Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Man the Lifeboats - She's Goin' Down

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:16 PM
Original message
Man the Lifeboats - She's Goin' Down
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 11:20 PM by NanceGreggs
From the minute John McCain won the nomination of his party, I knew that before the campaign had run its course, he would commit political suicide.

All the signs were there – the hair-trigger temper, the obvious frustration that comes with an inability to recall facts, the flashes of anger when being challenged on previous positions (or, worse yet, the obviously politically-motivated changes in those positions), the fury unleashed when being alluded to as a kept man who married for money rather than make his own way in the world.

From the beginning, we all prepared ourselves for the moment – some cringingly and others anxiously – when John McCain’s famous temper would hit the boil-over point and manifest itself in a meltdown of mammoth proportions, rendering him as unelectable as Charles Manson, O.J Simpson and Scott Peterson, combined.

What I never expected was that Johnny would get his gun and – deliberately and with no thought aforethought – turn it on himself and blow his brains out on the national stage.

In the time it took to say, “And my running mate is …,” the USS McCain crashed into the iceberg and started taking on water through the hidden-but-deadly gash below the surface.

Of course, the right-wing punditidiocy tried to plaster smiles on their collective egg-encrusted faces immediately, urging passengers to ignore the flooding in the hold and stay positive while singing “Nearer My God to Thee”.

Within minutes, the spinmeisters were busy at their craft, attempting to fashion a silk purse out of the nomination of a woman with little experience, and even less substance – a woman who, despite her good looks and perkiness, is still nothing more than a sow’s ear, and a decidedly deaf ear at that.

“But, but, but …,” sputter the talking heads, insisting that Goodie Sarah will bring in the Fundie vote, the family values vote – and, of course, that all important wimmins vote.

And the fact is, she won’t.

For every alleged God-fearing Christian who sees Ms Palin as the saving grace that makes a ticket that includes a pro-choice/anti-choice waffler like McCain palatable, there are two who have come to recognize pandering when they see it. They remember the promises of one G.W. Bush to overturn Roe v Wade and amend the Constitution to prohibit gay marriage – along with remembering that those promises were only held out at election time, and never came anywhere close to being kept.

For every voter who sees Pretty Sarah as embodying traditional Family Values, there are four who wonder why a mother of five, including a special-needs infant, is more than willing to leave her children behind while she pursues not a 9-to-5 job, or even a demanding career, but a position that will mean all but abandoning the rearing of those children to someone else.

Of course them wimmins voters are just dyin’ to see one of their own elected to high office, and obviously don’t care who that woman is, or what she stands for – because as any smart-as-a-bag-of-nails GOP operative will tell you, all cats are grey in the dark, and one candidate with a vagina is the same as another.

While counting on all of the aforementioned voters that Ms Congeniality was destined to bring into the fold, it seems apparent that no one bothered counting those who would just as quickly leave – those who have wondered whether McCain still has the mental capacity to make sound decisions, those who are truly concerned about having a steady and experienced hand at the helm as the country navigates treacherous waters, those who are cognizant of the Republican candidate’s questionable health and hoped to see a VP pick who could take over the reins of power without skipping a beat.

Needless to say, those voters are heading for the nearest lifeboat, along with those who are aware of the investigatory question marks that already surround Ms Palin’s short-but-scandal-ridden political career and realize that they’re probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg that will inevitably take them down.

The sad part of it is that I don’t think Johnny Mac meant to end it all this way. I suspect he was handed a loaded gun, assured by his advisors that it was full of blanks – noisy enough to get the attention of those who have already lost interest in a lack-luster campaign, but certainly not fatal. And those were probably the last words poor Johnny heard before he pulled the trigger.

As I’ve listened to the Republican cheerleaders over the past twenty-four hours, extolling the virtues of a game-changing nominee and the maverick instincts of the man who chose her, I can’t help but be reminded of the same sorry rhetoric being trotted out when Harriet Miers was suddenly being touted as the most brilliantly qualified SCOTUS pick since the dawn of the Republic.

Well, we all know how that story ended. And I’ve no doubt that Ms Palin’s vice-presidency bid will end the same way – as an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question that only the most picayune politicos will remember a year from now.

Sadly for the GOP, knowing that answer might get you a piece of pie in a board game, but it won't win an election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nail, meet hammer.
Bang.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
69. Nail meet hammer & thumb!
I have to play devil's advocate here.
It is human nature to judge others by ourselves............The posters here are in the majority empathetic, kind, caring, human beings, a cut above some I have encountered out there in the street. AND a lot more sophisticated than the average Joe walking the street, getting their information from the media. But No match for Macievellian EVIL!
I began as a very idealistic, giving, high minded, niave person...life's trials, landed me as a divorced Mother of 2 painting murals for very rich people in their homes, for one to 4 weeks..............You become a fixture, a "fly on the wall", and are privy to conversations you would not normally overhear. I painted equine art for about 10 years, going eyeball to eyeball with those richest old families,( Harrimans Rockefellers, Whitneys...) in Saratoga, Palm Beach etc. I could see then,the emptiness in their eyes, and concluded that black men were more humanitarian, wise..........made so by the crucible of slavery and discrimination. Bush & McCain would not have survived being slaves with their tempers and sense of entitlement.
I lived in a racially mixed inner city nighborhood for 20 years, with blacks, racist Irish Catholic, and Liberal white Professionals, ( 2 of them on the Warren Commission, one conducted his own independant investigation into the murder of JFK.) neighbors. I have also bartended, delivered Dominos Pizza, cleaned houses, and gone back to college with a bunch of shallow, rather untalented, Gen Xers.To survive all this I have had to develop the ability to intuitively read people's, psychy's and never ASS - U- ME anything.
That said...........DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE,...............
I am very alarmed at the choice of Palin. I see the hand of Rove behind it, NOT McCain's choice at all. Although I have laughed at the joke, my blood is running cold. Hasn't Bushco under the cover of laughs and sneers about their incompetence, achieved all their cynical goals VERY SUCCESSFULLY? Isn't he still trying to tie us up into his policies for years to come? Is the countdown to war with Iran proceeding, while we are wonderstruck by the fireworks and fiery orations last week? I watched the campaigns stumping in Pa & Ohio yesterday, and was disturbed to see MCCain Palin get a much more enthusiastic crowd reception than Obama Biden. In spite of the youth movement for Obama, there are lots of low information, not the brightest bulbs, who have been taught to idolize celebrities, to alleviate the dreary monotony of their dumb job lives, and LACK OF HOPE FOR THE FUTURE. This "apparently" wholesome beauty queen mom, has great appeal to those who can't perceive her back story, which has been discovered here in the last 36 hours. SHe's Repug, not going to be Edwardsed by the media!
Do not relax your efforts to educate the public, & elect Obama/Biden.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #69
99. I do believe she's brought hope to the hopeless, temporarily.
My measure is watching my conservative parents. They were going to vote for McCain only because Obama was "worse", but now they have a new shiny object dangling in front of their eyes in Mrs. Palin. I think they are going to watch her sink McCain's campaign in the end--but for now they are enjoying a big dose of HOPE. And we all know how intoxicating that can be.

The big crowd reactions are coming from that hope, and the novelty of something new. I don't think it will last, especially as she puts her foot in her mouth as often as McCain is doing. Her campaign can't be better than his--it's being run by the same fools.

Let's just wait and see how things are coming down several weeks from now. The newness will wear off and the worry will begin to set in again. Meanwhile the Obama camp is not going to just sit on its hands. They are going to be working to out-maneuver the opposition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
132. Republicans run good campaigns. It's about all they do well. Obama has shown that
Democrats are also capable. It just isn't as natural for us.

Generally, we govern well, but campaign less so.

I agree that the Obama campaign won't be as complacent as the OP apparently is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #69
153. Agree with you completely.
I'm worried. After 8 yrs of Bushco, I don't put anything past this lot. This stinks of Rove through and through.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #69
174. Very thought-provoking post. We should not take this woman lightly.
I agree that Rove and Big Oil are behind this. One should NEVER underestimate one's enemy, no matter how weak they may appear at a given moment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #69
186. equine art?
You painted for the Whitneys? Birdstone?

Anyone who isn't paranoid after 7+ years of Bush/Cheney/Rove either isn't paying attention or just plain doesn't care. That said, the Palin choice is an obvious, massive fuck-up. The MSM will try to look the other way. Our job is to make that more difficult.

Republican Plan B will be a small RETALIATORY attack on Iran after a few of our troops are killed with Iranian supplied weapons. Sorry, an unpatriotic slip from my keyboard...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I love your optimism, but I remember a VP that could not spell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. And I remember when a video game called "Pong" ...
... was all the rage.

Don't confuse then with now - which is precisely the mistake the GOP are making even as we speak.

The voter who thought 'family values' was all-important when he still had medical insurance, a good job, and a substantial savings account is not seeing things in quite the same way as the foreclosure notice is nailed to his front door.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
62. Pong still rules.
I'm just sayin. :)

Great post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
43. We have a Preesident that can't spell
She is Dan Quayle ans Dubya mixed together.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Pretty much says it all, yup, yup, yup. Was it Lindsay Graham's great advice
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. And then Black says she'll learn from the master who will live at least 4 more years
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Proving the campaign of ignorance is also stupid..a bunch of "whinners"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
61. I think it is always good to be proactive -
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 05:31 AM by ksimons
Doing a little research and there are some things that the GOP are no doubt going to swing from behind their back at Dems as they get overconfident and start thinking this won't be so difficult. The GOP is devious, and I'm sure they are holding a bunch of stuff for October...

I think they want to let everyone pounce on her as an unworldly dimwit and then pull a 'Paris Hilton energy solution' moment to knock folks down. For instance, people have been saying 'hey, she has no worldly experience - has the beauty queen ever even left the country?'...

well...

GOVERNOR PALIN VISITS ALASKA TROOPS OVERSEAS

I'm proud of our Alaska troops everywhere they serve, and I also support our brave troops in war zones and in military hospitals. Hats off to Governor Sarah Palin for visiting our Alaska military in Kuwait, and our wounded soldiers in the Landstul Hospital in Germany! The photo shows our governor greeting Alaskans in Kuwait.

No doubt they'll pull that Hospital visit over Obama's head. The Dems just need to be preparing for all possible plans. I hope they peruse these boards or someone sends them info regularly just as help to them.



Sorry forgot the link
http://alaskadistrict31.blogspot.com/search?q=palin

*From 2007

she's pro-senior, she's nominated a judge to their Supreme Court - yadda yadda - they will not fail to use all of these details... ie. Has Obama nominated a Supreme Court Justice? Well, why not? She has. That Supreme Court nomination process will be a big part of the next administration... etc. I only say this because some of the talking heads supporting Obama were dropping the ball against folks across the aisle, and they need to get their poop together!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
160. never mind that she had to procure her first ever passport
to make that trip. now, i still don't have a passport, but i'm not running for the second highest office in the land. she shouldn't be either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Its about judgment, and the nerves of having a motto "country first"......
when it reality, John McCain said "Me First, never mind the rest!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
112. Her motto is "Jesus First"
Fuck. That.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #112
123. True Dat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #112
173. Amen!
Screw that!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Abacus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sanest post in the last 36 hours
Thanks and rec!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. At the time of the last presidential election, John Edwards was popular...
...and Dick Cheney was one of the most unpopular VPs in American history.

2004 didn't turn out well.

We have to keep doing things to help Obama win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Obama & Biden
are no Kerry/Edwards and neither is their campaign. They both had an authenticity problem.

But we should, and will, continue to fight our asses off to win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well said, Nance
methinks the talk of postponing the convention in Minneapolis because of the storm at the other end of the Mississippi might have more to do with somebody saying "uh, wait a minute, let's think about this..." than any sort of empathy, sensitivity, or altruism. Now they have to figure out a graceful exit.

Johhny, you got your flabby old man-tit in the wringer now, dontcha?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
66. or could be a chance to take McCain away from the podium, which he sucks at...
...and put him in some scenes wearing fatigues with his right-hand girl, packing sandbags, lifting babies from boats, and generally showing a big hands-on show for the media. Then, he'll fly out to the end of the convention for his appearance, say 'sorry I'm not as prepared with a speech as I had hoped, but I was helping drowning children and puppies and pulling the elderly from their wheelchairs to safety. I know, I know... I am supposed to be in a wheelchair myself, according to the Democrats, but what can I say - and well, let me tell you a story about some valliant Americans I met during the hurricane... etc

They are MASTERS at this - their convention is all 'low budget' anyway - so they don't have much to sell visually, but who could have paid to create a storm conquering moment except Steven Spielberg? I think Obama & Biden should be heading down there as well - to help out, or risk looking like the high-and-dry elitists up north. This is how it is done by the big boys, no?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
183. You are presenting a scary and very possible
scenario. They could easily think of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Impressive and right on the mark, as usual.
Thanks, Nance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. what you said, nance, what you said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nancy, Nancy, Nancy. You are brilliant!!
This was an insightful, but hilariously funny read. I'm laughing so hard right now. Thank you!

What I never expected was that Johnny would get his gun and – deliberately and with no thought aforethought – turn it on himself and blow his brains out on the national stage.

:rofl:

Of course them wimmins voters are just dyin’ to see one of their own elected to high office, and obviously don’t care who that woman is, or what she stands for – because as any smart-as-a-bag-of-nails GOP operative will tell you, all cats are grey in the dark, and one candidate with a vagina is the same as another.

:rofl::rofl:

The sad part of it is that I don’t think Johnny Mac meant to end it all this way. I suspect he was handed a loaded gun, assured by his advisors that it was full of blanks – noisy enough to get the attention of those who have already lost interest in a lack-luster campaign, but certainly not fatal. And those were probably the last words poor Johnny heard before he pulled the trigger.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: (you're killing me . . .)

A Washington insider's take . . .

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/country_first_m/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks for posting that link ...
... it's a GREAT read!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
75. After reading the comments to the linked article. . . . . .
. . . . I think there is far more political danger from Palin than the Obama campaign may perceive. As the comment writers noted, there are enough superficial comparisons between Obama and Palin that put Palin on the plus side. And if anyone thinks this ISN'T a race between Obama and Palin, they're missing the boat.

I think that's one reason why the issue of Palin's "motherhood" has gripped so many here on DU. It's a point where she is personally VERY vulnerable. And it is one of the areas where she is going to be presented as attractive to the non-informed, gut-voting electorate. They don't vote with their brains -- and we've seen enough of them do that over the years -- and McCain or his handlers have selected someone who will appeal on all the emotional levels to those voters.

I've said it before and I'll say it again and I'll hope to hell I don't have to drag out my I.T.Y.S. rubber stamp after the election. The Democratic Party put ideals ahead of practicality when they didn't look at how best to defeat the pukes in November '08. Let the people speak! We'll choose our own nominee! Yay! Democracy works! So we ended up with an ugly, bitter, and very expensive primary campaign that sapped a lot of people's energy and left that whole imaginary bloc of "wimmen voters" up for grabs -- if not in actuality then at least in a perception that could be enhanced by the pukes and spread by the MSM.

The DNC, under Howard Dean's leadership, dropped the ball big time. There should have been a deal brokered between the Obama and Clinton teams months and months and months ago, either to have a joint ticket -- and it really didn't matter who was "on top" because it could have been politically rationalized either way -- that would have effectively countered virtually ANYTHING the pukes could have put up, or to establish some kind of working relationship that would hold the party together and avoid any Achilles heels. It didn't happen, and that left the whole PUMA thing (which I don't get because I must have missed something along the way) as a vulnerability instead of a strength.

Even if the Hillary supporters do come on board -- and I fully expect 99% of them will do so -- for the Obama/Biden team, the disaffection that lingered right up until Hillary's convention speech was a vulnerability. It left a wound open for the Palin infection to invade. Had Hillary been on the ticket, or had her reconciliation with Obama been effected months ago, we'd have no Sarah Palin to fight. Palin has ONLY been selected as a political move.

Obama could have selected Janet Napolitano or Kathleen Sibelius as his running mate and blunted some of the Palin effect, but neither of them has the foreign policy experience that was the political perception of Obama's weakness. Going up against Mr. Foreign Policy :sarcasm:, Obama had to add that to his ticket. Most governors aren't going to have it. Biden was a good choice; I'm not knocking him. But because neither Obama nor Biden has prior "executive" experience, that was another liability. Remember, JFK was the last president elected directly from the Senate. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and boooosh all ran as governors.

I said in early 2004, and I'll reiterate it once again, that Kerry needed to select his running mate early rather than late and run against the established boooosh/cheeeeney team from the beginning. Edwards was personable and would have been a perfect VP-to-P trainee at least in a political sense. Instead, they waited until late, they didn't campaign well together, and the race ended up being close enough to steal.

When Howard Dean took over as chair of the DNC, I thought surely he would see these problems. They were problems that could oh so easily be resolved with sharp political maneuvering. And by 2007, when the war was going badly, the economy was tanking, Katrina had soured everyone on boooosh (and McCain), the prospect for a Democratic victory in '08 seemed a piece of cake.

It's not that Democrats have lousy policies or lousy candidates or lousy campaigns. What they lack is long-term political vision.

For example: This thing with Gustav ought to be milked for all it's worth. Call me ghoulish, but there's no turning back a hurricane and both Obama and Biden, as able-bodied men, ought to be down there NOW, YESTERDAY, lending a hand wherever they can. Not munching on sweet corn in Ohio! Don't they remember John McCain's Katrina birthday of 2005????!!!! Forget the policy wonking for a while. Get out there and get some photo ops on the levees, while McCain and his melanoma shelter from the sun and Palin trots around in her high heels with her amah and infant shuffling along behind. Let's see how Miss Wasilla, Miss Alaska runner-up, Miss Congeniality, fares in the heat and humidity of Louisiana in early September.

Right now the game is politics, not governing. Save the policy speeches for after the inauguration. Don't put much stock in the debates to sway undecided voters -- or switch committed ones. Play the game to win, not by the ideal rules, the theoretical rules, the mathematical model rules, but by the ground rules.

Otherwise, we'll lose.



Tansy Gold
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #75
82. Oh get over it !!!!

Why don't you go pining for Bill Bradley in 2000 or Paul Tsongas in 1990. The prize for #2 is ABSOLUETLY NOTHING!!! If Hillary was so interested in a compromise, she would not have treated Obama like a chump and resorted to race baiting. If she had the organization skill, there is no way they would have burned through all that money and busted her lead.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #82
109. Look, I'm not "pining" for anyone
I'm quite happy with Obama. I'm just exploring the possible political implications from my point of view. Zat okay wit you?

Guess not.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaptJasHook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #75
113. I disagree with some of your suppostions, however,
I do agree with your emphasis on the ground game. Right now we are in an incredibly important and depressingly close election, we need to prioritize winning above governing right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #75
146. You can't be serious.
Howard Dean has rebuilt the party from the ground up in a phenomenally short time, and the Obama people have run one of the most brilliant campaigns in history. Hillary clung to a rotten old party structure and her people ran one of the most incompetent campaigns in history. And you are saying, because McCain has chosen a laughable running mate, that the Dems have been all wrong, and Hillary should have been brought on board no matter what? What on earth are you talking about?

What would it take to make you happy? Short of a miracle, things could not possibly be going better for us. What the hell are you whining about?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
154. Nope.
McCain is a Senator too. And this is going to be about McCain's (lack of) judgment in this pick. There is plenty of time to pick apart the superficial comparisons between their V.P. candidate and our Presidential candidate. Most will ultimately see that she will Palin-comparison. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #75
155. Also, most of the comments were dominated by one poster... not exactly...
representative of the population at large.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
80. Unfortunately, I stopped to read this thread while taking a break from Lakoff's
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 09:19 AM by Jackpine Radical
recent book, The Political Mind, in which he talks about how the Republicans build frames & narratives around their people. Shrub riding in on a carpet of redemption from his earlier life as a wastrel, for example.

He did a whole chapter on Anna Nicole and the competing narrative frames at play in the background that accounted for how she captivated the public imagination.

After my morning dose of Lakoff, I've been thinking about the Palin thing in the context of narrative frames (hell, call them archetypes if you're an old Jungian like one unnamed, decrepit shrink on this board). The issue is not going to boil down to the truth about McBoobs. It's gonna sink or swim on the basis of the narrative they spin around her, and I expect that they already have that one ready. It'll be something like
1) Submissive helper role (Good Stepford Wife, a woman the Fundies can approve of)
2) Religious fanatic
3) McBimbo/MILF (Gad, the bad things I learn hanging out on this board)--sublimated, subliminal sexuality slyly supporting Stupid's studliness (Like Bush & his codpiece-enhanced flyboy suit)
etc.

They're selling a script, a story. Our reality-based nitpicking about qualifications doesn't matter. If we want to win, we need to fight this with our own coherent, archetypally-rooted counter-story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #80
94. Jackpine...as much as I enjoy reading Nance's posts
I think you are right on the mark on this one. I assume you're the "decrepit shrink"? I don't remember. Sorry!

Anyway...I tend to think in Jungian (archetypal) terms, too. If you're a therapist you know that stories are very powerful. Telling your client the relevant stories or giving them metaphors at crucial times is essential to the healing process. No, McSame didn't blow his brains out. Yes, it's about the narrative.

To pick one of your points, and to use an oxymoron, there's a raging subliminal sexuality in the Repub mindset. That's because they can't openly express what's a normal drive that we all have.

Again, stories are powerful. Myths are psychologically "true". I think McSame's pick is much more dangerous than most people can imagine.

* * * *

P.S. What's "MILF"? Just can't retrieve that.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #94
101. Yes, I think she's very dangerous.
I expanded my thoughts on the topic here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6845674&mesg_id=6845674

MILF="Mother I'd like to ...." I don't know its origin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #101
150. I also think she's dangerous. Repubs turn faults into virtues by creative framing.
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 01:51 PM by Straight Shooter
When his choice of VP was announced, I said it was deviously strategic. Perhaps it's strategically devious. Either way, my guts churn. Leave it to the Repubs to vote for that ticket simply because it has a woman's name, as a way of thumbing their noses at the Democrats.

I don't know. This has got to be the most bizarre election, ever. Maybe we are headed toward the apocalypse. :shrug:

edit typo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaptJasHook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #80
111. How do you summarize the narrative frame of Obama/Biden?
Is it powerful enough?
Would you suggest another, or an enhancement?

Dead on by the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #111
125. I think Obama has a natural genius for framing.
I think that's what put him where he is.

I'm a kindergartener in the framing business.I just don't know enough at this point to comment usefully on what we're doing, nor do I really think I've accurately anticipated what the Roveians are planning for Palin. Especially the latter. Except that I predict that the general theme will be Palin playing Hero's Helper to the McCain "heroic Strict Father" archetype.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #125
178. The strict father archtype is the heart of the repuke/fundie narrative.
That will be very important to counter...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #80
117. Don't our candidates have their own narratives?
Pretty damn good ones?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #117
133. I think Obama has a
wonderful narrative. Unfortunately it's too damn cosmopolitan for the nationalistic types who are suspicious of anything that isn't 100% American as apple pie. Never mind that we all have immigrants in our family history. That was then. This is now.

I don't find Sarah Palin's story that interesting. I live in a community that has 17,000 people. I know what the local politicians do and I wouldn't call it high level executive experience. Comparing Palin's work as mayor of a small town to Obama's work in Chicago or the IL State Senate is ludicrous. But that's where they are going with this and on some level it seems to be working.

Heaven help us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #80
171. Lakoff shoud be like a god to the Dems. He has so much to teach about reframing
the issues. That is what the repukes have done for at least a decade. The Dems have still not learned what Lakoff has to offer...That is why there are still people out there who believe the repukes and vote against their own best interests..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
161. good questions in that article
i hope to see her fumble through each one. unfortunately, if there's one thing i doubt more than her ability to answer those questions, it's that the msm will present them to her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Nance, you have well and truly outdone yourself this time. Touche.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Spot On.
I've been involved politically for forty years ... from local non-partisan candidacies to presidential campaigns. One starts to develop an instinct about things after that length of time.

I've had the same feelings about McCain ... then the moment I saw and heard this Sarah Palin person I had the gut feeling that there was something rather odd and twisted coming down.

There is a self-destructive aura around the McCain campaign, what finally puts the final nail in its coffin we will probably see sooner rather than later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GrizzlyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. A withering assault
I loved it. So many posts of this length don't hold my interest, but this one did. If you're up to it, I'd love for you to asses his blatant use of Gustav of political gain, which we all know the MSM well gleefully report.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tallahasseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you.
Your awesome insight is greatly appreciated at a time like this!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks, Nance, for zeroing in on mccain's and the cmw's
trivial pursuit with such rapid fire precision!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tumbulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent
My brother-in-law who has been a stubborn Dem turned McCain supporter for reasons unknown to any of us has now, today said with great sadness: "I just can't vote for him now, he's gone loony".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm sure I speak for many when I say...
I certainly hope that you're right!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Agent William Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. Great captivating read...
This is now one of my favorite post in the last few weeks.

Awesome, just awesome.

:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
21. It's a hail mary
and McLame has proven he is, indeed 'MORE OF THE SAME'

And that he's Rush Limbaugh's b****.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. I can understand the reasoning behind a "Hail Mary" ...
... but some situations clearly call for a novena.

I don't want to be a gossip, but rumor has it that even St. Jude recently stated: "I know I'm the patron saint of impossible causes, but this McCain guy is on my last nerve."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. You need to get an agent and syndicate
this is priceless hitting every main point and even making points by recreating the dialect of a trailer park which I didn't think is possible.

Well the problem seems to be that they have too much weight on the starboard (right) side

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. Especially since Bob Novak retired!!! Liberal punditry in my newspaper would be a novel idea!
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 01:17 AM by Major Hogwash
Because they replaced Novak's column with Krauthammer's.

I didn't even know who he was.

Hahahahahahaha!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
81. I was looking for the link to the major news outlet. Why aren't you a professional?
I figured this was out of Time Mag or the NYTimes.
Send this around. It's the best I've read.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
122. I agree and have said so before.
Nance should be getting paid for this stuff. Not only is her writing really, really good, it's consistently really, really good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Damn, I need that! K and R
:kick:


Thanks, NanceGreggs!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. So, what happened to "Senator McCain"? You know, the one Senator Kerry ...
.... masterfully painted as the counter-point to "Candidate McCain" in the context of the ongoing "debate" the two have been having with one another, increasingly so since summer 2007?

Earlier today I :

If I were to give McCain the benefit of suspending all that he apparently is, and reflect on how he must have felt after being battered by Rove (and Rove's puppy dog George), I would then speculate that McCain knows what he is doing and that he made it spectacularly clear yesterday.

If the outcome on Nov 5 is not only a landslide victory for Obama/Biden but major gains for Dems, at the Federal, State, Regional and City levels, then McCain may have extracted his revenge and served the Republic, big time.

The fundamentalists will be set back by at least four decades as just one of many consequences, and the Republic will be on its way to repair and renaissance.


In response to:

I just wish I could think you are right. That would be some sweet revenge. But I really think McCain is too ego/ambition driven to do it.


I noted:

Oh, I agree with you, for sure.

What I'm suggesting is definitely at least two standard deviations removed from the most likely - a desperately ambitious dude who knows he's going to get his butt kicked and will do anything to try to make it not so.

Too bad for McCain that he just motivated millions of women to ensure that they each get a shot at kicking his butt.

I had always hoped that after what Rove and Bush did to McCain, that he would emerge as a decent, experienced Republican in the spirit of . It was obvious by '04 that any chance of McCain honoring the memory of Eisenhower was close to, if not, zero.

My empathetic nature always prevails, though, even when it might appear ridiculous ... I'll always hope for the best in each person and that they experience their personal best during this all too brief life we have.


For me the only questions are - did McCain intentionally crash the GOPer ship or, as he's done more than once in his life, simply crash because he didn't have a clue what he was doing???

Great OP as always Nance!
Bob




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Early dementia - period. Being played like a fiddle. -nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Maybe. But, likely not. The clinical signs are more consistent with prolonged ...
.... PTSD coupled with a vastly delusional sense of self.

I think the guy is more than capable of being vindictive to the point of taking the GOPer ship down, intentionally.

We don't have long to wait to know.

Peace,
Bob
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. Only one problem with an otherwise excellent analysis
It was the RW that sank Harriet Meiers. They were afraid she wasn't crazy enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Well, yes ...
... she did have that modicum of sanity that went against her in the end.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
85. These are the people McCain is pandering to ...

These are exactly the people that John McCain is now pandering to after being a "Maverick" for so long.

My new opinion of McCain ... he's a self serving, self important son of a bitch. He adopted his "Maverick" persona in Arizona because that is what sells amongst independent minded westerners. Shit, he's in Barry Goldwater's seat!!!! He took this persona into the 2000 election and got buzzsawed by people who knew how to play the bible belt and turn honest faith into slavish, mindless, zombie like devotion. Bush whooped his ass.

After two years of smarting, McCain decided "If you can't beat em' join em'". So now McCain walks hand in hand with the people he described as "agents of intolerance".

Conclusion, McCain is a real pandering slimeball. At his advanced age, I doubt that he even knows what he believes any more. He just says what is whispered into his ears.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
27. Spot-on analysis.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
31. My dear Nance!
And yet again!

Thank you...

Long may you live, write, and prosper...:hug:


K&R


:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
32. Good stuff, Nance. But......
You know, I've heard very little support from Republican elected officials. It seems like the GOP think tanks and bloggers and commentators love her, but I don't see a lot of elected official support (especially from the U.S. Senate). I am sure many elected Republicans are outraged about this - and I bet the McCain campaign and the RNC is catching an earful. Big donors, too. This is one of those things that's so far from left field that it plays well as a novelty for a day or two or three, but after that - I see a new VEEP, and we have to remember, this isn't Sarah Palin's fault - JOHN McCAIN picked her as the "most qualified" to step into the presidency. This pick is more about John McCain than Sarah Palin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
33. first let me say that I really didn't care if it was hillary or obama.
I wasn't the biggest fan of either one of them, but I was more then ready to vote for either one of them. I said that so no one can accuse me of being a hillary lover, all of this palin shit would be moot if obama had just chosen hil as his vp. I really don't give a shit about all of the theories about why he didn't want to choose her. this freaking election is not about what the fuck he wants, it's what we need. we need to get the hillbillies out of power before they deliver the damn end of the world that they pray for so much.

Geez man this shit drives me crazy with all of the chess moves and blah, blah, blah. from the day that numbers said that he was the nom, he should have said that hillary is my vp if she wants it, straight up. sometimes I think the dude is crazy if he thinks he is going to walk his ass around racism that easy. his ass is black, I don't care if his mother is white, he looks black and that's all it's going to take for a lot of people not to vote for him (and that's a lot of so called Dem's). so screw all of the chess moves and blah, blah, blah. he's going to need every freaking thing he can lay his hands on to get the win, and if kissing hil and bills ass for four years is what it would have taken he should signed right the hell up.

remember he said it himself, it's not about him it's about us.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Should have picked Hillary
No question about it! Actually the ticket should have been reversed, but that is another topic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #35
53. Nuh uh
You've set a new internet highwater mark for "mistaken" on multiple counts.

But please keep throwing those embarrassing hanging sliders over the home plate of reality, while reality keeps smacking them over the left field fence.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
102. either way would have been fine for me. no favorites here
he hasn't been around long enough, and I really don't think that just because your husband was president that makes you presidential. but either one is way better then any republician.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #102
162. Cut the crap. She went out
and got the votes by herself. I am sick and tired of the people on DU who constantly ridicule Hillary. Most of them hate women. I will vote for Obama because I think he will be a good president. I loved Hillary and would have loved to see her get the nomination. I listen to the talking heads who criticize her speech and say it wasn't enough. When the press hates you you have very little chance of being elected. She got 18,000,000. votes that is not chicken feed. The press loves mccain so watch out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Wrong on so many levels!
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
103. if you say so. but it's going to be a problem if the hottest governor
catches on with the fellows and gals looking for a reason not to vote for a black person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #103
156. Yes, It destresses me too that
this country places so much emphasis on looks and people will vote for her based on her looks and not her knowledge.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #103
157. I'm getting sick of reading about this "assumption of wide racism"
It's cynical thinking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-08 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #157
190. yeah till the shit happens to you. like it or not that's life in this time.
perfect example mrs. mccain is all over the place making comments on this comments on that. you hear anybody talking about she is going to need a make over like they've done to mrs. obama, the big angry black women is just too scary and she needs to be toned down.

don't take racism for granted, old girl is alive and well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. It is about us and I don't think...
the country could have taken another four years of the Hill and Bill show. I was talking to a Hillary supporter the other day who admitted that Bill was what cost her that primary. And you don't exactly sound all that impartial to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
akangel2008 Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. I'll have to give you that...
Bill definitely got in the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #38
105. shit bill and hillary both pissed me off, with that "if you don't
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 11:00 AM by okieinpain
like the way someone looks" shit. but you have to admit the whole puma crap is a un-needed pain in the ass. obama is making history and there are a lot of people who don't like change and that's on the dems side all so.

racism is alive and breathing in the good old usa and no one should forget it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
49. Is this your reply to the OP ...
... or the script from a "Sopranos" outtake?

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #49
106. no just my general opinion on this subject. sorry for the confusion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. Excellent post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmondine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
39. Not only are women voters not going to automatically vote for just any woman...
Many of them see the choice of an unqualified former beauty queen over many more experienced but less "sparkly" alternatives as just more of the same misogyny that the GOP is famous for. And they're right to feel insulted by that choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #39
86. I'm already hearing that in a huge way from my friends
Passing over more qualified women...not good
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. Well, McCain has fired his campaign manager 3 times in the last year. So, obviously, he isn't
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 01:49 AM by Major Hogwash
listening to himself or he would puke.

I agree with you totally. This pick is a major blunder for McCain.
A lot of people were worried that he would pick Lieberman, or Huckabee because they were seen as risky choices.
The smart move would have been to pick Romney and hope like hell that pick would have put Michigan into play.
Or, he could have chosen Pawlenty and maybe have put Minnesota into play.

But, by picking Palin, he blew his chance to bring any of those states into play.
He blew the chance to make any blue/red states redder.

All he did was sew up the vote in Alaska, and I'm not even sure this pick does that, what with all of the investigations going on into a governor who only has 20 months experience!!!
20 months experience as the Governor of one of the least populated states in America!!

But, what's worse that that - it puts more spotlight on Alaska and the dirty Republicans from Alaska!!
This will put a floodlight on Ted Stevens now.
Just what the Republicans didn't need!!
More spotlight on the Republican crooks of the "culture of corruption", as Pelosi called it.

Alaska may wind up with a Democratic Senator in place of Stevens now.
And if the investigations into Palin's actions are detrimental, not only will that drag down the McCain ticket, it may force Palin to resign from office or be recalled next year!!

This was a boneheaded decision.
This was not a decision made by some Republican "genius" who thinks he clevered checkmated Obama's pick of Biden.
No, this was a decision made by someone who was too clever by a half.
They thought that putting ANY woman on the ticket would make her qualified to be President - and we all possess the good common sense to reject that premise out of hand!!

But, then, that's just my opinion.
I have great faith in the American people to see through this charade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
42. Excellent post!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
44. EXCELLENT and on the money as usual
K&R..

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
48. Heres the answer, from now on refer to her as "Grandma Palin"
If she bridles at it then she can PROVE she Isnt that baby's grandmother..

It's all about PR Wars with these guys, and it's Us or Them..

"granny" is too informal, grant her the dignity of "Grandma"...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
50. Hammer meet final nail in coffin. Well done Nance, well done!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
51. I was heckled for saying this yesterday....
but you say it so much more eloquently. And, of course, I agree 100%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
52. I may actually watch the Sunday morning shows to see what story they have come up with
this is not only pandering to women but it is clearly a pay-off to the radical fundie right

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213


I'm up at 4 AM because I can't sleep. Cokie and the rest of the punditry are probably up flushing out their souls with some good vodka, preparing themselves to read whatever DC has come up with in the last 48 hours to keep their guy propped up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
54. I think you're right. She will be the straw that killed the golden calf ... or ... something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
56. Republicans are all from Lego-land..where evrything is interchangeable
any woman is everywoman
any black person is every black person..

republicans just don't DO nuance and their bag of tricks is crumpled on the floor..with a big fat cheshire cat on it:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
57. I been a-lookin' and a-waitin' for yer spot-on evaluatin of Ol' Geezer's nominatin' of Ms. Palin!
You know, there IS one thing everyone overlooked except ol' Geezer McCain: the MAN vote. (Not being sexist here, but the polls indicate (pun intended) that men favor her nomination much more than wimmin.)

Great post and one to which I always look forward!

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
58. Question: your post is only a few hours old, but yet it is flamin'
FOR Palin? Why?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
59. Harriet Miers! Yes, I knew this reminded me of something!
That was it. Spot on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
60. The promise to overturn Roe v. Wade is about the only promise to the religious right that Bush
kept, as much as a President can. His appointments to the Supreme Court and lower federal courts are anti-choice. Most are also young. We are going to be dealing with Dummya, via the courts for decades. That is only one of many ways Dummya is trying to bind the future, well beyond his 8 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
63. Terrific piece, NG......but I don`t know whether to laugh or cry.
The selection of a vice presidential candidate and the advancement of women to their rightful place are both serious issues. John McCain has turned both those issues into a regular freak show.

Friday`s announcement under the Republican`s "Big Tent" was complete with a carnival barker warm-up, a selection of programmed circus fans and the frenzy-inducing beauty queen riding in on the elephant. The follow-up was nearly as entertaining when 37 trained seal spokespersons showed up on my teevee, balancing the ball on their noses in nearly perfect unity. I was so overcome with emotion I nearly vomited.

Is McCain kidding me? With our daily lives rife with wars, bankruptcies, global warming, disintegrating infrastructure, a health care crisis, student loan debt, national debt, credit card debt, crumbling factories and who knows what else, John McCain drags out the gun-toting Miss Congeniality contestant? Thinking women will go for that reckless combination of danger and nonsense?

I`ll tell you one thing...I thought Junior`s arrival on the flight deck with his helmet, codpiece and flightsuit was the most ridiculous political theatre I`d ever see. I was dead wrong. Apparently John McCain`s taste for beauty queens overcame any residual hint of common sense. If this was just a joke, I`d laugh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
64. Come on January 20, 2009! You sweet day!
:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
65. Nice, Nance!
Of course there are many women that are as perfectly limited in their perception as there are similar men. My elderly mother is now convinced, based entirely on McCain's choice for VP, that he will defeat Obama/Biden. She seems to place great emphasis on how pretty Palin is and how, now, without Hillary, we are doomed. She is nearly 89 years old.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dothemath Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
67. Not over yet .......................
Thinking about all the lies that have been disseminated by repubs since 2000, this was just a "run it up the flagpole boys and see if anyone salutes" moment.

No one did. Okay, time for the rescue to begin. Palin will find a reason to withdraw from consideration. It will be so noble, so unselfish, so wonderful to the American people, a new national holiday will be created in her honor.

Meanwhile, if I were her, I would stay off small private planes for awhile. And this might be a good time for her oldest daughter to attend a private, cloistered convent in Switzerland for a few years, one that doesn't allow any contact with the outside world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
68. Major U.S. political columnists go days and weeks without a
keeper paragraph, let alone entire columns.

Nance, you do it all the time.

This is seamless and deft stuff.

Outstanding, as always.

Recommended with thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
70. NG
Once again, a thoughtful post to put some sanity around the insanity that McCain showed on Friday afternoon.

My only hope - my greatest hope - is that the media picks up on all of the points you've made. Somehow, I keep catching a talking head with a Democrat and a Republican. The Democrat tries to bring up these points, then gets cut off by a neodweebie monzweebie Republican and the talking head gushing about what a wonderful person Gidget is and how much she brings to the table. And no one is asking which of McCain's tables she's bringing it to.<----Okay, that's not nice. But now is not the time to be 'nice'.

She needs to be Truth Boated. Notice - I didn't say, Swiftboated. There's more TRUTH in her dirty dealings, lack of experience, and lack of knowledge in world affairs - that needs to be highlighted. I don't believe it would impact the base, but the Indies? More may just bolt from McCain if this message gets out.

We keep forgetting - the Indies are not necessarily as well-educated as the average DU'er. Not 'education' per se - but self-taught political knowledge and understanding of the candidates. They don't read as much as you and I or the average DU'er. They only take what the MSM feeds them.

So your post is beautiful - but when will the media start feeding each of these points to the masses?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
71. Here's hoping you're right, Nance. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lilyannerose Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
72. I Do Hope You Are Right
This Palin woman and her family values and her fundi standard is the fabric of nightmares of four more years. One thing I did not want to see was that ungly mentality rallied to the polls in November.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
73. Who would have thought he'd pick his grand-daughter.........
:hide: Many GOP men think she is beautiful, me I see her as a fruit cake with glasses, its in the eyes. She is one wacky ..... .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #73
164. I see her as the new fanatsy for
the little turds in Freeperville, with their hands under the keyboard and pants around their ankles. With Ann D. Coulter looking like the Crypt Keeper's illegitimate cross dressing son, and Michelle Malkin marginalized, the Freeperville wankers have a new diversion.
Just remember, if you live in a Republican district wash your hands after voting, if you get my drift.
How could I sink so low? I don't know, it just happens. :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
74. Spot on!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
76. What I always LOVE about you Nance, are the dead-on, lovely metaphors! You Rock!
And I don't mean just in your go-go boots ('cuz I hear those are a-comin' back in style with the advent of Miz Sarah P)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
77. Excellent post! The Harriet Miers of VP's. What a connection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
78. Oh, and I second what grantcart said.
Make a living at this, if you don't already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
79. Great piece, Nance.
It is interesting to see how many are abandoning ship and who is NOT speaking on their behalf.

I said in another post that with all of the problems we have here and abroad, McCain's first presidential decision was to select a VP with no track record of leadership, expertise, exposure or diplomacy in any area of any issue, that would help turn this country around.

Pure de suicide, you are so right.

Every attempt to justify Palin as VP magnifies the foolishness of the selection, like a canteen on a desert emphasizes the arid sand.

They will attempt full damage control now. We will see little of this pair. There will be the campaign stops with scripted speeches (mostly by Palin and even less from McCain), one-line responses to the media while running back to the bus to be wisked away from telling eyes. Campaign-issued statements will be the major form of communication.

They have 2 months to create major distractions and keep the conversations away from any issues; to help 83 million viewers forget the impact of the Democratic National Convention and to instill fear and division across the nation.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
83. BEST. SLAPDOWN. EVER. !!!
and it couldn't be more deserved by both Palin and McCain and any fool who sends them money or votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
84. Excellent!
:applause:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
87. I was waiting for your post on this. Good one, Nance!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
88. Elegantly nailed.
Palin's selection is demonstrative of yet another trait McCain shares with W -- the assumption that we are too stupid to know when we're being diddled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
89. Amen
Woot Woot Hot Damn and a whole lot of things that my brain can't recall right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bronxiteforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
90. Kick & R-WOW! Thanks for the post!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
91. I have no choice but to agree
with your post. If you are wrong then there really is no hope and this country is truly doomed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FraDon Donating Member (316 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
92. SO wise Nance, so prescient: "as an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question ...
that only the most picayune politicos will remember a year from now."

A LOT of ops and black ops are underway, and will continue to accelerate in these last precious hours, till what might be a more fair election, might occur as planned.

Cabals of highly motivated players with the deepest of pockets, darkest of souls, and blackest of mercenary armies have lots of cards yet to play. • I suspect that NEITHER John nor Sarah will be the Republican party's standard bearers this year. WAY too much is at stake. There are lots of "game changers" waiting around any corner.

Speaking of game changers, how do you like the Republican's jazz like improvisation around Gustav, the harmonically third anniversary hurricane? I'm sure there were smiles galore, when the press release went out that the sitting President would not be attending his party's national convention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FraDon Donating Member (316 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. Oops, CNN just reported the Vice President will not be attending either. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
93. What the hell is a dominionist?


http://dogemperor.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/29/1803647-sarah-palin-dominionist-stalking-horse

Sarah Palin: Dominionist Stalking Horse

The big news, obviously, in the blogosphere today is John McCain's surprise pick for the Republican veep nominee--a relative unknown by the name of Sarah Palin, whom--at least in the more conventional political circles--would appear to be a complete cypher.

Unfortunately, if one digs just a bit deeper, Palin is found to have some very interesting--and very disturbing--connections...among them, being potentially the first Assemblies-linked VP candidate, being a member of a "pro-life" group promoting itself as a feminist org, and having a number of links to dominionist groups targeting kids via "bait and switch" evangelism. . . . Sarah Palin's connections that McCain doesn't want you to know about

There are quite a number of extremely troubling links between Sarah Palin and neopentecostal dominionists--enough that, in truth, she may be ultimately as much of a "dream candidate" for the dominionist movement as Mike Huckabee was. Even worse, she's running in a manner that has been frighteningly successful for dominionist groups since the early 80's--specifically, as a "stealth candidate".

Palin's Assemblies linkage

The first link in and of itself is a doozy--and one of the most damning indeed. No less than the official newsletter of the Assemblies of God of Alaska promotes her proudly as one of the denomination's own, and she was actually feted at an official function of the Assemblies' Alaska District as recently as this year:

The opening night banquet of the 2008 Alaska District Council was honored to have Governor Sarah Palin address the delegates and guests. Governor Palin spoke of her appreciation for the Assemblies of God and requested that the Council pray for both her and the State of Alaska. Superintendent Ted Boatsman, who was Palin’s junior high pastor at Wasilla Assembly of God, along with Pastor Mike Rose of Juneau Christian Center, where Palin presently attends church when in Juneau, laid hands on the Governor and led the Council in prayer.

Palin, who was elected Governor in 2007, is Alaska’s youngest governor and the first female governor of the state. She just recently gave birth to her fifth child, Trig. Palin spoke of the faith challenge she faced when learning that Trig would be a Downs Syndrome child. However, she and her husband, Todd, believe that every child is a gift of God, deserving of life, and that God was asking them to accept His will for their lives. The Alaska District Council believes that the State of Alaska is blessed to have a woman of faith and courage as Governor.

A look at the home website of Palin's church tends to be revealing. Among other things, a particular Assemblies buzzword associated frequently with Hillsong A/G and New Zealand Assemblies churches shows up ("Destiny", here, is a buzzword for "Joel's Army", and is being preferred even as the phrase "Joel's Army" is getting enough negative spin that even the Assemblies is now having to do some rather massive spin control); cell churches are promoted (of the same sort that are linked to short-term and longterm psychological damage and are among the most coercive tactics ever documented in spiritually abusive groups). The church, like a number of other large Assemblies churches, is the center of a dominionist broadcast TV center whose programming is carried across multiple channels in Alaska.

In a trend that has been recently documented by no less than Southern Poverty Law Center (in its recent report on the Joel's Army movement), the church operates a Seven Project-esque targeted recruitment campaign aiming at teens (this is common across the Assemblies and across "Joel's Army" groups in general; fully a third of the documented national-level front groups operated by the Assemblies target teens).

And...believe you me, Palin's church is *definitely* "Joel's Army".

Mike Rose, pastor of Juneau Christian Center (Palin's church), is noted to be connected with the "Third Wave Movement"--a movement in neopente dominionist circles that is the major theological home of "Joel's Army". In fact, he's quite closely connected with Rodney Howard-Browne, a major (in fact, for some years, *the* major promoter) of "Third Wave" neopente dominionism, and actively promotes this insanity in his church:

1. Mike Rose

Mike is an AOG pastor in the largest city in Alaska, who had Rodney Howard-Browne minister in his church four years ago. At that time, they had a congregation of 200, but over the last 4 years, they have seen it grow to 600 in a community of 35,000.

The format that Mike uses is one which gives a balanced approach to church life, allowing for worship and the Word, ministry to the unsaved as well as impartation of the Holy Spirit.

To do this, he has followed a fairly traditional Sunday morning worship service with worship, communion and preaching of the Word, as well as all the other activities which occur in our morning services, such as dedications and so on.

If there are two or three people who are perhaps crying or laughing uncontrollably, the ushers will gently lead them into the prayer room where they can continue to enjoy the presence of Jesus without affecting those around them.

However, he is also open to the possible occasions when the Holy Spirit will just sweep over the service and the majority of the people will be either laughing, crying or worshipping at one time.

His Sunday evening service generally lasts for three to four hours, compared to the morning one of around two hours. At the conclusion of the evening evangelistic endeavour, people are invited to open up their hearts and hunger for a fresh touch of the Spirit. It was during these times that the powerful manifestations will take place and, having observed what has been happening in our Adelaide meetings over the last few weeks, these times have a great similarity to the old time Pentecostal camp meeting or tarrying services where people received a fresh touch of God.

Mike encourages his people to hunger and has taught them along that line. He helped them to understand and develop a new sensitivity to the ways of the Holy Spirit. His observations were:

* You cannot sustain a move of the Spirit without hunger.

* Corrections need to be made from time to time.

* Don't just get fascinated by the move of God, but rather keep your eyes on Jesus.

* Mission giving and outreach evangelism should be a prominent part of this move and the churches which don't reach out soon dry up.

He encourages us not to hype it up and that there needs to be a continual emphasis on holiness and that only qualified people should lay hands on those who have come for prayer.

Mike is also an adviser on Rodney Howard-Browne's Revival Ministries committee, along with three or four other AOG pastors in the USA. He informed me that he had sat in over 110 of Rodney's meetings and been impressed by the lack of pressure and hype, but by the powerful anointing of the Spirit which accompanies this young man.

As to *why* Howard-Browne's involvement is distressing--well, this previous article should give some pointers, but suffice it to say that another notable church he's had close connections with is the very church I am a walkaway from--hence how I know some of this up close and personal.

Some of the fun includes literal imprecatory prayers and curses against critics and literally accusing critics even within pentecostal circles of literal blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:

Rodney Howard-Browne gave this 'prophesy' last year at New Life Center: 'Do not compromise. For if you compromise, you shall not only lose the anointing that I placed upon you, you shall lose your life.'" . . .
"I'm telling your right now," hissed, "you'll drop dead if you prohibit what God is doing!" Dramatically he gestured toward the crowd and warned them
that those like me, who would dare to question that what he was doing was of God, had committed the unpardonable sin and would not be forgiven in this world or the next."
Bad news...but it doesn't stop there.

Palin's links to "Feminists" For Life, a deceptive anti-abortion group

As if the Assemblies links weren't enough (and between this diary and the stuff that has been reported re John Ashcroft--much less George W. Bush's consistent support for Assemblies frontgroups--that should be a pretty big damn danger sign right there!), there's still more to indicate Sarah Palin may have been put in as a "stealth dominionist".

Among other things, Palin explicitly promoted "teach the controversy" by calling for the misnamed "creation science" to be taught in public schools (as now well documented in Kitzmiller vs. Dover School District, it's known that "creation science" is nothing more and nothing less than a method of putting young-earth creationism in public schools).

It also appears that Sarah Palin is a member of a misnamed group called Feminists for Life. FFL in fact engages in "cultural appropriation" of women's suffrage icons to promote a very woman-unfriendly agenda that--despite attempts to sound "not like those crazies in Operation Rescue"--would not only criminalise abortion but the IUD and hormonal birth control methods, and potentially everything outside the rhythm method (the term "abortifacient birth control" is a codephrase in the dominionist "pro-life" community for hormonal birth control--partly due to a unique urban legend claiming "the pill" and other hormonal birth control causes abortion and partly because of a unique definition of pregnancy beginning at conception rather than at implantation (the latter is what most mainstream OB/GYNs use) and thus making *anything* preventing implantation potentially "abortifacient").

FFL promotes such fun bogosities as "post-abortion syndrome" (the idea that having an abortion will inevitably lead to PTSD and insanity), and promotes mandatory waiting periods and misinformation guidelines that can be insurmountable for poor or rural women--even those forced to make the most heartbreaking choice because of a nonviable pregnancy. In fact, one of their biggest causes isn't feminist at all--they actively promote the idea that the best choice for women is to stay home as fulltime mothers, and it can be well argued that the only traditionally feminist viewpoint they really support is women's suffrage!

One of the big things FFL promotes is deceptive "pregnancy counseling centers"--where pregnant teens are forced to essentially listen to an altar call on how "abortionists want to murder their children" whilst a pee-stick test clears--and if she tests "yes", she gets a hard-sell to keep the child or to check herself into a dominionist-run "halfway house for teenage moms" where she will ultimately be forced to sign her kid over. (Yes, there is an entire private adoption industry in the dominionist community--mostly focusing on adopting out the infants of poor teenage mothers who have been forced to give their kids up and who have been either scared into it or checked into such facilities by their parents.)

Ironically, FFL itself is rather a "stealth" organisation in and of itself--yes, even the dominionists admit this. Interestingly, despite their claims of being more "moderate" than most anti-abortion groups, very few real solutions are offered on how they intend to fund such things (which can be boiled down to "CHOOSE TO BREED").

Palin's links with Campus Crusade frontgroups

Palin's linkages don't stop there. In Kaylene Johnson's book Sarah: How a Hockey Mom Turned Alaska's Political Establishment Upside Down (2008, Epicenter Press) it's mentioned that Palin was head of the local Fellowship of Christian Athletes branch in her school--up to and including leading team prayers.

It is helpful to know a bit of FCA's past history to know why this is a matter of concern. FCA is, in fact, a known frontgroup of the coercive dominionist group Campus Crusade for Christ--yes, the selfsame Campus Crusade that has such close links to the Assemblies of God that it can be described as a "conjoined twin" of the Assemblies and the same one documented as having links to an ever-widening prosyletisation scandal in our Armed Forces. FCA also gets quite a lot of cash from de facto Assemblies funding-front Hobby Lobby--a chain, of note, that has bailed out a neopente university and has even funded paramilitary "Joel's Army" groups targeting teens.

The links between FCA and a particular Hobby Lobby frontgroup, Bearing Fruit Communications, are particularly close. At least one member of Bearing Fruit's board of directors (T. Ray Grandstaff) is a former Senior VP for Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Regarding FCA itself, the group has been linked to dominionism in numerous ways; they are well known for "bait and switch" evangelism (in fact, they and Athletes in Action are among the two groups most frequently banned from public school campuses due to bait-and-switch "altar calls" marketed as anti-drug talks to the school administration). More info here. (Such tactics are a favourite of dominionist groups explicitly targeting youth.) It's also well known (and, apparently, explicitly by design) that Fellowship of Christian Athletes rather aggressively "dominionist-ises" any team they are let into (this tends to be bad even within the NFL, but even more so within FCA groups run in colleges and high schools).

Of particular note, FCA has close links with the US Air Force Academy religious coercion controversies (and is but one of *multiple* Campus Crusade frontgroups documented by Military Religious Freedom Foundation as involved in military religious coercion scandals), and the ACLU has had to fight them since the 60's because of religious coercion (in particular, Jewish people tend to be targeted, according to the anti-cult group Rick Ross Foundation); in addition, it is explicitly supported by dominionist groups, and explicitly partners with other dominionist groups targeting youth (including Chi Alpha (an Assemblies of God frontgroup), Campus Crusade for Christ, and even scarier groups like "See You At The Pole" (infamous for, among other things, nailing people's names to crosses and "praying" over them to essentially curse people in the name of Christ to convert or suffer) and Council for National Policy).

And finally, the dominionists themselves like her

As expected, many if not most of the dominionist groups in the US have given explicit approval for Palin on her anti-abortion bona-fides alone--including Concerned Women for America, Focus on the Family, and a pack of the more extreme dominionist anti-abortion groups.

I'm not the only one to have noticed the rather extensive dominionist bona-fides--Pastor Dan over on Street Prophets has noted this as well. Frederick Clarkson over on Talk to Action has also noted salutations from two other dominionist leaders--one being Kenneth Blackwell, who was the "dream candidate" of neopente dominionists in his home state (fortunately, he lost the gubernatorial election).

Chip Berlet has also noted on Talk to Action a further endorsement from Eagle Forum--the oldest dominionist political group aside from "The Family" and the Assemblies-linked FGBMFI.

In addition, it would seem she may well have quite a bit of approval from dominionists in general--that is, if the barometer of the Texas GOP Convention is to be believed. (The Texas GOP is one of the most thoroughly steeplejacked GOP conventions in the US; many of the official party platforms are indistinguishable from Constitution Party platforms.) The Houston Chronicle reports:

"It's a slam dunk. I think that people who are concerned about 'How conservative is Mr. McCain' are now going to say, 'If he can make a choice of Sarah Palin, then he can be trusted with our conservative ideals,' " said delegate Cathie Adams, Republican National Committeewoman-elect and president of the Texas Eagle Forum.
. . .
"I always thought he needed to pick a woman," said Harris County Clerk Beverly Kaufman, former president of the Texas Federation of Republican Women. "I think Hillary Clinton's campaign stimulated a lot of interest among women voters, and I think this is going to hit a chord."

But Kaufman added: "I look forward to learning more about her." She also noted that Palin is considered to be against abortion rights, and McCain "thought he needed to satisfy that wing of the party."

Here's hoping this article starts shining a little bit of light on the subject--the last thing we need a literal heartbeat away from the Presidency is a ninja dominionist.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #93
180. Everything you ever wanted to know about Dominionism, but were afraid to ask.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
96. I consider it a low-blow to bring the "rearing of her children" into the conversation.
There are a ton of issues to call into question when discussing Palin. Resorting to attacking her parenting choices when it's never brought up when the candidate is a man is unnecessary. We should leave the sexist low-blows out of the discussion. If the GOP and its base take issue with this, let 'em. But it's another example of men and women being held to very different standards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #96
98. I don't think Nance would disagree with you,
however, her point is that there are many ignorant people out there who would judge Governor Palin on this very point. To believe that this consideration does not exist will not make it go away. It truly is unfortunate that women still have to unjustly bear this burden, but they do nonetheless and McSame & Co., as Nance alludes, should have considered this.

I am both grateful for Nance bringing it up, and for you to take acception.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #98
110. it's comparable to Repub's being favorable racism at work against Obama... except unlike Nance-
they aren;t ignorant and comfortable enough with the bigotry to siddle up and embrace it as a good thing.


"For every voter who sees Pretty Sarah as embodying traditional Family Values, there are four who wonder why a mother of five, including a special-needs infant, is more than willing to leave her children behind while she pursues not a 9-to-5 job, or even a demanding career, but a position that will mean all but abandoning the rearing of those children to someone else."


Judgemental sexist bullshit, is what it is, and NEVER a good thing.
Advancing bigotry is an embarrassment, and so is this OP. This should not be part of the conversation in the 21st century. Sad that many here don't get it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #110
115. And those that "get it" are accused of being freepers and "protecting" Palin.
Disgusting.

And thank you, bettyellen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #115
118. The more I hear,
the more I DO question why a mother of five would find this type of position acceptable. Just curious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. What about a father of 5?
Just curious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #120
124. Ok
However, her decision to run makes me that much more grateful that my working mother did believe that spending evenings and weekends with me and my siblings were too important to fret away in an office as Governor Palin will surely due if elected vice-president. I feel sorry for her children, that's all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #124
139. it is simply that the quality of her family life shouldn;t be held up for MORE INTENSE SCRUTINY
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 12:17 PM by bettyellen
than not just any man's but everyman's. Successful men are- more often than not- absentee Dads. Michelle Obama complained about it herself..... yet it's not an "isssue", if he were a she, it would be. Sexist, no doubt at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #139
179. Fair enough, but
the ideal of motherhood is diminished a few notches when a woman chooses to spend less time with her offspring. The choice is hers, of course, but she shouldn't expect to be revered as a mother that most of us idealize under these circumstances.

And if this is okay with her, then she has my support in her endeavors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #179
191. it's a very personal thing- and much too dangerous for any of us to sit in judgement of
for instance- i'm laughing my head off that the daughter's knocked up. but i would never suggest we make hay out of it. because there's one thing parents liberal and conservative will agree on- especially the moms- it's how wrong it is to sit in judgement of theor child rearing skills. or lack therof. that's the only right to privacy they do respect.
sure, teen pregnancy would be plenty embarrassing for a fundie- if they didn;t have the resources to easily cope with it and a strong motivation, in fact an an absolute imprtative to deny theirs any shame in it at all. but that's what Palin knows she must do, and most Moms will support her right to privacy and her unconditional support of her daughter in all this. i wish she'd be les of a hippocrite and rain hell fire on the kid, but it ainlt going to happen. we all have to pretned to believe her that she's happy for the kid.

all that said, being a great parent was never a requisite for higher office- not an issue till women began to run. so, it never should have come up. dad's can raise kids just fine too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. Cheers n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #118
138. just not curious about the dad though- and just not getting it at all.
in a nutshell it is sexist- as well as foolish to put limits on this woman's career because what? the Dad isn't enough?
It makes no sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #110
116. You're right...
still don't get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #110
184. It is not how she mothers her family that is the question. It is the hypocrisy that
she embraces while doing it.
She is a fanatic advocate of a belief system one of whose tenets is that the only place for a woman is at home with her family, and whose main job is to listen to and follow the directions of her husband.
This doctrine is what is supposed to win the fundie vote...while she is as far from practicing it as a woman with five children could possibly be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
97. Not only should we question McCain's judgment,
but also Palin's. To accept this place on the Republican ticket without a common sense attempt at objectively seeing what she brings to the table and how she may affect the ticket demonstrates that she is just as selfishly ambitious as McSame. Instead of ensuring that the Republicans win, she would rather have this place in history. Too bad for the repigs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
100. Goin' Down On Who, That Is The Question
Sorry, had to do it:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
104. i'm telling you now, I'm stealing your line here:
"...as an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question that only the most picayune politicos will remember a year from now."

Yeah, totally stealing that. Brilliant turn-of-phrase, I have to say.

K & R!!!

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
107. Giggity


She's goin' d-...what? Oh. Never mind!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
108. Nance, I enjoyed reading your piece and was especially struck by these words:
"For every voter who sees Pretty Sarah as embodying traditional Family Values, there are four who wonder why a mother of five, including a special-needs infant, is more than willing to leave her children behind while she pursues not a 9-to-5 job, or even a demanding career, but a position that will mean all but abandoning the rearing of those children to someone else."

In an OP I posted yesterday, I was questioning the same thing, and wondering what that willingness says about the character of the woman.

With a few exceptions (for which I was grateful) my words were misconstrued as saying that women with children shouldn't work, etc., etc., completely twisting what I said and ignoring the point I was trying to make.

So it's edifying to read that sentence in your OP, which I agree with in its entirety.



:headbang: :yourock: :headbang:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
114. I agree, Sarah is pretty... John is not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
everything-bolt-up Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
119. My meme: MCCAIN +PALIN= MORE OF THE SAME
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
121. Sarah has an anger problem too. If she was in control of her emotions
she would not have tried to get her ex brother in law fired, then fired the chief for not firing the brother in law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #121
137. Low blows are of little concern in a fight for your life.
The only concern is to make sure your blow only hits the opposition. Don't swing so wildly that you hit yourself.

Obama/Biden need to be above this. We do not, it's our responsibility to kneecap McCain/Palin in any way that will be effective and that usually is by negating strengths.

Sorry to all those that are offended but I imagine you'll be more offended living in a fascism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #137
142. It's about temperament. Will she act in a vindictive manner like McCain?
Don't we need at least one adult in the administration?

She showed poor judgement by using her position to punish an adversary. Maybe he deserved to be smacked down, but there are lawful ways of doing it. She chose not to follow the law. We've had eight years of abuse of power, we don't need four more years of the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
126. Stunning ....Nance...!
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
127. K&R
Let's see if the truth can manage to breach the bloviation barrier.

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
128. I found it amusing that the worst campaign I've ever seen, could actually
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 11:43 AM by rasputin1952
go down a notch!..:D

This was a gift from McCain...and it will be a pleasure to see him go down like few have done before...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
129. But...
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 11:54 AM by Baby Snooks
"From the beginning, we all prepared ourselves for the moment – some cringingly and others anxiously – when John McCain’s famous temper would hit the boil-over point and manifest itself in a meltdown of mammoth proportions, rendering him as unelectable as Charles Manson, O.J Simpson and Scott Peterson, combined."

But you forget how Republicans in the end circle the wagons and attack the Indians before the Indians can attack them. And the Democrats are the Indians. They would vote for Charles Manson, OJ Simpson and Scott Peterson, individually or combined, rather than vote for a Democrat.

But you forget that in "Southern" states like Texas some "moderate" and "conservative" Democrats will vote for him. And worse, some Democratic WOMEN will vote for him because of HER. All you need to do to realize that is look at the "popularity polls" in Texas for Kay Bailey Hutchison. They would never admit it but quite a few Democratic women do vote for her. Simply because she is a woman. In 2006 some rationalized it on the basis that Kay Bailey Hutchison is a "moderate" Republican and they preferred her over a "liberal" Democrat who was also a woman. Democrats run the gamut from liberal to conservative. Republicans are just Republican. They are rabid in their views which focus on the "ties that bind them" once they hit the voting booths. The one view in particular that the law does not apply to them. Democrats commit crimes. Republicans commit technicalities. Don't think so? Just ask Kay Bailey Hutchison.

Everyone assumes all the voters in the country, men and women, are intelligent and enlightened. They are anything but.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
130. Where have I seen this before???
Out of touch male figure -- strong, but inexperienced female with weird religious beliefs and a sick baby...

Hmmm.. try The Romanovs (Nicholas and Alexandra -- Russia, early 20th century)

That didn't work out so well.....



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
131. McLame just assured that the GOP will have 20 years in the political wilderness. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
134. The very few people I know who were 'on the fence'

Jumped off the fence and over to Obama, as soon as Palin was announced as the VP candidate.

He offended a LOT of people with this choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #134
140. She IS dreadful...
But then so is he. But to half the country, hopefully less than half, he's just perfect and so is she. Simply because they're Republicans.

There are a lot of Republicans angry over his not choosing Romney or Huckabee. But in the end, well, "better than a Democrat."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
135. I wouldn't get too optimistic.

Early results, such as from Zogby, show that support for McCain has surged. I tend to trust Zogby as a poller, more than most others. McCain and Obama are in a dead heat in his poll. I also wouldn't underestimate Republicans and their independent fellow-traveler's unconditional love for being pandered to.

I tend to think that McCain's insiders aren't as dumb as we think. The Obama camp has to seriously ask itself what the Roves thought she could bring to the ticket, besides the obvious. I mean, why somebody literally from one of the most remote places on earth? They wanted an "outsider" and that's apparent, but still, there's a point where it is being over-done.

Whether this works depends on what she personally brings to the ticket-- I mean, in terms of actual abilities. She's a gamble. If her skills turn out to be on par with Dan Quaile, we win.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
136. Nance, I saved my 1000th post in hopes of using it to reply to another of your excellent OPs
and you haven't let me down!

The McSogynist/Picayune ticket is so chock full o'pandering I'm surprised they aren't giving away bibles and a free gallon of gas (courtesy of BP "consultant" and "First Dude" Todd) to everyone who attends their rallies.

I found this definition of "maverick" the other day:

mav•er•ick (mvr-k, mvrk)
n.
1. An unbranded range animal, especially a calf that has become separated from its mother, traditionally considered the property of the first person who brands it


McCain has been wandering in the wilderness between the GOP and the Dems, alternately begging (the GOP in 2000) and flirting (with the Dems in 2004) to be branded. This has allowed him to fashion a narrative that he is an untamable beast, but the truth has finally been revealed here in 2008. McCain is just a lost and lonely baby looking for the latest teat to suckle from and if that means submitting to the white-hot branding iron of Rove, well then so be it.

"Country First" is McMansion's latest slogan, but picking Palin is supposed to be some kind of combined dog whistle of "Jesus First" and "Ladies First." It appears to be working on the fundies, but as a "proud Vagina-American" (thank you Samantha Bee) I ain't buyin' it and I don't think many other uterus-owners are either.

By his own admission, he wants to be President solely out of ambition. Clearly he doesn't expect to live too much longer, so if he croaks and leaves the country in the hands of President Hockey Mom, what does he care? He'll have made it into the history books, never mind all the terrible things that could happen in the chapters following his. "Country First"??? BS-- McCain puts McCain first and screw everyone else. Unfortunately for him, he no better at picking VPs than he was at flying planes.

Make no mistake; we still have lots of work to do to combat the ridiculous "neck and neck" meme that would allow for yet another stolen election, but with so many prominent Republicans already rending their garments over his pick, I think our job just got a LITTLE bit easier.


:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
141. What Repugs do trying to pander to women
is an insult to women. They obviously think we are stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. yes- but do we want to join in on the sexism? some here seee no harm in that.
but these people are alienating their fellow dems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #143
145. No, we sure don't.
I don't want to talk about her looks, etc., I want to talk about her record. And how desperate/stupid McCain was to pick her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #145
163. me neither, thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaineMike Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
144. Great post, but what about this possibility?
ST. PAUL, Minn. — The selection of Sarah Palin as John McCain’s running mate has electrified conservative activists, providing a boost of energy to the GOP nominee-in-waiting from a key constituency that previously had been lukewarm — at best — about him.

By tapping the anti-abortion and pro-gun Alaska governor just ahead of his convention, which is set to start here Monday, McCain hasn’t just won approval from a skeptical Republican base — he’s ignited a wave of elation and emotion that has led some grass-roots activists to weep with joy.

Serious questions remain about McCain’s pick — exactly how much he knows about her and her positions, past and present, on key issues. But for the worker bee core of the party that is essential to any Republican victory, there are no doubts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
147. That all important wimmins vote. Spot on Nance.
But us wimmins are not impressed. We wimmins agree with Barb. Boxer. The only thing Gov. Palin and Sen. Clinton have in common is there gender.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
148. Thanks Nance, You've topped yourself. imho n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
149. They are also accomplishing quite a bit while everyone is diverted.
police state in MN, blackwater hired for Gustav, whatever the hell they've got going on in Iraq/Iran and Central Asia...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
151. I'm not so sure this is the end of his campaign.
I think he made a bad choice, but people tend to forget who the veeps are fairly quickly. On top of that, McCain is still going to blast Obama with every dirty trick and negative ad you can possibly think of. I'd love to know McCain is finished, but I just don't see it, at least not yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
152. I hope you're right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
158. As always, you say what we all think and are unable to articulate as well. thanks. rec'd
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
159. Well, Nance, thanks for calling it like it is. Only now there's two
elephants in the room. And the emperor still has no clothes.

I wonder if Johnny Mac has any idea of the enormity of this mistake

and how it flies in the face of his rhetoric. He's shot himself in

the foot now over the "experience" debate. Surely this will be

juicy grist for the Democratic mill in the months to come. B-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
165. Sorry but I disagree entirely with the OP
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 04:58 PM by newtothegame
I realize the flame-risk I'm taking of disagreeing with NanceGreggs, especially after watching the primaries on here, but I think as a party we need to be much more pro-active and less complacent and sure-fire that this VP pick is going nowhere. I work at the University Hospital here in Iowa with a female majority in my department, and Sarah Palin was THE topic of conversation on Friday. Unfortunately, I heard women that have agreed with me all season on Obama v McCain flowering up Palin for her ability to relate to motherhood, domestic abuse concerns, etc. Nevermind the fact that she's anti-choice and pro-war (which all mothers should be concerned about) I said...:sarcasm: At least 2 of the 4 women in my office said they would HAVE to vote for a woman in the election. This is just my little corner of the world but I think it's irresponsible to be spending this campaign season on here telling people that Obama is a sure thing. I actually really enjoy your posts but don't feel like they do much for the election itself; they just give us that already agree with you a good laugh I guess. But after 2004, I will NEVER believe an election is a sure thing; the Neocons have a talent for making elections just close enough that they can steal them. Please, no more "Obama WILL be the president in November." How about, "Palin's stance on war, choice, energy and just about everything else will the argument that I will use to show people Obama is the clear choice. And I will do everything in my power to MAKE him our President in November."

Just my two cents :hug:

Edited for sp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #165
166. You are mistaking confidence for complacency ...
Yes, I am truly confident that Obama will win this election handily - that doesn't mean sitting back and doing nothing to make it happen.

I also believe that Palin as a VP pick is a blunder of disastrous proportions, and will lose McCain more votes than he would have had with a stronger - or should I say less insane - choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #165
169. in 3 wks you know that Nance is a hugely respected DUer?
I do know that two of my friend's coworkers (professors) already say they like her a lot, so that's troubling when they're liberal feminists - however, I believe when her politics are focused upon - half or more of those women should come back to our side.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
167. well written, my friend
his action of picking her was incredibly embarrassing - Joe Scarborough in shock about it on Morning Joe was good enough to state how real in-the-know GOPers feel about this horrible "Harriet Miers" type pick. But, this is even worse - somehow - than what she was chosen for - this is a bigger position - the person in waiting if anything were to happen to the president - what a laugher McSame is!

are we gonna take bets on here what the percentage will end up being b/c of this 300 EV's for Obama at this point (even if he only wins by 2 or 3 points nationally)? that's if the GOP hierarchy allows this to go forward - but at the point the convention starts I think it's set in stone for them w/o ANY chance of goin' back! YES!


MORE AT www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
168. Sadly, it could still win them an election-- please never forget the fact that they cheat. BIG TIME
How many swing states are still voting on corporately owned electronic voting machines? Florida is using opti-scan which at least gives us a paper ballot back up but it's illegal to count the paper ballots here in case of a close vote- only the (easily rigged) machines can be counted - that is without a lawsuit. Think that was an accident? Jeb put it in before he left, Crist ordered the new machines to appease everyone and they are literally worthless (unless we sue and it could go all the way to the Supremes and we know where that went).

The've already started stripping voters from the rosters- and will continue to do so as many times as they can. Trust me- they are not going to give up easily- too much has been set into place already and too much of our constitution has been stripped away (and Bush has his land already purchased in Patagonia) for them to risk losing this time. That's why the wanted Hillary so badly- they knew they could beat her - they'd been planning it for 8 years.

Watch out folks- sure Palin is a pathetic choice but it doesn't matter, The rix is in- except if it's a landslide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
170. Never disappointed by your posts.... Thank you so much,.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
172. Well, I guess they won't be wearing "purple heart bandaids" at this year's GOP convention.
38 million people watched Obama speak from Invesco field on Thursday night.
Those are "olympic-type" numbers, folks.

38 million!!!

Obama asked the people who went to Invesco field to put in 6 hours of volunteer work for his campaign this year.

78,000 people went to Invesco field.

That's 468,000 hours of volunteer time.

Some estimates are as high as 82,000 for the number of people that attended Obama's speech at Invesco, but I'm using the lower, more conservative figure.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
175. Great post! I am so sick of coming on to DU to find out how
"dangerous" she is. We have Obama and Biden! All they have is McGrump and someone WHO NEVER RAN FOR PRESIDENT who was handed a nomination! And I keep reading on DU how dangerous this is and what a brilliant pick she is!!!

You are so right, she is a total losing proposition. We need to find out ZERO about her and all we need to say is: 72 year old President and one heartbeat away!

People ran for and campaigned for, Obama, Biden, Hillary, Kucinich, Edwards, Richardson and even Mittens and 911iani. The idea that no one who anyone but McNuts ever thought of could well be President is so absurd I cannot believe that on DU of all places we keep hearing about how much of an advantage McGramps has by picking this utter nobody with nothing behind her!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
176. Thank you so much for writing this.
I've been in a rage since I heard about this "selection" and just now got to sit here and read your post. So thanks...I needed that.

You f'n rock the house.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
177. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
181. Sqaush them like the rotten fruit they are now, this is all Rove engineered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
182. huge kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
185. Plenty of nonsense
"...sorry rhetoric being trotted out when Harriet Miers was suddenly being touted as the most brilliantly qualified SCOTUS pick since the dawn of the Republic."

That's comical, a typical over statement that doesn't threaten reality. Conservatives were immediately outraged at the Miers pick. I'm sure anyone could dig up a thread or a column stating otherwise. That's a familiar desperate ploy. The overall mood was shock and disgust.

I'll merely paste from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Miers_Supreme_Court_nomination

"The nomination almost immediately drew criticism, virtually all of it from within the President's own party: David Frum castigated an "unforced error", and Robert Bork denounced it a "disaster" and "a slap in the face to the conservatives who’ve been building up a conservative legal movement for the last 20 years." Hearings before the United States Senate Judiciary Committee had been scheduled to begin on November 7, and members of the Republican leadership had stated before the nomination that they aimed to have the nominee confirmed before Thanksgiving (November 24). It was announced that Miers had withdrawn her nomination on October 27, 2005."


The Miers selection came out of the blue. In this case, Sarah Palin was touted for months as potential for a shake up pick, someone who conservatives could get excited about. I remember posting in a Palin thread weeks ago on this site, calling her a "porn librarian" type, based on her looks. I watched every Alaska debate in 2006 and followed that race closely, with a large wager on Palin at nearly 4/1. Frankly, DUers love to condemn politicians who they know nothing about.

It's remarkable that we've never heard of Palin until a few days ago but now we can summarize her, dismiss the baby as belonging to someone else, and be positive how she'll fare during the campaign. Well done! :rofl:

The overall reaction is heavily favorable from conservatives. I see it on sports sites which are flooded with right wing white guys, praising the pick. My Republican friends are pleased but most of the ones who threaten a balanced perspective don't think it will help McCain.

There was another gem:

"For every voter who sees Pretty Sarah as embodying traditional Family Values, there are four who wonder..."

Oh really, a 4-1 ratio? That's worth another: :rofl:

That condemns itself. Nothing along those lines is 4/1, not remotely close. Mathematically inept.

I haven't been opening these threads lately. The examples during the primary were cattle call dribble. But I do take note that the only two I've sampled recently began with the same theme, "I knew all along..."

That's called a red board player. Someone who has all the winners once the payoff is on the tote board. It would be nice to announce ahead of time, like when you "knew" McCain would receive all the answers beforehand for that joint questioning session a couple of weeks ago.

We're going to win. It will be close, and due to situational influence. I understand that a favorable climate allows overflow of crap on this board, like this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
187. i do know this
there`s a lot of women who think she should stay home because she has a baby.
her husband is the one who will be taking care of the kids.

it seems to me that on one hand she`s the ideal liberated career woman and they are trying to portray her as the ideal republican values wife.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quidam56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
188. Plain Jane
I doubt she will make it to November....

www.caringbridge.org/visit/timmullins
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
189. Wikipedia: Thomas Eagleton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC