First Cleveland-Dispatch Poll for Ohio. Damnit Clinton Supporters

[Thrill]

epublican John McCain holds a 1-point edge, 42 to 41 percent, in the first Dispatch Poll of the general election campaign. The Arizona senator's lead is well within the poll's margin of sampling error, plus or minus 2.2 percentage points. That means McCain could be ahead by as much as 5 points or Obama could be up by 3.

Regardless of the exact numbers, McCain is being bolstered by Ohio voters who supported Hillary Clinton in the state's March 4 Democratic primary and those who backed Democratic Gov. Ted Strickland in 2006. McCain also is doing better among party loyalists: 86 percent of Republicans back McCain, while 74 percent of Democrats support Obama.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/08/24/copy/POLL24_method.ART0_ART_08-24-08_A10_IIB4CSJ.html?adsec=politics&sid=101


We would like be looking at a landslide if they would stop this shit

[progressiveforever]

1. Ohioan here

I want Strickland to come out hitting for Obama and he really hasn't yet. I was wearing an Obama button yesterday and a Hillary supporter that I do not know verbally attacked me. I finally told her to leave me alone, write Hillary in and shut up.

[elkston]

18. Strickland is a prick for not coming out for Obama.

And for also being in that group of Democrats who aired their "concerns" about the Obama campaign in public.

At least Ed Rendell (another Hillary backer) is doing his part.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

79. Had to admit I was shocked to hear Rendell on MSNBC yesterday

Didn't sound like the same guy who said a "black man" could never win his state just a few months ago. Personally, I still think he's a DLC tool (as is Strickland) but at least Rendell is sane enough not to stand in the way.

[cyndensco]

85. I don't know much about Strickland

but am hoping that he and other holdouts will come around after Thursday. Once Hillary is totally out of the running I pray they will support the nominee.

[WCGreen]

94. Strickland has a lot going on here in Ohio...

We now have an Attorney General race since our Dem elected in 2006 decided to treat the office like a frat house...

There is a real chance since the early '90's to have a democratic Ohio House, a big deal when it comes to reapportionment in 2011...

STJ just passed on and there is going to be infighting amongst the African-American community about who is going to take her place...

He is trying to negotiated a compromise between Ohio's labor activists and business community about a seven day sick leave issue on the november ballot...

He has to deal with the potential loss of 8,000 jobs in an economically struggling area of the state...

And, he has the Dimora/Russo scandals that erupted last month in the highly democratic county, Cuyahoga...

The guy has a lot on his plate... I'm sure he will come out strongly for Obama but right now, getting his own house in order is probably more important to Obama than a public smoosh fest. If the people in Ohio get angry at Dem's, they won't turn our for Obama in Novemeber...

[maseman]

100. Also an Ohioan here

Obama hasn't been here. Of course duign the primaries he was here often but compared to Kerry Obama really hasn't been here much.

[speedoo]

2. That's a pre-Biden poll.

With Biden on the ticket, we get a bounce in Ohio. Biden brings a lot of Clinton supporters home, IMO.

[Cosmocat]

66. And ... if McCain picks ???

He won't get a "bounce" ?

[Quixote1818]

3. They will come around. If they don't they will be blamed for us losing

and Hillary and her most radical supporters will be scorned by Democrats forever.

[Occam Bandage]

6. Nah. They'll do what the Naderites did: sit out and then blame the Dems for "making them."

[theoldman]

7. You are forgetting one thing, they don't care.

All they care about is giving Hillary a chance in 2012.

[Quixote1818]

11. But this will blow that chance. The Democratic party will be so upset with Hillary

their is no way she would win.

[WeDidIt]

31. Hillary will have NO CHANCE in 2012

None.

Nada.

Either Obama is running for re-election in 2012 or somebody else will carry the Democratic Standard.

Hillary Clinton knew the gamble when she started the kitchen sink strategy. Her p
If you think Hillary supporters are upset with Obama this year, that'll be nothing compared to how Obama supporters will feel about Hillary Clinton if Obama loses.

[MH1]

62. And don't forget how Iowa and NH feel about the Michigan/Florida stuff.

Letting the same two little states always go first may seem unfair to the rest of us, but it's a fact that they jealously protect their status and do not look kindly on someone trying to screw with the system that favors them.

[Quixote1818]

73. Bingo! And if polls point to her supporters as being the difference then

many of us will be furious!

[JustAnotherGen]

81. Iwant

I couldn't agree more.

I will start the StopHerNowLeft.com site if these anti-Obama assholes get their way.

Should I go buy the domain now- so we can spend 4 years tearing her down? So she leaves politics? And her supporters get punished?

[Occam Bandage]

4. Well, we said that dragging on the primary for so long would have negative repercussions.

Guess we were right.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. What a graceless, inflammatory statement.

I'm sure you can find many posts of mine explaining in excruciating detail why Obama would not the most electable candidate, would have trouble in places like Ohio and would under-perform within the Democratic party.

"Guess I was right."

See what an assholic statement that sounds like?

Things are what they are. The 'crying over spilled milk' factor goes in many directions and it's f***ing rude to throw out arguments that will go un-rebutted primarily because most people who might disagree are too decent to respond in kind.

Do you have any idea how many "I told you so"s I would be entitled to if I wanted to make people unhappy and upset? If I can make an effort to let it go anyone should be able to. (I'm a pretty cantankerous character.)

The Hillary dead-enders should be called SOMAs (Support Obama my Ass) because the PUMA slogan, "Party Unity, My Ass," seems to be in demand on both sides. Perhaps PUOMT is the most accurate for both... "Party Unity on My Terms."

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

82. The Democratic Party IS united behind Obama/Biden

If the DLC doesn't want to come on board, they can give up the pretense of being "Democrats" and fuck themselves.

[Skip Intro]

89. Yeah, waaaay too much democracy!

:eyes:

[HughLefty1]

5. Unfortunately it doesn't surprise me..

My Mother, Aunts, sister, and (female) cousins still live in Northeast Ohio. They were all Hillary supporters and are all going to vote for McCain. Most if not all of them are registered Dems. Un-freakin-believable.

I don't want to be a chicken little but Obama has a bit of an issue with the female Hillary voters..especially the older ones. Hopefully this convention can do some good.

[CTLawGuy]

12. tell them that Roe v. Wade is ONE VOTE AWAY

from being overturned. and if they want that on their conscience, that's fine, but I wouldn't.

[Thrill]

8. But look at the picture. And you see why they came out with that ad today

Obama has serious appeal to Independents. And their attacks simply aren't working. They know the election is not even close if the Clinton supporters came home. This is amazing. The polls are very clear here

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Nobody is entitled to any vote, so why not blame the republicans?

The emphasis on blaming Democrats makes no sense.

Voters are individuals. Everyone voting McCain is equally wrong.

[ruggerson]

13. Because people like the OP are stuck in the primaries

[sufrommich]

16. Because blaming the republicans doesn't involve

Clinton bashing. There were a good amount of independent voters(most likely largely female) who were voting for Clinton as the first female president,I doubt party affiliation means much to them. We can't control what causes people to cast their vote one way or the other or control what criteria they choose to use when casting their vote. It's up to the Obama campaign to convince voters that the Democrats have better ideas,regardless of who their choice in the primary was.

[emilyg]

56. Yes.

[PFunk]

10. At the risk of ignighting flamebate Clinton/Dems are going to have to deal with the PUMA's

And deal with them now. Otherwise they are going to make the election close enough for Obama to steal.

(for the same reasons they also will to have start solidfying their left wing base who do not like Obama's turn to the center and hopefully Biden will help in doing just that)

[verges]

20. Maybe I'm a little dense.

But, what the hell are you talking about? What election are you worried about Obama stealing?

[Starry Messenger]

76. Your slip is showing

MPK

[CreekDog]

78. if they won't vote for Obama because of some stupid citizen, Muslim or other rumor

and will vote for a Republican instead, then these are not people we can appeal to rationally.

this is why Obama has moved to the center because he has a better chance with centrists that aren't racists than hard core Democrats that are racists.

[Azathoth]

14. Hillary better campaign her ass off for Obama in Ohio

She was rather open about her strategy to embitter her older white female supporters and encourage them to feel disenfranchised and discriminated against. She and Bill were the ones who started the "He doesn't care about your kind" shit in Ohio and Kentucky and West Virginia.

If Hillary doesn't put as much effort into healing these rifts as she put into creating them, the party is never going to forgive her.

[ruggerson]

17. Conversely, Obama better campaign his ass off in Ohio

because he needs to earn these people's votes. I think he can and he will. Clinton will do her part, but she is not the issue. Many of these folks voted for her because they didn't like Obama to begin with. She's not omnipotent and they're not stupid cattle that she can herd.

[Azathoth]

21. Obama campaigning in Ohio is a foregone conclusion

But Hillary is mistaken if she thinks she can sit back and claim to be innocent while all those divisive little seeds she planted during the primary germinate.

[ruggerson]

28. Why don't you give her credit then for the 80% of her supporters who ARE already committed to Obama

in your worldview, if she gets the blame for this small minority, shouldn't she get the praise for everyone else who is already on board?

Your bashing is not fooling anyone.

You are just continuing to rehash the primaries and you are harming both the party and Obama.

[Azathoth]

35. It doesn't work that way

Hillary doesn't get credit for Democrats choosing to vote for a Democrat. She does, however, get blamed for Democrats who betray their party because of her campaign.

The same rules, by the way, would apply to Obama were the roles reversed.

[ruggerson]

46. She shouldn't get credit and she shouldn't get blame

these are voters who make up their own minds. She is supporting Obama, has already stumped for him, will deliver a full throated endorsement (again) at the convention.

But, you see, that is not enough for inveterate Hillary bashers such as yourself. Because the premise you're working from is inherently unsound.

But, knock yourself out and keep damaging our candidate. We will win despite you.

[Azathoth]

50. Calling me a "Hillary basher" doesn't change anything

A convention speech ain't gonna cut it with much of the party. Everyone saw the kind of campaign she ran. If she harbors even the slightest hope of running again, she has to go out and stump in Ohio, continuously, and work to repair the rifts she opened up. She has to directly address the "He hates women" and "He doesn't care about your kind" shit that was being stoked by her campaign.

She doesn't get to sit back after wrecking the house and declare that it isn't her fault if Obama can't clean up the mess she made.

[ruggerson]

53. You're trying to have it both ways

because your agenda is to foster division.

Many of the people who are recalcitrant were either Republicans to begin with or racists or people who simply didn't like Obama. They didn't vote for Hillary as much as against Obama.

You can repeat that you think Hillary is responsible for these people until you are blue in the face. It doesn't make it any more true.

What some of you keep doing is sadly very unproductive. But we will win this election in spite of you.

[Azathoth]

91. Half of Hillary's Ohio supporters are Republicans or racists?

I won't argue with you, but are you sure that's the point you want to make?

Only half of the voters who say they backed Clinton in Ohio's primary are now supporting Obama. Just 55 percent of those who said they voted for Strickland two years ago are behind Obama now.

[emilyg]

59. Hillary basher

That felt good.

[qwlauren35]

95. Question - because I have a short memory...

Is Hillary Clinton the only candidate who has gone negative against an opponent during the primaries?

I think the only reason its so obvious is because it came down to the two of them. But my recollection is that McCain and Bush went at each other like stags fighting over a doe, and that's why McCain had to do all of that "hugging".

I'm glad no one is asking Clinton to hug Obama as McCain hugged Bush. It would be rather disgusting...

[Azathoth]

97. No, she isn't the only candidate who has gone negative in a primary

Although I think she ran the most negative Democratic primary campaign in at least 20 years.

The problem is that the supporters she embittered could potentially throw the election to McCain, especially if the race comes down to Ohio, which was Hillary's "demographic firewall" and where her campaign really started employing GOP-style tactics. If she intends to run for President in the future, she better make an extraordinary attempt to repair that damage in Ohio. She doesn't have to hug Obama, but she does have to address, forcefully and repeatedly, the things her campaign said and did back in March, starting with her 3am ad and moving on to the "he hates and wants to oppress women" shit. If Obama loses because of Ohio and she hasn't made a very visible and enthusiastic effort there, Democrats are going to regard her the same way they regard Nader.

As far as McCain goes, I recall he ran a fairly clean primary campaign in 2000 and he got raked over the coals by the Rove machine for his efforts. So, utterly consumed with gnawing ambition and fully cognizant of the fact that he was detested by the rightwing 'base' that supported Chimpy, he approached the Bush campaign on bended knee and offered to prostitute himself to them in exchange for their help in 2008. Not quite the same thing.

[Azathoth]

51. [dupe]

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

67. Do you understand that Kerry didn't do great with Dems either?

No post-Reagan Dem candidate ever gets 100% of Dems.

Hillary is being blamed for the very existence of Reagan Democrats.

The miracle is that she got some of those people to vote in the Democratic primaries. Some Hillary supporters haven't voted for a Dem president since Bill Clinton, so it's silly to blame their established voting patterns on her.

Here is how the recalcitrant Hillary supporters have voted:

Reagan
Reagan
Bush
Clinton
Clinton
Bush/Gore split
Bush
Hillary

[JustAnotherGen]

84. I don't blame her for the existence of Reagan Dems

But I can't trust the judgment of the people in that last you provided who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.

We know they have poor judgment.

[Azathoth]

90. No, she is being blamed for Hillary Democrats

Everyone expects a certain percentage of Dems to cross over. But right now -- if you believe the poll -- a full *half* of Hillary's supporters in Ohio (more than a quarter of Dem primary voters) are voting McCain, many not because they actually support him, but because they want to pay Obama back for challenging their gal.

Only half of the voters who say they backed Clinton in Ohio's primary are now supporting Obama. Just 55 percent of those who said they voted for Strickland two years ago are behind Obama now.

You're telling me these are all Reagan Democrats? 50% of Hillary's supporters in Ohio are Reagan Democrats?

[mtnester]

98. The full half of Hillary supporters you iclaim are votiing for McCain

are not. You made that statement up. The article does not say that anywhere. It says "Only half of the voters who say they backed Clinton in Ohio's primary are now supporting Obama." It does not say the half that is not stating their support for Mr. Obama are voting for McCain.

Many of those people will come around to Mr. Obama before November 4. The convention, the announcement of the VP, and real post convention campaigning will turn them around.

The few left in November that won't vote for Mr. Obama never were going to vote for ANY Dem candidate because they are Repub shit stirrers.

Ohio has always been the last minute state, and Dem campaign strategists know that.

[elkston]

23. They may not be cattle, but they are STUPID if they believe

Obama is going to focus his Presidency around "payback time" for slavery and other ills.

The ignorance is astounding.

[ruggerson]

30. I couldn't agree with you more

which is why they need to be educated. And if they continue to "cling" to their racism, it ain't the fault of any politician. It's our culture and the way they were raised.

[paulk]

29. no, you don't understand

it's all Hillary's fault.

[CTLawGuy]

19. hear hear

I blame Hillary for this. She ran her campaign without regard for the fact that our nominee, whoever it is, needs to win, and that we need to be unified.

[JerseygirlCT]

77. She does need to keep underlining her support and

perhaps be more emphatic in her disagreement with those opposing Obama. But really, I'm not sure even SHE could impact the dead-enders (to borrow a phrase). They're wallowing in their persecution complex and irrational dislike of Obama.

[pecwae]

80. So, it's HRC's fault

if Obama doesn't carry OH? Shouldn't the nominee be doing some campaigning there?

[last1standing]

15. There's a name for ex-Hillary supporters who plan on voting for mcSame.

Racist.

These aren't PUMAs, that is a repub operation that is working to exploit these "low information voters". These are people who support Democratic policies - with the exception of minority rights. Here in the Detroit suburbs I run into the same type of people.

They're honestly afraid that Obama would "turn the whole country over to them". :eyes:

The same goes for some ex-Edwards supporters in this area. Fortunately, there are fewer of these LIVs that I would have thought. That gives some hope.

[highplainsdem]

22. This is exactly why a unity ticket -- which isn't unusual and is often a winning ticket -- would

have been a good idea. But every time I brought that up, I was criticized by Clinton haters.

Considering other unity tickets we've seen, it did seem like the logical way to unite the party. Even if the running mates weren't happy about that necessity. Do you think Reagan would have preferred George Bush Sr. above anyone else as his running mate?

But we don't have a unity ticket, so we'll have to hope we can win with Biden, and that Obama/Biden can win over more former Clinton supporters.

I can guarantee you what WON'T help, though.

Attacking Clinton.

She's endorsed Obama, asked her supporters and fundraisers to back him, and campaigned for him. Hell, she was campaigning for him in Florida, keeping those promises to him, right after she lost a good friend unexpectedly. She's correct in pointing out that what she's done for her former primary opponent has been way more than you'd normally see former rivals doing. She's doing her share, more than her share, to unite the party.

At this point it's important that Obama (and Biden too, now) be seen as reaching out more and more to Clinton's supporters. And making it clear how much they respect and value Hillary Clinton.

Insulting HRC or her supporters won't do a damn thing to help our chances of beating McCain. It will just divide the party further.

Just as it would have if Clinton had been the nominee, she hadn't opted for a unity ticket, and her supporters were busy giving Obama supporters hell for not being sure they could vote for her. (And giving Obama hell, too.) You really think that approach would work if the situation were reversed? I don't.

Obama, as well as Clinton, will have to make unity a priority.

[mkultra]

24. this post hurts our chances

[paulk]

34. explain how.

[mkultra]

57. rehashing the past creates division.

the decision is made. get over it.

[paulk]

75. that post doesn't rehash the past

and you can take your "get over it" and shove it up your ass.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elkston]

27. No evidence that these people would have been convinced with Hillary ...

as #2. They'd still see her as answering to the "black man" they all fear. The man who is going to order every black citizen to rise up and destroy white america.

Sheez.

[paulk]

36. hey - I know!

lets accuse all these people of being racists!

That should work in bringing them over to our side!


---------------------



:crazy:

[elkston]

40. Well, I'm not the politician here. I just telling it like it is. n/t

[paulk]

74. no, you're not.

you're just throwing gasoline on the fire

[highplainsdem]

43. I've seen entirely too many news stories quoting Clinton supporters saying they were waiting

to see if she'd be on the ticket to believe you.

And you're crazy if you think they're racist.

Polls showed a majority of Democrats wanted her on the ticket. Do you think people were telling pollsters that as a joke? They were serious, and pollsters were finding out the same thing two months after the primaries ended. And a majority of both our delegates and superdelegates thought she would help the ticket, according to a CBS poll.

If Democrats want a unity ticket, and they don't get one, many of them are going to be unhappy. Some of them are going to be very unhappy.

And it will only makes matters much worse if Obama supporters lash out at Clinton and her supporters, instead of trying to make the case for why they should vote for Obama.

If you think Clinton supporters are any less aware of the nasty things said about Clinton online by many Obama supporters than Obama supporters are unaware of PUMAs, you're kidding yourself.

The nasty remarks made by Obama supporters about Clinton have been a factor in this. Something I've tried to get across again and again here. Those posts were hurting Obama's chances of uniting the party and winning the election.

But the Clinton haters were having too much fun bashing a Democratic candidate who got 18 million votes, and then they want to turn around and howl with outrage if some of her supporters weren't happy about the nonstop denigration of her by many Obama supporters online.

And yes, I know, the usual counter argument to that is saying that no one should be influenced by what idiots on message boards post. But those same idiots have been blaming Clinton for not getting her supporters to back Obama.

WE NEED UNITY.

Clinton is doing her share. Only Obama can do more at this point.

[elkston]

70. I'm not saying all the Clinton holdouts are racists.

But this particular strain of them, in the mountains of WV, in Kentucky, in parts of Ohio. They carry the stain of racial distrust.

Its so obvious its not even funny.

The other group are older white women who truly gave their hearts to Hillary. She was their champion, a symbol for their struggle in life and the possibility to overcome. Having the victory snatched away by a close margin has truly broken them. Many will never support Barack enthusiastically. The best we can hope for is to convince them to cast a begrudging vote by default.

[Egnever]

38. its past time for you to stop spewing this nonsense

You have been shown time and again where that unity garbage you keep spewing is false. People like you need to grow the fuck up and get over yourself. This election isnt about Clinton or Obama it is about America and what happens to it in the next 4 years. You either want a Dem in office or a puke make a choice!

Hillary isnt an option any more get the fuck over it.

And polling showed that the unity ticket was Biden ! Obama did pick the unity ticket.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/can-biden-out-hillary-hillary.html

What's noteworthy is not so much that Biden will turn a lot of McCain voters on -- Tim Kaine and Hillary Clinton would have done a better job of that -- but that he'll turn very few Obama voters off. As a result, this method projects a net swing of 2 points toward Obama, which is better than he'd do with any of the other candidates.

[highplainsdem]

48. I read that and don't believe the projections. That was an interpretation of poll data based on

guesses of what it might mean. Rasmussen, whose poll data was being spun there, was on TV last night pointing out that Obama still has a lot of work to do winning over Clinton supporters.

The problem we're discussing here is party unity, and the polls all showed that a majority of Democrats wanted Clinton on the ticket. The polls also show it's mostly her supporters that Obama hasn't been able to close the deal with.

If Obama/Biden can win with the Democrats not unified behind him, by getting more independents than he might have been able to win over with Clinton as his running mate, then it might be a winning ticket, but it sure as hell isn't a unity ticket.

[Egnever]

52. Link a poll that says that!

You cant. You know you cant.

You can sure as hell keep your fingers in your ears though and scream I cant hear you I cant hear you.

You may not like the conclusions drawn by the polls they used but there is no denying what those polls said.

And what they said is the only place that Hillary did better than Joe was among Dems and that was so close as to be a virtual wash meanwhile Joe blew her out in every other category.

So in the end what your "unity ticket" means is a handful of people like you would feel better so we could completely alienate the rest of the electorate.

What you propose is stupidity.

[highplainsdem]

71. Links:

Topic about an Opinion Dynamics poll last week showing 56% of Democrats thought Clinton would be Obama's best choice:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6707265


7/15 Quinnipiac poll: Democrats would like Clinton as VP, 56% to 33%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6505784


CNN: Poll finds majority of Dems want Obama/Clinton ticket

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/06/poll.obama.clinton/index.html


Getting the picture? I would not have been pointing out that a unity ticket would be best if there wasn't evidence from polls to back that up.

But we don't have it, and we'll try to win with what we have.

Don't try to pretend, though, that the polls didn't show most Dems wanted Clinton on the ticket.

[JerseygirlCT]

83. Couple of things

I'm not a Clinton hater, although I certainly disliked their campaign.

And I completely disagree that should would have been a stronger choice. Remember that as passionately as her supporters feel about her, there's an almost equal number who actively dislike her out there - in the larger world. She starts with a near 50% deficit - people who would not have voted for her, period.

Finally, I think especially now that it's critically important not to confuse Hillary Clinton and her supporters. No reason really to jump on her - she's doing what she needs to do. I'd like to see a bit more passion there myself, but I don't think we can really complain. These supporters (even that might not be a precise name for them), OTOH... there's no reason whatsoever not to complain about them and even attacking them is NOT attacking the person they've made the center of their cult of personality. I think Clinton would like to differentiate between her and these people.

If they're foolish enough and selfish enough to put sulking ahead of the best for the country, then to be honest, they deserve whatever they get.

[Egnever]

25. Not to worry. this is the last week you will ever see mcain close in the polls

It would be nice if Clinton would be a little more outspoken on these groups instead of having staffer put out "statements" but Obama/biden are on the job now and this thing is about to become a landslide.

[Fired Up Democrat]

32. it is columbus dispatch

I'm in columbus and the pulse is good here for obama...columbus is becoming more and more progressive though. however in stark county canton ohio region which is my hometown its a different story. mccain has way more ads on here. it is time to spend some money.

[Jakes Progress]

33. Oh, I know how to get the votes.

Let's tell them to fuck off. Then call them ugly names. That always works. We can just pout and pout that tell them that they ought to be grateful that we defeated their nasty old candidate. I know that if Hillary had won the primary and her supporters kept calling Obama names and telling me I was stupid and ungrateful, that I would just welcome the chance to come groveling back.

Of course some losers tell us to try to win them over. To hell with that. They lost and should be punished just like we did with the Europeans after WWII. We don't need no Jesus crap about forgiveness and unity. Beat them till they love you. If not and we lose the election, just think of all the fun we can have blaming them for the loss. It's a win win for us. Boo Yah. We rule.

[QC]

55. Fuckin' A, dude! U S A! U S A! U S A! n/t

[IdClaire]

39. Blame Hillary? I think not.

Its ultimately up to the person at the top of the ticket to persuade people to vote for them. And can we please take a deep breath? Its August not November. Polls change all the time and it is really close.

[Arugula Latte]

42. No, if people are Democrats and don't want a third Bush term, they should vote for the nominee.

They shouldn't have to have their little hands held and their delicate sensibilities stroked and have the smelling salts held under their pert little noses.

[darius15]

44. That's the issue

Not everyone views McCain as a third Bush term. In fact, a lot of people think he's a moderate and a maverick. If he was thought of as a "generic republican" he'd be down by 10 points.

[Arugula Latte]

63. Well, real Democrats would be able to see that lie for the crap it is. nt

[Franks Wild Years]

64. Indeed. Every 'Democrat' who votes for McCain...

...because they are bitter about Clinton's loss is wholeheartedly endorsing Bush's policy. They are as responsible as Bush himself for every last negative action he's taken against the US and indeed the rest of his world in his reign. They're 'good people' in the same way Dick Cheney & John Ashcroft are.

[Joe the Revelator]

47. Hillary needs to take control of her "people"

She bred this discontent, she needs to help fix it.

[darius15]

41. Ohio is real close

the next few months are gonna be exciting!

And stop blaming Hillary! She's out campaigning for Obama, speaking at the convention, etc. What the hell do you expect from her?

[babsbunny]

45. Dispatch= Republican Propaganda!

They are slowly losing business, and laying off employees!

[rockymountaindem]

49. Everybody's fighting the last war with this Ohio stuff. This election is all about the west.

I know that I may seem a little biased in this regard, but let me take this opportunity that the Kerry States + Iowa + New Mexico + Colorado = Obama victory. Florida and Ohio aren't needed for us to win. We're polling ahead in Iowa and New Mexico is practically in the bag. That means, IMHO, that Colorado really is the most important state for us to win. Unlike Florida, the Governor's office and Supreme Court are Democratic-controlled, so there's less chance for anything fishy to happen. It's also pretty inexpensive to buy airtime here, and the relatively small population means that campaign visits will have a larger relative impact. Obama was ahead in most polls until this recent slump and our state is eminently winnable. The convention will give us a large boost here. Lastly, there aren't as many embittered Clinton supporters because Obama won the caucus here with 66% of the vote. So, party unity is less of an issue.

Florida and Ohio would be, in my opinion, a money pit.

[Thrill]

54. Oh well then we'll all have to go through life. With a conservative Supreme Court

Say Goodbye to Rove v Wade

[Drunken Irishman]

58. Guys, the thing to get out of this vote is that Obama only trails by 1!

Forget Clinton for right now. This is a very good poll for Obama!

[Thrill]

61. You can't forget. If you look it at

He would probably be up by 6-7 points there if they would come home. Which means all their negative attacks on him aren't working on Independents.

[Drunken Irishman]

65. But it's August!

If it were October, I'd be freaking out. But it's August!

[Stop Cornyn]

60. I wish like hell Obama had picked Strickland.

[Awsi Dooger]

87. Strickland didn't want it

But yeah, I wish like hell we'd use the VP pick for strategic purposes. There are always the stuffy reasons to avoid doing so, then you look up and are desperate for 3 points in a vital state, exactly what a favorite son brings.

This was always the variable in nominating Obama, that he faired worse than Hillary in critical swing states like Ohio and Florida. My Excel model indicated that he needed to be at least a half point better than Hillary in the national margin just to have the same likelihood as Hillary in the electoral college. Of course, it's debatable where Hillary would be in relation to McCain at this point, or on election day. I have no interest in empty speculation like that.

As long as normalcy reigns, Obama should win nationally by 2-3 points and that should be enough to pull Ohio.

[Stop Cornyn]

88. That only says one more positive thing about Strickland's judgment; he had to be persuadable.

[my3boyz]

68. Racist..bitter people! nt

[mvd]

69. Could they steal Ohio like last time?

It helps to not have Blackwell. But a one point McCain lead would be the perfect theft margin.

[Hippo_Tron]

93. Democrats run the state government, I don't see how they could steal it

[mtnester]

99. Matt Damschroeder

still works as an election boss in Franklin County...that is how

Election Protection work is NOT done in Ohio

[elkston]

72. For highplainsdem - I'm not saying all the Clinton holdouts are racists.

But this particular strain of them, in the mountains of WV, in Kentucky, in parts of Ohio. They carry the stain of racial distrust.

Its so obvious its not even funny.

The other group are older white women who truly gave their hearts to Hillary. She was their champion, a symbol for their struggle in life and the possibility to overcome. Having the victory snatched away by a close margin has truly broken them. Many will never support Barack enthusiastically. The best we can hope for is to convince them to cast a begrudging vote by default.

[adapa]

86. Consider for a moment that perhaps, just perhaps Obama hasn't won the base?

But go right a head blaming us Hillary supporters I would expect nothing less.

[Hippo_Tron]

92. Chill out, that's 17% undecided which is a very large amount

People still haven't made up their minds about Obama yet. His speech on Thursday will bring them a lot closer to doing so.

[GeniusLib]

96. When Obama finds a coherent and progressive stance on NAFTA and trade issues

his support in Ohio will begin to increase substantially