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After reading DU tonight, I offered congratulations to my Republican coworkers on their victory.

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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:41 AM
Original message
After reading DU tonight, I offered congratulations to my Republican coworkers on their victory.
Thursday night, this election was ours to win.

We were focused on the stark differences between what has happened in the last eight years and what will happen once Obama is elected President. We were ready for a new type of politics. We were proud of our nominee and proud of the running mate he chose, and over the course of the convention we had regained the spirit of unity and the faith that our message would resonate throughout the country.

But when I woke up yesterday afternoon, things looked very different.

It is obvious that John McCain's choice of Governor Palin as his running mate was pandering, both to women and to the conservative base of the Republican party. In that, it was a better choice than even Mike Huckabee could have been, with the added bonus that Governor Palin had said very little about her policies on record -- she can invent herself as the campaign goes. And it was bait.

Bait which I have seen taken by many people on this forum hook, line, and sinker.

There are many reasons why McCain/Palin is a much worse ticket than Obama/Biden when you look at policy and experience. Palin even flip-flopped on the fabled "Bridge to Nowhere" -- first supporting the project, then saying that since Congress wouldn't pay for it all that it shouldn't be done, and then in her acceptance speech today saying that "In fact, I told Congress thanks, but no thanks, on that "bridge to nowhere." If our state wanted a bridge, I said, we'd build it ourselves." That's a far cry from her press release which said "Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it’s clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island." She would have been perfectly happy to have the bridge if Congress would have paid for it, unlike what she is saying now. There is the ethics scandal which has not yet finished its investigation, despite her claims of wide-sweeping ethics reform in Alaska. Let's see how long it takes her to decide that John McCain is right about tax breaks to oil companies after deciding to tax oil industries strongly in Alaska, generate a surplus, and give that money back to the people.

Instead of looking at those issues, however, we took the bait.

Yes, she's brought up the fact that she is a woman in politics, with a family, religious, and pro-life. And that was the bait.

It doesn't matter that many conservatives feel that a mother's primary job should be being a mother, and so by taking on the second-most demanding job in the world she is betraying that ideal and therefore being a hypocrite. We are being hypocrites if we want equal pay for equal work, family and medical leave, and no discrimination against women who are pregnant, nursing, or raising a family, but would even consider the fact that she has five children in deciding whether she is qualified to be vice-president.

It matters even less that Dr. Laura's "I am my kids mom" meme is viral among social conservatives, and so by choosing to pursue the second-most demanding job in the world instead of primarily being "her kids mom" she is betraying that ideal and therefore being a hypocrite. We are being hypocrites if we say we believe that a woman can have both a career and a family and do well at both, but would even consider judging her parenting because she also wants to have a career.

It really, truly does not matter in the slightest that she has chosen to have a child later in life when having children later in life increases the risk of Down's Syndrome, and uses the fact that she did not choose abortion when presented with a poor prenatal diagnosis as a demonstration of her true pro-life stance. This is a point you can't even call her a hypocrite on, because she has walked her talk. She is married (to a man), many religious social conservatives believe that the purpose of the marriage bed is to conceive children, the whole pro-life message is that if a child is conceived that it should be given every chance to live no matter what, and that a handicapped child is just as worthy of that protection as a "normal" child. It doesn't matter that she wants to take away from a woman the choice to make a different decision in family planning than she did. We are being hypocrites if we judge her choices about family planning when we want the right to make our own decisions.

We cannot be hypocrites if we want to win this election.

There's one other thing that we can't do if we want to win this election, and I don't even think McCain considered that we might do so when he chose Governor Palin to be the bait for all of the above.

We can't stoop lower than the Republicans and PUMAs by conspiracy theories, tinfoil-hattery, suggestions of sexual scandals, and bringing relatives who aren't running for election into the picture.

It is totally shameful and ludicrous that people latched on to the idea that Barack Obama is a closet Muslim, schooled by a madrassa, with a falsified birth certificate and not technically a citizen because while he was a minor his mother married a man from Indonesia, moved there, and the man adopted him. It was ludicrous for anyone to believe that Michelle Obama is an unpatriotic reverse-racist who dragged Barack to the oh-so-horrible-and-reverse-racist-and-America-hating Trinity United Church of Christ church and went on a "whitey" rant on camera. Yet people believed (and sadly, some still do believe) that all of that is true based on innuendo, questionable sources, and no evidence.

But you know what's lower than that?

Suggesting that because Sarah Palin is a slender woman who didn't make it obvious that she was pregnant by wearing clothing that specifically emphasized her "bump", didn't immediately sound trumpets to call angels and media to witness that "Lo, a 40-something woman has conceived!", continued working throughout her pregnancy, went to a work-related function when she wasn't expecting to deliver her baby for another month, decided she could give her speech and not let the fact that she had just started leaking a small amount of amniotic fluid stop her from that when if needed she could be at a hospital within an hour or two, called her doctor after the speaking engagement to find out if she should go to the hospital down there immediately or if she could fly back home to have her own doctor deliver her child, with her doctor's permission decided to fly home to have her baby, and was back to work three days later, meant that her sixteen-year-old daughter who wasn't as slender as she was and had mononucleosis during the last months of her pregnancy had to be the actual mother of the baby.

Those who actually believe this tinfoil-hattery -- have you even considered that she conceived during her first term as the first governor of a conservative state and didn't want there to be a public impression that she couldn't continue to do her job as the state's chief executive? That she didn't want to deal with the possible backlash that she is dealing with now about her choice to be a mother and also have a career until she absolutely had to? That many women don't announce to the world that they're pregnant until the first trimester is over because the first trimester is when most miscarriages occur? That even if you are a "walk the talk" person when it comes to your pro-life stance that dealing with a poor prenatal diagnosis is gut-wrenching and that might have contributed to her desire not to advertise her fecundity? That not all women grow as big as a house during pregnancy, that women who "carry high" don't look as pregnant as those who "carry low", that Down's Syndrome babies often are low-birth-weight for gestational age, and that she didn't even get to full term???

That's not even getting into the medical management of her pregnancy. While I may not be a doctor, my ex-husband was an OB-GYN, and a slow leak of clear amniotic fluid is not nearly as immediate of a medical emergency as a gush of meconium-stained fluid. If you really want to get into the nitty-gritty on that I'll be happy to discuss it, but for now let's remember that most Democrats believe that a woman's medical care should be between her and her doctor and others should not second-guess it.

Yes, we are all disappointed that the accusations against John Edwards about having an affair were true, but just as in the Clenis-issues, the talk we have used is that an affair is not really the public's business. Yes, it sucked that he lied, but does that mean we shouldn't have given him the benefit of the doubt when the accusations came up, or that his affair would have made him a worse president? In my opinion, the answer to both of those questions is a resounding "No." Just because we are disappointed in the fact someone we trusted lied does not mean that all politicians lie and that all accusations against them are true.

In this case, the accusation is as much against her daughter as it is her -- a girl who never chose to run for public office, or make an issue of her moral authority. A child. Sure, it may fit the viwepoint of our party that abstinence-only education is a failure, but there is no proof of it, and until there is this kind of accusation is just as bad, if not worse, than suggesting that the grown wife of a presidential candidate is a rabid reverse-racist who went on a "whitey" rant.

And as for the person on here who asked if Down's Syndrome was more prevalent in "interfamily relationships"...

That is like suggesting that Chelsea was the one who wore the blue dress and Monica was framed to protect Bill.

We are Democrats. We are supposed to be the Good Guys. We are not supposed to be hypocrites. This is lower than even the Republicans and PUMAs have gone.

This is now our election to lose. And we will, if this kind of thing keeps up.

Please make me eat my words to my Republican coworkers. Please don't screw this up for Barack and Joe. Please don't screw this up for our country.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Holy concern, Batman!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. HAHA! truly.
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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Drama Queen!
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yawwwwwwwwwn

Please, stop the hysterical handwringing. There is no genius at work here. There is no master plan. There is no "bait." McInsane is a horrible, possibly senile candidate who made an equally horrible pick. End of story. I doubt any of your coworkers whom you congratulated looked too smug in response.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Did you say your republican coworkers?
Wow
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. A lot of Republicans work at the RNC n/t
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. We will lose the election because some people think Palin did a Desperate Housewives switcheroo?
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 AM by dkf
I think you are a tad bit overboard.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Oh please.
Elections are not lost based on DU posts. Hyperbole much?
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
71. Exactly.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Take a look at the Obama response. Palin is inconsequential. Obama is focused.
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 AM by mnhtnbb
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. YUp. K&R - But prepare for those telling you your opinion doesn't matter
It's the GDP way ya know....shoot the messenger.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Right. Let's lose with grace like we always do
we can live in a 3rd-world gulag for the next 4 years with our heads held high.

Go. away. now
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. wow you give panic a new meaning
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 11:53 AM by grantcart
the most hilarious part of your diatribe is the over importance you give to DU and other sites like it. A lot of material is going by and the gold nuggets will remain and they will reach the MSM in time.

This is a disastorous pick by McCain on so many levels.

It shows that he has a hair trigger. A ton of information will come out that they never knew about and McCain will have to answer for.

it takes the experience question away from Obama and people have to wonder what Palin would do if Pakistan attacks India and they head to a nuclear war, does she know where Kashmir is on the map?

And McCain just gave the big fuck you to all of the senior folks in the Republican Party who are a lot more qualified than Palin. Guys like Romney are going to sit home and let this ticket sink so that in 5 months they can start their campaign to become the new leader of the Republican Party.

I talked with two Republicans yesterday who said that was the final straw with McCain.


As for the dust up on the pregnancy - the enquirer will soon be on the story with their checkbook up but there is one fact that makes it seem possible - who in their right mind would be traveling to Texas at that time in the pregnancy and who in their right mind would take an extended trip away from medical facilities in Texas so that they can deliver in mid air. It doesn't make any sense unless of course the child was already born in Alaska. On the alternative though that she indeed start her labor in Texas then what does that say about her that she would climb on a plane to endanger a premature birth? Everyone knows that if you have a Premi you have to get to the hospital and incubate it as soon as possible, not take it on a plane.

edited for clarity
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Bwwahhhhaaahhhhhaa
You owe me a keyboard :rofl:

:hi: :hug:

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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Ah Shit Baby Girl I Owe You A Big Ole Hug
Love ya sunshine.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. love ya right back
and big ole hugs and wishes for all good things

:hug: :loveya:

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Merh...I Hope Your Safe And Prepared
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 01:45 PM by KharmaTrain
I won't forget your posts during and after Katrina and all you had to endure. I hope you're safe and won't have to endure those hardships again.

Cheers...
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
57. thank you for the well wishes and concern
I am prepared to leave and the house will be prepared as a house can be in these things.

me and the pups will take refuge and wait to see what remains if it comes this way.

the waiting and not knowing can be the hardest part of all of this.

thanks again :toast:

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I Remember Your Little Builder Guy
I was in NOLA in March and saw both the tremendous progress and still many areas that in Lakeview, the lower 9th and St. Bernard that were still full of trailers, rotting houses and empty malls.

Let's hope the worst of the storm dumps on a certain chicken ranch in Crawford...the Gulf Coast has suffered enough.

Please be safe...and remember there are those here who care and ready to help where we can.

:toast:
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
12. Oh, man.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Unless we're talking Student Council, she is an abysmal candidate.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. I wouldn't vote for her even then.
:rofl:
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oh for God's sake.
Get a freaking grip.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. lulz
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. Give me a fuggin' break and get over yourself.
:eyes:
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. mainly because half the people I was with believed it until I explained the situation to them
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. :)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
65. !
:thumbsup:

:rofl:
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. You are right about one thing
It is Obama versus McW. That focus should never waver. It would be a huge mistake for the Obama campaign to make it look like it is Obama versus Palin. Clinton made that mistake in 1992 when Quayle turned out to be such a dim bulb. Pappy made hay with the statement that it was the first time a presidential candidate from one party ran against the vice presidential candidate from the other party. Fortunately, Perot was in the race so it didn't cost the election. Except to show that McW made a rash, politically calculating pick that puts the country at risk, no mention of Palin should be made by the campaign. Keep up the rope-a-dope strategy and let them hang themselves.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. That's just plain silly n/t
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LongDistanceRunner Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. a Lie is a Lie
why are we suddenly flooded with 'concerned' folks now that Palin is crumbling?

I wonder....
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. Newcomer to politics, I'm guessing.n/t
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xfundy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wow. You seem 'concerned.'
Very, very 'concerned.' I feel your pain. Won't you feel mine? Pleeeeeeeeeez?
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. Your post deserves an award
for concern. :eyes:

sorry no deal. :boring:
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Most DUers only bother about feminism when it suits them.
They're nearly as happy as conservatives to launch sexist attacks on women they don't approve of.

Get used to it, I'm afraid, because it's not going to change.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. I see that you're being attacked by the usual krew
that over the primary season have turned DU into such an unpleasant place...

I think you raise a valid point. One thing that Karl Rove and the Republicans understand is that enough people vote emotionally to swing an election. They don't care about issues. The choice of Palin was an obvious pander to women who are pissed at the treatment Hillary Clinton, as a women, received during the primary. They will see the gender attacks on Palin as more of the same. And perhaps enough of them will base their vote on that to swing this election - that's the calculation Rove and company are making.

And, of course, Democrats are taking the bait.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Geez, what a load.
No, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thank you for wise words and courage under fire, Moriah.
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 12:25 PM by JohnnyLib2
Objectors on this thread might take note of the new Obama/Biden ad
in an earlier thread. High road.

(edit to acknowledge post 7 above, sorry)
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. Tuesday. Concern trolling happens on Tuesday now.
This is race baiting Saturday.

I'll be glad when we get back to that Sunday Pastorbating.

Nice.....
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. I agree we should not fall for the "baby scandal". I think it came out of a GOP boileroom.
I hope the mods start editing the threads that are filled with vicious gossip. It makes us look bad.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. The message I take away from this is...
That:

1. We should not question he qualifications, as she is a woman. To do so is taking the bait.

2. We should not question her purported recent motherhood, in spite of evidence to the contrary, as that would be taking the bait.

3. We should not question her stances, as that would be taking the bait.

4. That somehow, her chromosomal profile affords her political insulation.

I do believe I must prepare a cold compress for my forehead and lie down for a while now. I am feeling a but disoriented. I thought that this was DU. Let me leave you with this, however: True Equality amongst the sexes, when balanced against the recent John Edwards broughaha, seems to point to the acceptability of interest in her recent and putative gravid condition. We did not write the rules, we just have to play by them, or we are hamstringing ourselves.
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
60. Since your message was one of the few that actually addressed the issues....
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 03:26 PM by moriah
My opinion is this:

Question her qualifications all you want. But I do not believe the fruits of her womb are qualifications or disqualifications. Things like experience, record, policies, viewpoints... those are qualifications. Not how she chooses to parent or raise her family or how large she chooses her family to be. Dads can take care of kids, too.

As far as the purported motherhood issue, my point is exactly that -- evidence. I'm one of those weirdos who believes in getting proof before you make really awful accusations, and circumstantial evidence is often unreliable. For example, that's why I disagreed with the invasion of Iraq and all... no proof. The only evidence I've seen levied is circumstantial and pictures, but not all women show extremely much, even slender women -- get a picture of her at the same gestational age during one of the other four "purported" pregnancies to compare, at the very least.

You can question her views all you want. I will be right there with you, as I have some very significant issues with her policies, especially the pro-life issue. But perhaps you missed the thread, before it got locked, where someone said that they thought Palin choosing to have her child at a late age was selfish and wrong because of the increased risk of Down's Syndrome - that essentially she was to blame for her (in your view, purported) son's condition because of her family planning choices and therefore should get up off of her high horse. I feel that is a hypocritical argument that is only going to make us look bad, as the idea behind pro-choice is respect for an individuals choices, and because she would attract a great deal of sympathy if this is an attack tactic. Let's slam her on her extreme pro-life views that say the only abortion that should be allowed is a removal of a tubal pregnancy (or, at least, that is the view of Feminists For Life, the organization she belongs to), with no exception for the life of the mother or defects incompatible with life in the fetus. We know how she feels on Down's Syndrome, but I think getting her to say that she thinks a woman should not be allowed to abort a child with bilateral kidney agenesis, severe hydrocephalus that has completely destroyed the fetus's brain, etc, or other poor prenatal diagnoses that mean no chance or almost no chance of survival outside of the womb will be much more effective. Not to mention the idea that birth control pills cause mini-abortions.

And I'm assuming you're referring to her two X chromosomes and not the egg that had a malfunction during meiosis. Have you ever heard about a male presidential candidate being thought of as unable to do the job because he has young children? I haven't. And I really don't think these arguments would have come up if she were male. But even if she was male and it was her husband running, I would feel that the "purported pregnancy" thing was too low to touch, and would still feel the fact he had young children should not disqualify him from office.

My point is this -- debating her policies will be a much more effective tactic than making personal attacks. Making personal attacks likely will backfire. And no, we don't have to play by their rules. Obama hasn't. He has stayed away from personal attacks. He has discussed McCain's views on the issues. The McCain/Palin ticket is so weak on issues and policy that we *can* take the high road. But remember that there are a lot of conservative women out there who aren't very fond of McCain -- just like there are a lot of conservative men who don't like McCain. I see attacking her personally as being much more likely to mobilize those conservative women.

(Edit to post the second half of my reply, which was not directed at you, to the main thread.)
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. don't include me or anyone I talked with on this board in this
the threads I was reading had everything to do with her policies, her scandals, her ethics problems, and her attempt to stand-in for Hillary Clinton when she is in fact Patriarchal Barbie.

I don't know what threads you were reading, but you can always choose to read others.

People are angry -- all of my friends are more angry and more depressed by this choice than they have ever been. This woman sets feminism back into the dark ages. Everything she stands for and how she conducts herself is a slam to women who admire women like Hillary Clinton, whose policies are the reason we support her and admire her.

The only concern we should have is underestimating the capacity of stupidity and extremism combined with power-hungry greed, which she has in spades. We saw where it got Bush.

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that you shared your concern with your Republican co-workers. They needed more fodder for their grist mill? This kind of thing, frankly, is the reason Dems have failed in the past.

I'm not taking the bait and I'll criticize someone who flies in the face of all Reason and Compassion with every breath in my body and I don't care how low anyone goes. So far, though, there's plenty of issues-related things to complain about with this pick. I've never been so angry in all of my life. No, this person can't be the person who might take over for the ancient one. She wants creationism taught in schools. She's anti-choice. She kills animals from a helicopter. She tried to get the polar bear off the endangered species list.

NO THANK YOU to the dark side.



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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Hear! Hear!
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 02:03 PM by 1Hippiechick
:applause: :yourock: :woohoo: :headbang:


:yourock: :woohoo: :headbang: :applause:


:woohoo: :headbang: :applause: :yourock:


:headbang: :applause: :yourock: :woohoo:
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. can we start a revolution???? I'm on board! nt
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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. The revolution has already begun, friend. :) n/t
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. You are so right!!!! I was blinded by the Right
but now I see the light.

Is this their last ditch effort to ruin the light, the progress? Take it all down, in a steaming pile of shite called "conservatism"?

I am calling people to volunteer for Obama while I type. Oh, yes. I feel the revolution....I will NOT stand for this.



"Mission Accomplished" :hi: :hi: :hi:


:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. The OP is correct about one thing -- Palin is BAIT
Palin is bait one way or another. Don't take the bait! Ignore her. She's not an issue unless we make her one. Don't try to dig stuff up on her either. We can attack McCain on his poor judgment, even without any other material, real or not.

It seems Obama knows this too. Take a look at Obama's ad, "No Change" responding to McCain's choice.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/nochange_ad/
McCain's choice is a topic for under 2 seconds in the ad. Then the focus is squarely on McCain's poor judgment. This is really the perfect response. Isn't it?
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Murdock Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. It's over..
Obama/Biden was a nice dream, time to wake up to reality.

Congratulations to your Republican co-workers and mine. Reality is a cruel teacher, but it's fact. We've lost the 3rd consecutive election.

It makes me shudder to even think of it, but I cannot for the life of me even fathom Obama/Biden winning now.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I hope this is sarcasm.
I'm guessing so.

MPK
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
64. oops, I guessed wrong.
Bye.

MPK
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
40. No No No No NoNO. YOU are the one taking the bait. YOU are treating Palin different because she has
a vagina.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. I'm insulted at the thought you need to be easy on a woman.
That is the most patronizing thing that can be done to a female.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
42. I have no problem with her being a candidate except that
she stands for many policies I profoundly disagree with to my core AND she is not remotely qualified. Electing this team will set women back two generations.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
43. You know what's funny?
Yesterday, my Republican coworkers were congratulating me on our victory. One guy told me he always hated McCain, but due to Palin he hates him with more of a white-hot heat than at other times. :hi:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is a message board
nasty shit's gonna get said. can't control it with stern lectures or anything else.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
49. OMG we are SCREWN!!11!!!! THIS IS SERIES!!!!!1!!!!
:rofl:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
51. OH PLEEZE!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
53. GET OVER IT!
or go elsewhere
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RTFirefly Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
54. Obama/Biden didn't take the bait, and remain above the fray.
That's what matters. What is posted on an internet message board is inconsequential.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
55. Nah...Just the early signs of Dementia.....nice try.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
56. Please... save that drama for your mama... but still vote Obama (n/t)
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
61. Ever heard the expression "nice guys finish last?"
If Democrats can't compete against the Republican smear machine because we might offend someone, let's just pack it in now and not bother.
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Name removed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. Deleted message
(This is pasted from my response to the one person who actually seemed to be dicussing issues instead of personalities in their response, as this is not really directed to them.)

It's really damn funny how a person who signed up to this forum on August 22 decided to call me a "concern troll" -- I'll take that from people who have been here longer than me, but that makes me want to buy a new keyboard.

Since people have decided, however, to bring personalities even into this discussion when the entire point I was trying to make was that personal attacks are dumb and will backfire when going after the issues will work just as well, I'll go ahead and say exactly who I am, and you can feel free to look me up, look up where I work, look up where I've lived, and even find information about my father's half-nondomestic feline that was the result of a mating of a Persian and either a cougar or lynx, some mountain that that lives in the Appalacians.

My legal name is Crystal Feier. I live in Bentonville, Arkansas, I work for Hewlett-Packard supporting the Wal-Mart account, and if you look at Benton County demographics, you will see this is a very conservative county, whereas Washington County to the south of us is a college town and very liberal. I am originally from Little Rock, I moved to Queens, NY with my husband in 2002 and was present and active with protest groups as a legal observer through the run-up to the Iraq war. When our marriage died, I moved back home, a friend of mine recommended me for a job running cabling for Wal-Mart out on the road, and I've been working in that environment ever since.

I am the only person in the country named Crystal Feier as far as I can tell as Zabasearch and Intellius have never found another. If you look up my handle, Moriah, you will see that I am active on several discussion boards, including the West Memphis Three discussion board, Creditboards, their Politics First site, and a few others. You will see that I am Pagan and have been very against the war, advocated for Democrats and liberal values, etc.

There, is that going to be enough credibility where I can say my opinion without being accused of working for the RNC?
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
63. I agree
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 04:32 PM by goodgd_yall
There's plenty to attack this VP selection on. We don't have to be acting like self-righteous RWers by attacking Palin's personal choices as a mother (although, because of its reflection of her judgment, I think the flight while 36(?) weeks pregnant is fair game) or her daughter. Or making innuendos about things that you're just pulling out your asses. Besides, it's not effective.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
66. I live in red state and I shouldn't be coming here to fucking vent?
Why the hell come here at all if I can't get what's on my mind out in the open?

Look, you can bet that Mooseburger Momma is going to put up a fight. I'm tired of losing. I've been calling my friends about her "qualifications" and they are laughing and crying about her as well.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
67. Teh stupid! It BURNS!!!
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NatBurner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
68. i.n.r.a.t.s.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
progressiveforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
70. A little drama going on here
i thought this was where we could let loose........
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