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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:33 PM
Original message
I need debate help!
OK as an Alaskan who can't stand Palin and as a new member to this site I need some help! Today at the store I was grinding coffee and a guy with a newspaper began to use the grinder next to me. I glanced at the paper and of course Palin is on the front page. He saw me looking at it and said "isn't it great!". Of course I said heck no she's completely unqualified and has been a terrible governor. After a bit of conversation he said 2 things that I didn't quite know how to respond. #1 he asked would I feel the same if McCain had chosen Bobby Jindal of Louisiana as his VP (apparently he is younger man with hardly any experience either) and #2 how can I say that Palin has no experience to be only VP when Obama has no experience to be President? Anyway I did my best to answer both questions but as an Alaskan I need to refine my arguments so I can better get the message out!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama has shown leadership since he was a young man
You don't get picked to be editor of the Harvard Law Review because of your beauty. Obama was a successful community organizer in Chicago before he spent 8 years, I believe, in the Illinois General Assembly, where he helped pass important legislation. He's been a US Senator for two years. His campaign organization has shown his ability to be an administrator.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama has been tested, in the public spotlight, for nearly a year

and has garnered the Democratic nomination.


He has been able to demonstrate his ability to stand on the world stage and be recognized as an individual that can deal with other world leaders.



He is running against John McCain for President and not Palin.
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I like this, Thanks! nt
nt
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. You could remind him that even though one has experience...
...the same person may lack good judgment. I heard that Alaska has a larger deficit than it did prior to her being in office. If we look at the deficit that Mrs. Palin ran up in your state. She may have experience in coming up with a budget for the state, but if she used poor judgment, how is this experience a good thing?
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Can't use that we have a large budget surplus
which was large enough for her to send out $1,200 to every Alaska man, woman, and child as an energy credit. The rest of your post is well taken!
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. The surge in the price of oil is delivering your surplus.
Not your governor. Does that help?
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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. On the Jindal thing
Bring up that his extreme Fundamentalist ideas (exorcism) are way off-base with most Americans and when in Congress voted to make the Patriot Act permanent. On the experience thing, 2 years ago she was a mayor, and before that on the PTA. Obama has been a US Senator, a State legislator, he worked in a law firm, he volunteered in campaigns, and he has taught law in college as well.
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Good stuff on Obama and Jindal
but this is also what I'm talking about; in this thread alone I've seen 3-4 different versions of either Palin's resume and Obama's resume. We need to be accurate. Palin was not mayor 2 years ago. 2 years ago she was president of the oil/gas commission. Her mayor role ended in 2002 I believe. And before that (1992) she was PTA and city council until Mayor first time in 1996. It does us no good to skimp on either side's resume otherwise we look like we're foolish.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. These two Republicans will answer that for you
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. Easy...
The ONLY reason why they went after Palin, is because she makes the FUNDIES all wet and warm in their dirty parts.
Bobby Jindal could have been their choice, but they wanted to PANDER to the "alleged" disappointed Hillary supporters.
She's a woman, so she won by default.
Republicans don't give a rats ass about this country, they only care about winning, and retaining power.

Obama, is running for President, with a rock solid VP candidate by his side.
And Oh, he's not a whore for the oil lobby, and won't get your kids or grandkids killed in some illegal war that's he's bound to start.








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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That's some good stuff! She did raise taxes
on the oil companies though with a type of windfall profit tax so I need to be careful on that issue. Obama does have a ROCK SOLID VP choice that I'm very happy with now. The things I have been hearing (negative stuff) is that our ticket is backwards. At least our party actually cares about the country and our young men & women!!
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Just an FYI -- being a "whore for the oil industry" is NOT something most Alaskans would consider
to be a bad thing. After all, it's because of the oil industry that, (a) they have no state income tax and, (b) every man, woman and child gets a big fat Permanent Fund Dividend check every year -- over $1,000 in free money.

Just sayin'...

sw
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. My Repub brother asked me what I thought of her
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 05:55 PM by Sugarcoated
This is the approach I took. With a straight face I said, "Well, Alaska is right next to Russia", which he kind of got. When someone there was like, "Huh?", I laughed mildly, shrugged my shoulders and said, "That's what Cindy McCain said . . . but seriously . . ", My brother: "Well, she does have more experience than Obama", Me: "Bullshit. It's going to be won or lost at the top of the ticket. It's not about how old you are or how many years you've served, it's about judgment."

Keep it on point - it's not about the VP, it's about McLame and more of the same. This one doesn't need to be debated. People can connect the dots. It's not about experience, it's about judgment.

I have to add - the couple of debates I've had since Thursdays speech and this pathetic VP pick, the demeanor of my RW friends/family has changed dramatically. I always win debates with my bro . . . till he gets mad and storms out of the room. B-)
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I like it!
Because it is NOT about how many years you've served or your age (and I think we need to back off McCain on that point). It IS about judgment!
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Experience
Organizing and running a national campaign and getting past Hillary Clinton took a bit of experience. Why couldn't Sarah Palin do that?
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's easy to respond to. McCain is actually less experienced than his running mate.
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 05:56 PM by vaberella
The Jindal statement I don't know where he's coming from with. It could be slightly racist since Jindal is of Indian descent I believe.

Jindal has pretty good resume. Really young, but ambitious and smart and moved up to Republican Governor of Lousiana in a few years and was like second best after Palin as a choice. He's not very experienced but he has a lot education under his belt than she does. The problems with Jindal is that he thinks he was an exorcist and it's an on going joke. So beside his race which could have been what he was talking about, he has this skeleton in his closet of sorts, he's actually publicly proud of it.

huffingtonpost has an article on him you should read...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/who-is-bobby-jindal-the-g_n_103045.html

Now the second, that's even easier to argue. Obama have executive decision making is their argument. The Senate doesn't provide executive decision making experience like being a Governor does hence they claim she has more experience.

But the strongest argument you can make is that McCain then is less experienced with executive decision making than his running mate because he was never Governor and was ONLY ever a Senator. So that argument doesn't fly. It actually makes McCain look even worse and more inept than Palin.

Obama has been in the Senate for 8 years and the State of Senate for 11/12 years. So the guy has been in Washington or around washington for roughly 20 years. Further more, he's a social activist and civil rights lawyer and youngest person to be head of the Harvard Law Review.

Now you're comparing the above with a woman who was president of the PTA, Mayor for about a year to two and Governor for 18 months. With only a BA in journalism and minor in Poli Sci from Idaho University. <---Is there much to compare.
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Obama's been in the national senate for 8 years?
And state senate for 11-12 years? I thought it was 4 state and 2 national. Palin was mayor for 6 and governor for 2. I need to be accurate in my debates or it just opens doors to them. The rest of your post is spot on!
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Hold on.... Cleared up info.
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 06:33 PM by vaberella
http://obama.senate.gov/about/
During his eight years in the Illinois state Senate


Committees
http://obama.senate.gov/committees/

Wiki at times does wonders--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
Obama was elected to the Illinois Senate in 1996
Obama was reelected to the Illinois Senate in 1998, and again in 2002
Obama was sworn in as a senator on January 4, 2005


http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet_barack.php
Illinois State Senate, where he served for eight years.


How ever he's been actively working with or in part for the State Senate since 1996, his first election. That's why they mean he has 8 years as Senator and 12 years within the his work for State Senate of Illinois.

Palin was mayor for 6 years starting in 1996, from being on the city council in 1992 and then she ran for office of Governor and sworn in Dec. 2006, so she's only been there for 1 year going on 9months.

Obama still beats her overall for political career. Plus you can't compare the demographics they ruled over.

Palin in Wasilia was controling a little under 6,000 people, while Alaska's population is under 700,000. Obama was Senator of Illinois population of 12+ million Chicago alone is a litle under 3 million.

They are massively different in status. Palin can't even compare. We didn't even talk about the bills and acts he passed and assisted on, which Palin has not.
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You are absolutly right, I just to make sure I'm accurate nt
nt
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. Well..
Harvard law(plus review president) vs journalism degree

President of Harvard law review VS Sports Anchor

Community organizer then Constitutional law teacher for 3+12 years vs city council for 4 years

State Senator for 8 Years, elected 3 times, with 48,000 votes VS mayor for 10 years elected 2 times with 900 votes

US Senator for 3.75 years, elected by 3,597,456 Votes, representing 12,852,548 state residents (ie aprox 30% of all residents of the state voted for him) VS Alaska Governor for 1.75 years, elected by 114,697 votes, representing 683,478 residents (ie aproximately 17% of the residents of the state voted for her)

Elected to be Democratic presidential candidate by aproximately 18 million votes VS chosen by one man to be VP


Hows that for a rundown on experience and credentials.
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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I can appreciate the vast majority of that
but the information is not accurate & we need it to be. Palin was mayor for 6 years 1996-2002, then chair of the oil/gas commission, then governor. Don't give her more credit than she is due :-)

Obama I thought was 2 term state senator not 8 years?
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Regardless, the info on Obama in #14s answer is correct.
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 06:27 PM by EC
You should know Palin's info better than we since you are there...The Constitutional Law professorship is important since we have abuses of power both with your Palin and with Bush now...Working as a community organizer is important too, look at all one has to do just to organize a community into action that actually accomplishes good outcomes.

The notion that Palin has more experience is ridiculous..and it is insulting to even claim such...

She may have more "executive experience" that remains to be seen, since cummunity organizing requires executive leadership and as I remember Obama did work while in college, remember retail management is considered "executive" too...

On Edit: http://obamasresume.org/


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akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Ok Thanks!
And yes I do know Palin's "resume" pretty well and wiki is right on this occasion:

Palin was elected to two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996, then won two terms as mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002. After an unsuccessful campaign for lieutenant governor of Alaska in 2002, then chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004 while also serving as Ethics Supervisor of the commission.

I just want to be as accurate as possible and let the facts sink their ship all by themselves :-)
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Your right
I flubbed the mayor bit, and skipped over the commissioner part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_State_Senate

Not 100% sure I read that right, but as I read it each seat rotates terms, 4 years, 4 years, and 2 years. I believe that makes him a three term senator, but I could be misunderstanding what I read
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. Here.....
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 06:51 PM by FrenchieCat
John McCain is running against Barack Obama. As a 72 year old man who has fought four bouts of Melanoma, his task at hand, and his most important executive decision to make was to select a Vice President that would be ready for the job of running this country if needed. With his choice of Sarah Palin, he demonstrated that his motto is "Win First, Country be damned".

To compare Sarah Palin's experience of running a town of 8,000+ people into the ground, or governing Alaska, the 48th most populous state in the nation for not yet 2 years to Barack is improper, as she is to be compared to Joe Biden, since they are running for the same job.

Alaska experienced an oil boom shortly after she was sworn in (just see when the price per a barrel of oil shot up), and to credit her is ludicrous. She may be a nice person who hunts and fishes, but this is a big election which will not be about small things such as who can shoot a gun the furthest. Maybe Americans can have it all, but I question the wisdom of the mother of 5 young children believing that she can give them what they truly need (especially since one as special needs) and work a job that, to be done well, is a round the clock proposition. Which rationally leads one back to the sanity of the person that believed that this was the setup for a good situation.

In reference to Barack Obama's qualification for becoming President, the first is that he contested in the primary elections, was thoroughly vetted, and won his party's primary. In otherwords, he interviewed for the position, and got the job because he earned it. In America, the people get to decide who has enough experience, and it was determined that Barack Obama does.

Twenty years ago, Obama was elected President of the Harvard Law Review, an office that required executive experience to get the job done. The Presidency of the Harvard Law Review is not simply a title, meaning, the President actually has work that he/she does. In addition, Obama has attended the best schools in this country, is highly educated, and holds a Law Degree. Barack turned down prestigious offers, and instead managed Project Vote in Chicago in 1993. That year, via his executive and organizing skills, Barack was seen as key in putting another Democratic Senator into the senate. That's call results. http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/

Barack Obama was also a State Senator for 8 years. Again, he was elected to that office, and his district's constituents numbered in the hundreds of thousands. He drafted laws and passed legislation that effected the 12+ million who resided in the state of Illinois.

Barack Obama has also been a law professor at the University of Chicago, and a civil rights attorney. Both jobs provided much experience and the requirement of a fluent working knowledge of our constitution and a thorough understanding of how government works.

Barack Obama became a United State Senator 4 years ago, and represents the 5th most populous state in the Nation. He has passed major legislations, and has sat on major committees, both on domestic and foreign issues. He has worked closely with those associated as the top leaders in our government and he has passed important bipartisan bills that have affected 300+ million Americans.

Further, Barack Obama started a presidential campaign from scratch, and in so doing, created the best ran political organization our history has ever witnessed, shattering records after records.

For nearly two years, using vision, innovation, technology, intelligence, endurance, tactical genius, and a strong macro management style, Barack Obama has shown us all exactly what his executive skills are. He defeated a well oiled political national machine in the process, one that the Republicans have yet to defeat (not from lack of trying), doing so with all of the deck stacked against him, and the race card being played by the media at every turn. The unified convention that the Democrats pulled off, despite the constant 24/7 media hype promoting chaos, is a full demonstration of Barack Obama's leadership abilities as well as his executive acumen and skills at being a unifyer.

Also, Barack Obama is the author of 2 best selling books, which has earned him millions and he writes his own speeches, one which electrified the nation 4 years ago. His most recent speech was seen by over 40 million households, beating the viewership of the opening Olympic Ceremony or American Idol. Further, his convention speech was done in front of 85,000 citizens; the largest live audience in the history of American politics.

Beyond that, Barack Obama was endorsed by the largest array of newspapers editorial boards, national politicians, political interest groups, than any other primary candidate to ever run. In other words, he comes to us highly recommended.


To conclude, Barack Obama is a natural statesmen and leader with the type of executive experience that counts; see above. The fact that he was able to gather 200,000 Germans while many were carrying American flags, to come to see him speak is a testament and a preview of his potential to rally our allies to our side. Obama will be in a strong position once elected in dealing with countries who may be of threat to us....because he is the person best suited to unify nations that will stand with us against such threats. Neither John McCain nor his Vice President even come close. period.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. #1 Yes, he is just as unqualified as she is. #2 running a presidential campaign is a huge endeavor
and his beating Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and their political machine is all the proof anyone can ask for that the guy knows how to get things done.


Also Palin is dumb as a bag of rocks


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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. Jindal is insane and Obama has SHOWN us how he would lead just with this campaign...
I wish more people in the MSM would acknowledge the governing ability we have witnessed right before our very own eyes since Obama started running.

We witnessed him literally sprint from the back of the presidential politics bus and become our nominee. He took on one of the biggest political power machines of our time in the form of the Clintons'. He dealt with scandals that conventional wisdom would think would be political deal breakers... such as the Wright BS, the flood of rumors about his heritage and religion, the Rezko nonsense... just to name a few... and still managed to gracefully brave through the storm of negative media that was thrown at him day in and day out. His campaign remained solid throughout. His campaign staff never needed a shake up. He ran and continues to run as tight a ship as you can have with, all the way from the upper echelons of his campaign advisors down to the grass roots army that has impressive presence in every single United State.

Even if one disregards his near 12 years experience in legislating, his abundant experience and knowledge in constitutional law or all the other examples of him illustrating an ability to bring people together to take on problems... the experience we saw him gain right before our eyes running one of the most impressive campaigns in history should be enough to prove that Obama is no friggin' joke.
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