Anyone personally know a PUMA? My sister is one

[Quixote1818]

She was for Hillary and got caught up in all the stuff about Michigan and Florida. The last time I saw her I asked who she was going to vote for and she said "Probably McCain" with anger in her voice. I have been sending her all kids of stuff on how nuts McCain is but I don't know where she is at now.

The funny thing is my Dad's girlfriend (My Mom died in 97') absolutely hates Hillary and was extremely angry about the campaign she ran. My Dad voted for Hillary over her health care plan but then was a little taken back on some of her statements.

This isn't a male / female thing for the most part but in some cases a few of Hillary's biggest supporters took this very personally. I wonder what their psychological make up is compared to my Dad's girlfriend? What causes some people to react so strongly? It reminds me of the O.J. Simpson thing when most whites thought O.J. was guilty and most blacks thought he was innocent. Each side taps in emotionally to specific things and hold onto them.

I have hope that a lot of Hillary supporters will come around and I think she did have a lot of support from women who had voted Republican in the past so the number of PUMA's may be deceptive. As Thom Hartman pointed out. People who are emotionally attached to a candidate male or female have to go through a period of loss where they work through the emotions. There is denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then acceptance. I think a lot of them were holding out hope that Hillary would be the VP choice and so they didn't have closure. Now that they have closure perhaps they can start the healing process and find acceptance before the elections start?

I don't think it is productive to rip on the PUMA's. All that does is reinforce their belief that we are enemy's and the process wasn't fair. They are human and hopefully some just need time to work through this. And maybe they will not be 100% happy with Obama but they will come to terms with things enough to see that voting for McCain is certainly not the answer.

Lets treat this as a disagreement and not build walls between us. Ultimately we have the same values and goals as most Hillary supporters who are still undecided about what to do. I know Obama would reach out to them this way and so should we.

[NJmaverick]

1. My mother is one, She refuses to vote for Obama because she claims

Obama didn't treat Hillary with enough respect. My boss at work is another one.

[emilyg]

38. My next door neighbor is one.

[Coexist]

44. did you mention that McCain said Chelsea is so ugly because Janet Reno is her father?

is she okay with that?

[WeDidIt]

2. PUMAs, Freepers, Dittoheads, and other Republicans are the ENEMY

All lumped together because there is no difference.

[connecticut yankee]

3. So the PUMAs

are going to vote for McCain.

What will they say (assuming he gets elected) when he appoints another right-wing reactionary to SCOTUS?

Will their revenge be sweeter?

[darius15]

4. I don't

My family supported Hillary in the primaries by probably 70-30 I'd say. When I say family I mean cousins and aunts and uncles and stuff, so about 30 people overall. But all of them are supporting Obama now.

I wonder what I'd say if I met one

[TwilightGardener]

5. Uh, no, we DON'T have the same values and goals as PUMA types--

they have no interest in seeing a Democrat other than Hillary win the Presidency, and many of them are racist. They're just vindictive cult fans--nothing more.

[Quixote1818]

10. What is the exact definition of a PUMA?

Maybe my sister isn't really in that category?

[connecticut yankee]

11. Party Unity My Ass

[greguganus]

31. People Up McLame's Ass n/t

[TwilightGardener]

17. Folks who think that the DNC chose Obama and rigged the primaries,

bullied the SD's, and engineered the MI/FL outcome to make sure he was elected. They also are obsessed with media treatment of Hillary, they think Obama called the Clintons racist, and they think there was sexism, and all sorts of other perceived slights and grievances. In short, they are not feminists, they do not represent women, they do not represent most of the people who voted for Hillary--they are just vocal obsessed fans and probably mentally ill. Or, they're Republicans just stirring up the shit for Operation Chaos.

[yardwork]

37. I think that pretty much sums it up.

[bain_sidhe]

43. Wait a minute... I believe most of that stuff and I"m not a "PUMA"

I'm an Obama supporter AND a feminist. I'm pissed, not stupid. You can support Obama and still not be blind to the sexism and maneuvering, and yes, the disrespect with which Clinton was treated by both the party and the media.

[TwilightGardener]

50. Hillary was given far more deference and propping-up than she deserved--

she pretty much lost the race in February, but was not given the Huckabee treatment. The media beat Obama down from the first week of March on, in order to make the race closer. I saw next to no sexism, sorry. Hillary was only a victim of herself and her poor campaign.

[bain_sidhe]

51. I have no interest in rehashing the primaries or

justifying my anger to you. We have a Democratic ticket to support and a general election to win. All my time, energy and money is going into that. How about you?

GObama, GoBiden, Go'Merica!!

[Growler]

52. agreed

people see what they want to see, and many people had already made up their minds to see sexism against Hillary.

[GoesTo11]

22. Someone who needs a bucket of cold water dumped on their head

to cool down and wake up to reality.

If this definition applies to your sister, I strongly recommend that you give her the help she needs.

[Lucinda]

47. There are a variety - some won't vote dem , some will but are angry and they go places to vent

some are purely Rep disruptors.
Trying to lump them all in one category doesnt work.

[nc4bo]

6. I seriously think some people need professional psychological help. Meds, therapy - something. nt

[TwilightGardener]

8. True--these people are seriously deranged. They are thinking with

something other than their heads.

[eshfemme]

7. It's just a symptom of the problem in politics that Obama's been trying to address

and that's voting with your emotions instead of your head. That whole messing with your emotions in order to get you to HATE the other side is why there's partisan gridlock and why our country's currently so fucked up. Because the GOP, in their efforts to line their own pockets AND stick it to the Democrats, happened to ruin the country. It's just sad that our country's in this state for the sake of spite and pettiness and it'd be sad if spoilers like the PUMAs and dittoheads ruin this election too. So I'm hoping there will be enough reasonable rational people to balance those people out.

[AuntPatsy]

9. I still don't agree that they were actual Dem's to begin with, seems some just wanted a female

and though I have respect for sen clinton, much more than many on this site, she is slightly to the left of center, what most don't realize is that not all re pub thinking individuals care about the religious aspect of the campaigns, its about financial gains to quite a few and many don't like feeling they are paying for welfare individuals out of their taxes blindly believing all those in need are just abusing the system which is not true...selfish reasoning is all it is...not caring about all the citizens of this country...

[Quixote1818]

16. I am wondering if some of them are Republican women who were married

to abusive men? Or have been mistreated by Men or have a male boss that treats them poorly?

If so then perhaps we really should be reaching out to them. They could need counseling and have a lot of pent up emotions. There is no doubt that there are a lot of men out there that abuse women.

I know my sister has been mistreated and cheated on a few times. My other sisters weren't and seem more live and let live about the gender of the president.

[AuntPatsy]

35. could be the reasoning for some a simple dislike of having to adhere to a man but

for most of them I would say no, people react to things differently, some are stronger than others and some do not wallow in self pity and the blame game blaming anyone and everyone for their own obvious lack of courage and it does come down to that you know, courage, it takes courage, an extreme amount to leave a highly abusive relationship if your unable or feel your unable to take care of yourself. In some respects I find women who have survived abusive relationships without a need to blame anyone and everything around them much more courageous than any soldier of war, at least they are armed and trained to fight back, these women went into a war completely unprepared...


ITs a shame society does not recognize and award such courageous women and or men...

:dem:

[jonnyblitz]

12. I actually know more Obama supporters who claimed they

wouldn't vote DEM if Hillary won the primary. all hillary supporters i know (family members) plan on voting for Obama.

[Arugula Latte]

20. That's the only former "PUMA" I know, who said he would not vote for Hillary, period.

He's going to vote for Obama, happily.

I'm glad I did not have to try to persuade him to hold his nose and vote for Hillary in the general.

[PCIntern]

13. I have a patient who's one...

Complex psychological case, very very bright, strong feminist, single, in her late 60's. Treated her for 28 years and the only time I ever saw her in tears was when she couldn't get to a Hillary rally and was beside herself.

I understand her feelings but was shocked at her response to Obama...you might as well say Bush, Jr. to her.

What can one say?

[Joe the Revelator]

14. Fuck the PUMAS. They are a cancer on the party

They're a 97% made up republican faction

[nichomachus]

15. Many of these people

were engaged in politics for the first time. They have a five-year-old's view of the process and don't realize that you don't always win.

There are others who are just self-important assholes.

[Growler]

53. I think you are right!

Hillary engaged them when they'd never felt engaged before. They liked feeling that their thoughts and opinions mattered to someone who was a strong surrogate for themselves. They feel betrayed that she lost a tough contest, and have to explain it away by blaiming everyone BUT Hillary (which would actually mean blaiming themselves...).

[liberalmuse]

18. My mom suported Hillary after voting for Bush twice.

She claims she's a Democrat, but I don't believe she's voted Dem since Carter, or maybe even Kennedy. My sister and I have finally helped her see the light. It took 6 years, but now she will vote straight Dem (so she says), but is upset that Hillary won't be running. Even when she loved Bush, she used to say she'd vote for Hillary if she ever ran.

Anyway, she's not a PUMA, but she is an older woman who has reservations about Obama because she doesn't feel he can protect us like McCain can, yet she believes Hillary wouldn't have any problem. Why is that?

There's one more thing. My mom didn't raise us to be prejudiced and we were taught that racism was wrong, but I believe she is a bit prejudiced just from some of the stuff she says, "Blacks are a spiritual people.", "Those hispanics sure work hard." and "The gays love me." Okay, the last one was actually narcissism. I don't know if the racism rampant in her generation has anything to do with why some people her age are having a very difficult time with Obama, which is odd if it's because of his youth and inexperience since many of them voted for Kennedy.

[nc4bo]

25. Then your mom should get much comfort from having Joe Biden on the ticket. Mine is overjoyed. nt

[Radical Activist]

19. Victim mentality

Their projecting abuse/disrespect/discrimination faced in their own lives onto the election and re-living it vicariously through Hillary. That isn't surprising considering Hillary's not so subtle attempts to exploit and encourage that.

[TwilightGardener]

21. Yep.

[Bonobo]

40. Correct.

[vaberella]

23. I know one who is borderline. She's waiting for the debates to cast her vote.

Ever since HRC left the race she doesn't care nor know the other candidates and will watch some of the debates to tell which one. She's not a fan of Obama, and like most Blacks/Hispanics I know in NYC think he's a pimp with a slick talk and walk. She understands under McCain it won't be better but she doesn't know which.

This is also the reason why I say some HRC supporters ARE PUMAS. There are a lot of HRC supporters here who say they are freepers, and I'm sure the ones with money and loud mouths are. However, they were able to suck in a good amount of people into believeing their stuff who are Dems and supported HRC.

[last1standing]

24. Your sister isn't a PUMA.

PUMA is a GOP astroturf organization created to dupe people like your sister into thinking it's OK to harbor resentment against Obama. To be honest, I have no real problem with people like your sister, I have a problem with fake Democrats who go on TV or come to this board to spread lies and demoralize those who do plan to vote for Obama.

You're sister is entitled to vote for whomever she wishes and I would never advocate against that. She doesn't have the right to spread malicious lies, like PUMA does, without being called out on it.

[Lex]

45. Thank you.

You are absolutely correct. Thanks for saying it so well.

[AlCzervik]

26. My sister is a fake Puma.

She says she's a democrat but after spending 2 1/2 weeks with her there ain't no way, i don't even want to get into the why and how i know but she just isn't a democrat. I learned way more than i wanted to know about my only sibling during that visit and most of it wasn't good. How much does that suck?

[johnaries]

27. I work with a PUMA - he was a Republican troll.

He was always a staunch Republican. He switched and voted for HIllary in the primary because he was sure she would get beaten in the GE (his words, not mine).

I'm guessing about half of PUMA's are upset Hillary didn't win and half planned to vote for McCain all along. The latter is just trying to split the Dem Party.

[greguganus]

28. My sister is a die-hard PUMA. She would vote for Hitler over Obama. n/t

[crispini]

29. I know someone who volunteers for the campaign I work for.

I don't say much, I just say from time to time if it comes up in conversation that if McCain wins I will give up and leave the country (which definitely a serious option, at this point).

At least she's still engaged and working for a local Democrat, which is something.

[Robeson]

30. Also, some people are racist, just as some are sexist...

...many people would never vote for Hillary because she is a woman. And many people will never vote for Obama, because he's black. Unfortunately, we still have both of those types in our party.

[muffin1]

32. I know one.

Most of my friends supported Obama in the primary (as did I). I have a few gay friends - and I know this sounds like I'm using a broad brush - who ALL supported Hillary in the primary and for VP. Now, they are quite upset that she wasn't picked for the VP slot. However, all but one of them is still voting Obama. I'm working on the last holdout!

[Booster]

33. Send her Douglas Carpenter's (in GD) fabulous compilation of the

voting records of Obama, Biden and McCain. If that voting record doesn't show people who is voting in the best interest of the middle class, women, veterans and even animals, then they are a lost cause and don't waste your time on them.

[ZombieHorde]

34. we are enemy's and the process wasn't fair

The candidate that was treated most unfairly was DK.

And maybe they will not be 100% happy with Obama

I am unhappy with Obama, but I am still going to vote for him.

[Chloroplast]

36. I don't know. I think saying that PUMA is a GOP faction gives the Republicans too much power.

I think for the most part it was founded by the GOP but the members/dissenters themselves, ARE Democrats. I don't care what anyone says: the foot soldiers of PUMA are Democrats that just didn't like that 'their girl' was put aside for that 'inadequate male'.

[vaberella]

39. Thank you. Finally!! I totally agree with your post.

I find that yes we can call them GOP shills and some of them are especially the loud mouths with the money and position to get on tv and spout their trash. But there are plenty of HRC supporters who are definitely on the band wagon and support them.

There are plenty of HRC supporters who support Obama who want to fight against sharing the same title, however, let's be realistic. There are some people who knwo others like PUMAS and people who may not know of PUMA but share similar reactions and just want HRC on the ticket some how. So to deny it would be silly in my eyes.

[maximusveritas]

41. I do know one

She won't vote for Obama, mainly because of his race. She doesn't think a black man should be President before a white woman. I don't agree with that reasoning, but at least she's honest with me instead of giving some BS reason like experience or the Michigan/Florida thing.

[benddem]

42. would all of you with PUMA friends and relatives

`please explain to them that in any primary there are things said, nasty commercials, pettiness etc. but being a grownup means that you accept the will of the people. I was a huge Deaniac. Spent lots of money and time...flew to Iowa, worked like crazy but....I became chair of Vets for Kerry. I don't get their complaints...and stating they'll vote for McMansion is a sure sign of either immaturity or derangement. Supreme Court!! Explain that Hilary will not know they continue to support her. Explain that the nation and women especially will suffer if Mr.POW is elected. I give up...they are hopeless. :argh: :argh: :argh:

[BlueStateGirl]

46. Nope. n/t

[flamingdem]

48. My sister was a hard core Hillary supporter

But now she has fully warmed up to Obama. She and her son are working for his campaign.
(whew!)

My mother who is 80 was always 100% Obama.

For a while politics was a difficult subject for us. My sister thought my mother was giving in
to some tendency to trust males over females. She gets it now, but many do not.

[dano81818]

49. personally know 3... mom, sis, cousin...

and this defies all logic b/c they are all pro-abortion and neither (to my knowlege) has ever voted for a repub... i'm working on them, but they are still pissssed...