WHEN the #%^$%@ is the ribbon story going to hit the nightly news?

[Perky]

Personally I have been seeing these threads for days. and I have seen nothing on the wires or on the tube. Whazzup?

[jackstraw45]

1. Corporate Media is worthless..if it was Kerry instead of Bush...

it would be the lead story on EVERY newscast.

[fob]

2. Maybe that's the tactic. Change the headline to "Kerry caught wearing

medal he didn't earn" and leave all the info from Walt unchanged, you know the media whores won't read past the title and maybe read it aloud before realizing it's backward?

[Perky]

4. Again

beyond the conspiracy theory rubbish.....why isn't the media picking up on this? Or at least a columnist?

[quaoar]

18. Y'all need a bit of patience

No newspaper worth a damn is going to print a story like that without having its own reporters check out the information for themselves. That's likely to take several days.

Actually, it would probably be ideal for that story to come out right after the convention.

[Walt Starr]

37. The ideal day would be next Thursday in the morning papers

:evilgrin:

[snyder]

3. The Story Is A Nothingburger

Incorrect wearing of unit ribbons just is not the big deal that people around here think it is. Not only that, but no one has verified whether or not others in Bush's unit were wearing the same ribbon back then. If you think the media is going to do the spadework on that one, think again. The media doesn't do any legwork on anything. They only take stories handed to them on a silver platter.

[Perky]

5. I thought that is what Walt did.... n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Then why did the SBV's slam Kerry

on his metals, if ribbons and metals aren't important? Even in the Boy Scouts, this sort of thing is very important. And I don't know a single boy scout, who would be caught dead, wearing a badge or anything that he didn't earn.

[dweller]

12. the *moron ain't no Boy Scout

damn, come to think of it, he's not much of anything but a miserable failure.


oh, and a *moron.

dp

[TrueAmerican]

7. I'm in an agreement with Snyder

This could be just an innocent mistake. Most of the time when a AFOUA is awarded to the unit the noification is made at a commander's call or thru email nowadays.

Someone might of gave Dubya some bad information (doesnt that sound familiar)from his buddies in the guard.

This is an award which is something to be proud of when earned, but it is not a medal that is presented to you directly from the squadron commmnader like an Achievement Medal or higher.

Sorry, but I don't think this story is going anywhere.

[Onlooker]

19. The media decides what's a story

Many times the media takes a minor incident and makes it into something bigger. The media may choose to use the ribbon story as an angle to compare there own treatment of Kerry's ribbon story or may use it as an angle to explore Bush's maturity as a member of the NG or may use it as an angle to press Bush to release more records. In and of itself, the ribbon story may not be a big deal, but as a piece of news that allows them to explore other matters it could be quite useful.

[maine_raptor]

8. well I suppose that the issue

of whether or not Kerry thew medals or ribbons was no big deal either/

[SpiralHawk]

9. Wrongo - In the realm of truth

these facts as developed by Walt Starr and others are in fact a Major SomethingBurger. They further establish Bush's pattern of hiding and falsifying his past -- in particular his military service. Since military service is the Battle Royal at this stage of the campaign, it is only fitting and fair that Bush's record undergo the same microscopic public dissection as Kerry.

That makes it a SomethingBurger Supremo, for those interested in fairness.

While you are enjoying your NothingBurger, you will no doubt want to wash it down with yet another cup of kool aid.

[snyder]

10. Look, I'd Love It If People Cared

But they're not going to. This is a unit citation, and there's no evidence that Bush did anything different than everyone else in the unit did. This simply is not the smoking gun you think it is. Not even close. Sorry.

[fob]

14. You obviously missed part of Walt's work. NO ONE in bush*s unit

was wearing that award because the unit didn't earn it/get awarded it until 1975!!

If others were wearing it they were all full of shit! And like Walt said for those that think this is no big deal, go ahead and buy a POW medal, pin it on and take a stroll down to your local VFW hall. When you get asked when/where you earned it, go ahead and tell them the truth, you didn't you just bought it and felt like it looked cool. See how "unimportant" this is.

After that read up on the guy that KILLED HIMSELF when it was discovered he was wearing a medal he didn't earn (google: Boorda).

Then you can look for the thread around here about the Navy sending out a correction to Kerry's DD-214 saying that they listed his Silver Star with a Combat "V" in error. A Silver Star does not get a Combat V attached it is part of the Silver Star itself and see how the freeps are out of their minds that Kerry is open for a felony charge for this even though it was a Navy record problem.

[snyder]

16. Where Are Walt's Pictures of The Others?

As for the rest of your message, you need to remember that a unit ribbon is completely different from an individual decoration. This is not a technicality.

[fob]

21. Lt Strawman has nothing to do with it! It doesn't matter if others were

wearing a medal 3-5 years BEFORE it was awarded it's still wrong and possibly more.

So you're saying bush* should have gone and just bought every unit ribbon/medal available at the base store and just pinned em on, no problemo?

I think your "Poverty numbers hurt Kerry" thread is all I need to know about where you're coming from. It's a creative way to get repub talking points in a post, but you get no credit for bs here.

[snyder]

27. The Missing Piece of Research Here

is whether or not others in Bush's unit at the time were wearing that ribbon. We don't know whether or not they were. Beyond that, people here are missing the difference between a unit citation and a personal medal. They are worlds apart. I don't think an inappropriately worn unit citation is going to matter.

[fob]

41. Obviously you don't read anything I write so I will just add this...

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[Mixxster]

25. Help!!! "thread around here about the Navy sending out a correction...

...to Kerry's DD-214 saying that they listed his Silver Star with a Combat "V" in error."

My star has still not been reinstated and I can't find that thread. I need it for use on another forum. Can someone PLEASE post a link to it. Thanks.

[SidDithers]

32. Kerry's DD-215 did not correct his Silver Star with V...

It added unit awards, and corrected one other medal (added 4 bronze stars to it i believe).

Sid

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD-215_Correction.pdf

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Wrong. You try wearing a medal you didn't earn into a bar full of vets.

Vets take medals and ribbons seriously. They will downplay their own heroism, but don't like anybody cheapening or devaluing the honor of medals.

Of course, hard core rightists will give Bush all kinds of latitude and not change their opinion of him. However, this will trouble many in the military and their extended families who are worried about the war in Iraq and Bush Neo-Con imperialism.

[snyder]

28. It's NOT A Medal

You really need to understand the difference between a unit citation and a medal. They are very different from one another.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. I know it is not a medal. That is why I wrote "medals and ribbons". Read

[Fleshdancer]

11. the story wasn't completed until yesterday

give it time.

[Spazito]

15. I agree!

I believe it is "percolating", no media will run with it raw, they will investigate and re-investigate Walt's work first as it is a serious charge. It is more than a little interesting that Blitzer brought up bush's NG record, it is the start, imo. Dribbles first then the drops cumulating in the flood.

Edited to correct bad spelling error, oops

[mbee]

13. Send it to Bill Moyers and Lou Dobbs as both of them

are pretty straightforward in my book. I know Moyers would cover it for sure.

[Perky]

17. I will check back in a month when this thing is still

percolating.

I am just tired of playing Charlie Brown to Lucy and that damn football..

[Doohickie]

23. How many "leads" do you suppose

Moyers and Dobbs receive every day from someone who has an agenda to promote? No media outlet is going to run this story unless they are sure it will stick. There are still too many potential holes in it.

Even though Walt said the unit got the award after Bush served with them, there were also mentions made of two other times the unit supposedly won the award that did not show up in Walt's "official" source. If it turns out that the unit did, in fact, receive the award prior to Bush's service, and suddenly all his contemporaries from that unit are wearing the ribbon in their photos because they were told to, then the whole story becomes much ado about nuthin' much.

The SBVT got press because they were buying advertising. It wasn't so much that the media covered them because of what they said or whether they were right, but simply because they were on the media already, in the form of advertising. Perhaps if Walt could arrange some sort of organization that would run ads, the media would cover this story, too.

This web site is not a media outlet; it is (from the standpoint of the news media) a rumor mill with a lot of disaffected people who have axes to grind.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. Anything touching a sitting president has to be vetted very very carefully

No responsible media will run a story about a sitting president without checking out six ways past Sunday. Lower standards apply to everyone else. This is normal and to be expected.

As others have pointed out, there may be some innocent explanation. They will contact the Whitehouse to get their explanation. The Whitehouse is busy and will not be anxious to get back to them right away, but will get back just in time to forestall them. So the media will do more research while they wait for a more definitive response.

[dogman]

24. I wonder if this story was vetted?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x680049

[Democat]

26. Are you joking or did you miss the entire Clinton presidency?

I can only guess that you are being sarcastic?

The media ran every rumor about Clinton on the front page - they didn't research anything on their own, just relied on right wing press releases. The entire media printed any unfounded allegation against Bill Clinton, a sitting president, as fact.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. You miss the difference. They reported public figures making rumors.

Get a public figure to state Walt Starr's story in public, and it would be reported in an instant.

[grasswire]

35. well, yes

If a public figure were to call a press conference to talk about the unearned medal, THEN it would be everywhere.

That's exactly what the LA Times reporter told me. Unless Dems want to make news, it will go unreported.

[Doohickie]

36. "...just relied on right wing press releases."

Exactly. Has anybody released this to the press???

[John_H]

29. LOL! People sign up to DU just to tell us what a non-story this is.

seems like a lot of trouble for a non-issue, but yet here they are-- people who made their first post on this topic and, whadya know, ONLY seem post on this topic.

Let's make a deal: if this story breaks all the Repukes agree to get off their first cousins for a couple of hours, take the bus to the county dental clinic and get some ceremonial bridgwork in Walt's honor. We agree not to gloat too much.

[Doohickie]

39. Huh??

seems like a lot of trouble for a non-issue, but yet here they are-- people who made their first post on this topic and, whadya know, ONLY seem post on this topic.

Simple reason why I've never posted here before: I never heard of the site before I read about this issue on Metafilter.

Let's make a deal: if this story breaks all the Repukes agree to get off their first cousins for a couple of hours, take the bus to the county dental clinic and get some ceremonial bridgwork in Walt's honor. We agree not to gloat too much.

Huh? You know, this is not about Democrats and Republicans; this is about whether or not this is newsworthy and whether Walt's conclusions are a stretch or if they're justified. I'm not a "Repuke"; I'm I life-long Democrat. My dad served in public office as a Democrat.

One of the things I hate about Republicans is the way they uncritically accept anything that supports their leadership as gospel. They seem like a bunch of brainless zombies and don't use their heads.

Is that what you want the Democratic Party to become? A bunch of goose-stepping left wingers who can't think for themselves?

I think Walt is right in the basic assertion that Bush had no right to wear the unit ribbon in question. But I am still not convinced that being photographed with that ribbon in any way impugns his character. The explanation could be as simple as the unit had previously won the award and instructed their members to wear the ribbon. Now if we go and try to make a big huge issue out of this and it turns out it was a common practice in his unit, we have lost all kinds of credibility. Then next time you come out with something that may be more substantiative, people will say, "Oh, it's just those left-wingers again trying to make mountains out of mole hills" and they won't even read later articles.

Personally, rather than trying to use this information to discredit Bush directly, I would simply send it to the Kerry campaign. I would love to see Bush's face if he never heard about this issue and Kerry zapped him with it during a debate. Even if he had a reasonable excuse to wear the ribbon, I bet he would freeze up and then some real damage would be done.

Don't be like the Repukes and make everything black and white and you're either with us or against us. That produces cohesion but ultimately leads to group-think that results in very poor policy decisions.

Instead, you should be considering the objections and questions people are raising to determine if this is an issue that is truly worthy of muster.

So, Walt, with all of your research prowess, do you think there is any way you can identify some of Bush's contemporaries in the unit and determine whether they were pretty thin on awards also (maybe as a champagne unit, they realized everyone was just putting in time and didn't bother with the paperwork required for awards), and/or whether any of his contemporaries wore the ribbon in question in their portrait photos?

If I were a Repuke, that would be the most obvious course of action to take to repudiate your claim that this is a blemish on *'s integrity.

You bring up an interesting issue. The best way to make it stick is to answer the other side's objections before they can even ask them.

[PfcHammer]

33. ** BUSH MEDAL STORY FLYER **

Bypass the media filter and spread the story yourself !

http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/GWBAward.pdf

[grasswire]

34. It will percolate, but the SPY story is bigger

...and it's going to grab the headlines.

[Doohickie]

40. Bush's ace in the hole

Unfortunately, I can see how Bush could turn that to his advantage, believe it or not. If Cheney volunteers to be the next Ollie North and falls on his sword for Bush, taking all the blame, then Bush is free to switch running mates without appearing disloyal.

[Walt Starr]

38. Update to the story here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x681285

[Scorpious_Maximus]

43. Direct Question for Walt

Hey Walt, I've taken this and sprinkled it elsewhere on a few other boards where I am the rabble rouser.

One guy came back at me that the picture is in black and white and there is no way to tell what the ribbons really are.

Also, one is questioning the date of the photo.

I think you've done tremendous work, but how confident are you in the results?

Are there any potential holes in this for Shrub to weasel out of?



I would also like to thank whomever here at DU emailed my station with the "Medals Thread" :kick:


The LOCAL MEDIA BLASTER IS A HIT!!! :loveya:

Thanks,


- jb

[Apple Smoothie]

42. Have I missed something?

Who did Walt Starr end up talking to??