To all you DU Gooders telling us to lay off Palin....

[Hokie]

I am almost a charter member of DU (since 2001) and I contribute every year. I think Palin is fair game. If you want to watch McCain and Palin strut around for 8 years be my guest. Playing nice gave us 8 years of Bush and Cheney. I am not sure what it will take for take for some of you masochists to figure that out. If you don't want to join in then fine but don't you dare call me a Repuke troll. End of Message....

[ColbertWatcher]

1. Take a look at this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3889686&mesg_id=3889686

[pnwmom]

3. Did you know that Downs syndrome can result in intrauterine growth retardation

and decreased amniotic fluids?

This meme isn't going to get us anywhere, except to make us look as bad as the freepers.

[cali]

2. sorry, telling people that the "baby" story is stupid and counter-productive

not to mention pure speculation with NO evidence at all, is not the same as telling people to lay off Palin. I'm all for attacking Palin as the Buchanan clone extremist she is, but I'm convinced that the baby crap is monumentally stupid. And I don't care for stupid.

[cliffordu]

35. What Cali said.

[musicblind]

42. Right on Cali

[DrZeeLit]

49. Exactly. The baby stuff is petty and will completely backfire. Go after credentials... or lack

[Virginia Dare]

53. Smears like this are rarely counter productive unfortunately..

the Rovian "black baby" story worked like a charm down in South Carolina. The Swift Boat story was a rousing success. The ironic thing is, this kind of story will probably only hurt them in the very base of right wing fundie conservative circles that they are so desperately trying to shore up with her pick.

[Waiting For Everyman]

4. Yup, The Watergate story was stupid for a year too.

[cali]

10. worst comparison yet. and completely inaccurate.

do you just not know enough about Palin to cogently attack her on her nutbar politics? Consider educating yourself.

[Waiting For Everyman]

14. And you're who, again?

Did I say it was a comparison? I said both stories were called "stupid". Read the WaPo archives, if you don't know that.

You can attack her on whatever you like. And so can I.

[mitchum]

21. Nixon didn't go down for his politics, but for his criminality...

if Palin is lying about the baby (and she is),then she is guilty of insurance fraud

[TexasObserver]

36. You're exactly right. Watergate happened DURING the campaign.

Remember the RNC cover stories?

Third rate burglary.

Some anti commie Cubans who feared McGovern was dealing with Castro.

It took a YEAR to get traction.

All the naysayers can wail like professional mourners, but their wailing isn't going to stop one person from pursuing this story. The important thing to remember about naysayers is this: They cannot stop themselves from chiding. It is who they are, and their compulsion to wag their finger knows no limitations. You might as well tell them to stop breathing as to stop whining.

[mitchum]

44. You make a very good point; naysayers have a pathological need to chide...they are sick

[liberal N proud]

5. We have to attack her

I agree playing nice has been the Democratic stand far too long. We have to get in the mud with the pigs to beat them.

[WeDidIt]

6. I'm all for attacking her where deserved

I'm opposed to going down the LArry Sinclair, Muslim, Birth certificate bullshit road.

We look like Freepers when we do that shit.

Somebody can take that shit to their own blog and be as effective, if not moreso, than putting it up here.

[dddem]

7. I would prefer to attack her politics and her political decisions,

as well as McCain's. I have always had a problem with dragging personal issues into a campaign, so it would be unfair of me approve of it when it's "the other guy". Fair is fair. i understand that it happens, and why it happens, I would just rather not focus on it, it distracts from the issues. But that's just me.
Peace.

[muffin1]

8. What you said.

SHE made wombs a topic for discussion. SHE'S playing the "I have higher morals than you do" game. If she "pulled a Bree", I say let it be known.

[RagAss]

9. Amen...... I was outcast in my communuty for calling Colin Powell a liar

when he went before the UN with cartoons to justify a made up war.

IN WILL NEVER HOLD MY TONGUE AGAIN FOR ANYONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Liberal Dose]

11. Sarah Palin is a liar. Babygate is yet another example of how far she is willing to go in order to

cover up a lie. This story needs to be discussed.

[Enrique]

12. lol at "DU Gooders"

but speaking for myself, not wanting to attack her isn't to be nice, but because I think it will hurt us. Obama recently said "I don't intend to lose", and I think that's why he won't attack her.

[muffin1]

13. Obama is right, HE shouldn't attack her.

I'm not running for prez, and I never made such a promise. I want her exposed for the lying monster she is.:D

[Desertrose]

29. "We" are not Obama, nor the Dem party..."we" are a message board

and as such...who the hell really listens to us?

Want to keep playing nice and let the "margin of error" get eaten up so the election can be stolen this year too?

I think DU is the perfect place to dig this up...let some other media outlets run with it too. Thats what the hell the *underground* is for- going after stuff that isn't mainstream!

You think the other side gives a rats ass what "we" think about them? Sometimes going after the truth ain't pretty, but I for one have had enough of lying politicians getting away with all the crap they do. Search for the facts....thats the best we can do.

Its not about the daughter or the baby...its about the LIES that a person holding public office is telling. Doesn't that piss you off just a little bit? Why should we let that go? Doesn't anyone remember what integrity is all about?

[seabeyond]

15. she has so few assets, one she is running on is "real mom". seems to me she

brought this into the campaign herself

[arendt]

16. Attack McCain for choosing her. She's a zero. Don't elevate her. DONT FEED THE TROLL.

Aattack McCain for picking someone with no experience.
Attack McCain for picking someone up to her eyeballs with Big Oil.
Attack McCain for pandering to the fundies and gun nuts and anti-enviro whackos.
Attack McCain's penchant for beauty queens.
Attack McCain's assault on women's rights.
Attack McCain for letting her drag her special needs kid along on the campaign.

But don't attack Palin directly. She's a troll.

arendt

[HughMoran]

17. That's a better strategy IMHO

McPOW is the candidate - HE made JUDGEMENT an issue.

This selection shows POOR JUDGEMENT.

[DangerousRhythm]

18. ABSOLUTELY right. This Babygate thing is damned stupid and shortsighted, like his VP pick.

It's an instant lose for us and it'd backfire across the damned nation. Bad, bad idea.

[Pamela Troy]

19. Attack her on the issues. Not through her teenaged daughter.

Can you do that?

[nolabels]

30. In an attempt to trudge through more incredulous stories this does one also seems ripe

The details are only important to illustrate the contempt. Most crooks that are locked up have better stories but for some reason we should give a free pass to those who would like to run our government. Sorry have seen too many liars

[Pamela Troy]

31. Is actually attacking Palin on the issues too hard for you?

[nolabels]

34. No, not even but it doesn't sell copy in our tabloid media culture

Yea, if there was just debate about policy and governance the republican party would be fossil remains mostly. The problem you must live in the real world where gossip is king and things that put food on the table are relegated to ancillary.

The other thing is republicans are the one's who want to drag candidates family and social lives into the campaigns but time and time again we see they themselves are not the shiny examples they purport.

Yea, it's the duplicity, the hypocrisy, the contempt but more than anything it's that they believe it is their business to get into my business and your business, then at same time have the gall to tell everybody that it don't matter cause it's how their so called god said it should be.

[Pamela Troy]

37. Spare us the old "We don't WANT to do this but we HAVE to" crap.

It's like watching someone unzip their fly and piss into a swimming pool, while opening their eyes wide and saying, "but everyone ELSE is doing it..."

[nolabels]

40. If you did not want the answer you should not of asked the question

Pretty sure i am not too much of a follower, but just to be sure i haven't been swimming in years so to pee in someone else's pool is definitely out of the realm of questions i could elaborate on :shrug:

[Pamela Troy]

41. Oh, I got the answer to my question, and it was plainly "yes."

[smiley_glad_hands]

20. Obama will never take this line of attack even if it is true.

I'm sure he will condemn any attacks that take this approach.

That being said, keep digging. lolz

[mitchum]

22. No quarter

[Pamela Troy]

38. Oh God. ANOTHER Clint Eastwood wannabe.

In fact, by wallowing around in this crap, you're just channelling Karl Rove as played by John Fiedler.

[mitchum]

43. Wow...I knew that he was old, but I had no idea that he was old enough to coin a phrase...

from such a long time ago.
And speaking of wannabes...How are the towers of Illium, Pamelea dear?

[Pamela Troy]

45. THAT'S all you can muster? Some form of the sentence, "You're OWULLLLLD?"

Are you implying my last name is just some silly affectation I adopted? What's your point?

[mitchum]

46. You're half right...

wrong about the first part; nothing about "You're OWULLLLLD?" It was merely a way to snarkily point out that the cooncept of "no quarter" is much older than some actor who plays tough guys in movies.

You are right about the econd part.

There really is nothing else I can muster. You appear to be one of those naysayers with a pathological need to chide and scold. I can do nothing about that type of sickness.

[Pamela Troy]

47. "No Quarter" is traditionally associated with some warrior raising

a sword and shouting it before descending upon the enemy lines. Using it as an excuse for attacking a political candidate through their kid is pretty contemptible.

The name "Troy" is "affectation" in my family that goes back several centuries. You've never heard of it before as a surname?

[mitchum]

48. I'm attacking no kid; I'm attacking a political candidate guilty of fraud...

it is no fault of mine that her criminal actions involve her child. Palin made that decision.

[Pamela Troy]

50. You're helping spread the rumor that her teenaged daughter had a baby out of wedlock.

Yes, you are attacking a kid. And yes, when you engage in that crap that IS your fault.

How can you stand using the same rationalizations Freepers and Malkinites used for attacking Graeme Frost?

[Patiod]

23. But we label her a MORON at our own peril

Because then if she puts two sentences together at a debate, all of a sudden she's a Rhoades Scholar.

And it doesn't help anyway, because as someone pointed out in an earlier thread, the US doesn't care if their leaders are dumbasses.

But I say Troopergate and the Gramma thing are fair game here on the internets.

[ClarkUSA]

24. I say we ignore the Palin PC Police

I have to ask why they want to "protect" Palin against our discussing her multitude of character and
situational defects.

[trthnd4jstc]

25. She should not have chosen to be VP. I doubt she even sought even minded counsel on her decision.

She and Sen. McSame must be prevented by all ethical means possible to becoming the VP and Pres. This is life and death, and the Republican way is killing the rest of us. She chose to be VP a foolish decision, but that is why she should have sought more thorough counsel amongst her peers. She obviously did not think about this deeply enough, and from seeing and hearing her speak, she does not seem to have near as much upstairs as our VP choice. It will be fun to see the VP debates. I hope there are at least 5. That should convince most of the independents, and a third of the Republicans what a poor choice she is for VP.

We have to put her and Sen. McSame under scrutiny, and criticism. We must not lose the presidency to this Criminal, Fascist Party.

[TahitiNut]

26. Won't somebody please rescue Poor Nell from the railroad tracks???

She's helpless!!

:hide:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. who is asking you to lay off palin? attack her. just dont be sexist about it

attack her in the same ways you would any man in politics

she is a revolting antigay, antichoice, anti environment, pro drilling asshole

she is so right wing she makes mccain look like chavez

why would you have to lay off her?

[PeaceNikki]

28. No. Attack her HARD on the issues, there are PLENTY of those

That can easily be done without resorting to using her parenting skills or some standards that are different for candidates who are men or some "juicy gossip" that's floating around.

[liberalpress]

32. We are confronted with

an anti-choice, ant-environment, anti-gay, pro-war, pro-gun and all we choose to talk about is wethr or not she faked her baby,

Were are Republicans

[PeaceNikki]

33. Exactly.

And those who want to focus on the ISSUES of her anti-choice, ant-environment, anti-gay, pro-war, pro-gun views are accused of being freepers and protecting her.

It's a world gone mad.

[goletian]

39. all im sayin is, focusing on mccain is the path of least resistance. mcbush is the obvious answer

[Hokie]

51. OK, I am nice guy. No apologies are necessary.

Any of you who buy this cooked up she is pregnant now story are pretty darn gullible. McCain's scrambled this weekend as to how to handle this. This is step one of a "graceful exit" for Mrs. Palin.

[TheKentuckian]

52. Never, ever stop pressing on the real issues

nor fail to press on weaknesses as they present themselves.

Sexism has nothing to do with it, men are hit where it will hurt them. Despite any aspirations or hope otherwise, in politics a woman has some weaknesses that are different than a man's and vise versa. Though, on this one I'd tend to say a hardcore theocrat father would be getting blasted too. Certainly, not on the baby switch thing but as it played out, I think it would certainly draw some fire.

This episode if framed correctly could be a great win for birth control, sex education, and maybe choice. If my central focus was women's issues then I'd certainly start exploring thoughts in that direction. Even Obama, he has a strong woman, was raised by strong women, and has two daughters that make him light up. This can be used for a much higher purposes, to reframe these wedge issues and to lay out a vision of why education and prevention focus is so crucial. Crucial to giving our children girls and boys the best road to being women and men that live up to their fullest potentials. To having them grow into parents that have aquired the wisdom, perspective, and resources to give that next generation a more sound foundation.
That we fail due to lack of knowledge, we suffer from incomplete understanding. How we can prevent abortions from even being considered , much less occurring. How we can break the cycles of dependency and poverty. How there are wonderful people that are grandparents in their 30's but how a cycle is shown in microcosm and ask is this what we want as a society. Is this how we pass on experience and build foundations best for the future?

There is a strong powerful and important argument for progressive policies and perspective here. After, the silly season a real message and a call for America to once again put it's future on the front burner and making a move to pragmatic new policies that use common sense and facts, rather than opinion to address a growing problem. Kids are falling through the cracks over a period of generations and we are allowing it by not opening our eyes to the conditions on the ground.