Please do NOT call Sarah Palin 'PRO-LIFE' - she is not that, she is ANTI-CHOICE

[LynneSin]

I'll use a good example of pro-life vs. anti-choice; although, I'm sure a few people will flame me there is a clear example of the difference between the two.

Take for example Sen Bob Casey Jr. out of Pennsylvania. Without a doubt the guy is pro-life. He opposes abortions except in cases of rape, incest & mothers health. But Bob also believes that family planning is important especially the use of birth control and even supports EC. And Bob also believes that the best way to eliminate abortions is by addressing issues such as better sex education for our children above and beyond 'abstinence-only'. But the fetus thing doesn't end there for Bob. Outside of the whole abortion stance Bob Casey is pretty progressive. He has had a long stance of supporting labor and expanding healthcare coverage. He has also had a strong history of inproving public education for our childen. In a nutshell, when the fetus becomes a child - Bob Casey still cares and still fights for that child.

Sarah Palin is none of these things. She is strictly anti-abortion across the board, opposes EC, and birth control AND wants abstinence-only education in our school. And as you can tell with her record as governor, Sarah has slashed funding for important programs that help Alaskan children (especially special needs children) and and is not on the side of labor. In a nutshell - once the fetus is born, Sarah could care less about the child. She is not pro-life, she is without a doubt Anti-Choice.

So please do NOT use 'pro-life' when describing people like Sarah Palin - it's really a term coined by republicans to soften the rhetoric of what anti-choice is about. Sure, I used the term for Bob Casey, but I truly thing Casey deserves it ESPECIALLY when I saw Casey vote against a few harsh activist judges that Bush had appointed.

There is a different so let's use the correct terminology.

[Midlodemocrat]

1. She's pro-fetus, not pro-life.

BTW, you missed an awesome wiki edit by DS1. He's dead to me. Again.

[HockeyMom]

6. They are Pro BIRTH,

not Pro Life, because if they were, they would care about what happened to these children after DELIVERY. They don't.

[TooRaLoo]

11. My thoughts exactly. nt

[LynneSin]

13. If she was 'pro-fetus' explain that whole birth thing with the trip to Texas

Someone pro-fetus would have gotten their ass over to a hospital ASAP to ensure the fetus was in good health.

Nuff said.

[Midlodemocrat]

65. No way. She wanted to REMAIN pregnant.

:rofl:

[Kerrytravelers]

2. She is forced-birth. She couldn't give two cents about life.

[d_b]

3. she's pro dead-women

because that's exactly what will happen if she gets her way.

[Ian David]

4. She's not anti-choice. She gave her daughter the choice of whether or not to have an abortion.

So, Sarah Palin is anti-choice-for-everyone-except-her-daughter

[WinkyDink]

7. Source?

[Ian David]

8. Let me go googling. brb. n/t

[TwilightZone]

10. Really?

Wow, that would be a bit of a bombshell, if we can confirm it.

[LynneSin]

14. Link?

Because if she did give her daughter the choice then this is HUGE!!! Because it shows the hypocrisy of abortions - available on-demand for those with means and those without are screwed

[BrklynLiberal]

29. The only choice I heard about in the situation was the choice to have the baby.....

There was no mention that an abortion was an option.
The talk was that Bristol was allowed to make the CHOICE to have the baby, and they want it to be a private matter...so therefore, the pro-choice people would submit, all girls in that situation should also have the option to make a PRIVATE CHOICE about what to do about a pregnancy.

[unblock]

32. she claimed she was proud of bristol's "choice", and legally, she could have gotten an abortion

but sarah never revealed what hell she threatened to unleash on bristol had she actually had an abortion.

so there's choice and then there's pressure and coersion.

[Diamonique]

41. I think she probably gave her daughter the "choice" to keep the baby...

... or put it up for adoption. Bristol "chose" to keep the baby, so Palin is proud of her daughter's choice.

I doubt that she allowed Bristol to include abortion in her list of choices.

[dysfunctional press]

5. i use the terms people choose for themselves on the issue. pro-choice and pro-life.

and i'll continue to do so.

sorry...:shrug:

[LynneSin]

15. Then she's selling you a fluffy package of lies

She has not done one thing that shows me she believes cares about the child (other than her own) once it is born.

Don't buy into their fancy terms to soften the blow - I'm ok with a pro-life politician like Bob Casey provided there was no other pro-choice candidate available in the election. But Anti-Choice - NO WAY!!

[dysfunctional press]

18. not really.

if someone tells me their name is 'bob', i don't just decide to refer to them as 'not-mitch'- i use the name they choose to go by for themselves or their organization.

in that respect, maybe you're not really as 'pro-choice' as you'd like people to believe...(but no matter how opposed to choice you actually are, i'll still refer to you as 'pro-choice', because that's your choice of descriptive monikers. :hi: )

[LynneSin]

47. You can't even compare the two - geez, this is my right to make decisions for my own body

I could call someone Bob, Rob, Robbie, Bobby or Crap and that means shit when it comes to choice.

But a woman who doesn't want me to have access to safe, reliable abortions, birth control, emergency contraception AND teach me that my only option is no sex til marriage PLUS slash funding for programs that can help raise a healthy baby with the opportunity to get a decent education, healthcare and a chance to live the american dream - well that's no Bob vs. Rob. That's trying to make their harsh, ignorance stance sound pretty so people think losing these rights are no big deal.

[dysfunctional press]

75. and it's their right to make decision about their CHOICE of names...

right? after all- you claim to be 'pro-choice'...why don't you support them in their CHOICE of names?

[redqueen]

24. You're sorry for helping the right wing frame the debate using their skewed meaning / language?

Sorry... apology not accepted.

And please don't point out that you're only apologizing to LynneSin, because for that, you should apologize to women everywhere.

[dysfunctional press]

31. if you don't like it- tough shit. that's how i roll.

sorry. :hi:

[redqueen]

36. Again - apology not accepted. (nt)

[dysfunctional press]

52. oh well- i tried.

and that was the only one you're gonna get.

[redqueen]

62. Telling someone "tough shit" during an apology is "trying"? (nt)

[dysfunctional press]

76. as much as i'm going to, yes.

nt

[BrklynLiberal]

33. Pro-life is a semantic trick devised by the neo-con fundies to disguise the true purpose of their

movement..which is entirely dedicated to controlling women.

If they were really so pro-life, they would provide medical care, education and other necessities for the mother and particularly for the new-born child.

Ms. Palin did, in fact, cut back funding for groups that try to help unwed mothers...


Surprise..They are hypocrites. Once the fetus leaves the womb, they could not care less what happens to it...particularly if caring is going to take money out of their pockets.

[dysfunctional press]

35. it's also the name THEY'VE chosen- so it's the one i use and will continue to do so.

semantic games are just that.
everyone has a right to name their own cause.

[redqueen]

37. What if a racist called himself "old fashioned"?

What then?

[dysfunctional press]

53. well- it's a strange name, but if that's what he chose to go by- i'd honor his decision....

just the same as if he chose to go by ed, or john, or arnold thumptwanger.

btw- if you're supposedly pro-CHOICE, why are you against people CHOOSING their own monikers? :shrug:

[redqueen]

63. Your logic thingy is broken.

:hi:

[dysfunctional press]

66. no- but your hypocrisy is definitely showing...

pro-"choice"...rigghhtt...:eyes:

[redqueen]

70. Are you implying that you think all choices are equal and must be supported?

If someone's "pro-choice", then I have to support someone's right to choose anything and everything?

Is that what you're implying?

Cause no offense, but that's just batshit insane.

[dysfunctional press]

77. you don't have to support the choice they make- only their right to make a choice for themselves...

isn't that what being "pro-choice" ultimately boils down to...? :shrug:

that's one reason why people who claim to be "pro-choice" but don't support the other side exercising their right to choose their own name are just a bunch of pathetic hypocrites.

[redqueen]

79. NO! "Pro-choice" means you support a woman's right to choose.

Unelievable that you even believe the idiocy you're spewing.

Done with ya. Enjoy your stay.

[dysfunctional press]

83. if 'pro-life' can be contorted to complain about support for the death penalty...

why does 'pro-choice' only apply to pregnant women?

you either support people having the right to make their own choices, or you don't- you don't get to pick and CHOOSE which instances it should apply to.

like i said- around here anyway, pro-choice= PATHETIC HYPOCRITES.

[Left Is Write]

40. Calling one side "pro-life" quite naturally implies that the flip side is "anti-life."

For this reason, I eschew the "pro-life" term.

[dysfunctional press]

54. so- you're obviously NOT 'pro-choice' then, huh?

seeing as you don't believe in people CHOOSING the name they want to go by, and all...

[Left Is Write]

55. That's certainly an interesting interpretation.

[dysfunctional press]

58. and completely valid.

[Left Is Write]

59. No, I don't think so, but you go ahead and labor under that delusion if you'd like.

By the way, these are the same people who use the emotionally-charged term "partial-birth abortion." There is no such medical procedure as "partial-birth abortion" and yet they continue to use that term because it suits the inaccurate picture they'd like to paint. I'm not going to help them do so.

[dysfunctional press]

60. if you consider yourself "pro-choice", then you're the one laboring under a delusion.

sorry.

[Left Is Write]

67. You do understand what "pro-choice" means, don't you?

It means I favor and support freedom of reproductive choice for all women. It does not mean "I let my opponents frame the debate however they like while I can't answer back."

It does not mean I have to allow myself to fall for the tactics of a faction that would like most of my reproductive rights taken away. Some of those on the other side of this debate refer to abortion as "murder" and say they are crusading to stop the "mass murder" of "millions of innocent babies." I'm not obligated to use those terms either.

They can call themselves whatever they want to. I am under no obligation to use their language.

[dysfunctional press]

74. and you know what "pro-life" refers to as well, right...?

how come it's okay for you but not them...?

THAT'S why 'pro-choice' people who complain about the 'pro-life' moniker are a bunch of raving hypocrites.

[Left Is Write]

78. For Pete's sake. No, we are not hypocrites.

"Choice" refers to reproductive choice, reproductive freedom, and autonomy over our own bodies. It does not mean we must use the language of the other side. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand.

Obviously, I understand what "pro-life" refers to. I strongly disagree with this terminology and thus refuse to use it. Do you understand that? I refuse to use that language in the context of the reproductive rights debate. This is in no way hypocritical, and that you view it as such is rather telling.

[dysfunctional press]

84. if 'pro-life'- can be contorted to complain about people's support for the death penalty...

why does pro-'choice' only apply to prenant women? :shrug:

choice is choice. and if you're going to pretend to support "choice", then that also includes people's right to CHOOSE the moniker they go by.

if you can't understand that, then maybe you should find another name to use than "pro-choice"- find one that actually describes your sentiment, in regard to people NOT having free-choice to when it comes to their group/movement's name.

[area51]

82. The question is actually ...

do you know what pro-life refers to. If members of the nazi party were actually pro-life, they'd be on the forefront of fighting for single-payer healthcare. If they were actually pro-life, they'd get upset about 273 people dying in the U.S. every day due to lack of healthcare here in the states. That's 100,000 people dying here per year. Isn't it interesting that every anti-abortion person I've talked to doesn't give a good goddamn about the baby once it's born, and if said baby they "saved" from abortion has a heart defect, it's perfectly ok if the child dies because their parents can't afford treatment for the baby, because (wait for it), the rightwing isn't pro-life, they're pro-death. Our healthcare delivery system -- as it stands now -- is very efficient at culling the population, and the nazi party loves it that way.

[dysfunctional press]

86. so- if 'pro-life' is to be extended to all aspects of existence, not just birth...

why isn't pro-'choice' treated the same way? those fucking 'pro-choice' hypocrites don't want people to be able to exercise their right to choose their own name.

[BrklynLiberal]

44. Much like BushCO's "Clean Air Act", "No Child Left Behind" etc..

They can call it whatever they want...but that does not impart the person or group with the actual qualities that the name may imply.

I could call myself the Queen of Sheba, but that does not mean that I actually am.

[dysfunctional press]

57. exactly right.actions speak louder than names.

just because they decide to call themselves 'pro-life' doesn't make it so- but it is their right to choose the name they'll go by.

[xxqqqzme]

90. It may be they have 'chosen',

They just don't want you to have that option cuz you'll probably choose wrong.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

85. Then you

are not doing women any sort of service- The framers of Pro-Life do not give a rats ass about the "life" of the children in the 3rd world countries who are dying - or of the Iraqi babies being slaughtered.

Pro-Life my ass - they are anti-choice- They are almost always in favor of the DERATH PENALTY. How pro life is that?

[dysfunctional press]

88. then you obviously don't know the meaning of "choice"...

the framers of 'pro-choice' don't give a rat's ass about people actually having the right to choose the name they choose to go by. sounds like the supposedly 'pro-choice' hypocrites are decidedly "anti-choice' as well.

[tularetom]

9. These people are not "pro" anything

Their entire existence is defined by what they are against. The term pro life is a PR coup they pulled off with the press years ago to make them seem to be in favor of something rather that opposed to something.

[justiceischeap]

12. Plus she supports the death penalty... that kinda makes you not so 'PRO-LIFE' (nt)

[MH1]

16. She and the Republican Party are PRO-DEATH

as in, if you are a woman who will die without an abortion, they want you to die.

According to conservative radio host Smerconish, the 2008 republican platform calls for a ban on ALL abortions for ANY reason - no exception for rape, incest, or even the life of the mother. (All admit I haven't had the time or the strength to find the official platform and confirm it. But Smerconish ain't no liberal and I don't think he would say that unless it was true.)

We need to be calling the republicans PRO-DEATH and when challenged, explain why.

[AtomicKitten]

17. I absolutely agree; there's nothing promoting LIFE in their rhetoric.

K&R

:applause:

[femrap]

19. PALIN IS PRO-RAPIST!

PALIN IS PRO-INCEST!

SCREAM THIS FROM THE ROOFTOPS, WOULD YOU?

[redqueen]

42. Why scream a bunch of nonsense?

That's just asinine.

[Cha]

20. palin and her band of marauders are not Pro Life..

they're Anti Choice. They want Government telling you what to do with your body.

They want War, Killing animals for OIL and sport, and they absolutely don't care if the Environment is killed right off.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. Youare 100% correct. This is another example of the neo-con fundies taking control

of an issue by framing it with language.
They are very good at this..and the Democrats must learn to do the same..and to counter this misleading practice by the right.

[Major Hogwash]

22. Some of us are old enough to remember what life here was like before Roe v Wade. Never again.

We should never ever treat women like that again.
Ever.
Never.

[redqueen]

23. Damn right. Language is important!

:yourock:

[demobabe]

25. She is ANTI-ABORTION, and ANTI-BIRTH CONTROL

Call the Anti-Abortionists what they are. Not Pro-Lifers.

If they were Pro-Life, then they should be marching for peace and demanding an end to these senseless wars.

[redqueen]

27. No, not anti-abortion. I'm anti-abortion. I wish they weren't necessary. But I'm PRO CHOICE

because I believe that women should not be denied their right to make that decision for themselves.

[BrklynLiberal]

50. She said that even if her daughter had been raped, she would not support her having an abortion...

In November 2006, then gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin declared that she would not support an abortion for her own daughter even if she had been raped.

Granting exceptions only if the mother's life was in danger, Palin said that when it came to her daughter, "I would choose life."

At the time, her daughter was 14 years old. Moreover, Alaska's rape rate was an abysmal 2.2 times above the national average and 25 percent of all rapes resulted in unwanted pregnancies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html

[Orsino]

72. She's rabidly anti-abortion. We are sanely so.

But I agree that "anti-choice" makes that distinction elegantly, being consistent with so many Republican agenda items designed to reduces our choices.

[redqueen]

80. Exactly. We need to work on our sound bytes.

They've controled our langauge to benefit their twisted idiocy for FAR too long. Sick of it.

[LynneSin]

48. Which btw, my example of Bob Casey - he wants to end this war too

he's probably one of the few really true pro-life politicians out there.

[Blondiegrrl]

26. In journalism school, I was taught that there was no such term as "pro-life."

Here is what my AP Stylebook says:

Use "anti-abortion" instead of "pro-life" and "abortion rights" instead of "pro-abortion" or "pro-choice."

That differs somewhat from my college journalism classes in that we were instructed to use the terms "pro choice" and "anti-abortion." "Pro-life" was NEVER an accepted term.

[geekgrrl]

28. THANK YOU! "Pro life" drives me nuts!! They are ANTI-CHOICE

They're against a woman's choice to have a baby, the very choice that Sarah Palin herself made when she decided to have Trig.

I LOATH the use of "pro-life."

[progdog]

30. Pro-life has bothered me for years.

"Anti-choice" is the correct description. No more use of "pro-life".

[proud patriot]

34. I'm calling her anti-birth control who would have all 16 yr old girls

pregnant, who fooled around .

she would love to take the control of family planning away
from the family and give it to the courts.

Framing It

[redqueen]

39. Anti *birth control* is the best way to refer to people who share that type of zealotry. (nt)

[Bubbha Jo]

38. I'm pro-reality myself

[stuntcat]

43. 40,000 people die every day anyway.. pro-life my ASS

40,000 starve to death every day, mostly young children. If those pigs really cared about moral issues they'd be taking on some big disasters, not trying to step on individual American women's rights. And it is about taking power from women, even if a few of the "Christians" trying to make those laws happen to be women.

[LibGranny]

45. Pro-Life or Anti-Abortion?

I have these discussions with my family about Palin (we're ALL Obama supporters) and I ask them to say Palin and her ilk are not pro-life because if they were they wouldn't be for this horrible war and sending those young people out to die for a lie! Aren't these young people who are fighting and dying daily as important as a fetus? To me the repubs are anti-abortion - not PRO-LIFE!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

49. No, anti-choice

They loath abortion primarily because it's an indispensable component of practical male-female equality.

[Quixote1818]

46. She wants the Government in your bedroom! nt

[OHDEM]

51. The same people that wants government out of their lives...

or at least out of any form of regulation or taxes, is more than happy to try to control the most difficult & personal decisions. It's all about holding back women. That's why I hate Palin. They're using her with this "sexist" shield while hiding their own horribly sexist belief-that a woman shouldn't control her own body.

[Beausoir]

56. Absolutely! Palin is as anti-choice as they come. That's why it is ironic that many here at DU

are poking their snouts in the woman's uterus.

Palin is vehemently anti-choice. She believes it is HER business what is going on in the wombs of women.

And, sadly, it appears that many Du'ers feel the same way.

The "bad mother" comments, the lewd ponderings on lactation as it regards Palin and her daughter, the incest and pregnancy joke threads that DU supported...really. What a sad spectacle.

[POAS]

61. But she said her daughter

made the right CHOICE!

[SoxFan]

64. .

[Lyric]

68. There is no such thing as a pro-death penalty pro-lifer.

No. such. thing. That animal does not exist.

Anyone who is against abortion, against birth control and sex-ed, and in favor of the death penalty is PRO-PUNISHMENT. That's it. Pregnancy as a punishment, death as punishment, it's all about punishment. Life doesn't enter the equation.

[OnionPatch]

69. This is a FREEDOM issue.

Freedom to make your own decisions about your own body without government interference. And I wish that's how our side would frame it more often.

Republicans scream "freedom" from the rooftops. They want complete freedom for business, and talk about letting the market do its job, but they won't apply the same philosophy to cultural ideas and beliefs. They don't want personal freedom at all. They hate "big government", they talk about "personal responsibility", but they want big government to step in and prop up their religious and moral values by forcing them on everyone else, even when their views are in the minority.

Republicans don't believe in freedom.

[mvd]

71. Recommended

I always have used anti-choice. How can they really be pro-life if they are pro-death penalty, pro-send them off to war, pro-you are out on your own, anti-stem cell research, voted against health care for kids, etc.

[demokatgurrl]

73. THANK YOU!!!!! Kicking because this one of my pet peeves n/t

[depakid]

81. Hey, we almost agree on something!

Casey is at least somewhat consistent in his beliefs.

The same can't be said of most rabid Republicans.

[zulchzulu]

87. I always preface it with "so-called" pro-life... n/t

[ClassWarrior]

89. Get out of the RW frame completely. Palin is against women's rights.

Period.

NGU.