What kind of change?

[demon67]

Please help me answer this question, for myself and others. Obama's main campaign theme has been "Change You Can Believe In." It is obvious that electing Obama will bring change -- dramatic and historic change -- from Bush's policies. No doubt. But here is my question:

Is the change that Obama is promising more or less the same change John Kerry promised; or is it somehow different?

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. be proactive and do your own research

Are you a responsible citizen of this Republic? All the information is there for you at Obama's web site:

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

You should especially view the plans on tax/economy, energy, education, and health care to determine whether those will work for you. No laziness, now. This is an important decision that will affect the future my children and your children will have to live with. The least you can do is spend an afternoon reading through the materials and developing the knowledge you need to make a sound decision for the future of this country.

have fun!

[demon67]

3. No laziness here . . .

I have read Obama's plans on his website, watched his interviews and read virtually every piece of writing at DU and elsewhere on Obama and the election generally. My review suggests that Obama's plans are largely, if not entirely, the same as Kerry's. Is there some substantive position where Obama is offering the American public a different path than Kerry did four years ago? I am not saying he should or should not offer something different, but is there anything different? I am not seeing it.

[whistle]

4. "...read virtually every piece of writing at DU and elsewhere on Obama"

...I'm amazed you even had time to post the question.

[demon67]

5. you're right

I have spent way to much time following the candidates, the issues and the polls. I guess everyone needs a hobby.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Since you are such an astute and comprehensive researcher,

you should be able to demonstrate in concrete terms where and how this similarity appears in the materials. A side-by-side comparison of policies would be the best way for somebody like you to demonstrate the similarity. When you have produced this write up of your extensive research, we should be able to discuss the similarities you have discovered in depth, and perhaps also explore the question of why it should matter one way or the other.

I await your in-depth analysis.

[demon67]

8. Thanks

No one seems interested in the topic, so I will refrain from writing a research paper, but thanks for responding. I think you answered my question.

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. cart before the horse

Nobody is responding because the charge you ask people to confirm or refute lacks any specific content. How, then, should people confirm or refute it? As it stands, it is merely an empty hypothetical, and therefore worth little effort in response.

[demon67]

11. Actually

The question is not hypothetical, in that it does not require any assumptions or rest on any hypothesis. It is a simple question and one that I am unable to answer and others are apparently disinterested in answering:

Are there any substantive differences between the change Obama is offering in 2008 and the change Kerry was offering in 2004?

The answer matters to those, like myself, who came to support Obama early when he was running as an advocate for post-partisan change ("We are not red states; We are not blue states; We are the United States" and "I will put Republicans on my cabinet") and are uncertain whether that vision of change remains intact. It also matters because the Republicans will surely seek to boomerang the "McSame" argument into an "O'Kerry" argument -- namely, "Obama's positions don't represent 'change,' they are the same as Kerry's, four years ago." I don't think this argument is a winner (for obvious reasons), but it may impact some swing voters (independents and Republicans) who voted against Kerry in 2004, but are considering voting for Obama in 2008.

Finally, my question is not a "charge," as you stated, because I am not making any accusations; nor do I think there is a correct answer. Seeking the kind of change in Washington sought by Kerry is right and noble. Seeking a bipartisan, reach-across-the-aisle kind of change in Washington can also be right and noble. Either way, it is important to know what Obama is seeking and what we as supporters can expect to find come January.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. I await your in-depth comparison

Cheers.

[Frances]

2. John Kerry did not run on change

Rove had the Swift Boaters attack Kerry on his strongest point: his heroic Vietnam service (unlike McCain, he didn't get captured) which was supposed to reassure voters he was stronger on defense than Bush

The economy was in much better shape in 2004 than today and Bush's tax cuts were still popular

Change wasn't the appropriate theme in 2004 that it is today

[demon67]

6. Little help? Anyone?

There is no right answer. I am honestly just curious to know. As best as I can tell, substantively, there is little or no change in Obama's 2008 platform and proposals versus Kerry's 2004 platform and proposals. I see some minor tweaks (e.g., increasing rates on incomes of $250k instead of $200k; openness to off-shore drilling), but no major differences. Is that correct or am I missing something?

[TheKentuckian]

10. The change is from the failed policies of Bush/Cheney

their cynical worldview, and divisive rhetoric.

The change is how America will lead in the world and deal with both it's allies and enemies.

The change is to end the generation old failed Reganomics that have gutted the middle class and poor.

The change is to believing in and using science to confront evolving problems and obstacles.

The change is to a bottom up society, rather than one that sees 95% of the population fight for crums that fall from the table.


Go ahead and write your lame ass paper on how Obama's change represents more of the same of Democratic policy because these are the changes we need to make.

Go ahead and write about how the selection of long term Congressional veteran Joe Biden is not change because these changes aren't a show. Joe Biden is what is right about the Senate and if we had 100 such people who wake up every day to actually work for the people that he represents and our nation then few would call the Senate broken.


While you're at it you can figure out how McCain can try to push a 'reform' message and then define that as an escalation of the Bush/Cheney (Reagan) failed and rejected policies.

[demon67]

12. Thanks for weighing in . . .

and I agree with you. As best as I can tell, the change being offered by Obama is to turn away from the failed Bush/Cheney policies in favor of the policies advocated by Kerry/Edwards.

You can trust that I have no interest in writing a paper. And please, please don't ask me explain how McCain can push a "reform" message. I don't think McCain is Bush Lite. I think McCain is Bush Heavy. Same Bush taste, with twice the calories. More tax cuts; More social spending cuts; More war; More bluster; More bravado; etc.