Seeking information regarding Obama's support of charter schools and his positions on teacher pay

[Frumious B]

So my wife, who is a public school teacher, and I were just watching Obama being interviewed on This Week... and when Obama mentioned he supported charter schools she hit the roof and then said that she is no longer voting for him. This is not an issue about which I am particularly informed so I was wondering if anyone can provide me links and resources. Are her concerns warranted here?

[madeline_con]

1. In Titusville FL he promised to review NCLB, and to raise

spell edit

teacher pay. He didn't mention charter schools.

Third one down discusses charter schools....

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Education.htm

Charter schools are not the same as a voucher to go to a religious school. Teachers who worked in the local charter school are working in my son's middle school this year. :shrug:

[shraby]

2. He has said time and again in his campaign

speeches that he will raise teachers wages and improve the schools! His stance on education is probably on his website.

[babylonsister]

3. Ask your wife if she's against choice, has no problem with r/w SC justices,

etc. And I imagine you can find what you're looking for here:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

[Orangepeel]

4. whatever it is, it's better than McCain's

Ask her how she feels about vouchers and then watch a clip of McCain extolling the need for them in his acceptance speech.

[annabanana]

5. Here is a link to his position on Education.

I do not believe he is interested in privatizing the schooling of America's children.
(See the links to .pdfs at the bottom of the section for more specifics)

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

[glowing]

6. Someone, anyone from Chicago? They are used out there... So, how do they

work, and do they work out there.. I know in Mass, there were a ton of Parochial schools, and they were kinda like mainstream schools.. but I didn't really get it.. I'm sure my teacher momma can explain it to me.. What is a charter school... What about Magnat schools.. are those ok?

[yellowdogintexas]

9. Magnet schools are within an existing public school system and you have to

compete to get in them. Varies from system to system.

We had them here for a long time, they were located within existing schools but run as a separate program w/more challenging curriculum and a variety of foci.

My daughter attended a Magnet Middle School that was Montessori, one of the feeder schools also had a Montessori Magnet. Preference was given to kids from that feeder, then other Montessori schools, then the other feeders in that pyramid then applicants from other schools. She had to take a test and apply.

[democrattotheend]

7. He's been endorsed by both big teachers' unions, if that helps

AFT and NEA have both endorsed him and they knew his position on charter schools. If the unions had a big problem with his position and thought it would hurt public school teachers they probably would not have endorsed him. He does not support vouchers, btw.

[Dora]

8. Perhaps there's confusion re: charter schools and school vouchers.

Both of these are promoted as means to broader choices in public education. If I understand it correctly, charter schools use public money and must meet certain performance standards or face closure. They are not subject to the same curriculum requirements as other public schools. The quality of charter schools varies hugely. Some schools are poorly managed, poorly taught, and financial shells for fraud and embezzlement. Other charter schools do a wonderful job. I myself have hopes of getting our son into a charter school that I know of when he is kindergarten age. There is no tuition for attending a charter school.

School vouchers give parents a voucher/coupon/ticket/rebate on the tuition they pay to send their child to a private school instead of a public school. The vouchers are publicly funded. Those who oppose voucher programs say that this funnels money intended for the public commons into private pockets - and they're correct.

I am quite in favor of charters, and against vouchers.

[madfloridian]

10. He does support charter schools....tell your wife to vote for McCain

because he like Bush is catering to the religious extremists who want to turn public money over to private schools.

The DLC has been pushing charter schools forever...it is one of their main goals. Business and public working together.

As a retired teacher I despise the concept. I have seen too many of the schools, too many of the kids rejected and sent back to public schools in shame.

However, if I vote for McCain/Palin I deserve what I get.

[jakem]

11. What is wrong with charter schools?

My son is in a Chinese language elementary charter school.

Our rural public schools are NOT good.

And before you start bitching, my wife teaches public school.
But that is no reason to penalize our son.

[Frumious B]

12. Specifically she says...

Charter schools take money away from the public school system and that they pay teachers half what they would make in the public systems. I know Obama is on record in saying that he wants to increase teacher pay, but I am not well enough informed to say how this would work in conjunction with charter schools.

[madfloridian]

13. Whoa there. Would your schools be better if money were not being diverted ....

to charter schools? Charter schools are partnered with businesses. The public school money goes to them....while businesses contribute also.

We had great public schools here in our area years ago pre-Bush...until the propaganda started that schools were failing and we needed to start up new ones.

They took more money away from them. They started up all kinds of schools, gave money to private schools and then blamed the public schools.

Come on. They are starving public schools.

[jakem]

14. thats a little simplistic.

we pulled him from the local public school because it sucks, and had him in a private school we could not afford, before the charter school opened 45 minutes away in another district.


i could go into all the reasons why our local rural schools are failing, but charter schools are not it.

[Catshrink]

16. Some charter schools are excellent -- but far more are horrible.

We've had many close here for poor academic performance and financial impropriety. Some charter school companies may genuinely care about education but for many it's another way for business to skim money from the public.

They don't pay their teachers well and teachers have no protections from abitrary firings. They also don't pay into the state retirement plan. Because they are small, they don't have access to resources.

As I said, some are excellent, but those are the exception.

[madfloridian]

18. Schools usually fail when funds are diverted.

The public school system was what made America great. Then the corporate world decided they wanted a piece of the pie. Now there are vouchers, charter schools, magnet schools, school of choice....and the ones who fail are sent back to the public school in shame.

They are paid for with our public money, but they are not "burdened" by regulations such as public schools have. Sounds good, huh?

In the last few years in Florida I have seen this philosophy nearly destroy our schools...to give corporations a piece of the pies. And yes, the "sponsor" of the schools is generally a business.

Yes, I taught over 30 years. I do think simplistically....anything that takes money from public schools is wrong. Period.

If that same money remained in the school system...people could be hired to perform what the charter schools do.

[jakem]

23. in MA the charters are pretty well regulated it seems.

the ones i know in western ma where i live have better reputations that the public schools.

the money left the school system long before the charter schools came in.


i believe public schools need better funding, but my wife trying to live off the pathetic salary (lowest in the state- teachers start at $18K!!!) is enough. our kid is not going to suffer for bad policy decisions if i can help it.

as for people being hired to perform what charter schools do- he is in a full immersion chinese language school. i dont think that would be happening in public school.


i know public schools are hurting and need all they can get, but i disagree that charters are the enemy. I would probably do a homeschool cooperative if the charter school did not exist.

[Dinger]

26. Thank You

From one teacher to another.

[glowing]

15. Ok, so more funding of public shcools is an issue... So, that's something

everyone knows.. they need more money.

I think there is something fundametally wrong with our schools and our society in general. When you have a child who is young, they dream, they are ideal.. some are better at music, art.. other's science and math..and other's in language and writing. This well rounded aspect of a society is so monumentally important. So, why is it that we are not finding these talents and pushing the talents to exceed all expectation... and also allow them to have something on the other side? I was in h.s... there was nothing to take by junior year except math and lit.. wanting to do science, I took any science that I could as extra.. By senior year, I had to do independent studies on a scientific study to come up with enough "class" time. It was a monumental waste of my time and the schools time. Senior year is a joke. By junior year we ought to have a more guided path in actually doing something. Now, we are a free country, so its not something a student would have to "stick" to like we are living in China, but it would do great wonders on finishing school and inspiring students to do more.... Our education system needs a complete overhaul.. Its NOT good enough to compete on a global scale, and not enough people have money to attend college or tech schools for career training.

[madfloridian]

20. Because they are diverting money from the public education sector.

And when they divert the money, the resource is no longer there. In my mind charter schools, promoted so long by the DLC, are the first step toward simply privatizing the schools.

I disagree with Obama on this totally, but he will still make a far better president than McCain.

[LWolf]

25. What's right and what's wrong:

Some charter schools do a good job. That's what's right.

Of course, not all charter schools are great. Charter schools allow religious organizations and corporations to use public money to run pseudo-private schools. Charter schools are a right-wing tool to promote privatization. It's a step between public schools and vouchers for private schools. That ought to give you pause, if nothing else.

Some other things wrong with charter schools:

1. Inequity. Public ed, by definition, is supposed to offer equal opportunity for a high quality education. There are many factors that affect whether that opportunity is truly equal, or present, at all public schools. The fact is, charter schools don't have to follow all the rules and regulations that the rest of us do. That's unequal. It allows them flexibility that we don't have, and we serve quite a few more students than they do. It also allows the school to be more selective about who attends than a public school can. That can lead to the impression that they are doing a better job, of course. If they have more flexibility, don't have to comply with all the rules and regs, and don't have to serve as broad a student population, or as many students with cognitive or social/emotional disabilities, for example, they will certainly appear to be "better."

If you really support public education, you want to give your local public schools every support possible to make sure that they can be "great," too. That includes the same privileges charter schools enjoy. Except that would be illegal, because all schools can't turn students away if they are crowded or if the student is "difficult." Full support includes funding, which some on this thread have already addressed.

Too many parents are willing to turn a blind eye to inequities, as long as it's not their children paying the price. As long as it's their child benefiting. Public education, though, is for everyone. It's not supposed to be an "I got mine, and the rest are out of luck" scenario.

[Politicub]

17. If you wife honestly thinks teachers will be better off under a republican admin, then

by all means, she should knock herself out by voting for McCain. It sounds to me like she was looking for a reason not to vote for Obama in the first place.

[Frumious B]

19. McCain/Palin is a complete nonstarter for her.

She is considering not voting for President at all.

[thoughtcrime1984]

21. You may want to point out all the positives of an Obama administration

It's not all about the charter school issue, there are HUNDREDS of other considerations to make when voting for a President. He is for funding the Public school system a heck of a lot better than McPhalin, and that might be of some interest to her.

[Dinger]

22. As A Public School Teacher, My Reaction:

I thought, as far as merit pay, well, if the child came home to an empty house, had no supper, or if the child was sick and got no health care, or if the child was beaten the night before, or if the child was sexually assaulted recently, the teacher has to take some responsibility for that, and if the child performs poorly on a mandated test, or if the child acts out and harms another child or teacher, the teacher must not know what they're doing. I am all for accountability, but that goes for public and private schools, and in many states, private schools are not held to the same standard as public schools are. Yet, private schools (& some charter schools) expect funding that public schools sorely need, yet they are not required to take standardized tests or report the results IF they take them. That is a fact, and I would be curious to see what Obama has to say about it.

[LWolf]

24. Yes. Her concerns are warranted.

My association, the NEA, did not endorse him until there was no other choice, not considering McCain a choice.

He spoke about charter schools and merit pay in an early speech to the NEA, before the first primaries and caucuses. That part of the speech was not well received. He mentioned them again in the transmitted acceptance speech when they endorsed him, which he did not give in person.

He spoke again on the infamous Fox interview; when asked what republicans get right, public ed was one of his answers.

To be clear, he doesn't speak about charter schools and merit pay the same way the right wing does. He has not addressed, one way or another, the inequities inherent in allowing charter schools to self-select students and opt out of some rules and regulations.

He is vague about "merit pay." It doesn't sound like the kind of merit pay the right wing pushes. It sounds more like paying more for more training, which we already have in our salary schedules. They're called "columns." ;)

I've never heard him clarify exactly what he means. The flirting, in speeches, with charter schools and merit pay doesn't sit well with many educators. We'd like it if he were more specific. He's not, which leaves some of us cynical and suspicious. This is just one reason why Obama was always at the bottom of my list of preferred nominees.

It would be a good thing if he'd get more specific. It'd be better if he'd drop charter schools and merit pay as appropriate campaign topics or public ed policies.

Edited to add: She won't find anything good for public ed for McCain, either. Public ed loses in this election, unless Obama can be brought around.