kerry's 91 vote, hasnt been brought up yet

[seabeyond]

they know this is the big one in kerrys past that he is going to have issue with the public on. geez i do, dont care, but havent heard from him why he voted the way he did. anyway, i am seeing they have this to throw out at him soon, like they did the swift boat. just a guess, a feel. gonna be to take him down before vote. feeling.........

kerry needs to be addressing and going articulately how he came to the decision to vote against bush, say it the way it is. if it was a dem protest say it, if he thinks it wasnt a good vote say it........what ever he needs to define his reasoning befor ebush andd their whores define kerry on this

whatya think

[JPJones]

1. Kerry voted against the B* resolution but co-sponsered

Sam Nunn's version of the bill. This is what he voted for:

Regarding United States policy to reverse Iraq's occupation of Kuwait

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That (a) the Congress is firmly committed to reversing Iraq's brutal and illegal occupation of Kuwait.

(b) The Congress authorizes the use of American military force to enforce the United Nations economic embargo against Iraq; to defend Saudi Arabia from direct Iraqi attack; and to protect American forces in the region.

(c) The Congress believes that continued application of international sanctions and diplomatic efforts to pressure Iraq to leave Kuwait is the wisest course at this time and should be sustained, but does not rule out declaring war or authorizing the use of force at a later time should that be necessary to achieve the goal of forcing Iraqi troops from Kuwait.

(d) The Congress pledges its full and continued support for sustaining the policy of increasing economic and diplomatic pressure against Iraq; for maintaining our military options; and for efforts to increase the military and financial contributions made by allied nations.

(e) The Constitution of the United States vests all power to declare war in the Congress of the United States. Congress will expeditiously consider any future Presidential request for a declaration of war or for authority to use military force against Iraq, in accordance with the following procedures:

[seabeyond]

3. so he voted against invasion of kuwait to get the iraq's out

what i hear with this, (and thank you for posting this) is kerry says the invasion was not a reason enough to go to war, will let iraq sit there in kuwait, rape and pillage and murder, adn we will implement an embrago.

my suggestion is this is gonna bite kerry in the ass hard. adn i would rather see him talk about it before the repugs do, cause really dont yawl think bush would have attacked him on this, and all this time they have not said a word. they have to be waiting to get closer to election time.

[JPJones]

5. Would you have been in favor of invasion if the Army

predicted 10,000 American casulties?


NARRATOR: Three days later, Schwarzkopf's chief planner, Colonel Joe Purvis, flew to Washington to brief the president and his aides. To Purvis, it was obvious the best option was to outflank the Iraqi defenses, but he and Schwarzkopf believed they only had enough troops to attack head-on. The computers predicted 10,000 casualties.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/script_a.html

This number was leaked. The battle plan changed, so the Administration knew the number of US casulties would be lower, but the only info we had was 10,000 US casulties. Would you have voted to send 10,000 US troops to their deaths?

Sen. SAM NUNN, (D) GEORGIA: I see no compelling reason to rush to military action. Of course, there are no guarantees on economic sanctions. There are also no guarantees on war. Where are the guarantees on war?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/script_a.html

Gen. COLIN POWELL: My thinking was that it would be great if sanctions would do the job because then we would avoid a war with unknown consequences, and therefore we should give sanctions as much of a ride as was politically possible.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/script_a.html

[seabeyond]

7. then jp jones, ........since we are looking at this a decade

and half after and all this didnt happen and bush got overwhelming support from the rest of the world and it was a successful "war" regardless of the hiway of death and ten year embargo the killed over 500,000 citizens.

this is the perception of a decade and a half.

it is not about what i support and what i dont, it is about how rove will use this and do we allow rove to go once again saying kerry is coward and wanted to let saddam stay in kuwait with an embargo against them, typical democrat dove behavior, is this who you want to protect you

this is not a personal expression.........this is a political strategy, kerry defining self before it is done for him. i simply see this as a significant attack by bushco

[JPJones]

8. Well then you might as well vote for B*

Cause your average American was too busy drinking and fucking their way through high school to pay attention in government class.

Kerry voted for the Nunn resolution to give sanctions time to work. You can't change the past.

[seabeyond]

10. why are you making this about me

?

[JPJones]

11. Because you are playing devil's advocate n/t

[seabeyond]

14. i am saying what the strong majority see with the war in 91

i am saying what i think bush is going to do with it

and you are telling me to vote bush, like i am a traitor, well hey dude you dont know sh*t about me obviously and i think it is crap you attack me instead of addressing the question i ask

[LynnTheDem]

12. "Successful"???

Look at these photos. Then explain how we were "successful".

http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt04.html

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/iraqgenocide/HighwayofDeath.html

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/pages/show_page.asp?7

It was like going down an American highway—people were all mixed up in cars in trucks. People got out of their cars and ran away. We shot them.... The Iraqis were getting massacred." —Pfc. Charles Sheehan-Miles

b]"We've blown away a busload of kids."—Unidentified platoon sergeant during March 2 assault.

"We're yelling on the radio, 'They're firing at the prisoners! They're firing at the prisoners!'—Specialist 4 Edward Walker, describing February 27, 1991, incident during ground invasion of Iraq.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27c/069.html

The UK Parliament commented on the Basra road massacre:

UK Parliament
House of Commons
column 1347

Hon. Members will know that I am not emotional about many subjects. But I suggest that, emotionally, we shall be haunted for a long time to come by what has happened in the last few weeks. We shall be haunted in particular by what occurred on the Basra road. That was done in the name of the American Congress and the British House of Commons.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199091/cmhansrd/1991-03-15/Debate-2.html

[seabeyond]

17. it is also obvious and simple to see why kerry voted against 87b

to iraq. and bushco went out and said he was flipflopper on it and that still sits with people that he voted for war and against 87b. you and i obviously know he voted in protest over rich tax cut, non funding of 87b..........adn was a protest vote and nothing to do with denying troops. k, cool, but he is still gonna lose votes cause bush defined him first

[LynnTheDem]

9. Really?

US State Department spokeswoman, Margaret Tutwiler, asked whether the US had any military plans to defend Kuwait, replied:

‘We do not have any defense treaties with Kuwait, and there are no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait.’

"But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

"The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction."

General Colin Powell:

"I think we could go to war if they invaded Saudi Arabia. I doubt if we would go to war over Kuwait."

[CityDem]

25. I am sorry

But the average american is not going to remember the Nunn amendment. And don't count on Wolf, Crowley or Woodruff to help remind them. At some point, Kerry will have to defend this vote and the media at CNN and Faux will not be his friend.

[still_one]

2. In 91 he wanted to give diplomacy more of a chance

before going to war

In the current war against Iraq he voted for giving the authority for the president to go to war, but only after all other diplomatic options had been exhausted

For the 87 billion aid for our troops, he supported the first bill which allowed everyone to share in the burden by not giving tax breaks while we were engaged in the war. That was defeated, and out of principle he voted agianst the bill which did gave 87 billion aid for our troops, but also allowed massive tax breaks, hence the hugh deficiet

[seabeyond]

4. thumbs up, yes to this

i know this and he has had a lot of splainin to do on this too. took up a good handful of months getting out exactly what he did on this and even still there are people that say he voted for war and against body armor.

my point, lol

[LynnTheDem]

15. Then keep it real simple

For them simple folk;

BUSH threatened to VETO the ENTIRE BILL. His OWN bill.

If BUSH didn't get what HE wanted and EXACTLY what HE wanted, then he would kill the entire bill and SCREW THE TROOPS.

Kerry voted to pay out the money for the troops IMMEDIATELY, and then discuss the reconstruction money separately.

The VAST MAJORITY of Americans AGREED.

ESPECIALLY the Republicans.

And there are lots of online news articles and polls to prove it.

[LynnTheDem]

6. bush 41 lied. Surprise. Not.

US State Department spokeswoman, Margaret Tutwiler, asked whether the US had any military plans to defend Kuwait, replied:

‘We do not have any defense treaties with Kuwait, and there are no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait.’

http://www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/example/gulf7307.htm

On July 25th, US ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, met with Saddam Hussein to discuss the coming invasion;

"But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

"The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction."

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

On July 31, two days before the invasion, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly testified before Chairman Lee Hamilton of House Foreign Affairs. Asked repeatedly if we would come to the defense of Kuwait if it were attacked, he insisted there was no obligation on our part to do so.

http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/02-19-98.html

---------------------

General Colin Powell:

"I think we could go to war if they invaded Saudi Arabia. I doubt if we would go to war over Kuwait."

bush and Powell a short time later claimed they had satellite photos (which remain classified to this day) showed more than a quarter of a million Iraqi troops massed on the Saudi border poised to pounce.

Excepta Florida-based reporter at the St Petersburg Times persuaded her newspaper to buy the same independently commissioned satellite photos from a commercial satellite to verify the Pentagon's line, she saw no sign of a quarter of a million troops or their tanks.

"The satellite pictures were so clear that at Riyadh airport in Saudi Arabia you could see American planes sitting wingtip to wingtip," Heller says. She took the photographs for analysis to two experts. "I looked at them with a colleague of mine and we both said exactly the same thing at exactly the same moment: 'Where are they?'" recalls Peter Zimmerman, a satellite expert at George Washington University.

'We could see clearly the main road leading right through Kuwait, south to Saudi Arabia, but it was covered with sand banks from the wind and it was clear that no army had moved over it. We could see empty barracks where you would have expected these thousands of troops to be billeted, but they were deserted as well."

http://foi.missouri.edu/polinfoprop/nocasusbelli.html


Sam Nunn was right. Kerry was right.

Actually, had the US just ONCE said DON'T DO IT to Saddam Hussein, the invasion wouldn't have happened. Hussein was a buddy of ours at that time, and was waiting on a huge pile of money from the US in loan guarantees.

But the US didn't say don't do it, they said hey whatever, not our problem. It's called green-lighting.

[seabeyond]

13. all the reasons and what transpired, my question

do yawl think bush is not going to use this. do you all think bush is leaving this alone. i cant see it. i am wondering why this hasnt been brought up yet

[LynnTheDem]

18. If he's that stupid

The REPUBLICANS voted AGAINST the bill, too.

THEN bush threatened to veto the entire bill.

Bush forced them into voting for the bill/

And now we find out that NONE of that reconstruction money has yet been spent...only we don't know where it is.

Dunno that bush wants to go there.

[seabeyond]

19. if they create the story first, doesnt matter what the truth is

look at what the truth of vietnam record is. they created a whole false story without any support, now kerry is having to try to pull people away from a story they are telling themselves over to facts. that is tough. people go with the first story. so kerry says first, go thru say clearly

hell ya they are going to go here. they arent afraid, they are the most brazen crooks and liars i have seen ever,.........even beats my brother in lieing and that is a feat

[FrenchieCat]

16. You are right in saying that Kerry

will have to find some way of finessing this fact before the RW decides to amplify his vote and make it an issue. Kerry needs to stay way ahead of the RW, who will use this bit of information when they feel the timing is right.

It really won't matter what the explaination is.....as it never does.

What will matter is how Kerry is able to massage this issue to squash the attackers' message and defuse any problematic opinion on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was brought up in a speech or two during the RNC Convention.

I hope that John Kerry isn't going to act like it never happened until he is hit in the head with it by the opposition, and I hope that his team is ready for that.

We shall see.

[LynnTheDem]

20. Keep it simple

For the simple folk.

"Kerry voted as the vast majority of Americans wanted. Unlike bush, Kerry LISTENS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.'

[LynnTheDem]

21. By the way...

"simple folk" = rightwingnuts, not you guys, lol!

[LynnTheDem]

22. or...

The vast majority of American people opposed bush's bill.

Unlike bush, Kerry LISTENS to the American people.



and



Bush used our troops as BLACKMAIL for his own unpopular agenda.



and



Bush held our troops for ransome.

[seabeyond]

23. this isnt about what we say once bush puts out kerry is dove

wishy washy ect.............

this is kerry saying loud and clear now, so we dont have to try mopping it up afterwards like we are doing all along the way

[seabeyond]

24. kick