In the Vietnam era, no one ever blamed drafted military

[Cleita]

personnel for deserting, going AWOL, or otherwise refusing to partake in blood sport. However, enlisted guys like Kerry and Bush were held to a higher standard. This is where Georgy fails the sniff test. This actually brought us to the voluntary military.

So, where do we go from here? I couldn't blame any of these voluntary military of doing the same thing for another unjust war.

[Columbia]

1. Neither Kerry nor Bush were enlisted

They were officers

[Cleita]

2. Okay maybe I don't get the difference, but

I don't think either of them were drafted into the army, (Pvt. Whom?) which means they volunteered somewhere along the line, putting them where they were.

[Columbia]

3. True

[radar]

6. As I Understand It...

Bush didn't even have to go thru any Officer Candidate training before his appointment.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5577.htm

"After he completed only six weeks of basic airman training, Bush received a commission as a second lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard. This was by means of a 'special appointment' by the commanding officer of his squadron, with the approval of a panel of three senior officers. This 2nd Lt. commission was extraordinary, since it normally required eight full semesters of college ROTC courses or eighteen months of military service or completion of Air Force officer training school. It was so unusual that Tom Hail, the Texas National Guard historian, told the Los Angeles Times that he "never heard of that" except for flight surgeons."

[Cleita]

20. No wonder Bush considers himself royalty.

I guess that silver spoon he was born with, hasn't been removed to this day.

[jdj]

5. Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam

Bush checked the 'no' box, and went into TANG, in front of hundreds of other more qualified (point system) people thanks to Daddy, to avoid going.

THEN he deserted.

[Kanary]

4. Not only wouldn't I "blame" them for doing the same......

I've wondered why, given the level of unrest and distrust in the troops there, why it hasn't happened in large numbers.

vetwife says there's too high a price to pay. Seems to me, so is death and horrible, permanent injuries.

Kanary :shrug:

[Columbia]

7. You have to play the numbers

100% chance of ruined career & difficulty finding a job for the rest of your life

vs.

Very small chance of getting killed or injured

[Kanary]

12. *I* wouldn't have to play any numbers......

It's a no-brainer for me, as it was for many in my generation.

What they do is up to them.

Kanary

[Columbia]

13. Sorry, just being rhetorical

I meant "one" has to play the numbers.

[OHswingvoter]

8. I went. and whenever

anyone asks me for advice about enlisting and maybe going to war my advice is Dont Go. I would advise doing whatever you have to do to not go and support people who do not do it all the way. If I had the moeny and connections sure I would have used them to stay here. And I don't blame anyone else for doing so. They were the smart ones it turned out.

What you go through in war is never worth it. If people knew they would never want to go. I could never send anyone else either.

[jdj]

9. Thanks for your service.

j.

[OHswingvoter]

10. I appreciate it.

-OSV

[Cleita]

11. Yes, thank you for your service.

I really thought this would have been over with by the end of Vietnam.

[OHswingvoter]

16. thank you.

it is hard to have the past dragged up in the ads all the time. I would like to see us focus on other things like how bad the Bushes have been for the economy. because I know the war brings up old pain for a lot of people including me. but sometimes we just have to get through things the best that we can.

[Kanary]

14. YEs, thanks for your service, and I hope that you have opportunity

to talk with young people. You have wisdom they need to hear.

I was very fortunate, as I've mentioned on DU before, to have an elderly neighbor many years ago who fought in WWI. He told me about all the stars in their eyes as they marched off to "glory", and how disgusted they were on their return. Same generation after generation, and at some point, people need to speak out so the younger ones learn this from their elders, rather than the hard way.

"I could never send anyone else either."

You sound like a person I could vote for!

:hi:

Kanary

[Columbia]

15. Where did you go?

[OHswingvoter]

17. Thank you all.

I am lucky because I came back still OK physically. My best friend is a paraplegic. He lives near me and a bunch of us helped him redo his home so that he can do some stuff. He is a bitter and angry man whose life has been ruined. I am lucky. All my scars are inside.

I had a good job at the Ford Plant in Lima until it closed under Bush 1. The Bushes have done me lots of economic damage. Hurts me almost as bad as what I went through in the war. We have to get rid of them so that people can Live Good again.

[vetwife]

18. War never solves anything but desertion under this administration

would very well get you jailed or possible death. A very high price.
I would never encourage one to go into the military but I would never encourage one to desert once they are there. If they could muster out with the aide of a congressman or obtain an honorable discharge especially medical that is one thing, but once you are in there, you are the property of the U.S. Government and they own you.
That is the agreement that is signed when you enlist. I think more people should talk to vets and stay away from recruiters.
WELCOME HOME VETERANS !
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE !

[OHswingvoter]

19. I agree. That is why I tell people not to

enlist. I have never advised anyone to desert. I tell young men that they should get a job or go to school and not think of the military as an option. But right now it is a volunteer system. If we have a draft, things will get very scary for a lot of people who will be faced with tought decisions.

[skygazer]

21. I don't blame anyone for avoiding the war

However, I do blame people like Bush and Cheney who actively pursued deferments or got into the NG yet still vocally supported the war. That spells hypocrite to me.