]

2. These aren't necessarily Hillary supporters

But a significant number of white women seem to have shifted from Obama to McCain in less than a week. I don't think this swing is permanent, but it is very interesting - especially as it not only suggests a rather sad cluelessness, at best, and a distinct strain of racism, at worst, among some of these voters but it once again puts into stark relief the breathtaking racial bias among the media in their treatment of black voters compared to their coverage of white voters.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. Significant? Show me.

Give me a link or poll results that say that a significant number of white women are turning to Palin. I have heard time and again how she has alienated so many people because of her acceptance speech, her views, her attitude. I think this is an intentional media spin ploy, and as a statistician I expect I will find the media's idea of "significant" laughable, as always.

[EffieBlack]

8. Here you go:

Washington Post/ABC News Poll of White Women Voters:

August 19-22
OBAMA 50%
MCCAIN 42%

September 5-7
OBAMA 41%
MCCAIN 53%

That looks like a pretty significant shift to me. I don't think it's necessarily permanent, but it is significant.

[EstimatedProphet]

12. OK. Thanks

Whether it is significant or not remans to be tested. The press likes to take words with specific definitions and throw them into things where they don't belong, and somtimes I think it intentional. This looks like a big shift, but over the course of one week it could easily be just a small blip with no consequence.

[EffieBlack]

14. I agree

When I say significant, I don't mean it's necessarily significant in the long run to the outcome of the race. But the shift among white women is significant enough to have affected the numbers, even if temporarily.

[jerryster]

23. We better believe it's significant.

That is one hell of a shift. The question is why? I don't have an answer and I'm concerned that the Obama campaign doesn't either. I just heard that the campaign has decided to stop talking about Palin and refocus on McCain. I'm not sure I agree with that strategy.

Palin will be interviewed this upcoming week on a national level. Unfortunately, the Republicans were able to pick the weakest kneed wimp in the bunch: Charlie Gibson.(Palin didn't dare go on Fox first. It would have been too transparent). Will Gibson have the guts to ask her questions like, "Do you still believe abstinence only education is the way to go". Will he ask her if she believes Jews need to convert to ascend to heaven? Will he ask her about aerial slaughter of wolves in Alaska? Gibson's the weakest interviewer they could find.

Getting back to the white women voters, have they been identified as to their origins? What I mean is, have a lot of white women Evangelicals come around to the Republican ticket? What are some other distinguishing characteristics? We need answers to those questions in order to try to stem this tide.

Lastly, have the wheels come off Obama's campaign a little bit? Gallup today shows McCain with a 5% lead. I also saw on the MSNBC crawl that Obama has a 2% lead in Ohio. That was immediately followed by a graphic that shows Obama with a registered voter advantage in Ohio of 900,000! So if he has only a 2% lead, what the hell is going on?

[EffieBlack]

26. I know why

and it makes me sad.

And no - "the wheels" have NOT come off of the Obama campaign. The election is not today. This is a CAMPAIGN, not a one-day contest.

[EstimatedProphet]

29. No, and your post is proof why

We need to take everything seriously, yes, but if things don't actually show a significant trend and we assume they are anyway:

1) we're going to misdirect energy that we should be putting somewhere else, and

2) we'll get depressed, and won't work as hard as we should.

The fact is, it is way too early to tell if this is a real trend or just a flash in the pan. We shoul develop a strategy, but we shouldn't commit ourselves to that strategy yet.

[krabigirl]

53. I still call bullshit.

[EffieBlack]

9. Delete - dupe

[demokatgurrl]

13. I don't have a link right now but will look for one because

I heard on the radio this morning that a recent poll showed that 1) Palin LEADS!!!! among white women, and 2) however, she has driven hard-core female Hillary supporters to Obama.


And as a white woman, I have to say that they most certainly did NOT interview me.

[EstimatedProphet]

31. That's exactly my point

Who did they survey? How many? What were their criteria for selection? Polling is a very complex activity, with numerous ways to unconcsiously or even intentionally bias the results. You'd be surprised at how often it actually does happen. I'm no polling expert by any means, and the methodology they used is probably way over my head, but the gigantic shift of voters in one weeks' time makes me leery.

[bklyncowgirl]

3. Tribal poitics will be the death of this country.

As I said in another post, Palin appeals to a whole range of tribes, hunters, rednecks and yes women. I'm just listening to Mika Bresinski on MSNBC nattering on about how the fact that she's a working mom is just too wonderful for words.

[EffieBlack]

4. Most black women have been "working mothers" for centuries

But, apparently, this status is only meaningful when white women claim it.

[knowledgeispwr]

16. I guess it's like how all those working class perople of color...

aren't "working class, blue collar folk" either. I'm honestly not surprised by anything that's happening, but that doesn't keep me from being disgusted by it.

[treestar]

19. And poor women have always worked

The luxury of staying home with your children only began with the Victorian upper classes. It even only became widespread in the 50s when the middle class began to get rich enough.

[ismnotwasm]

63. Right on

Thank you, THANK you for pointing that out.

The whole Palin thing makes me sick. She is NOT like me, I can't stand her politics, she has nothing but skin color in common with me. This good 'ol girl bullshit she's pulling may be somewhat effective right now, but I think it will backfire the more she is in the public eye.

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Mika Brezhinski is a paid mouthpiece

It'll be a while before I take what she has to say as representative of a national trend. Just saying.

[cali]

6. Racist bullshit. I'm so sick of it.

America doesn't want to admit that America is disgustingly racist.

[jcla]

24. Ayeah!

That is why Barack isn't leading in the polls after 7 years under a war criminal and his gang of thieves and murderers. I am to the point of figuring that the electorate is of the mentality "Better White than Correct".

[DeadEyeDyck]

43. I think we are seeing the Bradley

effect early.

[elkston]

51. Which is good. Better to have it out now so we can plan for it. n/t

[pdxmom]

10. There is a distinct bias in how this is being reported. And I'm also

hearing a good bit of reverse sex discrimination. They are slobbering over Palin being a working mother and how wonderful it is that she can do it all. I have heard not one similar word about how Joe Biden did it all by himself, after the death of his wife and daughter. He gets absolutely no credit for doing that, and doing it alone.

Mika is the worst out there. I heard her this morning (don't yell at me. It was on MSNBC when I turned it on this morning, cause KO was the last thing I watched last night) saying how being a mom gives her qualifications for being VP. Has anyone ever said that being a dad gives someone qualifications for being anything? Sorry, but I know a ton of dads who contribute equally to parenting (such as my hubby). Is it somehow more important to be a mom than a dad? It is, without a doubt, reverse sex discrimination, which marginalizes the contributions the male half of a family makes. My hubby is insulted by it.

[treestar]

18. I know that is just too stupid for words!

Many women are working mothers! That doesn't especially qualify anyone for anything! Suddenly the right wing has become ardent feminists! The hypocrites!

:rofl:

And yeah, working fathers should get just as much credit.

Michelle is a working mother, too, isn't she? So identify with her, wingnuts!

[Labors of Hercules]

20. No kidding! It is driving me INSANE that this has not even been mentioned...

far less HAMMERED ON by the press. It is sexism, and it is disgusting.

[bdamomma]

11. Palin is like them??

a woman who believes in the end times, does not believe in global warming shoots defenseless wolves from a plane with a rifle, sure she is like you, how stupid can people be to fall for this crap.

Again, Americans are the biggest BS'ers and the easiest to BS.

I would love to be proven wrong on that.

[zbdent]

15. I heard a RWer use a similar argument to rationalize his pastor vs Rev. Wright

Wright: "He (Obama) agrees with almost everything Wright does!"

his own: "Now I don't agree with everything that my pastor says ..."

Same thing, just different rhetoric ...

[treestar]

17. I'm trying to imagine the woman stupid enough to vote for McBush

just because Failin is a woman. Most white women I know who are stupid are already the type who would support McWar due to right wing idiotic beliefs.

Heck if they want to vote for someone on the shallow ground of being the same sex/race, why not point out to these idiots that McWar is a man and he's the one who will be in charge?

One thing that is mysterious here - why does the right wing suddenly think a woman can be in the highest office in the Executive Branch? Up until now, they asserted that women should be in the home and certainly one with a four month old baby should be (DS or not!).

[demokatgurrl]

25. Yeah, where's Phyllis Schlafly when we need her? n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

21. 90% of blacks support Obama. Women are more evenly divided between parties.

Women never vote as a block; if they did, Hillary would have easily won the nomination in the Democratic Party this year. But, there were enough women who supported Obama in the primaries to put him over the top.

Percentagewise, it is easier to talk about "identity politics" with blacks than with women. However, I agree that some women are voting for Palin because of "idenitity politics," but NOT a very large percentage. Most of the women who are voting for Palin are voting for her as Republicans or evangelical Christians. This is a different kind of identity politics from race or gender.

[Clio the Leo]

30. yep.........

And while I'm still not sure if the McCain camp was going after the female vote or going after the conservative vote under the guise of going after the female vote, one thing they DID not keep in mind:

We women hate one another and will do anything to keep each other from succeeding. :)

Only this time, it's a GOOD thing.

[EffieBlack]

32. You cannot look at one election and use it to claim

that blacks vote in "blocks.". In facy, if you look at our history, you will see that blacks are among the LEAST likely to engage in racial block voting.

In this cycle, both previous history and the facts of this campaign demonstrate that black voters are supoorting Obama for reasons other than race. The fact that, in the past, black voters have rarely supported black presidential candidates in significant numbers and only gradually grew to support Obama as the campaign went on - long after they first noticed he is black - proves this.

On the other hand a significant number of white women suddenly and abruptly switched their support from Barack Obama to John McCain within less than a week, apparently ONLY because Palin was added to the Republican ticket. That is considerably different than the black support for Obama, no matter how you try to compare the two situations

[Nikki Stone1]

35. Since the late 60s, African Americans have voted Democratic, a reliable block vote

but this year's 90% figure is higher than I've ever seen. There is some crossover from Black Republicans for Obama strictly on race.

White women have always been split between the parties, often based on religious and economic issues. I don't know what a "significant number" of white women (for Palin) translates into in terms of percentages. 1% could be signficant in a tight race. This isn't a lot of women, but it's enough to be a problem. I'd appreciate the numbers if you have them.

[EffieBlack]

37. What you're describing is not "identity politics" but "party politics"

Blacks vote Democratic because of the issues, not because of identity. Yet we are the first to be blamed for racial identity voting because we are voting for Barack Obama in large numbers, even though we have NOT voted in large numbers for other black candidates in the past.

[Nikki Stone1]

41. You claimed that AAs never voted in a bloc. My statement was to refute that.

Now if you want to talk about identity politics, this year is the only presidential example. We agree there.

Women, however, don't vote as a block, as women, for either party or identity purposes. They aren't this year either. If women this year were voting 90% for Sarah Palin (like the AA community is going 90% for Barack) then the Democrats could hang it up right now. McCain would be at 75%.

The truth is, women are split between the parties, and some are independents. The women who are going for Palin may be those independents. I don't know. But it is a small percentage of white women. I'd still appreciate the numbers if you have them.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

57. Black Republicans?

Both of them? :rofl:

African-Americans vote 90% as a block for Democrats. All of a sudden, when we finally have a black nominee, it becomes racial.

:eyes:

When a majority of white women prefer McCain because of Palin for no discernible reason other than race and/or gender, nobody calls that "bloc voting."

[BumRushDaShow]

22. Exactly.

:applause:

Case in point - in 2006, white and Jewish Fast Eddie Rendell ran for PA Gov. as a Dem against black former football player Lynn Swann, who was on the repuke ticket. The nonsensical polls had them running neck and neck through much of the race. The result? Fast Eddie got 60% vs Swann's 40%, where Fast Eddie got nearly 90% of the black vote.

Imagine that. :eyes:

If anything, blacks in the Democratic Party will vote >90% for the PARTY, no matter what race or religion or ethnic group's candidate is on the ticket. How many more times do we have to keep driving this point home while this fact continues to be ignored by the divisive RW lunatic fringe-biased media?

[Obamarulz11]

27. "The Media keeps racism alive and well"-Bernie Mac

[mzmolly]

28. Where is this talking point coming from?

I don't really buy it yet.

[protect our future]

33. deleted due to it was a stupid post.

[EffieBlack]

34. Not blaming - just pointing out that white women have gone from 50-42% support for Obama to 53-41%

for McCain in less than two weeks. The shift among men is a separate issue.

[protect our future]

38. Oops! You're right, Effie. I deleted my post before I read yours. nt

[Nikki Stone1]

36. Effie is worried because the Democrats rely on white women to win elections: white women have the

numbers. This election cannot be won without them. If white women who tend to vote Democratic (or who are independent) move to McCain because of Palin, then Obama could lose.

It sounds like the Democrats are really going to have to do outreach to the white community, specifically to women.

[EffieBlack]

39. I am so sick of us having to chase around stupid, bigoted white people begging for their votes

while kicking to the curb the most loyal members of the party - those of us who don't blow around with the wind and seem to be too ignorant to be able to make up our minds between Barack Obama and John McCain until a vapid, unqualified white woman shows up to break the tie.

No - it's time for the party to do just what Obama is doing . . . make a reasonable effort to reach those people but put his time and resources into attracting new voters, voters who previously haven't been included, voters who, if they turn out in sufficient numbers, will more than make up for the disloyal, clueless and useless voters who swing back and forth like the breeze.

[Nikki Stone1]

44. How do you know that your potential white voters are bigoted?

If you make an assumption like that, you will totally turn people off and LOSE votes.

I understand you are angry, but the nature of politics is that EVERY election you have to go out and beg for votes. You often have to beg for votes from people you don't like very much. You think Obama isn't begging for votes? Why is he criss-crossing the country? Why has he been away from his family for 18 months? It's not just about making a speech, "a reasonable effort": It's about hugging babies and eating soup with people at horrible little diners. It's about walking through mud and talking to people who might not be terribly enthusiastic about you. Politics IS about begging for votes. In the end, you want to WIN. So you get as many votes as you can no matter how many bigoted people you have to talk to and no matter how many stale donuts you have to eat.

This year, you are losing white female voters. It sounds like the time for outreach. You don't want to lose these voters; they reliably show up at the polls. New voters, especially new Democratic voters (usually young or marginalized) don't always show up. You need the dependable types that go to the polls.

So get out there and eat some stale donuts.

[EffieBlack]

48. I didn't say potential white voters are bigoted

I referred to bigoted white potential voters. Big difference.

[Nikki Stone1]

50. And how can you tell which potential white voters are bigoted and which ones are not?

Especially in regard to white women?

[protect our future]

40. Yep. That's why the media must address Palin's rape issue.

[Nikki Stone1]

45. I think that is a fantastic place to start.

This is something that all women can identify with. Palin has two strikes against her here:

1. She made rape victims in Alaska PAY for their own rape kits.

2. She does not believe in abortion in case of rape.

She is an EXTREMIST and is about disempowering women. I'll bet this handful of white female voters DOESN'T know this. The GOP has been very careful.

[cali]

49. Democrats do not need the majority of white women

to win, though they certainly need a hefty slice of that demographic. And grab a clue- if it's possible- Obama and the dems have been doing massive outreach to the white community.

Oh yeah, and we live in a sick racist culture.

[Nikki Stone1]

52. Hello Cali. Dems DO need the majority of white women (at least more white women than the GOP)

Because it's white women that put the Democrats over the top. The majority of white males vote GOP. It is the white females that make up the difference. If the majority of white women voted as white men did, the Democrats would never win. That's the truth and Rove knows that. Why do you think they picked Palin this year?

[cali]

56. Wrong, Nikki. Kerry won 11% less of the white female vote than bushy

Obama needs to keep it close but he doesn't need the majority of the white female vote to win- or the white male vote.

[Nikki Stone1]

58. And so he lost. (Which proves my point)

Losing the white female vote is a disaster for Democrats. Even only 11%.

[cali]

60. 11% is a huge gap- it's not "only 11%"

Kerry lost by far fewer percentage points than that. Had he only lost the WF vote by 7% with everything else remaining the same, he would have won.

[Nikki Stone1]

66. You don't get sarcasm, eh? :)

Cali,

You're not dumb, and you could come up with an interesting, creative and non-insulting thread about why all women should think twice before even considering voting for Sarah Palin. You could collect the evidence that we have on her: there's plenty out there. You could focus solely on her policies. You could get thoughtful women who stop by DU to actually think about their choice.

Why do you spend your time and your brain spewing rage-filled little tidbits of trash? You're better than that.

I challenge you: write a convincing thread as to why women should NOT vote for Sarah Palin. Keep it short, sweet and to the facts, providing links. Don't call anyone stupid.

I dare ya.

Nikki

[BklynChick]

42. it's so transparent

[Nikki Stone1]

46. What is transparent?

Just curious.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

47. Throughout the history of this great republic when black voters

were finally given their right to vote, the trend has been that blacks are MOST LIKELY to vote for WHITE CANDIDATES, even over black candidates. The notion that the black community is a monolith is as insulting as it is racist!! If it were indeed true that blacks vote based ONLY on color, then say hello to Senator Mike Steele, black Republican from Maryland who was defeated by Ben Cardin. Say hello to Senator Lynn Swann who was defeated by Bob Casey. How about President Al Sharpton, President Alan Keyes, Lenora Fulani or Jesse Jackson?

DUers, don't play sanctimonious and above reproach. During the primaries, many of you claimed that we blacks were supporting Obama because of his race. You ignored every argument that we put forth that demonstrated the fallacy of your assumptions.

And now the larger, mainstream is touting Mrs. Palin has a virtuous choice for women.

I point the finger at DUers who fell for this trap...and there were many of you!

[MadrasT]

54. Not THIS white woman!!!

Stupid white women, maybe.

Fundie nutjob white women, maybe.

But not this intelligent, agnostic, I-WANT-MY-CONSTITUTION-BACK white woman.

GOBAMA :woohoo: GOBIDEN :woohoo:

:kick:

[elkston]

55. What this says about the women who switched when Palin came along ...

is that their support for Obama was fickle from the get-go. And as someone mentioned in a post earlier, it could be an early indicator of the Bradley Effect.

Its quite possible that many lied to pollsters and planned to do something else entirely in the voting booth. Now that Palin is offered as an alternative they have a "cover" for their racism. They can claim a stronger bond to Palin since she is a woman and not have to explain why they chose McCain over Obama even if voted against their interests.

If we are seeing Bradley exposed this is very instructive for us because now we know more accurately the true margins of the race.

I have always said that Obama should subrtract 4% from every poll because of his race.

[Nikki Stone1]

59. Or, it may have been that a female on the ticket attracted a certain segment of female voters

(It doesn't always have to be racism.)

My guess is that the women who have switched to Palin don't know enough about her. They just know she is female and is a working mother. They don't know that she made women in her town pay for their own rape kits. That's the information that has to get out there.

[elkston]

61. Then we need a hard hitting ad now, and surrogates repeating this.

You're right, we should not just assume a "Bradley"-type discrimination. We need to do everything in our power to reach these voters.

[Nikki Stone1]

64. I didn't say assume Bradley or anything about Bradley

What I did say was to let every woman considering voting for Palin know EXACTLY what she stands for. No abortions if raped; you pay for your own rape kit; no protections against discrimination in the workplace.

I'll bet those independent women don't know that.

[elkston]

65. I agree. I mistyped my original message. I meant to say "not assume Bradley".

[Nikki Stone1]

67. Ok, I get it. Most women are caught up in the enthusiasm of Palin and they don't

know what she stands for really.

They also need to know that Palin was trained and mentored by Newt Gingrich.

[Claire Beth]

62. I'm a white female who proudly supports OBAMA! n/t

[Balderdash]

68. You need to be careful tossing the term racism around

I don't buy for a minute that there aren't any black folks that are voting for Obama just because he's black, they are. I live and work in DC and I know better, it's common knowledge and is talked about freely. I don't know what the percentage is but maybe it's about the same for white women.

Right here on DU, this bastion, this champion of feminism tried to paint Hillary supporters as racists, I'm no racist and it pisses me off that that word gets tossed around so freely. I'm old enough to have worked and voted to end racial inequality and am quite proud and happy to have done so. My grandson is half black and I love that young man like no other, heh, a white grandmother and a half black grandson, that I raised, where have we heard that before?

There may be some racism among the white women that changed over to McCain, I certainly don't think that it's the main reason. You run the risk of alienating other white women by crying racism all the time. I know that the tone of this post is bugging the hell out of me.

[EffieBlack]

71. Yes, I'd better be careful tossing around "racism." It's not a real problem like "sexism" is . . .

Let's not ever mention it at all - I'm sure that will make some people feel better.

Oh, and by the way - I'm sick and tired of being "warned" about "alienating" white women by having the nerve to question why some supposedly Democratic white women are so quick to run to John McCain rather than vote for Barack Obama. If pointing out the truth offends them, so be it. Maybe they need to learn not to be so damned sensitive.

[Balderdash]

72. I don't think it's white women that are being sensitive

and I'm getting the feeling that any disagreement with you will be considered racism. I'm a Democrat, sexism AND racism are not a part of my profile.

[progressivebydesign]

69. any woman that discards Women's Rights so easily doesn't deserve to be a woman.

C'mon, there is NO WAY in HELL that a woman can go from supporting someone that champions women's rights, equal pay, and reproductive freedom -- to someone who believes that women aren't even entitled to BIRTH CONTROL! Palin does NOT believe that women should have access to controlling how many children they should have!!!

Instead of being so fucking impressed that she has 5 children, they should ask themselves.. "how many children would I have I had not been allowed access to birth control???"

[progressivebydesign]

70. That's BS about Obama. If it were true then why isn't Al Sharpton or Alan Keyes president???

That's why I call bullshit on this stuff... if all it took was someone of color to get the majority of black voters, then we would have had a black president by now.

I call bullshit.

[BlooInBloo]

73. "Identity politics" more shit made up by white folks to cover their racism.