Sorry, but...

[nyccitizen]

...I think Joe Biden was a big mistake.

Keep in mind I am an Obama true believer. I have no hatred of Hillary Clinton, I just felt he was the better choice. He ran a brilliant primary campaign, pragmatic and idealistic at the same time. She ran a poor campaign, presumptuous and ill-prepared. So she lost and she deserved it.

The political brilliance of his primary campaign is why I can't wrap my head around the political stupidity of Biden. The pick is neither inspired nor politically sound. Being a northern liberal from Delaware, Biden brings nothing to the table in terms of the electoral map. And as a Washington Insider, he brings literally the opposite of "change". People refer to him as a "safe" choice, but I see him as the opposite of that, and the fact that Gallup is showing a negative bump from Biden could be confirming that.

I would have preferred Clark or Kaine or, in a dream world, Gore. But I also have to say that Hillary Clinton should have been seriously considered. I know there's no love lost between the two, but it's better to win the election with her than lose it without her, which could very well happen. The VP barely has any constitutional duties anyway; stick her in an office and let her wait for 2016 if you have to, Barack -- at least you'd still be President. Now, I fear that if John McCain puts someone like Sarah Palin or Kay Bailey Hutchinson on the ticket, people will look at him as having more guts than Obama and that inspired choice could put him in the White House.

Sorry. I think Biden's a fine enough person and politician, but if Obama loses this election, this limp and boring choice may very well be the cause.

[IndianaJones]

1. Biden is far from boring. He is a pitbull. nt.

[leftofcool]

2. you should probably duck

[Booster]

3. "Limp and boring"? I think you may eat those words later.

[nyccitizen]

4. I truly hope I do. I'm just saying, doesn't seem like a smart choice right now. /nt

[LynneSin]

15. My dear myccitizen, I come to you from decitizen

Biden was picked for one main reason - this guy is one of the scrapiest fighters you'll find in congress. Please go to the Videos forum here at DU and you can see many of the videos posted of Biden's past attacks on people were standing in the way of the right thing being done. Not only is this guy one of the most intelligent speakers you'll find but he won't back down from a fight - pitbull is the world most commonly used when discribing Biden's tactics.

He was the right choice because Biden won't back down. My only wish is that Biden would get to debate McCain - McCain would be destroyed easily, much quicker than what Obama coudl do.

[nyccitizen]

17. I will happily eat crow if and when...

Biden starts effectively criticizing his good friend John McCain. So far he has not done so. Right now the most effective negative campaigner has been McCain, who has closed the gap and even possibly taken the lead with his cheap shot, George W. Bush-style attack ads.

[LynneSin]

26. Oh geez, you've been asleep since Friday haven't you

:grr:

They all call each other 'their good friend' when working in DC - it's the polite thing to do. But Biden's been attacking right out of the gate. Please go over to the Video forum here and catch up for those days you must have been asleep because all the other posters here have seen this.

[scheming daemons]

5. Thanks for your "concern". Some points:

1. Anybody who considers Joe Biden "limp and boring" is either a freeptard, or so out of touch with modern politics that they have no idea who the guy is.


2. After Wednesday night, you will NOT consider Joe Biden to be a "mistake" pick.

[nyccitizen]

10. Response

1. Let's not fool ourselves here -- anyone in touch with modern politics has made up their mind about who to vote for already. The swing votes that will decide this election are people who barely pay attention to politics. And those people think that Biden is that guy with the bad hair plugs who ran for president for 5 minutes. Sorry, but them's the facts.

2. I truly hope you're right.

[berni_mccoy]

6. .

:popcorn:

[blondeatlast]

7. Your opinion is wrong but you are entitled to it. nt

[nyccitizen]

11. I hope I'm wrong but I'll remember your smart-ass comment if Obama loses. nt

[blondeatlast]

14. Your opinion is wrong but you are entitled to it. nt

[cyberpj]

8. Obama needed Foreign Policy expertise to appease the nay-sayers. Chuck Todd just did a great job

of explaining why Hillary could not have been the VP choice on MSNBC.

the bottom line was - What to do about Bill.

[LittleClarkie]

9. I thought Bayh was limp and boriing

Biden may be many things, but boring he ain't.

[Avalux]

12. Um......Biden is NOT limp and boring AND

you are parroting GOP talking points in your post.

[nyccitizen]

16. Ridiculous

Aside from the fact that I extol Obama's primary campaign virtues, not exactly a GOP talking point, please explain how it is a GOP talking point to say that:

-Biden, from Delaware, doesn't have the electoral advantages of other potential candidates, such as Kaine. That's a cold hard fact.

-Polls haven't shown a bounce from that pick. That's a fact.

-Hillary Clinton, with better name recognition and better support among women than Biden, is a more politically sound choice if you factor out their personal distaste for each other.

I will happily vote for Obama/Biden but you have the blinders on if you can't face the political realities of his choice.

[LynneSin]

13. Limp and boring? You nuts

Biden is a Pit Bull that will take anyone to task. He will do what Lieberman and Edwards failed to do in their try as the #2 - he will get ferocious and attack like a pit bull clamping the jaw down on a leg and locking it so the person can't get out.

Biden is hardly a limp & boring choice.

[nyccitizen]

18. Regarding the "pit bull" comments...

It seems to me most of you are extolling Biden over things you expect him to do or hope he will do soon, not things that he has actually done thus far.

[scheming daemons]

19. Dude, he's been the VP pick for about 15 minutes.... calm the fuck down

[LynneSin]

28. OMFG - you're fucking kidding us right

:rofl:

I mean, that or all of DU ganged up behind your back and came up with the conspiracy to call Biden a 'pitbull'

:eyes:

[doublethink]

30. Really?

Ummmmm 'things he has actually done thus far'? Are you referring to things since Saturday? 3 days ago? Or are you referring to his whole political career? If you are referring to 3 days ago, it's an absurd assumption on your part and not worth arguing about ... but if you're referring to his whole political career than you need to read up on him. Your comment makes no sense. Peace.

[WeDidIt]

20. Thank you for your concern

[redqueen]

21. Thanks for your concern. It means a lot!

:banghead:

[LynneSin]

31. Save room on that wall for my head too

Geez, every replier has come back calling the guy a 'pitbull' and the OP STILL says 'Well I guess that's what you're hoping he'll be'. I've been following Biden FOREVER, especially I was back in PA with representatives like Spector and Santorum reprsenting me. I kinda felt that Biden was my senator since I was given a shitty two options. In the primaries Biden was one of the hardest hitting debators and he took Giuliani to task for using 9/11 for everything.

Ugh, ridiculous

[redqueen]

36. "In the primaries Biden was one of the hardest hitting debators "

Yeah but you can't expect that to continue... that's just foolish wishful thinking.

Biden was a MISTAKE!

A MISTAKE do you hear me!

:eyes:

Seriously, this shit is getting downright laughable.

[LynneSin]

39. You know, when he was on my porch it wasn't really swept that well and...

there were a few weeds popping out. AND HE DIDN'T ATTACK ME FOR THAT!!! Damnit, he is limp and boring

(for those who don't know, about 2 months ago Joe Biden stopped at my house during a parade that was passing by. I told my mother about it and the first thing she asked was "Were the weeds pulled out front", "Was the porch swept off")

[barack the house]

22. HE AINT BORING. check this, video link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmP32e4heNk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewa8_9fUeIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fkuhcelZ_g

[Debi]

23. You concern is noted

:eyes:

[H2O Man]

24. legalize elk feathers

[DevonRex]

32. Dammit, NO elk should have wings! I propose the Elk Feather

Enforcement Agency to combat illegal elk feathers.

I mean, geez, if you buy elk feathers you're supporting terrorism. You must be a pinko.

[H2O Man]

41. Ever since Senator McCarthy

did to Elk Feathers what J. Edgar Hoover did to Eyes in Oak Waters, this issue has been dividing Democrats as much as the Beatles. It has central to the primarily campaign. Until we have the guts to speak out on this, no matter what the inconsequentials, we will never regain that which we have lost. I think that it is the central theme of the OP. And I doubt that Joe Biden will address it tonight when he doesn't speak. How can we inspect partly unity under these conditions?

[Butch350]

25. Yes, you are a sorry butt...

[VolcanoJen]

27. Hmmm!

:popcorn:

[DevonRex]

29. "true believer"? There ARE no "true believers." We support

the democratic nominee for president. He is a man, and a fine one at that. He is our best chance of taking back the White House.

I'm very, very happy that a "northern liberal" was Obama's choice. If Hillary had wanted to be VP she would have allowed herself to be vetted without a prior committment. You can't be hired unless you submit to the hiring process.

[Erin Elizabeth]

33. I've noticed you guys always try to mention people other

than Hillary first nowdays, rather than go straight to her, BUT it always ends up being her.

Why don't you just be honest instead of tip-toeing around what you want to say, hoping no one notices?

Here's all you really wanted to say: "But I also have to say that Hillary Clinton should have been seriously considered. I know there's no love lost between the two, but it's better to win the election with her than lose it without her, which could very well happen. The VP barely has any constitutional duties anyway; stick her in an office and let her wait for 2016 if you have to, Barack -- at least you'd still be President."

Hillary isn't the VP. She wasn't ever going to be the VP. It's Biden. Move on.

[cliffordu]

34. Sorry about boring you. What about your limp and boring post??

[Erin Elizabeth]

35. By the way, concerning your thread title

"Sorry, but..."

I am glad you are at least sorry for your opinion that it should have been Hillary. At least there's that. Apology accepted, as long as you move on.

[ieoeja]

37. Copy. Paste. Replace. Hmm. It fits.

Being a northern liberal from New York, Hillary brings nothing to the table in terms of the electoral map. And as a Washington Insider, she brings literally the opposite of "change". People refer to her as a "safe" choice, but I see her as the opposite of that.

The exact same criticism you have of Biden applies equally to Hillary. How could you write that and not see it for yourself?

[gabby garcia]

38. freeeeep

freep

[SanchoPanza]

40. Biden adds more than he detracts

In terms of electoral math, you really have to go all the way back to Kennedy/Johnson to see a VP nominee that brought more to the table than their own experience and expertise. And it should be noted that Johnson offered Kennedy a lot of both, possibly being the most effective legislator in the history of the Republic. Those who would have wanted a Governor should remember that Governor/Senator teams have consistently done better, both at the polls and as effective leaders for their party, when the Governor is at the top of the ticket. Clinton and Gore, Reagan and Bush, Carter and Mondale, Roosevelt and Garner/Truman.

While I would prefer to see Biden remain in the Senate, where he really shines, he's really the best of whats available in terms of building a team thats capable of bringing about the Democratic agenda. Long-serving, but not too long in years. Can compromise to get an overall good bill through the Senate, or mitigate some of the negative effects of a bad bill that looks inevitable. Is not only on a first name basis with many Heads of State, but also their Foreign Ministers and opposition leaders. Accusations of being in the pocket of the Credit Card Industry aside, he's as close as it gets to an old fashioned FDR Democrat that we're going to get. He's not perfect, but he's no DLCer.

Depending on how much they stress Biden's personal narrative (which I have little doubt that they will), it meshes extremely well with that of Obama. The story of a man who grew up without a father running with a single father who made it his personal mission to be with his kids as much as possible is going to resonate emotionally with a lot of people.

Hutchinson might be viable for McCain, with limp and boring being her milieu, but Palin isn't for obvious reasons. Remember that the attacks on Democratic unity have two purposes, the first being to sway people against voting Democratic. If you're an independent who only watches cable news, with its obsession of the virtually non-existent Clinton/Obama psychodrama, this argument might sway you, but that demographic is painfully small compared to disaffected Republicans and evangelicals who will have to hold their nose to vote for McCain. And nose-holding is something these folks are never keen on doing. Cloaking Republican disunity is the second, and more important purpose. And attacking Democratic unity will only go so far. They need a real fundamentalist in order to shore up the social conservative vote and help hold the line on downticket races.

McCain has never been one for effective partnerships in his political career, so I seriously doubt building a capable governing team will be high on his campaigns agenda. We are talking about Republicans, after all.