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Is it likely that Palin would have accepted the running mate job with a pregnant daughter?

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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:36 AM
Original message
Is it likely that Palin would have accepted the running mate job with a pregnant daughter?
Many of you seem certain that McCain didn't know about the pregnant daughter. That means Palin would have deliberately kept it from the McCain team. Does that really sound plausible? What do you think her intentions would have been? To surprise McCain with the news later on? To keep Bristol and eventual baby in hiding indefinitely? Neither of those is plausible. True, it doesn't make sense that McCain would have chosen her had he known. If his intention was to appeal to the fundie base, why would he choose someone who was such a blatant example of the FAILURE of abstinence only sex ed? Why wouldn't they have scrubbed Levi's blog and his sister's beforehand? Why wouldn't they have announced the pregnancy from the start so that they could at least tout it as, "see? she's keeping the baby!" instead of having to appear as though they were ashamed of it? No, it's impossible to believe that McCain knew anything about a pregnant teen. But it's equally impossible to believe that Palin knew and would withhold that information from McCain. Can anyone really argue otherwise?

The only plausible explanation is that Bristol ISN'T pregnant. Trig is Bristol's, and Palin thought she could get away with pretending Trig is hers. The McCain people didn't know about it because they didn't do any research. This is damage control, and Bristol will eventually have a "miscarriage". Why isn't she marrying Levi now? What are they waiting for?

McCain isn't planning to carry out this deception forever. He is going to drop Palin. And soon. And then those who are looking into all this are going to have a much harder time. People will have lost interest. If it is eventually exposed, it won't hurt McCain nearly as badly after he's already dropped her. And the people still looking into it will be much easier to paint as "meanies" who just want to pry into the life of a teenage girl whose mother isn't even playing a role on the national political stage anymore. Right now, we are in a race with McCain. Can we get this scandal exposed before he finds a way to drop her with the least political damage? If we let this opportunity pass by, those of us with any sense are going to be kicking ourselves. We will have given up our best chance to make this election a slam dunk and to strike a blow against the religious right and the GOP in general that will last a very long time.

I see people repeatedly talking about not wanting to take the "low road." And even many of the ones who support pursuing this seem to be accepting that there is something ethically questionable about it and that it's justified only by the ends. But I disagree. I don't see anythig about this that qualifies as the "low road." Low BROW perhaps, but not low road. No one has put forth an ethics based argument as to why this would be a wrong thing to do. If we avoid this simply because it seems too sensationalistic and not intellectual enough, then I guess the Republicans are right and we really are just "elitists." Maybe this is all a bit Jerry Springerish for your taste, but we're not the ones who created the situation. And remember, the Jerry Springer show is very popular. It's true that Republicans wouldn't have a moment's hesitation in pursuing this if the situation were reversed, but I don't base my actions on what Republicans would do. I have my own moral compass, and there is nothing about pursuing this that hurts my conscience. The one aspect of it that would have given me pause disappeared the moment they threw Bristol to the wolves.

And if we're talking ethics, how can any of you sit there and say it's ethical or right to let Bristol and Trig be made a part of this deception? We know this sort of thing used to happen all the time and it caused a lot of pain for all involved. At least back then it was somewhat justifiable because of the stigma placed on unwed mothers and the children they bore. But in this case the only thing Palin was thinking about was her own political career. It's unfortunate this can't be looked into without involving Bristol and Trig to some extent, but I look at it this way: suppose we had a candidate who was accused of molesting or abusing his/her kids. I'd want to find out the truth even if it unfortunately meant the children's privacy would have to be compromised a bit. And this is a much less invasive situation. And it IS abusive is a sense.

I don't think this is some well-hidden plot that we'll never be able to find the truth about. I think a lot of the pieces are already known. All we really need to do is start putting it all together until the truth of it becomes undeniable. Please. I'm begging you. Do not let this opportunity slip through our fingers. Do not turn a blind eye to a situation that can cause two minors a lot of heartache simply because you don't want to dirty. Dirty isn't necessarily bad or immoral. Sometimes it just means you're willing to do the work.


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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ambition is a powerful motive. Ask Macbeth.
Edited on Wed Sep-03-08 08:37 AM by WinkyDink
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Wasn't Macbeth's wife the more ambitious of the two? Out, out damned spot!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. From his soliloquy:
I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself,
And falls on the other. (1.7.16)
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's simple. She wasn't properly vetted and she didn't disclose.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. she was already under state investigation
so I doubt that they care about distractions much....Didn't Stephanie Miller say on Larry King the other night "Weren't there any Republicans with zero experience who AREN'T under state investigation that could have taken the job??"


Another interesting thing....I remember hearing a couple of weeks ago during the Biden selection, that Obama was leaning more towards Chris Dodd months ago and is more comfortable with him, but he was basically out when the stories about his loan came out...even the APPEARANCE of wrong doing, whether or not it was committed, made Dodd out of the running for the Obama campaign.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Whose ambition Palin's or Nine's?
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. So what do you all think Palin's plan was?
Do you think she was going to eventually reveal it to McCain or keep it hidden indefinitely? What do you think she expected McCain's reaction to be? Or do you think McCain really did know all along? Give me a plausible scenario, if you can.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not if she were a normal parent.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. I predicted a miscarriage yesterday. If Bristol truly is pregnant
Edited on Wed Sep-03-08 08:48 AM by bushisanidiot
the stress of all the media attention (brought on by her MOM running for VP!!) may indeed cause her to lose the baby, and that would be a horrible thing for her to go through (I miscarried at the age of 20 so I know). However, if she's not pregnant and Trig is her's, the miscarriage story is a perfect cover. Either way, the democrats will somehow be blamed for the media attention, as if the democrats got Bristol pregnant while she was still in high school.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. another reason to debunk this NOW
If Bristol has a "miscarriage," we'll REALLY be in a bad position. Ironically, although it would be a strong piece of evidence supporting the theory that Sarah faked the first pregnancy and Bristol faked the second, no one will be able to say anything at that point because all sympathy will be for the Palins. I think these people watched Bob Roberts and took it as a how-to manual.

And I'm still waiting for a plausible scenario regarding Sarah withholding information about a 5-month pregnant teen from McCain.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm hoping Bristol goes full term and has a happy, healthy baby.
I also hope her mother chooses to do the right thing and end her campaign for vice president of the united states of america. Sarah's kids need her right now.. especially baby Trig who will need lots of extra attention. Bristol and her child will both need Sarah's attention as well. Then there's Sarah's other two children, one only 5 years old. Yes, the Palin father can step in and help, but kids need their mom.. especially in difficult times. This is no time for her to be an absentee mom.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well if she really is pregnant now, so do I
I simply don't believe she really is pregnant now.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. There's a lot of stretching going on here.
There's a lot of evidence that Sarah faked a pregnancy to cover up for Bristol. A lot. But the main argument I see that it DIDN'T happen is simply that it's just too crazy. But now the same people who are saying the story is too crazy to be true want us to believe either that McCain chose Palin knowing Bristol was 5 months pregnant and not married or that Palin withheld that information from McCain and somehow thought everything would work out. Now THAT'S crazy. I mean when you have to stretch belief that far, why not just go with the crazy story that at least has some evidence backing it up? There is no way McCain knew about this and no way Palin would have not told him. It's ridiculous. More ridiculous than the faked pregnancy idea which has actually been played out quite often in generations past.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's time to give this up.
Bristol is pregnant now and Palin's bizarre and dangerous TX/AK labor story is true.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. You have nothing.
You have nothing but your bullheaded insistence that the story can't possibly be true. Based on... what, exactly? Those of us who believe Bristol is Trig's mother have offered plenty of evidence. I've offered a reasoned argument why we need to pursue this - ethically and strategically.

You naysayers on the other hand have nothing. Nothing. Tell my WHY we shouldn't pursue this? Tell me WHY you think the story can't be true. Give me a plausible scenario where Sarah agrees to be running mate knowing her daughter is 5 months pregnant. You can't.

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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Based on photos of Sarah Palin when she was pregnant...
I guess you didn't see the photo taken by a local photographer a week or so before she delivered where she was clearly pregnant.

Based on her statistics versus Bristol's of having a Down's child (and pictures taken from the rally last week show that the child is clearly a Down's child).

Based on the fact that Bristol is clearly pregnant now, meaning that, at best, she would have had to get pregnant weeks after Trig was born (though the pregnancies likely overlapped).

You go ahead and believe what you want to believe, I'll stick with reality.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You cannot be this naive.
Do you really think pregnancies are so hard to fake? Do you think the pregnant characters you see on tv and in movies are really all played by pregnant actresses? Palin looking pregnant doesn't prove anything. Bristol looking pregnant now doesn't prove anything. The fact that Trig has Down Syndrome does make Sarah more likely the mother, but that's one piece of evidence FOR versus many pieces of evidence AGAINST. Have you seen the photo of Palin on Super Tuesday (supposedly six months along) looking very flat-stomached? Why was Bristol out of school all that time - much longer than this supposed pregnancy? Have you seen the thread about Hawaiian governor Lingle who claims Palin started labor at the conference and gave some other conflicting information? Something is not right here, and we have a very short window to figure this out. The other stuff can wait.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. What proof is there that Bristol was out of school?
There are reports that she transferred to a different school for a semester.

Please provide your proof that she was out of school completely for 5-6 mos.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. the reports aren't exactly clear
summarized here

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/water-breakgate-day-4-more-iss.php

Per an LA Times story - "Bristol is "finishing up her last year in high school," she said. Bristol attended Wasilla High School last year but left, said Principal Dwight Probasco."

Per the Anchorage paper - "Mark Okeson, the assistant principal at Wasilla High School, said Bristol started her junior year there last fall, in the town where Sarah Palin grew up, but Bristol transferred to an Anchorage high school mid-year"

From the NY Daily News - "Mark Okeson, the assistant principal at Wasilla High School, told the Chicago Tribune that Bristol started her junior year last fall, in the town where Sarah Palin grew up."

He said Bristol inexplicably transferred to an Anchorage high school midyear, leaving Levi behind. "I never heard the story why," he said."She was very well respected, very kind to be around. She ran in lots of circles."


Seems like the Palins could clear this up very easily. Why don't they?
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Are you referring to the photo circulated on Free repubic??
Edited on Wed Sep-03-08 11:49 AM by Labors of Hercules
are you honestly referring to THAT picture as opposed to oh, ALL of the others that show the OPPOSITE?

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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I don't hang out at FR, so I wouldn't know. nt
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. well, now you know.
I've never visited free republic, but it was re-posted here on DU with a link.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. It's about Sarah Palin's POLITICS
Anti-abortion. Anti-education. Anti-science. Foisting her values on everyone else, when clearly her values don't work. If we don't get the focus where it belongs in a hurry, we're going to have a lot bigger fight than we ought to.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. Give it up. Her loony politics is the real issue, not fantasies of covered-up pregnancies.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. and again... nothing
You call it a fantasy, but it's no crazier than the alternatives. What's your plausible scenario? Where's your evidence? No one's stopping you from exploring her loony politics. Why are some of you so determined no one pursue this?

By the way, did you know her doctor is no longer listed as a physician at the place Palin supposedly gave birth?

http://web.archive.org/web/20061104152526/http://www.matsuregional.com/staff/show_speciality.php?speciality=Family/General+Practice
http://www.matsuregional.com/staff/show_speciality.php?speciality=Family/General+Practice
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I'll shut up...
when I get a plausible scenario :)
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