As a Black Person, I resent those discussing this "Sambo/Bitch" rumor at this forum. I'm pissed!

[FrenchieCat]

Not at Palin, but those who are discussing this tripe without proof that she said it.

Race should not be brought back into this contest, because if it is, we lose.

Although I don't speak for Barack Obama, as an early supporter of his, and as a person of similar background as Obama, I will tell you that those participating in the discussion of this shit must not have a clue as to what you are setting up; calling a candidate a racist without real proof.

Barack Obama is not running as the Black Candidate, he is simply running while Black.
Please refrain from the rumor mongering.

I'm tired of the dumb shit. You are putting my life and the life of my children into your own hands, and I resent it.

PLEASE, STOP IT.

[corkhead]

1. agreed.

unprovable. so therefore pointless.

[Name removed]

243. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

266. Search is instructive. eom

[d_b]

2. more unsubstantiated garbage

I'll admit that I don't doubt she said it, but there's no way to prove it. The last thing we need to hear about is how the crazy obama internet supporters are attacking princess palin.

[SmokingJacket]

3. Yep. Caught on tape would be one thing.

But as rumor, we need to leave it alone.

[Raineyb]

135. Then you'll be waiting a really long time

Unlike former Senator Allen, most racists aren't stupid enough to spew their bullshit in front of a camera being operated by someone who opposes them.

Keep waiting for that tape. Maybe then you'll NEVER have to consider the possibility.

Regards

[bonnieS]

164. anyone notice the word "bitch"?

That's the one I find interesting. In that Palin is running as a woman for the woman's vote. In that she is being sequestered because she is too tender to talk to the press. THAT is the damning word here, if true. I see no reason not to believe it. She is nothing if not "acerbic."

[SmokingJacket]

247. You just can't accuse without proof, is the problem.

Because it could go both ways. They could just make shit up about our side.

[bjobotts]

246. You are too sensitive. The entire republican party should offend you.

They tried to make Jesse Helms a hero at his funeral.
From driftglass.com:
"...words “Jesse Helms was a despicable, racist motherfucker who stayed in power for as long as he did because his supporters and admirers were and are despicable, racist motherfuckers, one and all.”

Instead, the inhabitants of Stephanopoulos' world believe that on the occasion of the death of this evil man we should toddle down to the Piggly Wiggly and buy some brand of Kiwi shoe polish powerful enough, to buff this turd of a human being to a shine high enough, so that he can be buried under a gooey, compromise word like "Controversial" or “Provocative”..."

You are right that this should never have been posted but make no mistake about these right wing republicans...they are racists.

They stoop to every level to be offensive even referring to Obama as "uppity" ( a word that has mainly one connotation) on the national stage.
Taking note of the "story" attributed to Palin is not the same as going after her for saying it. That's being overly sensitive. The source was listed right up front.
These people deserve no respect...they don't care about you or me or this country but only what they can make the country do to prosper them.

[otohara]

4. I Always Thought You Were French

and a cat!

Yes, we should not go nuts with this until it's confirmed.

[FrenchieCat]

11. I am French.....and my mother is a French White woman,

But my father was Black.

And yes, my green eyes and the fact that CAT are the first three letters of my name is how I got my moniker. :)

[renie408]

21. That's another thing I always wonder about. Why aren't you white? If you are half of the two races,

you could be either, right?

[FrenchieCat]

24. In my day, there was no such thing as being "biracial".

This is a new label formulated fairly recently.

[defendandprotect]

183. No . . . that always existed as evidenced by the term "mulatto" . . .except that

finally that concept became dangerous for "white" people --

i.e., were you white enough?

In fact "whites" aren't white - if you check your skin against a sheet of white paper ---

they are simply lighter in color than other people of color.

[Heather MC]

68. there was a court case that settled the issue

i can't recall the details exactly, who what why when, but here's the tale
a woman white woman was convicted of a crime
a witness against her was a black man.
there was a a law back then that black people could not be witnesses against whites in a court of law.
She argued her conviction siting the above law as to why her conviction should be over turn
However, it was either discovered or always known that her grandfather was black. Though she looked white

they ruled that if you have one drop of black blood you are black

thus the birth of the one drop rule
I am sure if you google "one drop rule" you will find more detail of what I just so badly paraphrased.

[renie408]

107. Jesus H. Christ. This country can be truely horrific. n/t

[Heather MC]

117. The sad thing is how many still never will learn

This country could be sooo much further along and greater than it is
if we would end the divides
seriously it's so confusing, the way as progressive as we are we constantly focus on ways to divide
each other.
One day I believe we will get it.

[kwenu]

141. Um. NO!!!! The one-drop rule was legislated into existence by states during the Jim Crow era.

However, a U.S Supreme court case (Loving v. Virginia) did strike the one drop rule down as unconstitutional as it applied to interracial marriage. Maybe that's what you're thinking of because the case you describe likely doesn't exist.

[Jim Lane]

239. The Loving v. Virginia decision didn't turn on the one-drop rule

The Virginia statute at issue prohibited interracial marriages, so of course it had to define the racial categories. You're correct that it defined them using the one-drop rule. It precluded "any white person in this State to marry any save a white person, or a person with no other admixture of blood than white and American Indian".

Nevertheless, that wasn't the basis of the decision. However Virginia had defined racial categories, the law would have been struck down. The Supreme Court stated:

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law.

Incidentally, if that reasoning reminds you of anything, you aren't alone. Last year, Mildred Loving issued a statement on the occasion of the fortieth anniversary of the decision that let her marry the man she loved:

I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That's what Loving, and loving, are all about.

When I checked to get the details for this post, I found that she died just a few months ago. R.I.P., Mildred.

[kwenu]

240. Thanks but my point was only that it struck down the one drop rule as unconstitutional.

I didn't intend to imply that it was the seminal issue in the case but as you point out Virginia had to define who wasn't white and the "one drop rule" is what was used by Virginia to do that. In essence my point was that there is no court case that I'm aware of that created the "one drop rule."

[Jim Lane]

276. I agree with you about the statutes

Like you, I'm not aware of any court case creating the one-drop rule. In fact, according to the excerpt from Loving that I read, the rule was in the Virginia statute, which said that a white person could marry only someone "with no other admixture of blood than white and American Indian". I'd interpret that as meaning that, with a single black ancestor, no matter how remote, you'd be considered black, and thus be ineligible to marry a "purebred" white.

Some racists might say, "We're against miscegenation but someone who's at least seven-eighths white should be considered white. It would be unreasonable to apply the one-drop rule." Conceivably, a court could uphold an anti-miscegenation law but strike down the method of determining racial categories. I thought you were suggesting that something like that was a component of the Loving decision, but I guess we're on the same page on that score.

Further analysis of the details of Loving would constitute hijacking FrenchieCat's thread, and she's mad enough as it is. :)

[GumboYaYa]

158. Kharma can be a b*tch......b/c now us white folks don't get to claim half of Obama.

and he may just be the greatest President this country has ever had.

[sakura]

101. Why does she have to justify it to you?

Biracial may be a more descriptive and accurate term, but the reality in this country for many years was that being part African American was the same as being all African American.

[renie408]

106. Because I DEMAND JUSTIFICATION!! Or maybe I didn't do any such thing. Maybe I just asked

what seems like a reasonable question. I am simply and without malice curious about why biracial people tend to identify as black. I was wondering more if it is something that is 'chosen' for them when they are growing up or whether it is a personal choice.

So hey, FUCK OFF.

[sakura]

122. Nice language.

You just told me all I need to know about you.

[renie408]

212. Goes both ways, sweetie. I know what I need to know about you, also.

You are quick to judge and think everybody else is also. You like being offended and will create reasons to be so. You are a hall monitor who feels smug when they think they have found flaws in others.

I asked a simple question. You worked up your outrage and read more into than was needed and felt it necessary to slap me on the wrist. When I slapped back, you attacked the only thing you could...a word. Good job!

[sakura]

225. Seems like you know a lot about faux outrage.

You asked a simple, ignorant question. Worth calling you on.

[renie408]

234. No, I think your outrage is genuine. I don't understand it, but it is fairly obvious that you

are outraged. WHY...that is the question. WHY are you so outraged? Several other people have said that they saw no problem with my question. Yet you are insistent on calling me ignorant, questioning my reading comprehension and generally being nasty. What you may not realize is that all of that says, again, more about you than it does about me. Are you completely intolerant of being disagreed with?

The question was asked to generate a discussion. I imagine that the OP identifies as 'black' due to a level of melatonin which produces a skin tone most frequently associated with African Americans. Duh. I get that part. I was more interested in what generates the INTERNAL identification. I am not asking her to justify anything. I can't find out on Wikipedia or Google why Frenchiecat has developed a personal identity which includes the designation of 'black'. Because I have had this discussion with several of my mixed race friends and gotten mixed answers, I was curious to see what someone I don't actually know had to say about it. No justification. Just a question. And apparently, YOU are the only person who found it egregiously ignorant.

I am sorry that you found my question ignorant. Well, actually, I could care less. It is interesting, though.

[sakura]

257. I'm not outraged, though it's clear from your response to me that I touched a nerve.

I asked a simple question-- why do you feel the need to ask someone to justify their identification as black or white. Read your question again. You are asking for a justification, plain and simple. You may classify that as just looking for information or discussion, but the question still stands. Go back and read the original post, then look at your response and see how it's possible that your statement might be interpreted that way. If it wasn't meant that way, that's fine with me. But your words, as written, suggest otherwise.

As for your other comment, that I called you ignorant, I did no such thing. Go back to my posts and find where I called you ignorant. You won't be able to find those words. I am sure you have some informed statements to make (possibly most of them) just as you have clearly (in my opinion) made an ignorant statement here. However my commenting on either of these categories says NOTHING about whether YOU are ignorant. Plenty of intelligent or informed people say ignorant things from time to time. The fact that you are so willing to take a comment about something you wrote and turn it into some global comment on what I think of you points to a frightening level of insecurity on your part. It seems that you are the one who have a problem with being disagreed with, not I.

And as for the nastiness, telling someone to "Fuck off" is about as nasty as it gets. Note that you were the first one to delve into the nastiness. Again, read what you've written. Getting upset now about some perceived nastiness on my part is ridiculous when you were the one who started that ball rolling. I haven't insulted you-- I haven't attacked you personally or used gutter language to tell you where to go. That you see it this way, as I wrote earlier, says so much about you-- none of it good.

[renie408]

260. Ok...

1) I did not ask anybody to justify anything. I HAVE reread the extremely short and simple question that I asked. Only if you are looking for something negative, which you obviously are, could you read into it that it is 'demanding' justification.

2) If I repeatedly said that your comments were bitchy, it would not be much of an extrapolation to assume that I think you are a bitch. You have repeatedly castigated my very brief question as 'ignorant' and have suggested over and over again that I 'educate' myself. Spin away, but the obvious implication is that I am ignorant and uneducated. Now I have a 'frightening' level of insecurity. I guess it's a good thing that I only have the average level of insecurity, otherwise I might not recognize your comments for the "I have no real argument, so I have to use personal attacks" ploy that they are. (I recognize that from watching the GOP for the past ten years. Are you sure you are in the right party??) As for touching a nerve, again, Frenchie didn't react with rancor, WHY ARE YOU SO BENT OUT OF SHAPE?

3) As for having a problem being disagreed with...I am RESPONDING to you. You keep writing to me. So, I keep writing back. See how that works?? That's how message boards function.

4) About being first to get nasty...Ok, I might have to give you that one. I personally think you got shitty (oops, more gutter language! I guess that says a lot about my mental capacity. Mine and 90% of the other members of the DU!!) first. But I did tell you to fuck off, which I meant but could have stated in a way somebody's grandmother would be less offended by. Sorry, I didn't realize you were somebody's grandmother.

I know the conclusions I have drawn about you based on your reactions and can see that you have come to some conclusions of your own. I guess this means we are not destined to be new best friends. I think I can survive if if you can.

[sakura]

264. Sigh...

I don't think there's a need to respond to your first four points, as they don't make sense. But as for your last two sentences, I completely agree. :-)

[1Hippiechick]

262. Justification was the wrong word to use - sounded like an attack. n/t.

[renie408]

265. Forget it. They are RIGHT. Period. Full stop. The end. You know, all the really

secure people are like that.

[democracy1st]

182. study history and you'll find the answers

[Iris]

190. wow. What a way to break down barriers.

[kristopher]

252. "Racial" identity is a purely social construct.

In terms of anthropology there are no distinct races that can be delineated on the basis of purely physical characteristics.

In sociology, there are two bases for determining racial identity: how one identifies ones self, and how various social groups identify that person.

While the bulk of people of European descent in the US probably do identify people of mixed "black and anything else" as "black", there are definitely subcultures within the country (for example immigrants from various Caribbean nations) that make much more subtle distinctions.

[renie408]

258. This is sort of where I was heading. Your personal identification vs. how society

at large identifies you. I remember reading an article by a woman who stated that she was a light-skinned black woman and was continuously 'mistaken' for white. It really pissed her off. Anyway, I remember thinking that if you are constantly 'mistaken' for white, you are probably white. Culturally, you might 'feel' African American, but essentially, you're white.

We have a friend who is half Hawaiian and half light skinned Jamaican who was raised in the mid-west. He says the worst part of any application is the part where they ask about ethnicity. He never knows what to say. He was kidding around the other night and said that no matter who he is talking to, he just fits right in. Hispanics, Middle easterners, Indians, blacks...they all think he is 'one of them'. But that within himself, he just feels 'American'. His parents assimilated totally into the middle American life. He does not have any kind of strong ethnic identity.

This just happens to be a subject which my group of friends were talking about recently, which is why I asked Frenchiecat about her personal identification.

[Maraya1969]

123. It wasn't demanding justification it was just a question for crying out loud.

Like asking a Jewish person what Kosher means. It is curiosity about different ethnicities and religions. I personally find other cultures fascinating.

[demwing]

196. jeez, touchy subject for you?

Can't a person ask a question without the thought police questioning motives?

[sakura]

203. Can't you ask a question without labelling people?

Nothing I said implied I was telling the poster she wasn't allowed to think in a particular way. However, asking a question with an answer obvious to anyone who has studied even a tiny amount of US history can easily be seen as seeking a justification.

How about people educating themselves before asking otherwise ignorant questions?

[renie408]

215. Hey, isn't 'ignorant' a label? Why can't you argue with someone without labeling them??

And the question itself labeled no one. It was a question about the labels chosen for or by people. Do you always accuse people who ask questions of which you don't approve of being ignorant??

[sakura]

224. Please learn to read.

I didn't label YOU as anything. I labelled your question as ignorant. There's a difference there, but it's obvious you don't see it.

[renie408]

236. Wow. You really know how to win friends and influence people. And make yourself look so

great while you do it.

Kudos.

[demwing]

238. Bullshit

You challenged renie408 , asking why Frenchiecat had to justify herself. Nothing in Otohara's post asked FC to justify herself.

You encourage renie408 to seek out answers, but not go to the source and ask FC. To you, there is something "ignorant" in doing so, as if the question itself is offensive.

The implication here is that it alright to go to Google to learn whether Frenchiecat perceives herself as white or black, but by asking Frenchie, renie408 has acted somehow improperly in thought and/or action.

Therefore, my comment regarding the thought police.

Just because something seems obvious to you, or you believe it to be universally obvious, does not mean you are correct. Asking an innocent question is not the same as making an accusation, or seeking justification, even if you're convinced that it is. Not everyone thinks and acts as do you.

As for me, I find it vastly superior to ask as authority, rather than to make up wildly inaccurate shit, and pretend it is fact.

EDITED - because my original post incorrectly cited Otohara instead of renie408.

[sakura]

259. Right back at you.

I wasn't responding to Otohara's post. My response was to renie408. For the record, she did not ask "Why do you identify as black?" She asked "Why are you black?" There is a difference between those two questions. The fact that several posters responded to the question with HISTORICAL information suggests that my interpretation was not as off track as you are suggesting. Historically, there's lots of information to explain why in the past, and today a person is labelled "black" and not "white." My comment was in response to renie408 asking the question without doing her homework first.

That has nothing to do with "thought police." It has to do with asking informed questions, and writing clearly enough so that others understand what you mean. It takes time to do both of those things. The written equivalent of shooting one's mouth off is a lot easier. Sad that it happens so much.

I agree that asking the authority is the way to go in situations where an authority exists. And if renie408 had asked the question you seem to think she did, that would have been the way to go.

As for the "wildly inaccurate shit and pretending it is fact"-- where are you getting that from? What has this got to do with this conversation? Do you think using the words "bullshit" and "shit" strengthens your response? While I admit I use them in real life, myself, I try to only use them when the situation warrants. Does this situation warrant it? Should I return in kind? So much for civil discourse here, huh?

ed for grammar

[renie408]

263. You do get that YOU are the only one that misread my question, right?

Frenchie didn't and none of the other people who answered did. None of the others immediately assumed that I was demanding anything or implying anything negative. YOU misunderstood me, YOU alone...and that's MY fault?

Jesus, you just can't stop justifying your snotty comment, can you? You obviously cannot be wrong, even slightly. I can't remember...who was the insecure one again??

As for that 'civil discourse' comment, oh PLEASE. It's right up there with the 'gutter language' thing. If you have been around the DU for 550 posts, you certainly cannot be too shocked by the occasional 'bull shit' or 'fuck off'. Methinks you doth protest too much.

Look, twist what I said all you want. I know what I meant and apparently most of the people who read the question knew what I meant. YOU didn't....and somehow, that's MY fault??

[sakura]

267. Can't let go, can you?

[renie408]

Well, that goes both ways when you think about it. Why can't YOU let it go? After all

I am just ignorant, uneducated and insecure. From the judgments you have thrown around at me and at the other people here, one would have to assume that you are the superior one. Why can't YOU stop?

[sakura]

269. I know what it is.

Despite what you said before, you secretly want to be my friend, don't you?

;)

I'm done. I'm pretty sure you'll reply to this, so feel free to have the last word. Tell me to fuck off, or whatever. Note that I haven't said anything of the kind to you.

Bye, now.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mopinko]

121. why aren't you what your mother was?

a sensible rule, imho.

[rebel with a cause]

145. According to a NYC official some thirty years ago

The child officially carries the ethnic identity of the father. Thus my children were listed as Hispanic. On the other hand, I imagine if I had been Latina and my husband had been white, they would have still found a way to make them Latina both officially and in society. And no matter what the official said, if one of the parents had been Black I am sure the baby would have been officially Black. As far as ethnicity, my children are the United Nation. Their heritage is very mixed and I call them multi-ethnical and not bi.

As for most part, multi ethnical children are identified by their appearances by society if their parents are not seen. If seen, they are identified by the parent with the darkest complexion. That is the society that we live in. By their looks my daughter is usually identified as Asian or Latina, my son is usually identified as Middle Eastern, bi-racial, or Latino. With their father, they are identified as Latino, with me they were always identified as adopted (which they are not).;)

Why is my son identified as bi-racial while my daughter is not. Her hair is semi straight and his is not. :9

[renie408]

216. Before I get into that, is that a serious response? n/t

[mopinko]

270. relatively serious.

matri-lineal inheritance of anything makes more sense, since, elaborate deceptions aside, it is the reliable line. a father could be anyone. the whole idea of things following the male line, imho, is a sop to the male very primal fear of being the cuckold.

[Vickers]

168. I'm guessing half of DU just fell in love with you.

:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

[RaleighNCDUer]

172. You mean the half that was not already in love with her? nt

[TahitiNut]

181. GMTA

:loveya:

[avaistheone1]

189. Well then do you eat freedom fries?

Just being silly here.

:silly:

[Greyskye]

5. Agreed

Focus on the substance, not the smear.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Well, it's the discussion of an article, so it's fair to talk about, IMO--

but I agree with you that any mention of race hurts Obama, which is why I would not buy into this unless there's a REAL story here, and not just one anonymous person's word, which would mean some well-recognized media outlet would have to confirm it.

[FrenchieCat]

15. I think that we should squash the discussion of an article based on

unsubstantiated sources.

It will hurt the Obama campaign, period.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I think more than one thread on this is indeed excessive, since

it's from a source that I've never heard of and can't be verified. But it's apparently too tempting for some to stay away from. We should bring back the "Let it sink" on this.

[progressivebydesign]

39. If you read the article, you'll find someone ON RECORD saying she's racist. n/t

[vaberella]

96. Come on man, be serious. There was the same hearsay trash on the 'whitey' tape. We called BS.

Which it was. One person doesn't make it real, especially if one person has a problem with said bloody governor. Or this one person who wrote the article didn't have their own issues with Palin. You know as everyone else we need proof before we spout out shit.

[goldcanyonaz]

111. A freaking waitress? Oy VEY!

[Raineyb]

137. So waitress are automatically without credibility?

I hope you never need one to back you up on anything.

Regards

[Maine-ah]

159. this waitress says

screw you, buddie. I'm honest, and I bust my freakin' ass for a living.

[RaleighNCDUer]

174. Actually, a waitress is a credible source - if unverifiable.

Wait staff are invisible to certain types - I spent years as a server from truck stops to 4-star restaurants, and you wouldn't believe what you overhear just because they don't see you standing at their elbow.

That said, it does remain in the realm of rumor, and cannot be verified. Even if the person making the claim comes forward, it's still "she said, she said".

[tomg]

191. The shit I heard working in a

4-Star back in the day. Mostly attitudinal, and most of the people saying it with no concept that there was an actual person serving them. Incidentally, heard it from people of all political persuasions.

Frankly, I smell a Rovian trap in all of this ( left-wing blah blah blah as a way of sidetracking the issues - one more examination, not of the issues but the campaign as event). All unverifiable, all rumor.

[progressivebydesign]

92. Did you read the article? One person gives their FULL name and calls her a racist.

That's not unsubstantiated... So I guess every single thing about Mean & Meaner now has to go through full vetting and provide full evidence???

Gosh.. when Bush told that guy "Who cares what YOU think?" everyone here at DU believed it. But for some reason, some people here seem to be very touchy about criticizing Palin. Interesting.

The fellow at the end of the article goes on record with his comments that she is a racist and bigot. Is the guys full name and State not enough for you?

[goldcanyonaz]

112. It's not an article, it's a fucking blog.

[demwing]

199. This comment is very interesting

why -- in your opinion, regarding reliability -- is an artical different than "a fucking blog," or should I ask, why is a reporter different than a fucking blogger?

[druidity33]

33. a waitress named Lucille

in a restaurant that Gov Palin was dining in the day that Hilary conceded. Palin was there with several R cohorts who apparently laughed it up at her comment.

It shouldn't be that hard to confirm... find out which restaurant (how many waitresses named Lucille are there in Alaska anyway?) and who Palin was with. Ask them to confirm or deny.


I think it's important if she actually said it. But i agree it's too early to denounce her for it... this needs to have been proven true before being aired.

:shrug:

[Stern21]

75. A waitress named "Lucille." Sounds like central casting now that I think about it.

I just saw the article in Late Breaking News and was incensed by it and gave my two cents worth. After FrenchieCat's OP, I now have to add salt to the fact/rumor.

If there is anything behind it, I'm sure that a more prominent publication will vet the story and report it as the implications would be huge.

[slackmaster]

200. And a journalist named Charley, who took Lucille at her word

Sound familiar?

[librechik]

245. The story says she is called Lucille because she doesn't want to use her real name

so yes, it's a fakey name by design.

[last1standing]

7. Actually, you're wrong....and right.

If it's never proved that phailin" used the term then it only emphasizes the fact that Obama is "the Other" which in turn makes him seem more risky. However, if it CAN be proved, then the outcry will be so great - from all sides - that she will be forced to step down leaving mcsame's campaign in even more disarray.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Making a lot of noise on the internet in reference to this Rumor,

is not going to help.

Either the originator of the article has proof or they don't. Everything else is bullshit that will backfire by turning the conversation back to race, somewhere the Obama campaign doesn't want to go, and I don't blame them.

[onefreespiritedchick]

273. I agree! n/t

[Happyhippychick]

8. I agree!

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I can't put myself in your shoes or anyone else's...

and, perhaps quite obviously, I'm not trying to think as a political operative.

I'm being a human being and reacting to what I encounter EVERY DAY where I am. Every day there are people I've known my entire life who have been PROUD of being racists, yet now they're pussyfooting around it.

I want to expose the TRUTH.

I'm tired of all the political light-stepping. If the TRUTH is indeed exposed, about people like Palin, Obama will win.

I'm sorry, I don't understand why what most people know is the truth can't be discussed and exposed for what it is.



:shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

25. Well than you need to start thinking like a political operative....

one who is in the Obama camp.

[OneGrassRoot]

31. Are you one? How did you become one?

I still say the truth is the best route.

I'm not trying to challenge you, but you've always been soooooo adamant that you know what is right and wrong throughout the primaries and now the general.

How do you know? It's a serious, respectful question, because I surely don't know what works and what doesn't, especially with vile people like the Roves of the world.

I understand what the Obama team is staying away from it, but why should we?

[onenote]

66. THANK YOU!!!

Someone finally says what ought to be obvious. Obama's team is professional and their track record (coming from essentially nowhere to best a far better known frontrunner for the nomination) suggests that they are quite good at what they do. Some DUers either don't get the fact that there are actual professionals who do this stuff or they somehow think that they know more than these professionals.

DU is very good at being loud. But what we need to be is smart, not just loud.

[EFerrari]

98. Is there a memo from the Obama camp instructing us

not to respond to racist bullshit from Republicans?

Do you have a link, Frenchie?

[Runcible Spoon]

162. now, now Comrade Sfexpat. You know it is against the Party mandates to directly question...

a Superior Operator. Please report to Headqaurters for reprogramming

:rofl: :hug:

[Celebration]

10. It had to be said

I actually doubt that she said it anyway, and we certainly have no proof.

[Ashy Larry]

12. I agree, we shouldn't go after stuff like this without hard evidence.

All Palin has to do is deny she said it and then she and every other republican will accuse Barack of "playing the race card."

[Raineyb]

140. They've already done it. They don't need an actual accusation. n/t

Regards

[Jersey Devil]

13. Absolutely right FrenchieCat

Allegations that Democrats are making unfounded accusations of racism is something the Republicans are probably salivating about and could be devastating to the Obama campaign.

[Bucky]

14. I heard she only said that "Sambo/bitch" thing to motivate Willow thru her labor pains

The poor child was distressed because stupid Dick Cheney had cut the funding for the Area 51 maternity ward.

[cliffordu]

16. Big K&R from me. Speculating on unsubstantiated garbage is just that.

We should be better.

[bjnumb9]

226. I too absolutely agree. Glad to see some people being reasonable

[TeamsterDem]

17. Totally agreed. n/t

[renie408]

18. I hear what you are saying and have stayed away from that thread. But I wanted to ask

why it is considered a rumor. Is it because it is just the one waitress who said she heard it? Not arguing with you or your point, just asking a question.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Did you bother even to read the whole article?

You better.....

[FrenchieCat]

29. If we want Obama to win, than we stay away from the race baiting

that comes with this article.

I'm telling you, The Obama campaign really has an agenda that doesn't include this shit.

[noel711]

20. This is blatantly racist, and repeated, it carries it forward...

Factual or not...Just don't repeat it.

Frenchy's right.

[Alameda]

26. I also agree....don't touch this!!! Unless it is 100% without a doubt

proven, stay from it. There is more than enough solid evidence of incompetent management and callous actions....like killing wolves and bears from airplanes...and wanting to offer a bounty for their paws!

[mzmolly]

27. I've not seen the rumor

but I agree with you Frenchie. K and R

[progressivebydesign]

38. It's NOT a rumor. It's an article -- people should read it before they K&R this. n/t

[Igel]

58. So what's the difference between a printed and spoken rumor?

It's an article, by somebody writing in Canadian ("Aboriginal" = Canadian for "Alaskan Native", in this context), who cites a woman by her first name, quoting her as overhearing something in a diner that apparently wasn't mostly empty, while going about her business.

Can she be found? Perhaps. Will she finish going on the record? Perhaps not. No "on the record", no record, no evidence, just rumor. I can write a rumor down and publish it, I can put it on the web, or I can repeat it to friends and enemies. Still a rumor.

"Bitch" I could see somebody saying; it's a high-frequency word, and having one woman refer to another that way strikes me as possibly the least offensive usage (yes, women can be sexist, but often such terms are simply gender-specific terms of abuse; I've caught myself saying "bastard" about a bone-headed driver until she passes me and I see it's a her, then spontaneously switch to "bitch" with no intensification of my ire; one is no more sexist in intent in that case than the other, they're simply gender-specific).

"Sambo" is a rather obscure reference these days--I think most white people know it either as a reference to a Dravidian boy or as a word considered racist. I've only ever heard it used, apart from the rare quote on this board and odd historical reference, in reference to the Kipling tale or as a citation form. Now, Alaskan English isn't exactly Maryland/Oregon English, there are undoubtedly differences (with lexical differences being the most widely studied to date), but I'm not going to base a conclusion on the mere possibility of differences in usage.

[rebel with a cause]

146. "Don't believe anything you hear

and only half of what you see." Words of wisdom that most children in the fifties were taught.

[mzmolly]

67. I saw it after I kicked and recommended this and knowing that the McCain

campaign is doing everything thing they can to distract from the issues, and make Palin a victim, I'm glad I kicked this thread. I would caution that the "article" may or may not be factual.

[freestyle]

28. Excellent post. Thanks for the sanity and realness.

I saw that thread when it posted and said uh oh. It is unsubstantiated, and puts out racist and sexist language about Obama and Clinton.

[CJCRANE]

30. Agreed - it seems Rovian, i.e. very juvenile

to get people talking at this low level.

Discussing this will please racists more than it will hurt the Repubs.

[shayes51]

32. Thank you.

[cwydro]

34. A few days ago someone was trying to float the idea

that the baby daddy was 26 years old. Complete bullshit.

Let's try to be better than the Freeps, people.

[FloridaJudy]

35. I agree

Without an unimpeachable source, it's just a rumor.

[progressivebydesign]

36. It was not a "rumor" it is an article from a newspaper!!

I asked my black family members, and they think it's wrong NOT to talk about this. Why sweep it under the rug?

I'm hard-pressed to figure out why you have your panties in a bunch over this. It is NOT a rumor. Perhaps you'd like to call the journalist that wrote the article and talked to the woman that made the statements. She was not repeating a story, she was speaking of her own experiences. BIG difference.

Did you actually read the entire article?? Did you see that someone went ON THE RECORD that she was a racist? If you'd read the article, there is a full name attached to that quote.

Journalistic stories like this are important because they create a composite of Palin's character. Try the hide feature if you are offended by it. I'm shocked that you'd be more offended by people reacting to a NEWS story, than the fact that several people in the article have confirmed she is a racist.

[Bjorn Against]

45. You know the story may very well be true, but there is a problem...

We don't have any hard concrete evidence to prove it is true. We can't prove that the people interviewed for the article are telling the truth, they very well may be but without hard evidence to back it up it is just going to turn into a he said she said argument that we are likely to lose. I actually found a blog which is supposedly written by someone very close to Palin which contains some blatantly racist and homophobic hate speech. Why won't I say specifically who wrote this blog or what it says? Because I have still not proven with 100% certainty that it is not a fake site, and I won't attack a person for this type of thing until I can prove conclusively that my attack is based on facts. We should treat this story the same way.

[Bjorn Against]

37. Until we have evidence I agree with you...

But if we do find proof she said these words then all hell needs to break loose. If she did say such a thing she needs to be held accountable for it, but until we know she said it we should ignore the rumors.

[renie408]

44. What proof? You mean like someone who overheard the comments and repeated them to a reporter?

Cause that is what the article says happened. I would like to know why this is a rumor and not a story. What is the difference?

[Bjorn Against]

54. The difference is that we can not prove that a second hand source is giving accurate information...

It is very possible that this story is true, but unless we have a recording of her saying such a thing there is no way to prove anything. One person can say one thing, and Palin can deny it. It will turn into a he said/she said situation, and because we are on the side making the accusation the burden of proof is on us. We need more proof than what we have before it is safe to touch this issue.

[EFerrari]

99. We do not need any more "proof" of this story to interrogate it

than we need "proof" of any AP story.

It's either true or it isn't. And the pressure of people wanting to know which will clarify it.

[Bjorn Against]

115. I do think that if it is true we will have concrete evidence soon...

If she really makes racist comments on a regular basis then a tape is likely to show up sooner or later. If someone finds that tape I hope they spread it far and wide, but I think it is best that those who don't have evidence wait until that evidence comes before they attack on this. It is not like there is any shortage of Palin scandals to focus on for the time being, so let's focus on where we already have hard evidence.

[EFerrari]

150. We already have her husband affiliating with racists at AIP

and we already have her dominionist ties.

Oh -- not to mention, her crack about Obama's organizing which plays like code.

If it doesn't surface here, it will be on some other occasion. We know that much.

[renie408]

108. So, unless somebody got her saying something racist ON TAPE...its a rumor?? n/t

[Bjorn Against]

113. Yeah, that is what I would have to say...

Now don't get me wrong I think there is a very high probability that Palin did say this, but the Republicans can just deny it and then demand proof. If we can't produce more evidence then we are going to come out looking bad.

Here's the thing though, if Palin does make these sorts of comments regularly as it sounds like she may then something is bound to turn up on tape sooner or later. People are being recorded more often than they even realize, and someone who makes one racist comment has likely made many others. If this is true we will likely have concrete evidence of her making a similar comment soon, and I would just advise we be patient until we get that concrete evidence.

[Fovea]

201. Are you suggesting we remove the latest breaking forum?

Because it would be a lot smaller if no news not incontrovertibly documented was allowed.

Once the story is in the media of record IE something that might be sued for inaccuracy
it should be fair game.

By those standards, we should not have posted those pictures of the drowned african-american woman
after Katrina, because unless they did a fact check, she was probably just floating for fun.

Sarah Palin has blood in the water, and after 15 years of neocon fuckwaddery, we would be remiss if we
restrain ourselves from being the agents of Karma.

When you defend dharma, there is no karma.

This is our reply for the purple heart bandaid moment, and Krishna is telling us to break their leg and move on.

[Bjorn Against]

202. No you are really stretching...

Most of the stuff in the Late Breaking News forum is not material we are campaigning on, that is the difference. When we are going against a candidate with a LONG list of PROVEN scandals we need to be careful about biting on the unproven ones, because the Republicans will just deny it and if we can't prove our allegations then we come out looking bad. If Palin did say such a thing she likely has made similar comments on many occasions, if this is true a tape is bound to surface eventually and I think we should be patient and wait for that tape to surface before we go full throttle on this one. There are plenty of other scandals we can focus on until that tape surfaces.

[Fovea]

207. That is because we are fencers

and believe that we should let the opponent respond.

When they yelp about one inaccuracy, we should shout them down with the dozen things they cannot touch.
It is not our allegation, it is the account of a waitress.

We don't have to prove it. They have the allegation already made in a media venue.
They have to disprove it now.

[Bjorn Against]

213. No that is not the way it works, the burden of proof is on the accuser

As much as I don't like Republicans we need to be consistent in our principles, innocent until proven guilty applies to everyone. It is impossible for a person to prove that they never said something. How would you like it if someone claimed that Obama called Palin some nasty sexist term and then placed the burden of proof on Obama to prove he never said such a thing?

When we have a dozen things they can't touch we should be using those, and we should be careful not to have any inaccuracies they can yelp about. If we can't prove an accusation then we look bad by making it, and that damages our credibility.

[RaleighNCDUer]

179. Without a video, it didn't happen.

All Palin's camp would have to do is say "prove it". And it then allows them to bring race in, accusing the Obama camp of race baiting.

"Macacca" only worked against the guy because it was on tape, and he COULDN'T deny it.

Without a video, it didn't happen.

[redqueen]

40. K&R

[oasis]

41. k and r

[suston96]

42. Here is the link to the printed media.......

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%E2%80%9D/

If Sarah Palin can prove she did not say this then she has a great libel/slander lawsuit going for her.

Let her deny it with proof. There must have been witnesses.

And sorry, but there will be race and sex in this campaign because very noticeably a black man is running for President and a woman is running for Vice-President.

And the voters are human beings who have been and will continue to be affected by, uh - such concepts.

[kristopher]

43. I don't think it is up to DU.

It looks to me like this is getting ugly from the right. This story is only one of many coming out today; "Iowa man hangs black doll"; "Georgia Rep says Obama is "uppity" and stands by it"; and now this waitress relates a tale of that sort of attitude from Palin.

I don't like it and I think it is something we should avoid if we can; I just don't think we can. Trying to suppress discussion of what is happening in that realm of the battle is only sticking our heads in the sand and is the wrong response. The relevant discussion should be how to confront the reality of what is happening, not ignore it and hope it goes away.

I also don't agree that if the discussion turns to race, we lose. I simply don't agree that is a given.

[itsrobert]

46. I agree

I see this as a Karl Rove trick. I'm not going to discuss it unless there is absolute truth.

[graywarrior]

47. Yes!

[mucifer]

48. I agree Frenchie

[Egnever]

49. Love ya but

no

We don't lose if race is the issue. You may be afraid we will but we wont.

I know you are very worried at this point and have a lot of hope tied up in Obama winning. But you need to relax. Race is an issue this race and you cant avoid it no matter how hard you try to. Much better to face it head on than skulk and hide from it.

[FrenchieCat]

52. Well, you should do what you see fit.

But this ain't the Democratic Primaries....and what is reported to have been said is not on tape.

If it is reported that Obama supporters are calling this woman a racist without any real proof, it is Obama that will take the hit.

Obama will win the race based on issues and not his skin color.

But go ahead and do your thing.

[Egnever]

64. If its true it will out itself

and I am inclined to believe that that's just exactly how these folks are.

Of course obama will win the race based on issues.

Thats why you need to stop worrying about this one. Haven't you seen enough of him yet to feel secure in this?

He is the far superior candidate period. People see this despite what the polls are telling you.
Work your butt off don't get me wrong we have to, but you of all people should be over sweating this small stuff by now.

Either way :hi:

[beachmom]

50. I absolutely agree.

[Bread and Circus]

51. I don't agree. What if it's true but nobody said anything anywhere. What would be worse?

[FrenchieCat]

53. "what if" is the operative phrase here.

Think about it.

If you think that making a big rukus on the Internet is going to "prove" her statements, than go for it. I tend to believe that this is not something we want. Obama is attempting to transcend race, not bring focus to it. He has already been accused of playing the race card, something that will not help him, but will alienate voters, especially White Voters.

[Bread and Circus]

61. I'm not the one making a rukus here nor do I....

think people pay much attention to DU Presidential outside of this bubble.

I view DU as a discussion board to talk about interesting stuff, not a place for "Political Action!"

I think your OP would be very appropriate for the official barackobama.com site, but a little too strict for this lovable group of crazies.

[onenote]

71. people do increasingly pay attention to what is being said on sites like DU

and Frenchie Cat is right on this one. It will not help things if it gets reported that Democratic bloggers are raging on about how racist Palin is because of an unsubstantiated (and, at the moment, unsubstantiatable, claim that she made a highly offensive comment to friends while at a restaurant).

If it could be substantiated -- if two or more unconnected persons would come forward on the record and say what they heard and saw and their stories matched -- then there might be something to rage about. But getting all excited about this without any reason to think it can or will be substantiated is dangerous.

[nichomachus]

55. I'm not sure that the best way to stop discussion about it is to start a thread about it

[CK_John]

56. This election is about nothing but race and gender. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

62. Well it shouldn't be....and that isn't what we should encourage.

The Internet does make a difference.

[CK_John]

73. It shouldn't be but it is, and it is also obvious Obama made a mistake with his VP pick that let the

Repugs frame this as a black man, white woman election.

[goldcanyonaz]

80. Who do you think he should have picked?

[CK_John]

84. Hillary would be my personal preference but Selebius would have been fine. n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

86. He could not have picked either, Hillary would overshadow him and Sebelius would have pissed off

a HUGE number of Hillary voters.

[CK_John]

91. No, he let his ego get in the way of winning first and whining later. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

180. And what is your PUMA card number? nt

[Lorien]

144. Just because it shouldn't be doesn't mean it ISN'T

McCain SHOULD NOT BE remotely close to Obama in this race, but their numbers are close enough for all of us to feel concerned. It's insane, but reality these days IS insane!

[Bette Noir]

249. The war? The economy? Universal health care?

Those were the issues I voted on, and will vote on again. If it were only about race and gender, I would have had to support Hillary.

(Gobama)

[Lucinda]

57. Couldn't agree more!

Well said.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. As a white person who's known racists like Palin all my life...

too bad.

[EmilyAnne]

60. As a mexican-american, I've got your back, Frenchie Cat.

This needs to stop!

[FrenchieCat]

63. Yep.

Some don't realize that the internet do make a difference, and it reflects on the Obama Camp, even if it shouldn't.

[EFerrari]

65. If you discount this woman's dominionist beliefs, you are doing your kids no favor.

And race will continue to be part of this conversation long after you or I are gone.

I hope you manage your resentment.

[EmilyAnne]

72. What do her nutty dominionist beliefs have to do with the Sambo/ Bitch rumor?

Is racism or white supremacism a part of dominionism? I don't know much about the whole thing, except the obsession with fetuses, gays and Armeggedon.

[EFerrari]

74. Yes, it is. And remember, your great candidate has already said

this is a conversation he looks forward to having.

:)

[EmilyAnne]

76. My "great candidate" has said he looks forward to having a conversation about the racist,

dominionist beliefs of Sarah Palin?

[EFerrari]

94. Obama said he'd be happy to have a conversation about race.

How long have you been a supporter -- he said that months ago, hermanita, long before this pendeja was chosen.

[EmilyAnne]

102. But this isn't about race, sis, its about a completely unsubstantiated rumor in which

Sarah Palin uses racial and sexist epithets.

How long have I been a supporter of Barack Obama?
How long have you been able to read?

[EFerrari]

104. It's not completely unsourced at all. It's signed and it names

a witness and a venue.

And Caribou Barbie is associated with the White Supremacist Dominionists.

And if you have a problem with my literacy level, you'll have to take it up with the Cal Regents.

lol

[EmilyAnne]

109. Oh, that's right. A waitress named Lucille said it.

And this has to do with Palin's nutty religious beliefs, how?

Yes, let's nail Palin on her stupid, end-times, homophobic, sexist beliefs. That stuff is well documented.

The story about her saying that "Sambo beat that Bitch" in some restaurant is not well documented.

Does this really not make sense to you?

[EFerrari]

148. I'm beginning to think that it's your reading skills that are lacking,

EmilyAnne.

This piece is signed. That means there is an author who is putting his name on the line for this story. Is he lying? That's possible. But most people who write for the public don't invent things out of whole cloth that will end their careers.

And in the context of her life and her beliefs (that whole part of logical reasoning where you bring your experience to bear), this story is not in the least remarkable.

Does that really not make sense to you?

[DevonRex]

69. I need proof, too, before I jump on this. We're better than those bastid pukes.

[slackmaster]

70. It's inappropriate and tacky, and I would add risky

People who participate in these frenzies based on unfounded rumors are setting themselves up to get "spnaked" when no proof of the event materializes.

[Oak2004]

77. You will never get anything "substantiated" until you investigate that which is "unsubstantiated"

Furthermore, the article made it clear why people did not want to go on record: they are terrified of her. By treating these people's off-the-record comments as "unsubstantiated" you're saying that as long as the Republican Party can terrify people into anonymity, their voices should be ignored.

Obsessing on the racial comment while disregarding that it is part of a pattern of nastiness: yeah, I have problems with that, for the reasons you give to utterly dismiss what the waitress said. But there's a big difference between obsession and allowing these frightened Alaskans to have the significant voice they deserve.

[progressivebydesign]

90. What is now truth, was once conspiracy theory or rumor. Rumors don't mean untruth. n/t

[brindis_desala]

78. You're right on this Frenchie. Could easily be a little Rovian bait.

Besides it's irrelevant. LBJ called black folks niggers while he was penning the voting rights act.. Sticks and stones y'all.

[glitch]

79. Guilty, you are correct and I bit.

And it's classic too, put out a refutable egregious story, refute it and the irrefutable horrific stories get the pass.

Good call, FrenchieCat. Will now wait for validation, with names on the record.

[Mugweed]

81. So....

pointing out perceived or potential racism is "off the table" as far as you're concerned?

[FlyingSquirrel]

82. Furthermore

What good does it do even if true? Those who are racist will already be voting for McCain, those who are not racist will probably not make up their minds based on whether or not Palin is racist. It's a very unimportant side issue compared to much more important concerns about Palin:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3928946&mesg_id=3928946

This is the person who will literally be a heartbeat away from the presidency, and has shown a history of ruthless behavior that would put George W. to shame... if McCain is elected she'll be undercutting him very slyly from the beginning and she is a very scary individual.

[shaniqua6392]

83. I agree with you wholeheartedly!

This crap does not belong on DU or anywhere else for that matter.

[spanone]

85. it's a rumor.....i'm offended too

[babythunder]

87. Hey could some of you

do the rest of us a favor and list the topics you find to be "appropriate" to discuss about Palin? It seems every time someone posts an article exhibiting Palin's questionable character someone automatically comes out to say we shouldn't be discussing it.

[bunnies]

88. If an eye witness account is enough to convict a person of murder....

then its enough to substantiate a statement. What the fuck.

[LeftishBrit]

153. Not if they aren't prepared to identify themselves

There is already solid evidence that she's an extremist; she supported Pat Buchanan, and he still seems to think she's great. But if she denies this latest allegation, there'd be no way of proving it.

[Monk06]

89. This race is all about race and class differences. The Repugs call affirmative action race baiting,

Black politicians are called race pimps and
the Democrats are called the plantation party.

Of course this race is about race

[Blaze Diem]

93. I'm a white skinned person and this statement REALLY PISSES ME OFF

Does this hateful god-fearing woman really plan to someday govern this Nation of many mixed races? Mixed religions? Mixed values? Those who support war as well as those who prefer a peaceful approach?
Her statement SHOULD be made public since she wants to preside over a Nation where we should all have a chance, a place, and a dream to pursue.

I resent this stupid statement from anyone much less from a person who is living off ALL citizens who pay their taxes.
Her verbal attacks are more "uppity" & degrading to those she feels are beneath her, than anything Barack Obama would ever say or ever condone.

She is not fit to be my neighbor much less a beneficiary of my tax dollars.

Blaze

[goldcanyonaz]

114. What statement? There is no statement w/o proof.

[vaberella]

95. Exactly. Further more it's similar to the Michelle Obama & 'whitey' tape.

The people here are not seeing the importance or magnitude of what they say on the world at large. They may think it's a little haven and no one cares, but they use each thing here they can to hurt Obama with it. And it does hurt because this takes the media time and stage, they shout us out and say this is from "OBAMA's Camp". They can't seem to see past their own calls for vengeance of the last to stolen elections that Obama is NOT Gore or Kerry. He will work his damn hardest and he will do his best and he won't let people walk over him or them. I get the feeling they are actually have a low regard for our candidate.


He's seen what's been done in the past and he won't go there and he'll show to the world that there's somethign else. The people here, however, are stuck in the time period of then and react the same to the same actions that the Repubs used then. They haven't learned new tricks and our Candidate is a new cat on the block.

This crap is full of it without any information and as a Black person I was also turned off by the commentary.

[Mugweed]

97. So...

we should take your race into account when considering your opinion? Your header seems to say that we should.

[sniffa]

100. Though I in total, disagree with her..

I agree with her main point, but I don't think this story, if true, should not be exposed.

That being said, yes, you should take her race into account on this.

[flamingdem]

103. Good point Frenchiecat, repeating the story just puts the focus on race. Might be a Rove idea nt

[usregimechange]

105. That is why I skipped over that one, though it wouldn't be a big surprise

[NashVegas]

110. Is This A Joke?

After all the crap that got flung at Hillary and Bill Clinton in this forum, and all the posts that called Clinton voters racists, this?

[seaglass]

120. Amazing, isn't it? n/t

[liberaldem4ever]

116. I'm so sick to death of this nasty Sarah Palin woman

She doesn't hold any fascination for me at all. All she is is another lying, corrupt foul Rethug just like the rest of them that have been in the WH for the past 8 years. The only difference is that she is female instead of male.

I think we are feeding into what they want-attention (good or bad) to them and away from Obama and Biden. Not talking about the press investigating the wrongdoings and corruption part of it, but the flurry of talk about her family, her looks, what she is wearing, blah, blah, blah.

The more they can make this election about personalities and not about issues the more they win. And we CAN'T let them win. We can't even let it get close enough to steal this time either.

[Onlooker]

118. I think you make some good points, but ...

... some people here seem to fear Palin more than she should be feared, and they are willing to use any rumor or innuendo to tear her down. I certainly want her exposed, but exposed for her radical right, sexist, racist, and homophobic views. Rumors like the one you're talking about may provide red meat for those here who are scared or really angry, but they serve no other purpose. Unless others also overheard Palin or similar stories come from other quarters, this is the kind of rumor that is insulting but at least provides a form of catharsis for those who can't stand the fact that the Republicans regularly get away with even worse.

[democracy1st]

186. agrees there's plenty to go after in print,in court,on tape without following bs thanks for ur post

[EffieBlack]

119. What Frenchie said . . .

As usual, you're dead on.

[apocalypsehow]

124. K & R. n/t.

[TexasObserver]

125. Please STOP trying to be the Conversation police.

You've been on a tear lately trying to tell others what they should or should not discuss here.

Use HIDE THREAD if you don't want to see others talk about things that YOU find offensive.

If I see another thread by you telling people to stop talking about something, I'm putting you on Ignore with the other Thought Nannies here.

[apocalypsehow]

126. Frenchie Cat is spot-on, and you, well, whatever. Please put me on *ignore* now. Thanks. n/t.

[JoFerret]

165. The view is always better from higher ground.

Good to see you climbing up there.

[democracy1st]

131. she's trying to tell you guys that the GOP is using code words

Uppity ,degrading Community Organizer

[McCamy Taylor]

127. Strategy wise, Frenchie Cat has a valid point. Because the same

GOP moles that fed Matt Drudge pictures of Obama in a dress and attributed it to Clinton and who edited Hillary's 60 Minutes tape are perfectly capable of writing 1001 articles (and posts at DU) accusing every single supporter of John McCain of being a racist red neck---and signing their posts/articles GoBama-4-Ever . All for the purpose of making the Obama campaign look like a great big race baiting organization. After a while, ordinary people who haven't made up their minds will begin to think "Man, they are trying to use emotional blackmail on me! I don't like it!"

And there is not thing that Frenchie Cat or Obama or I or you can do about it, except protest and say "This does not represent the thinking of the Obama campaign!"

And it is going to be hard to know what is real and what is a RNC dirty trick---unless there is video or a transcript or a witness who comes forward with a signed statement, not some anonymous story that can be retracted later.

[VoodooGuru]

128. Yeah, I gotta admit, you're right.

Unsubstantiated and unprovable = fodder for freeps. And frak that, make it harder for them.

[democracy1st]

129. I support Frenchie who in their right mind wants RACE injected into this campaign

unless you have a video tape let that crap go ,we only have 8 weeks to go

[Raineyb]

143. You act as though it's not a part of it.

It is whether you want to admit it or not. We can pretend otherwise but we do so at our own peril. And if you wait for video tape before investigating ANY charges of someone saying something inappropriate you'll be waiting forever as most people don't bother to spew when there's a visible camera around, especially when said camera is being wielded by a philosophical enemy. Unless the point is to NOT bother to discuss and the lack of videotape is a convenient excuse.

Regards

[Number23]

154. This is EXACTLY what I can't understand

You act as though it's not a part of it. It is whether you want to admit it or not.

People act as though it's not already a HUGE, MASSIVE component of this campaign. I mean, what the hell is going on with this thread?? Does anyone honestly think that if we don't talk about race that it somehow won't be an issue??!

I truly for the life of me don't understand why there are a small number of posters on this board who are FOREVER telling everyone what they should and should not be discussing. I can't figure out what's worse -- The esteemed members of the DU Thought Police or the @ss-kissers who can't agree with them fast enough no matter how wrong they are.

[Runcible Spoon]

175. because some people want to think the Democratic Party is somehow magically "post-race"

and that just by nominating Obama, race politics are irrelevant since we are somehow "above" that. I know, it boggles the mind. Some are so adamant that they will suggest that anyone raising the issue is a disruptor with racist concerns. It is a huge mistake to assume that Democrats or any other large group is like some colorblind Benetton ad. The official stance is to conflate class with race, however although the two are intricately intertwined, the effects on people and the way class status and racial/ethnic identity are incorporated into the hegemonic structures of social institutions are uniquely different.

[democracy1st]

177. Push race with a party thats been using the Southern Strategy for 30 yrs and

watch Obama's ratings fall,even so call democrats used race against Obama in the primary. Now if you have 2 weeks to mess around discussing a problem that will not be solved more power to you. I would rather make more people aware of the Bush admin.

[Raineyb]

220. Race doesn't have to be "pushed"

It's right there in front of our faces; only the blind don't see race. Everyone else with some semblance of visual acuity can. Whether or not we wish to acknowledge it is another story.

The Southern Strategy is a RACIST strategy by the way. It's already "pushing" race. How else do you describe as strategy that basically says "paint the Democrats as too friendly towards black people and let the racists know that we think like them." We have a black man on the top of the ticket. There's no way to keep race out of it. And this country is NOT past race and if you think electing Obama will make it so you're sadly mistaken.

I see no reason why making people aware of what the Bush Administration has done (Although really by now where are these people? Under a rock?) and digging into this story must be mutually exclusive.

Regards

[Hekate]

130. I plead guilty. I bit, and now I'm sorry. I'll be so glad when this is OVER. nt

[RollWithIt]

132. I don't think anything is off the table with Palin.... she is just another lying Republican...

Nothing more... just the next one.

[SaveAmerica]

133. I have two important things to say on the subject:

1. I've been telling everyone in my circle about the crazy that is Palin (Did you know that she believes that Invading Iraq is a mission from God?). But this morning when I saw the Sambo post I was astounded that she would say that, but then I ignored it. A waitress who heard it but won't tell her last name is not a source, she's a chain in the telephone game. I went on to the next post. Everyone should try it, it's really good for clearing out the clutter in your mind.

2. I didn't know that you're a black person, I always imagined you an orangey sassy cat with white tufts of fur on your neck and ears. And carrying a baguette. I was raised in an environment where all races lived, worked and played together and it was great. I thought that's how the world was until I grew up and got out and saw how things really are. I love that the internet provides a place for everyone to start out on an even playing field and hope that with Obama as president it will jumpstart an America where when you meet someone they are a screen name and not a color or sex or race or disability.

[chascarrillo]

134. Uh, you do realize that the Palins have pretty deep connections with the "States' Rights" movement?

That's racist in and of itself.

Gov. Palin's demonization of community activists? That's also racist.

I don't really get how calling racism out is something that we should avoid. Silence is not a virtue.

[LVjinx]

147. States having rights is racist?

And belittling someones career may not be nice, but you think it's racist?

I couldn't disagree with you more, on either stance. The states are supposed to have all rights and powers not specifically given to the federal government. That's how our whole Constitution is set up.

[EFerrari]

149. No, the AIP party is racist. It has nothing to do with states' rights in general

but with that party.

[chascarrillo]

209. I don't believe you're that stupid.

[RaleighNCDUer]

192. Then go after her for those things which are documented in the

public record.

Hearsay is not documentation.

Understand, I absolutely believe she could, and probably did, say this. But without a video, it didn't happen. That's just the way it is.

[woo me with science]

136. Sanity. Finally. nt

[Left Is Write]

138. "Barack Obama is not running as the Black Candidate, he is simply running while Black."

That cannot be repeated often enough!

:thumbsup:

[Catherine Vincent]

139. "PLEASE, STOP IT."

You sure are demanding. :)

[Lorien]

142. If she has racist beliefs then we all need to know about it

because those beliefs WILL effect Federal budgets and MANY government programs if (God forbid) she becomes president.

[tannybogus]

151. I'm not saying you're wrong.

However, what is required before something is not considered just a rumor?

I'm talking about any story that comes up. I don't like rumormongering,

but what are the guidelines from rumor to truth? This is not sarcasm!!

[Spiffarino]

152. Got to stop biting at the bait

I suspect there is a lot of chum floating around, and we're swallowing every bit of it.

Time to put on the brakes, I think. I'll start.

[Vinnie From Indy]

155. Ignore Palin.

The Rovian strategy here is to make Palin the topic of discussion rather than marrying Bush to McCain. I am relieved to see that Obama/Biden campaign has not taken the bait.

[tilsammans]

171. I agree. Rove & Company's keeping the buzz around Palin . . .

. . . therefore, keeping the focus off the real issues.

Let's not take the bait. The Obama-Biden team isn't, and we shouldn't either.

:dem:

[JustAnotherGen]

156. FrenchieCat

I'm probably a little younger than you . . . but our ethnicity is somewhat similiar. ;-) This bi-racial woman has your back. And FWIW - you are 1000000% correct in your OP.

I don't want to see that effing word at DU on a Saturday morning.

[goclark]

157. Thank you Frenchie! If DU is allowed to keep "exploring"

this "no proof" issue that makes it OK for everyone to refer to our candidates in that manner.

As an African American, I am disappointed.

[madrchsod]

160. yup...no verification..no story

[L. Coyote]

161. I've been wondering what dirty trick distraction would follow on the baby.

Guess I'll have to go over to that thread to see how many names have been removed, a sure sign of freepers promoting false rumors.

[mcollier]

163. WE NEED TO DROP PALIN

FROM OUR CONVERSATION.... THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON GETTING PEOPLE REGISTERED TO VOTE. AND LAYING OUT THE POLICY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN OBAMA AND MCCAIN.


REPUBLICANS ARE COUNTING ON OUR BEING DISTRACTED...

[L. Coyote]

173. Disagree. We need to focus on the issues and Plins and on the issues

and her record, what she has said in the past,
what she has done and how she did in previous positions.

If Palin stepped into the Presidency,
the first thing she would have to do
is ask, "So, what exactly does the President do?"

That is an issue with me. It's my country too!

[mw]

166. I guess you'd be doubly pissed if you were black, and a woman nt

nt

[Kajsa]

167. You're right, FrenchieCat.

And as one who took the bait-

I apologize.

We need proof that this actually happened before
discussing it.

[marias23]

169. The Repubs Know this is War and the Dem's want to make nice

I'll spread a rumor if it helps stop these people.

The Repubs lie without regrets

[whistle]

170. I agree, but the phrase is attributed and confirmed to Sarah Palin

...so it is not a rumor, she said it.

[Life Long Dem]

178. And what attributes are those?

[RaleighNCDUer]

194. Who confirmed it?

There is one statement, and once source. No confirmation.

It is a rumor.

And I think she DID say it - so how do we PROVE it?

[Zombie2]

176. Totally agree.......

...but not going to stop digging for proof.

[RaleighNCDUer]

184. What is with all these memory impaired DUers?

Doesn't ANYBODY remember how Bill said some very iffy things about his wife's opponant - none of which were outright racist but which could be interpreted as race baiting - and when he was called on it the Hillary camp turned the tables and said OBAMA was bringing up the race issue.

IT POISONED DU FOR DAMN NEAR A FUCKING YEAR!

Now, when Palin is accused, without any substantiation - no tape, no video, no room full of witnesses - of a far more virulent statement

DO YOU NOT THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO THE SAME THING THE HILLARY CAMP DID TO OBAMA?

He is running against McCain on the issues, not against Palin on race.

FUCKING FOCUS!

[slackmaster]

197. Wonderful reply

Thanks, NCevilDUer.

[dailykoff]

204. Um, Clinton lost.

Talk about memory impairment!

[RaleighNCDUer]

208. And all her gains were in the last weeks of the primary

AFTER it was turned into a referendum on race. And the bitterness about it persists to this day.

Make this a race about race, and it will be close enough for the repukes to steal. Keep focused on the issues and they CANNOT compete. They got nothing.

If we come up with video showing McCain or Palin being inequivocably racist, THEN we can use it and let them try to talk their way out of it. Anything less we shouldn't even touch, or they will turn it around on us and have us fighing on the battlefield of THEIR choosing.

Sun Tzu's 1st rule was to never fight if you don't have to, and the 2nd rule is always choose your own ground - never let the other side decide where to fight. Going there on this violates both.

[bjnumb9]

228. Very well said. This shit pisses me off, no matter which side is doing it.

People need to pull their heads from their asses and, as you so eloquently stated, "FUCKING FOCUS."

[defendandprotect]

185. I think we'd be much better off in following the Lenny Bruce example

of dealing with the language ---

Get it out in the open - give it some light and air --- discuss it --

much better than allowing it to be hidden.


As far as the GOP, it is a sexist, racist, homophobic party of "Christians."

Let's deal with that!

[OneGrassRoot]

188. I couldn't agree more. :) n/t

[Beregond2]

187. I 'm trying to see your logic, but I can't.

Race will always be a part of this election. Nothing anyone says or does changes that.

As a gay man, if a reliable witness reported that Palin made a reference to a "fag," I would want to know that.

[guruoo]

193. Like it or not, story's out there, and Palin has yet to deny it. n/t

[Bette Noir]

254. Palin's not talking to the press

without an approved script from the McCain campaign. That's enough for me to not want her anywhere near the White House.

[liberalcanuck]

195. Agreed. K & R'd. This is pure nonsense at this point and appears to me to be a

a diversionary tactic to distract us from the real issues.

I consider this kind of crap "radioactive". Stay away from it! We can win on the issues.

[crim son]

205. Hear, hear.

I was just looking at the subject line of the "sambo/bitch" thread and thinking, it may not be true. Then I saw your post. :hug:

[georgecolombo]

206. All I Can Add Is: Remember Dan Rather!

Even if there is underlying truth to an allegation, it's important to be patient enough to get the details right. I believe that Rather was set up; it's certainly Rove's M.O. Along the same lines, I'd be suspicious of introducing into the political dialog anything that doesn't have pristine sourcing.

[Swagman]

210. I respect your view. Palin should be allowed to hang herself-and she will !

[emilyg]

211. K/R

[peacetalksforall]

214. Frenchie Cat - I think there is a middle road ...

If people would pause and think and then add a couple of words to there comments they could get around this.

They could acknowledge that it might not be true, but if it is ..... etc. They can remind each other that it is not proven. The can preface remarks as "If true ....".

We know that Obamas' handlers are not going to react to this because it is hearsay, but we have to consider that it can go on a list that we may hear about again and in the meantime vent in a measure way.

The suspicion surrounding it could mean a trap - so there are two reasons to pause -

You request to consider that he is running not as a Black and not to join in Black smeers.

The suspicion is that the waitress does not want to be named, but the writer has a first name and the waitress says she is half and half. It's so traceable. It would be easier to believe if no names were mentioned.

All the Republicans are circling around and trying to find out who she it (except the evangelicals - she's been suscessfully vetted with the mention of family values and abortion with them). We can too.

We can circle and look-talk while keep cautioning each other to not say anything that makes it look like it's a done deal and cemented in as DU truth - we should write to avoid getting something entered in Scopes with a denial.

[democracy1st]

217. only problem is we have so much info on her already

troopergate etc, we're trying to get traction on that issue before the GOP lawyers block the case

[peacetalksforall]

248. good point, but a different point from the op. I back you on pushing this. Will change.

[codjh9]

218. The L.A. Progressive says the same thing. What are we supposed to do, ignore it?

If she's a racist, and it damn sure looks like she is, and a really bad one at that - I just read what she said about Eskimos as well - then it NEEDS TO BE POINTED OUT. Although the dumb-ass segment of our public who are likely Repub. voters probably don't give a shit, I admit.

[neuvocat]

221. There was no video or audio tape.

There are no actions or steps she has taken against non-whites that would back up those claims. This is one of the things that are so serious that have be backed up with a lot more evidence. Widespread hearsay isn't enough.

[Baby Snooks]

219. But he is the Black candidate...

"Barack Obama is not running as the Black Candidate, he is simply running while Black."

The interesting thing is that Barack Obama is mixed-race rather than one race. I believe he himself considers himself an African-American. So in that sense he is the Black candidate. And what a joyous day it was when he became the official candidate. Instead of taking offense by it, you should be rejoicing it. I am and I am not African-American.

The problem is the racists. They consider him the Black candidate and are opposing him on that basis. Some Democrats will not vote for him on that basis. Pretending that it is not a problem is not the solution.

It would be wonderful if we were at a place in our history where he would have just been "the candidate" but as the Supreme Court, Sandra Day O'Connor in particular, stated when considering an affirmative action matter, we are not at that place. But Barack Obabam will get us there.

[tomreedtoon]

222. FrenchieCat, do you want McCain to win?

This is a fight for what's left of America. Democrats have a tradition of not fighting for anything, and especially not the dirty streetfighting that has won so often for Republicans.

The evidence says that Palin used the "Sambo" line. This is a direct way to rip apart that romantic God/family/hockey mom crap with which she was sold to the nation, which is now causing the Grandpa/MILF ticket to win over Obama/Biden.

If you insist on fighting with velvet gloves on, we lose this nation. The Democrats MUST use this ethnic slur for all it's worth.

[bjnumb9]

229. If someone can actually confirm that she's said it,

then we should use it. Lucille the Waitress's word is not exactly going to hold water. A woman in TN will tell you that she hangs out with a family of Bigfoots and that they speak English. Hell, in her case, you've at least got a last name to tie to her story.

[RaleighNCDUer]

230. What evidence?

There is nothing more than a "he said/she said" going on here. If we have real EVIDENCE, a tape, a video, a note in her handwriting, THEN we can use it. Someone's unsupported word is NOT evidence.

[tomreedtoon]

275. Do you think Obama's "Islamic" connection has proof?

And look at all the hay the Republicans have made about it. If Democrats are too wimpy to even suggest that a known bigot said something like this, if they can't take advantage of this, this election is lost.

Or are you one of those fools who believe that a good politician is always, always truthful?

[Kahuna]

223. Agreed Frenchie. The repukes would love for this accusation to go public.

It's a trap.

[trevjr]

227. As a black person, I want this out in the open

a waitress told a reporter what she heard. Palin is free to deny it and then maybe another witness will come forward. With the other evidence of her racism, I happen to believe this story on its face. What is the big deal?

From what I have read, white people in Alaska have a lot of racist words for non-whites. That is all the proof I need.

So odd that someone on DU is telling others what they should or should not be writing about.

Very odd.

[FrenchieCat]

237. What's odd are your 31 posts, and as you must know then, Black folks keep it real, and

understand what I am talking about...

The Black folks that identify as such, that I know well here at DU...
well most of them have responded in this thread at a 180 degrees from
what you are writing.

So maybe you're at odds. A 5 percenter, perhaps? :shrug:

[bkkyosemite]

244. I meant no disrespect and haven't read the other posts but will I truly was asking your thoughts.

I apologize if I have offended you it was not my intention.

[babythunder]

261. I think your out of touch

Speaking as African American myself. The minute Obama threw his name into the hat race entered into the equation. Hell Obama himself gave a speech about race in America over Rev Wright's comments did you think he was wrong in doing that should he have remained quiet and allowed the Rethugs to smear him as some anti-America, anti-Jewish, and anti-white? It's not so much about pitting white voters against black voters (which is how you are making it seem) it's about pointing out Palin's intolerance of all those who are not white Christians. But I suppose you think we should just ignore any personal negative commentary that comes out about Sarah Palin.

[genna]

231. The Republicans are running him as the black candidate

so did Hillary in the primaries.

Why would discussing this sambo story kill his candidacy?

I know the MSM says that being black and not transcending race will hurt BHO's chances of winning, but what do you think will happen?


BTW, I am black.
I have been wondering this entire election when it will be possible for a black man or woman with 2 black parents to win the presidency and not have to transcend race.

[Raineyb]

242. Every time I someone says "transcend race" I always hear "transcend being black"

You ever notice how white people never have to "transcend race?" Only black people do as though there's something about being black or non-white (Because frankly this can easily refer to other groups I'm sticking to black and white since we're discussing what may or may not hurt Obama.) that needs to rise up in order to be acceptable to ordinary white people. (Transcend never implies a downward motion after all.)

I too wonder about the possibility of which you speak. I also wonder if Obama would have gotten as far as he has if his father was from America and as such had the "racial baggage" the media often ascribe to black people.

Regards

[politicasista]

232. A good K & R to this post

We survived the primaries, but this looks like Rovian quick sand, so me will not walk in it.

OTOH, I am ready for the debates. Actually, I am just at the point where in the words of Keyshia Cole, I just want it to be over and send Obama to the WH even if he has to limp there. :)

[cornflake_31]

233. Agreed

They have used race as a way to keep us divided too long. Lets talk about the real issues.

[Raineyb]

277. What makes you think race isn't a real issue?

Perhaps not in this context, although I still find it interesting and worthy of investigation but on the whole it is an actual issue for some of us. It's not something we have the luxury to ignore.

Regards

[jennied]

235. I think all threads discussing Palin should just go away. We're making her more popular

by discussing her. Doesn't anyone realize this? It hurts Obama!

[bkkyosemite]

241. Frenchie I agree with you...but I also have a question as you state you are black

Why does everyone that I have listened to call Obama the first black candidate for President. His mother was white. Is he not just as white as he is black. Why can't the MSM or whoever just say this is our first Senator from IL running (not sure if that is the case re: first from IL but just as illustration) or if you must talk ethnicity how about this is our first ethnicnally diverse candidate. I always felt awkward with just calling him black as he has a mixed heritage and if they are going talk about his ethnic background then say what it really is, mixed heritage or diverse.

Francie I thuoght you might have a good insight as to why this is and thank you in advance if you choose to give me your persception on this. It would be appreciated or from anyone else for that matter. Thank you. K.

[Tim4319]

251. Maybe this will help you understand. It is call the "One Drop Rule"

Here is the definition from Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

The one-drop rule is a historical colloquial term in the United States that holds that a person with any trace of African ancestry is considered black unless having an alternative non-white ancestry which he or she can claim, such as Native American, Asian, Arab, or Australian aboriginal.<1> It developed most strongly out of the binary culture of long years of institutionalized slavery.

This notion of invisible/intangible membership in a "racial" group has seldom been applied to people of Native American ancestry (see Race in the United States for details). The concept has been chiefly applied to those of black African ancestry. As Langston Hughes wrote, "You see, unfortunately, I am not black. There are lots of different kinds of blood in our family. But here in the United States, the word 'Negro' is used to mean anyone who has any Negro blood at all in his veins. In Africa, the word is more pure. It means all Negro, therefore black. I am brown."<2>

During the Black Pride era of the Civil Rights Movement, the stigma associated with sub-Saharan ancestry was turned to a socio-political advantage.<3>

[bkkyosemite]

256. Thank you for this information. This is eye opening and not right! This kind of stuff has to stop.

Obama is an intellegent professional and noteworthy individual to be a candidate for President.

[Buzz Clik]

250. So ... if she said it, what then?

[Redstone]

253. As a person who is not black, I absolutely defer to your opinion, although I don't

really know what the "sambo/bitch" ruckus is about in any detail.

Furthermore, besides the fact that I believe that NOBODY who is not black can judge issues of white/black racism with anything like the authority that black people can, I salute you for standing up against rumormongering.

You are absolutely, positively correct in the asertions in your post. I'm going to recommend it, if the reccommending time has't run out.

Redstone

[ZombieHorde]

255. Awesome K&R&Thank you!

[Stop Cornyn]

268. As a Bitch, I have no problem with those discussing this "Sambo/Bitch" rumor at this forum

The investigation has to start somewhere. If it starts with a person confessing what they heard (even if they weren't wearing a wire), that makes other people who have heard the same thing step forward, and eventually the truth will come out.

It must start somewhere. Why not here?

[JoFerret]

271. How about " as a decent hiuman being" ?

[Mimosa]

272. Listen to Frenchie: she was right about what was required to get Obama to top

Frenchie, the waitress rumour appears to be just a rumour. Racial politics are just what we DON'T need right now.

[Raineyb]

278. The racial politics have already been engaged

What do you think the "southern strategy" is?


Regards

[Monk06]

274. Your real name isn't Adrian Piper is it? You sure sound like her.

[BronxBoy]

279. Sorry..

I'm Black and I disagree

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6971887&mesg_id=6971887