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Ugh. I'm becoming a convert to the "media are the enemy" school.

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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:25 PM
Original message
Ugh. I'm becoming a convert to the "media are the enemy" school.
Edited on Thu Aug-26-04 08:29 PM by BillyBunter
Some evidence that the media, not George Bush, should be the real targets of our efforts:

Bruni: I think he knows more than we give him credit for knowing. The biggest myth about George W. Bush is that he's not a smart man. He's a very smart man. He's smart, though, in ways that are not as easily measured and communicated. He's not somebody who is extraordinarily learned in the book sense. He doesn't access information easily, he doesn't speak eloquently, but he does have a sort of gut intelligence, and I think he's more attentive than, than we give him credit for being.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/100days_brunimoran.html

This comes from Frank Bruni, the New York Times "journalist" who covered Bush's 2000 campaign. It was written before 9/11, so there is no "rally around the flag" excuse -- it's just plain ass kissing. He later wrote a fawning book on Bush, titled Ambling Into History, and currently serves as the restaurant critic of the Times (perhaps the Times realized he could do less damage there). Bruni's coverage of Bush was truly revolting during the campaign, almost entirely without criticism, and much of the criticism he did level was soft peddled. And the Times is the liberal paper -- something to keep in mind. After reading this, and some other pieces by Mr. Bruni, I suspect it is in part to him that we owe the pleasure of the current occupant of the White House.


By the way, can anyone tell me what the phrase "He doesn't access information easily" means? It sounds like code for "he's stupid," but Bruni specifically says Bush is "smart." I wonder if Mr. Bruni, in his current role, would write something like, "The Wild Rice with Curry at India House is an excellent dish. It is over-seasoned, the rice is soggy and undercooked, and the presentation is poor, but it has that certain something."
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm a recent convert as well...
I'm convinced they are more to blame than Bush. He wouldn't get away with 90% of his bullshit if they didn't let him.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Tin foil time/sarcasm time
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. What "He doesn't access information easily" means is--
--that he is a pig-ignorant fucktard, and proud of it. That is way worse than stupidity, which can't be helped. Ignorance is a choice.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bush doesn't access information easilty in the same sense that
I don't access a billion dollars easily. Or oil doesn't access water easily.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. You really didn't believe that the media are the enemy until now?

DId you not watch how they treated Gore in 2000??? ( Not meant as an attack if you didn't, just asking if you watched and didn't think they were so bad, or just didn't watch. )
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't watch TV, and was working 60-80 hours a week
in 2000. So unfortunately, there's a lot of stuff from that period I missed, and am only catching up on now.

And no, I didn't believe the media are the enemy. I still don't, and in fact, should not have used that phrase: it's counterproductive. The media are an object, and we have to figure out how to use them to our advantage. It's just that I begin to suspect they are positioned in such a way that it's more difficult for us to use them than it is for the other guy. That simply means we have to work smarter and harder. :-)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. That would do it -- and it's primarily TV that was so biased.

If it were not for TV, I'd be thinking everything was going great for Kerry. But the polls are close, even when he's leading, and the media are, in general, too favorable to Bush*. It worries me because people with little time tend to flick on the tube for news and if they're not fully committed to Kerry or Bush* but leaning to Kerry, the media could lure them away from Kerry. That's why I think Kerry must speak out more against Bush*, in ways that will get HIS message on the air, not his response to a Bush* ploy.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Good clarification.
"The media are an object, and we have to figure out how to use them to our advantage."

I agree, and it's one of the things that slightly annoys me with some of the "blame the media" talk around here. I mean, the TV news media is obviously working against us but I don't think that is something we're going to change anytime soon. The media is a system that feeds on sensationalism and dumb, simple, easy to digest ideas. It is all about surface perceptions over substance. So the question for the short term becomes not "how can we change the media" but "how can the campaign PLAY the media like a fiddle" DESPITE the huge bias in our opponent's favor.

Initially I wasn't convinced that Kerry knew how to do this and, egged on by some of the many criticisms expressed here, I started to really worry that we are witnessing a repeat of Gore's not-so-savvy campaign. But in the past couple of weeks I have gained a little more hope and faith in Kerry and his campaign. Hopefully he truly does have a chess-master-esque plan that will take us all by surprise in the coming weeks. It would all be fun and exhilarating to watch if there weren't so damn much riding on this election.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. He doesn't access information easily.......................
I think that's a nice way of saying he doesn't read anything put in front of him, like PDB's and inconsequential stuff like that. He lives in an intellectual vacuum.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. You got that right
Edited on Thu Aug-26-04 08:38 PM by depakote_kid
we may not agree on all that many things- but we sure agree on this one. The corporate media has it in for Kerry and he's not going to get many breaks that he and his campaign doesn't make itself.

Yet they'll fawn over Bush non-stop and actively conceal his record from here until November.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. to be fair, there are several different KINDS of "smart"
we lump together a number of different concepts together and call them all by the same set of terms: smart, intelligent, etc., or, lacking them, stupid, dumb, etc.

gore and clinton and kerry are all "book" smart, or smart in the traditional academic sense of the word. these are people who would succeed in school, do well on written tests, and so on.

another type of smart is "street" smarts, which is more what we call "common sense". by reputation, at least, einstein was not very "street" smart, hence the stereotype of the "absent-minded professor". it's quite possible to be academically gifted and yet fairly stupid when it comes to routine daily living stuff.

mrs. unblock puts me in this category on a regular basis. i could do a dissertation on the propagation of fashion trends through a population, but i can't figure out which shirt goes with these pants.

more politically relevant, bush is very shrewd politically. one could say that he's aided by rove and a compliant media, but this begs the question. the point is that he's savvy enough to know that he CAN get away with exactly what he's doing.

think about it. who honestly would have thought that he could get away with campaigning on being a moderate and squeaking into office in a disputed election, and then immediately veering hard right, much further right than anyone before? bush was smart enough to know that the media would cooperate. and of course, he's smart enough to feed the media what they want. they get a steady stream of nationalistic and moralistic imagery, and when the want to balance it, they get a steady stream of harmless gaffes.

some academic once categorize intelligence, i think they identified 6 different types. main point is that it's possible to be an absolute moron in some types of intelligence and strong or even genius in another type of intelligence.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Interesting post.
I have a couple of quibbles, and one major beef.

Gore was actually not that great a student, as I recall. I think he flunked out of divinity school, for example, and his grades generally weren't so hot (if someone knows better, please correct me). The only reason I bring this up is that I hate seeing certain stereotypes that help the other side maintained, and the idea that left wingers are book smart, but lack common sense, is one of the stereotypes out there.

some academic once categorize intelligence, i think they identified 6 different types. main point is that it's possible to be an absolute moron in some types of intelligence and strong or even genius in another type of intelligence.

I would argue that Bush is pretty damn dumb in raw intellect based on what I've seen, which, according to this, would tend to put a definite cap on how smart he could be in other areas.


My major beef isn't with you or your post, but with the idea that intellect can take a back seat to other forms of "intelligence," and that Bush has those. I look at the last four years, and it seems to me that everything Bush has done has been unimaginative and unsuccessful, yet here we are. Shouldn't the country be drawing certain conclusions about the value of intellect at this point?
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. i don't disagree
and i'm not saying bush is a supragenius in any form of intelligence. i'm just implying that, while he might be dumb as a post when it comes to academic smarts, he's better in other areas. for instance, he's at least above average in social intelligence.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. He's a sociopath.
That's not exactly social intelligence. But it does require an ability to manipulate people. A cute three year old can manipulate people.

He's smart enough to take every advantage of his family name. That's about the extent of it.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Trouble is that half of this assbackward country believes
that the Earth is 3000 years old, and knows it doesn't want to be left behind come Rapture Day. Where does Kerry even BEGIN in trying to relate to that half?
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. He can't.
Any more than Bush can relate to the part of this country that believes in socialism and the like. But there are people in the middle of those extremes who can be appealed to.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. All major media outlets are corporations.
All corporations exist for one reason: to make more money. CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, Time, Newsweek etc. don't exist to supply news to you - they exist to make money. If the GOP allows them to eliminate smaller competitors and become monopolies - great. If their writers can parrot the RNC party line, thereby generating more copy to fill print & airspace - so much the better.

There are very few real journalists left in America. If you want to know whats really going on you have to dig for it yourself.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Shit rolls downhill
Welcome to the valley. :-)
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Didn't Clinton say many of the same things about *?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Pretty much. He said he was very astute politically and

shouldn't be underestimated.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Just think,
if we had a media that provided true fair and balanced coverage then Shrub and his gang would likely be in jail right now. If not that, then his approval ratings would probably be in the low 20's or less. It's because of our media that this race is tight. It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it.
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. Teach people how to break from passive media
One of the things I try to do is get people to actively seek info rather than accept it passively. Teach search engine techniques. Especially those who send right wing emails that are easily debunked. I go ahead and debunk, but also chide them nicely about how easy it is to at least go to Kerry debunker, or Snopes, etc.

"Don't be lazy and just accept this. There is a lot of deliberate disinfo going around." etc. Nobody likes to be perceived as naive.

"The easiest way to find out about something is to google it"

followed by "Here's some tips"

As broadband gets more ubiquitous, esp. in rural areas, it will be easier for many to start getting info in active, not passive way. The challenge then is to get them googling in open market rather than meme ghettos, herding into FR, TownHall, etc.

Stupid but cunning, is how I would put the W conundrum.
Or in Texas talk--
Like a wild pig, shortsighted - but sharp of tooth, and dangerous.
:evilgrin:
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sandraj Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Media isn't journalism in the traditional sense anymore
It's PR. It's all about smoke and mirrors these days.

And you know what Bruni is describing in that paragraph could apply to your average ground squirrel. Like Bush, ground squirrels have a sort of gut intelligence and are probably more attentive than we give them credit for. I just don't want them running the country.
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