Rove Brillant? LOL Remember he lost the 2000 presidential election

[trumad]

with his boy 17 points ahead after the 2000 RNC convention.

[Awsi Dooger]

1. Correct, and he expected 325+ electoral votes

Including a clean sweep of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida, the three hotly contested biggies of 2000. A night before the election, he reportedly told aides all three would be a cinch.

Minus the Florida garbage, Rove would be remembered as a strategic flop who blew a consensus lead and every important state versus a flawed opponent who was underwhelming in the debates..

I give Rove credit for contesting West Virginia while we slept, and to a lesser degree Tennessee, otherwise his general election reputation could not be more unearned.

[trumad]

2. Good post

My favorite rebuttal to folks who say that Gore blew 2000 is the 17 point poll lead that Dubya had after the 2000 RNC convention... 17 points.

After this RNC convention, Bush and JK will be even. That should put big fear into the pudgy face er genius, Karl Rove.

[indyjones1938]

3. umm

The very fact the Bush lost the 2000 election, yet is sitting in the White House today, is perhaps the greatest example of Rove's strategic prowess.

Nobody is saying Rove is brilliant. But he is arguably the best political strategist of all time. He will do absolutely anything to win. He doesn't care if it's immoral. He doesn't care if it's libelous. He doesn't care if it's illegal. He will destroy the lives and careers of anyone who dares stand in his way - that includes Democrats, Republicans and the media. He has done it countless times in the past. He will do it again in 2004.

Let me put this in perspective for you, since you obviously haven't researched Rove's history very much:

--Democrats are trying to win the election by racking up as many votes as possible. Their goal is to score 270+ electoral votes on November 2nd.

--Rove is trying to win the election by disenfranchising as many voters as possible, rigging as many Diebold voting machines as possible and committing as much voter fraud as possible. Rove doesn't care how many votes Bush gets on November 2nd - popular or electoral. He is far beyond the point of trying to "win" the election by traditional means. Rove is determined to keep Bush in the White House. If that entails paying off Kerry electors to vote for Bush instead, so be it. If that entails sending out legions of operatives to harass, intimidate and physically attack black voters at the polls, so be it. If that entails breaking local, state or Federal laws, so be it. Rove doesn't care about the laws, he can break as many as he wants and get away with it. He doesn't care about the media, because everyone in the media is scared to death of him. He has stated in the past that he will destoy anyone - and their family - who dares stand in his way.

I know you'll flame me and call me an "armchair strategist" or "surface politico" or whatever. I don't care. If you underestimate Rove, you lose the election. Simple as that. He is willing to do anything and everything to keep Bush in the White House.

Since you clearly don't know much about Rove's history, I suggest you watch Bush's Brain on DVD for starters. There are a host of other books and articles dealing with his past criminal acts as well, beginning during the Watergate years when he was the young protege of famed Nixon propagandist Segretti.

[trumad]

4. Oh please

then explain how his boy was up 17 points to Gore and still managed to lose. And explain why this war time pres went from 90 percent positive to 39 percent?

If this guy was a football caoch he'd be fired. just because he's a sleazeball Atwater protege doesn't mean he's brillaint.

[indyjones1938]

6. n/t

I never, ever said Rove was brilliant. I said he was a masterful political strategist.

Look, I understand what you're saying about the Gore poll numbers. But the fact is, Bush lost the goddamn election and yet he's sitting in the White House today. It takes a strategist who is down and dirty and unafraid of the law to put a losing candidate in the White House. All of the voter suppresion efforts in Florida (2000) and Florida (2004) have been touched by the hand of Rove.

Consider also:

-Bush has presided over the largest net loss (3,000,000+) of jobs since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression. Unemployment rates are skyrocketing. Farms are closing up and factories are shutting down.

-For the first time in over 25 years, the few jobs being created in the United States are paying $9,000 a year less than the jobs that we're lost.

-A record number of Americans have lost their health insurance over the past four years. HMOs and insurance companies are out of control. Seniors and families simply can't get the medications and health care that they need.

-A record number of Americans are now living in poverty (see the new figures from www.census.gov). Families are working two or more jobs and still can't keep food on their table for their kids.

-The American public education system is now in shambles as a result of Bush refusing to fund No Child Left Behind. College tuitions have skyrocketed, state universities are facing budget cuts because of a lack of Federal funding.

-The "war on terrorism" has failed miserably. Americans in big cities now live in constant fear of attack. We have at the helm a president who knew that the 9/11 attacks were going to take place. He got a PDB in August of 2001 and ignored it. Some even say, with a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence, that he WANTED the attack to take place ("a new Pearl Harbor").

...and yet, somehow, this idiot of a president is running neck-and-neck with John Kerry in the polls. It shouldn't be that be that way. John Kerry should be blowing this guy off the map. John Kerry should be pulling 350+ in the electoral counts. The only reason that Bush is holding his own is because he has Karl Rove and other crack advisers at his side who are, somehow, magically able to turn his weaknesses - e.g., terrorism, education, the economy - into strengths. I find it mindnumbing that Bush's greatest liability - terrorism - has somehow turned into his strongest trump card. It's sick and disgusting, and speaks to the political savvy of Karl Rove, who realizes that the American people are a stupid and naive bunch who are willing to believe anything that the government feeds them.

[trumad]

7. But Dubya is in the White House

because of Daddy's friends and the SCOTUS.... Not Karl....

In your Analise's you fail to mention the other side.... One: Moran America...Two: 9/11, three: Moran America and it's belief in the Iraq War. Four: and I saved this one for the last... The Media.

I could be a er brilliant political Strategist if I had all those in play...MHOP

[Zinfandel]

16. Your right on the money indyjones1938! This PIG, Rove is by no means...

"brilliant"...but a lying fascist ugly, evil, wicked piece of shit of a human being, who will do everything illegally possible to steal this election...

However, fuck the little pig Rove, he is nothing to be afraid of!!!

[StClone]

5. Rove is a student of History

His attempt to draw violence (the violent party to lose respect and votes) in the NY GOP Convention appears to have not worked. NY is too Dem and too well-behaved to be used as both a 9-11 prop and violent protest.

[BillZBubb]

8. Once again you miss the point.

Ask President Gore about that.

Look, Rove had a dimwit candidate and was running against a sitting Vice President from an administration that had the MOST SUCCESSFUL economic growth period in the history of the world.

He kept the focus off of his dim bulb as well as anyone could have. He totally neutralized all of Gore's issues like the economy and Social Security and education.

He put the focus completely on Al Gore's supposed exaggerations and stiffness. This frivolous shit stuck.

Rove ran a brilliant campaign in 2000--Gore should have won in a walk, a landslide. But he didn't. Rove is doing it again this year. Bush* is now an even worse property than in 2000. People know he's a dolt and has messed up everything. Yet, he's still in the race.

[indyjones1938]

10. n/t

You're exactly right.

But the majority of people here at DU clearly underestimate Rove, and neither you nor me nor anyone else is going to change their minds.

:shrug:

[Generic Other]

9. Thanks Trumad. Now, will you please go set this dude straight?

First time I have ever had my intelligence called into question for not thinking Rove was brilliant. What is wrong with some people?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x685658

on edit: typo

[A_Possum]

11. A master political strategist? Why choose NYC for the RNC then?

It was supposed to be a hero's welcome, flowers in the streets, children singing.

Kinda backfired, Karl.

[West Coast Democrat]

13. Reminds one of the welcome he expected in Iraq!!!

[West Coast Democrat]

12. Interesting that DU is suddenly swarming with Rove worshippers

I wonder how much he's paying them.

Anyway, any political strategist who manages to completely lose all of the good will that existed for Bush* & America after 9-11 is certainly no brilliant political strategist.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Some of us are having technical glitches in trying to post here

It was reported in the Bug forum.

[West Coast Democrat]

15. I was the one who posted it

I was finally able to post after attempt #5

[greatauntoftriplets]

17. How does recognizing Rove's abilities = worshipping him?

Machiavelli also was a master strategist (and I imagine Rove learned a lot from reading "The Prince").

That doesn't mean I "worship" Machiavelli or Rove.

And NO ONE is paying me to say that.

"I am greatauntoftriplets and I approved this message."

[indyjones1938]

18. n/t

Sorry XanthaS, I don't see any Rove worshippers on this thread. Only a few people, like me, who rightly view him as a very potent threat. If you haven't read up on Rove's political past (blackmail, threats, money laundering, harrassment and violence), I suggest you do so sometime soon.

But I do see people like you and trumad, trying your hardest to convince us that Rove is not a threat and we should all just let the wind blow the willows where it may. It's kinda like the spy with a white flag who sneaks across enemy lines and tells the troops that the general on the other side has no plans to attack, and then, when they let down their guard and lay down their arms, the enemy forces come storming over the barricades.

Sorry, XanthaS, but it isn't going to work. The Kerry-Edwards campaign considers Rove a very serious and lethal threat, hence why they have recently brought Michael Whouley onto their team. If you want to underestimate Rove, fine. I don't care. But don't accuse those of us who have read our history books to be double agents.

Here's a question to ask yourself:

Why, with the economy at its lowest point in 70 years, record unemployment, record numbers living in poverty and constant threats of terrorism...is Bush still garnering 50% of the vote in most polls? Why, when the country is in the worst shape it has been in since the Great Depression do nearly 50% of Americans approve of Bush's policies? Why isn't his approval rating in the dumps, where it was a few months ago? These are serious questions that Democrats need to ponder in the next two months. The Kerry-Edwards campaign is putting up a very strong fight. I approve of their tactics, for the most part. Sometimes I think it is their supposed supporters who are waving the white flag of surrender instead of fighting like hell in the trenches. :shrug:

[West Coast Democrat]

19. Rove is only a threat because he lies & cheats

Any idiot can lie and cheat. What's so brilliant about that?