GOP saying Obama/Biden is first ticket in 68 yrs without military experience- Can we debunk this?

[highplainsdem]

Personally, I don't think this is likely to make much difference to those voters most likely to vote for Obama anyway.

But since the Rethugs know Biden has been added to the ticket for his experience, they're apparently deciding to go after his lack of military experience.

Anyway, does anyone here know enough about the military experience of both the nominee and the VP on past tickets to debunk this one, so at least that "68 years" part of it can be debunked?

I hadn't heard this attack on the ticket before. It turned up minutes ago when I was checking Google News for stories on Obama, and it's the headline of a piece at Town Hall by Michael Medved:

http://michaelmedved.townhall.com/blog/g/11acdf10-67e7-4148-90fe-d9bc28d7dc0c

Medved's suggesting Republicans "make a big deal" of this.

If we can't debunk the number of years it's been since there was a ticket where neither running mate had military experience, is there a good example from earlier years of a GREAT ticket, a winning ticket and a successful presidency, where neither running mate had any military experience?

[Emit]

1. Did either Bush or Cheney serve in the military?

Or am I missing something? :shrug:

On edit, aside from Bush's natl guard experience, that is, but we all know what a farce that was.

[sufrommich]

4. Good point. Cheney "had better things to do". nt

[GarbagemanLB]

5. Bush served in the elite Champaigne unit, don't you know? Their heroic acts are legendary.

[GreenPartyVoter]

135. Too bad more people don't

know just how shameful his "service" was: http://www.bushflash.com/topgun.html

[BadgerKid]

38. No wonder they effed things up.

This tactic will backfire.

[jakem]

100. well, they have started several wars...

this is the only response needed.

[mikekohr]

116. Bush is a Deserter and Cheney a Five Time Draft Dodger

They're both asssholes also.

mike kohr

[Cha]

120. bush was AWOL and at the Repuke Convention in

2004 the republicon hags wore Purple Bandaids to diss our Military and those who served and are serving with Honor.

They better just Shut The Fuck UP and carry on with their Paris and Britney ads.

[Mugsy]

121. AWOL Bush and 5 deferments Cheney

Does Medved REALLY want to go down that road?

[silverlil]

124. President Kennedy

was in the military. Ronald Reagan was NOT in the military, he was in the 'make believe military'.
I now have the same perception towards, William and Harry .... George Bush type of service.

I have been married all of my life to a military man, but why is this an issue? We need a person to take this country back. McCain was 4th from last in his class.... and we have seen what our current President has done to this country.

I still wanted General Clark, but I will vote for this ticket.

Our biggest issue is going to be voting for Senator Obama because he is black. I voted for him in February, Edwards was my first choice, but when he dropped out that weekend, I had to make a decision and I voted for Senator Obama. And if you are wondering why he was not my first choice, I found him timid, and I still do. Kissing up to Israel, the FISA problem and last weekend when he knew McCain was not in the building... where was the toss of the coin? I am no longer religious. This lying Pastor had taken care of McCain, and this is going to cost Obama with the poor white people.

For what it is worth, I sat in the back of the bus in Georgia on my way to work, we only had one car back in 1960 and I hear the loudspeaker now, that I had to come to the front of the bus. I refused. On my job, I got called on the carpet when I worked for lawyers in Georgia because I always used a Mr. Mrs. or Miss, and lawyers back then did not want to come to the front office to greet a black man. I had 1 hour lunch duty at the reception desk back in those days.

Race is going to be our main issue.

[XOKCowboy]

131. We'll never know about Bush's service.. The records have been purged

Technically the RW can claim Bush was in the service but from what other airmen who served with him have said any regular (meaning Daddy's not connected) airman who did what he did would have been in the brig for a long time. We'll never know though because somehow his records are gone. Just a coincidence of course.

[sarge43]

138. Enough of them got out before the purge.

The orders removing him from flight status and why. The NG analog to the DD Form 214, discharging him from the ANG and transferring him to the inactive reserves. That's an administrative dog's breakfast. He didn't even sign the thing. The paper trail requesting his reassignment from the TX to the AL ANG which comes to a dead stop just it heads toward the Air Reserve Personnel Headshed (ARPC). His TX ANG commander's tap dance answer when ARPC wanted to know where his annual report card was. ARPC wouldn't have asked that touchy question if it had approved a reassignment to AL and only it had that authority. Plus, some other interesting stuff.

You're right. Had any other first louie pulled the shit he did, the brig would have been the best he could have hoped for.

[Renew Deal]

2. Since FDR and Truman?

Sounds like we might be on to something.

[hedgehog]

8. Truman served in WWI .

[Renew Deal]

18. Who ran with FDR in 1940?

Republicans aren't known for their math skills.

[hedgehog]

27. Henry Wallace

[Bad Thoughts]

136. Roosevelt was assistant secretary of the Navy

Not a combat vet, but neither is W.

[napi21]

3. Aaaaa...Bush/Cheney?

[GoesTo11]

49. Bad example.

Don't want to say that Obama/Biden will be as savvy about military strategy and as sensitive to the costs of war as those two were.

[countingbluecars]

6. Bush/Cheney

Oh that's right-Bush was in the National Guard when it suited.

[terrya]

7. Um, Bush/Cheney?

And asshole's Texas National Guard experience doesn't count. Since he was absent from it for quite a long stretch.

McAsshole should not go there since his hero and his administration cannot count for any military experience. And his hero Vice President couldn't be bothered to go to Vietnam.

[cyberpj]

9. Clinton too? nt

[Lucinda]

10. Gore served

[Orangepeel]

42. although they sure denigrated his service in Vietnam when they ran against him n/t

[Lucinda]

87. Yep. Look what they did with Kerrys service. I read a piece somewhere online last night

about the Reps moving away from hitting our weaker areas and going straight to the strength and trying to diffuse it. They did it with Kerry and are trying to do it with O. In O's case, the fact that he's popular and draws huge crowds is a strength that they are trying to diffuse. Hence the "celebrity" angle...

[terrya]

11. Reagan also didn't have milltary experience.

Unless you count making war propaganda movies on the lot at Warner Brothers "military experience"

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

The question is tickets. Bush I was in WWII

[Lucinda]

19. Regan and Bush both were in the service.

[sufrommich]

22. Didn't Reagan "serve" by making commercials

for the military?

[Lucinda]

31. Wont matter to the point of their attack. He had vision problems and still served,

I think he was nearsighted...

[sufrommich]

66. I didn't know that about Reagan. I suppose they could use

Drunkmonkey's low IQ as a reason for his serving in the National Guard, on paper only, as a legitimate excuse. Sounds right to me.

[Lucinda]

85. Yep. Juniors "real" service, or lack thereof is a good counter

The others - not so much.

[Monk06]

127. Reagan had vision problems alright. He could see his ass getting shot off

if he actually fought in the war.

The list of stars that actually fought
in WWII is huge in relative terms.

http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/actors_in_wwii.html

[CK_John]

59. I think was still in the Army. n/t

[whistler162]

96. Yes, Reagan's eyesight kept him out of active combat duty....

He was however a reservist from about 1938 until the mid-1950's and resigned after being passed over twice for promotion.

[highplainsdem]

29. His running mate, Bush Sr., did. This attack is counting running mates (as they have to do

because of their hero Reagan).

Medved has a list in that article of the military experience the nominees and running mates had. I don't know how accurate it is, whether it can be debunked to drastically shorten the "68 years" part of this attack.

And again, I'm hoping there's some great example of a ticket where neither the nominee nor VP had any military experience -- and still won, and led the country brilliantly during crises -- even if we have to go back more than 68 years.

[terrya]

32. I guess you'd have to go back to the earliest years of the United States.

I don't believe Thomas Jefferson did. I don't think any of the Founding Fathers as Presidents, excepting of course, Washington, actually served in the military.

I'm sorry. I wish I could be more help to you.

[wmbrew0206]

77. I think Jefferson was a Commander in the Virginia Militia

[Skidmore]

12. Ah, jeeez, those people are congenitally stupid.

[Lucinda]

13. They will work every angle to find one that sticks. This WILL matter to some

but they weren't very likely to be voting Dem anyway...

[woodsprite]

14. All the more reason to introduce the whole Obama Team (cabinet)

during the convention. What about Clark for his military experience? Add Webb in there and watch the repubs seeth, even throw in PA's Sestak.

(army) http://www.clark04.com/about/
(marines) http://webb.senate.gov/jim/
(navy) http://joesestak.com/about-joe/

And about 75 years of accumulated military experience!

Can anybody come up with someone from the AF or Coast Guard?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. Sounds correct. Also first ticket without a male WASP.

[saltpoint]

16. Lincoln, a Republican. How much military experience did he bring

to the White House upon election?

[Renew Deal]

24. Lincoln fought in the Blackhawk War

http://www.geocities.com/old_lead/abe.htm

[saltpoint]

30. Yes, a limited militia gig, true.

[sarge43]

98. He allowed he spent more time fighting mosquitoes than Indians. n/t

[fascisthunter]

17. why should we????

military experience is not necessary... look at Bush and his military experience. A lot good that did...

[Thrill]

20. No need to debunk. How many times has McCain said its not necessary when

he was out there defending Bush.

[Renew Deal]

21. Biden was rejected for medical reasons

"Delaware Sen. Joe Biden: None. Rejected for medical reasons, but would have been eligible in a national emergency."

http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/apr/28/few-candidates-rsums-include-military-service/

[zbdent]

23. As much as the Repukes went into hysterics over Clinton's avoiding Vietnam,

they were more than happy to excuse the AWOL pResident and his handpicked (by himself) Five-Star Captain Deferrments ...

[Forkboy]

25. Why, is this supposed to be a bad thing?

[AuntPatsy]

26. sheesh, and your worried about such an idiotic statement? Look what they gave us

the past eight years? the only experience those two had was in knowing money and threats equal power and a false self importance toward grandeaur....


the only true thing they have accomplished thus far these past eight years is getting away with murder.....

[scheming daemons]

28. Bullshit... Bush/Cheney had none.

[spartan61]

33. The Dem ticket had military experience in the form of

John Kerry...a decorated war hero. Yet, the GOP did all they could to negate this military experience. All they do is talk out of both sides of their mouths. Geeeessshh!!

[Lint Head]

34. The President is Constitutionally bond to be a civilian.

The President does not enlist in, and he is not inducted or drafted into, the armed forces. Nor, is he subject to court–martial or other military discipline. On the contrary, Article II, section 4 of the Constitution provides that ‘The President, and All Civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of Treason, Bribery or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. :dem:

[sarge43]

99. That's why Eisenhower had to resign his commission when he ran.

Five stars were on permanent active duty status - full pay, all the perks. Kennedy reinstated the commission as one of his first acts as CinC.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. Every thread you post is negative about Obama. It's time to stop this shit

Either get behind the Democratic ticket or keep your negativity to yourself!!

[mkultra]

80. no kidding!

but hes not a troll, lol. I think hes the best "concern troll" ive seen yet.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

36. So even if you're a giant fuckup in the military like both Bushes and McCain, that counts?

[monomach]

79. Bush, Sr. wasn't a fuckup.

Attacking Republicans is good. Lying in order to do it is bad.

Bush, Sr. lost three planes but had pretty good excuses for all of them.

For one of them: Bush, Sr. was sent on a mission to bomb an island with heavy anti-aircraft cover. Even after being hit, he kept attacking. He ended up destroying his target. He had to ditch his plane in the ocean on his way back to his carrier because of the damage the flak cannons had done. This one's the Japanese's fault.

Another: In training, his landing gear collapsed. Blame the wrench-benders for that one. Not a whole lot you can do there.

Another: Bush, Sr. called off the launching crew on his carrier because he had no oil pressure. They catapulted him, anyway. No oil pressure = no flying. He made a controlled ditching in the water right next to a destroyer escorting his carrier so they could pick up his crew. This one's on the deck crew.

Bush, Sr.'s military experience was generally that of an actual war-hero. Bush Jr. and McCain do, however, qualify as fuckups. You had them right.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

101. Perhaps I'm misinformed but I am not a liar.

The only story I'd ever heard about GHWB's service was that he bailed early on his crew and was plucked out of the ocean sometime later.
Here's one similar recounting I just looked up to make sure I hadn't imagined it (and I'm not saying it's true, just that this version of his story is out there).

As cited on Democratic Veteran http://www.usndemvet.com/blog/archives/000656.html, Bush 41:

• Panicked and bailed out of his flack-damaged, but flyable, Avenger warplane before two subordinate crewmembers could jump, causing radioman John Delaney and tail gunner Ted White to die in the resulting crash at sea.
• Embellished the Chichi Jima mission to win the DistinguishedFlyingCross.
• Failed to recommend his dead men for similar medals of valor.
• Rode an exaggerated war story to the White House.
• Obliterated the memory of Delaney and White along the way.
• Defamed Chester Mierzejewski, honorable Navy veteran and decorated Avenger tail gunner who, from his plane just behind Bush’s, saw Bush Sr. bail out and told the truth during the 1988 presidential campaign.

Your version of history may be the correct one but "lying" was not my intention.

[themaguffin]

37. the way to respond is to bring up how tragically incompetent McCain & the GOP are

[LowerManhattanite]

39. This is sad and predictable...

...on the part of the original wingnut spin, and its being dragged here ostensibly out of “concern”, but considering the OP's history, more than likely out of a bit of “my choice didn't make the cut” griefing.

Bill Clinton's lack of military service, and in fact his being unabashedly against the Vietnam War, drew heavy flak from the right—so much so that many assumed Gore didn't serve either. He of course, did, but it didn't matter. And it won't matter here either in 2008. Whether the VP pick had been Richardson, Edwards or Clinton, we'd be hearing the same mewling from the right as neither of them donned olive drab either, and quite honestly...military experience just ain't the plus it used to be electorally anyway.

Ask Bob Dole and unfortunately, John Kerry.

In the end, it's quite the non-issue.

[jemsan]

40. Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Franklin Roosevelt, Bill Clinton...

never had any previous military experience...12 presidents in all had none.

[wmbrew0206]

78. Jefferson did.

Here is a list of Presidents and those who served in the military
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents_by_military_service

[treestar]

41. Military experience is not necessary, in fact, it's a bad thing

In the military, you get unquestioned obedience. That is not available to the President. The President should be used to negotiating.

It was one of the good arguments against Ross Perot. As CEO of a company, he did not always have to convince people; they would do what he wanted. In the military, that is even more pronounced.

[demwing]

45. Bad idea. Then you're seen as anti-military.

Simply point out that military service does not automatically equate to good judgment. Then ask - McCain has the honorable service, so why does he want to continue the failed policies of George Bush?

We can do better.

[treestar]

51. How come? I'm not anti-military

Once you join the military, you are committed to doing what you are told. When in command, others will do the same for you. But it doesn't mean you can be a persuader and a diplomat. In fact, you've gotten used to unquestinoed obedience and worse, unquestioningly obey your own superiors.

It's honorable to do that while in the military. You could have to do things you don't think are wise or good, but you do it for the sake of the overall effectiveness of the military. The experience just doesn't prepare you for the Presidency, where you won't get that.

[demwing]

54. Its about perceptions.

and managing them.

If you say "Military experience is bad" you'll be perceived as anti-military.

If you say "McCain has an honorable record, but it never gave him the judgement to question Bush's failed policies" you make the same point, bring the argument back to where you want it, and come across as pro-service to your country. Win-Win.

[treestar]

108. Well don't say it's bad, but point out that it's not connected to

doing well as President. It's a different thing. Apples and oranges.

[demwing]

118. On that we agree

without a doubt :)

[demwing]

43. Why debunk the truth?

and play the game by the GOP rules?

Instead, grab the truth, and change it from a label of shame into a badge of honor? Point out how the Repukes, with their combined military experience, have not successfully resolved Iraq or caught Bin Laden?

And then intercut with clip after clip of McCain vowing to continue this administration's directions.

End with - "What good comes with military service, if it doesn't bring good judgement?"

[Hatchling]

44. Ah, but who has a child serving in Irag? No the GOPers.

But our Joe has a son who has given up an AG job to go serve. You tell me which story is going to sell better?

[ruggerson]

48. I think McCain has a kid in Iraq

[wmbrew0206]

81. McCain has two sons. One is in Iraq right now and the other is at USNA

and will probably ended up in the PG or Iraq after graduation.

[sarge43]

46. As far as it goes, they're right except it's 64 years

A couple of provisos

1. The WWII generation: Considering o/a 10% of the US population served (16 million), you'd be hard put to find any healthy young man from that time who didn't serve. So, from Eisenhower to Poppy, you have WWII vets. Eyes to God, we never repeat that one.

2. Since WWII, no where near those numbers had military experience, even during Korea and Nam, ergo much smaller pool of vets from those time periods who came to age for elective office. So, by the nature of things we are going to have CinC's who haven't been in service. BFD.

3. What is meant by military service? With the probable exception of Bush the Younger, apparently all those men did their duty as it was given to them to do, even Reagan who was as blind as a bat. It gets trickier when we start talking combat; the number drops considerably. Eisenhower, for example, never saw a day's worth.

4. What does military service have to do with executive ability or even military competency? I've known command officers who shouldn't have been let outdoors without a keeper let alone run anything more elaborate than a latrine detail; they were an utter waste of the tax payer's coins.

5. Finally, since WWII this nation hasn't been in a war or glorified battle that wasn't a clusterfuck, a bloody break even, a sham or a joke. All that military experience didn't seem to do any good. Speaking of WWII, that was the last one we walked away from trailing clouds of glory and it was conducted by a CinC who never served a day.

This career noncom could give a rat's ass about a candidate's military service, if any. I want that person to have smarts, imagination, a yard of guts and the realization that war is not a fucking video game.

[vaberella]

47. Correction, BC/AG wrong, AG served. I still say GW/Cheney Trash news. n/t

[Liberal Dose]

50. Al Gore served and actually spent 5 months in Vietnam. Had Al Gore crashed a plane and been captured

by the enemy, then failed to escape, he would be touted by the GOP as a war hero. (Yes, I know he was a Journalist. I was a JO in the Navy. Did you know that military journalists are only armed with a .45? Yeah, thrown into the middle of conflict with only a handgun.) Rethuglican math skills are atrocious.

[LynneSin]

52. and in 2000/2004 we were told Military expereience was a waste of time

Hell we had ugly old women put purple band-aids on their chin in order to mock a decorated War Hero.

Which is it? Military good or bad?

[sandnsea]

95. We had our own Dems

advise against talking about military service, which they were busy destroying our candidate's military service. We have stupid advisors, really stupid. They just do not understand the hypocrisy of Republicans. I think it would be great if Obama ran an ad exposing their attacks on the military service of Dems, that they are now praising.

[Canuckistanian]

112. Indeed.

Which is it?

[LynneSin]

114. Could you see the press if our delegates mocked POWs like they did with Purple Hearts

I try not be be judgemental but she is probably one of the ugliest woman I have ever seen. And not just from her fat, blotchy, wrinkly skin on the outside but the fact that she lacks no heart and no brains, because if she had either of those she would have realized that she was insulting every soldier who has ever earned a purple heart including our troops currently in Iraq.

[MichDem10]

53. Who the hell cares...

Article II Section 1 of the US CONSTITUTION states the qualifications for being POTUS:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of the President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office how shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a Resident inside the United States."

NO PLACE IN THE CONSTITUTION DOES IT STATE YOU MUST HAVE MILITARY EXPERIENCE TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

[democrattotheend]

55. Find quotes from 2004 where they minimized Kerry's service

I've been fretting about the fact that we have so many Democrats on record from 2004 saying that Kerry was more qualified than Bush because he served in the military, but the flip side of that is, we probably have some Republicans, including John McCain, disagreeing.

[democrattotheend]

64. Found the quote

It's actually from 1999, but it still works:

- I believe that military service is the most honorable endeavor an American may undertake. But I’ve never believed that lack of military service disqualifies one from occupying positions of political leadership or as Commander and Chief. In America, the people are sovereign, and they decide who is and is not qualified to lead us.


He also said this in 2003:
- During an interview with National Journal, John McCain was asked if “military service inherently makes somebody better equipped to be commander-in-chief.” McCain said, “Absolutely not…I absolutely don’t believe that it’s necessary.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/01/mccain-v-clark-qualifications/

[AlphaCentauri]

56. Military experience won't fix the economy

[last1standing]

57. Easy. "There's John McCain, asking for More of the Same".

"Four more years of war without end.

Four more years of ignoring our economy.

Four more years of frightening the American people.

Can you afford four more years of the same?"

Seems like an easy one to me.

[Radical Activist]

58. Good. We're nearing fascism and some non-military leadership will do us some good.

[JaneQPublic]

60. Did Nixon serve? (I thought he was a Quaker).

Of course, Spiro T. Agnew may have served. Anyone know?

[RedShoes]

67. Spiro Agnew DID serve in the war (as a democrat, of course) He switched parties when he

returned back to Baltimore County to run for Judge for the Circuit Court. He finished last in a five way race.

[wmbrew0206]

83. Nixon was in the Navy in WWII

[sarge43]

89. Nixon, supply officer, Pacific backwaters.

His mother was a Quaker; Dick, not so much.

[Spazito]

61. Biden already spelled it out...

Biden: "These times require more than a GOOD SOLDIER - they require a WISE LEADER."

nuff said, imo.

[yardwork]

62. Who cares? Look what the "military experienced" tickets have wrought.

We make this a non-issue by pointing out that it's a non-issue. Many veterans are strongly in favor of Obama. They've seen what Bush/Cheney has done.

[Beaverhausen]

63. Timothy McVeigh had military experience- just saying

Military experience isn't always a good thing.

[democrattotheend]

65. Easy - use McCain's own quotes

- "I believe that military service is the most honorable endeavor an American may undertake. But I’ve never believed that lack of military service disqualifies one from occupying positions of political leadership or as Commander and Chief. In America, the people are sovereign, and they decide who is and is not qualified to lead us."


He also said this in 2003:
- During an interview with National Journal, John McCain was asked if “military service inherently makes somebody better equipped to be commander-in-chief.” McCain said, “Absolutely not…I absolutely don’t believe that it’s necessary.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/01/mccain-v-clark-qual... /

[Beaverhausen]

68. you should start a thread using these quotes

great find!

[democrattotheend]

74. Good idea. Done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6730087

[Beaverhausen]

76. oops-I stared one too. I'll delete mine

[blondeatlast]

69. Hey, if they want to bring up FDR, who am I to complain? Anyone? nt

[eleny]

70. It's about time

[Overseas]

71. Well that Texas Air National Guard fella sure has been great, hasn't he?

And Chickenhawk death merchant Cheney I guess would say being Sec Def before gives him military experience.

[Darth_Ole]

73. They're referring to the 1940 Roosevelt/Wallace ticket, I guess...

They're criticizing the ticket that, in the mist of the Depression, simultaneously defeated the Germans, Japanese, and Italians in a three and a half year period.

So, in the McCain camp's own words, Obama=FDR? Great!

[riverdale]

133. navy

Wilson appointed FDR Assistant Secretary of the Navy in 1913, a position he held until 1920.

[jillan]

72. Biden's son is deploying to Iraq next month.

Let's see who McNutcase picks for vp.

[Quixote1818]

91. I was going to post the same thing. I think that trumps the claim above. nt

[Stop Cornyn]

75. No.

[RedShoes]

82. DEMS say McCain/Whoever Ticket is the First one with a Mentally Deficient Nominee Since Reagan. nt

[opihimoimoi]

84. The GOP always finds nits to picks...whine whine whine...framin, herding, steering

Its not gonna make the diff this time....people are not that STUPID

[moondust]

86. Military background may actually be a liability.

Somebody like McCain who has SOME military experience but not high-level experience may be inclined to BELIEVE he is a military expert and try to micromanage military operations.

Case in point:

ADOLPH HITLER WAS A CORPORAL WHO LATER AS FUHRER TRIED TO MICROMANAGE LARGE-SCALE MILITARY OPERATIONS WITH DISASTROUS RESULTS.

[Thothmes]

129. Case in point:

LBJ was a naval officer, he use to plan air strikes in Vietnam from the oval office.

[BlooInBloo]

88. (shrug) I prefer people with no (officer) military experience for POTUS...

So it's not an issue for me.

[LibraLiz1973]

90. Wait.. wait... Are they SERIOUSLY saying Bush/Cheney had military experience???

WHAT THE FUCK??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

:banghead:

[sarge43]

92. Well, technically Bush did - commission in the TX ANG

He did go thru AF basic training -- pause here until the Army, Navy and especially the USMC vets stopped :rofl:. No officer training, by the way. He learned to fly planes, although I'd pay good money to know what ratings his flight training no neck monsters gave him. Then, one weekend a month he farted around the dangerous skies of Texas until he dodged his flight physical and was permanently grounded. Who knows what he did after that - probably walked around with a clip board. Poppy got him a slot at Harvah Bidness Skool and he bailed on an early out.

Cheney - hey, it's no fun shooting at people who might shoot back.

[CreekDog]

93. you read Michael Medved regularly?

sheesh. if i read those sites regularly, all i would be doing is debunking.

[highplainsdem]

128. As I believe I mentioned in the OP, I was combing Google News for stories about Obama,

which I've spent a lot of time doing, and I've posted a lot of topics about favorable articles about Obama, his wife, and even his campaign manager, that people have thanked me for here.

And then there are the people who prefer to just gripe about there being even one former Clinton supporter left here and still daring to post.

Get over it.

The Medved column turned up this morning while I was checking Google News (you might try it yourself some time, just go to Google News and serch for stories on Obama). This looked like something the GOP would use, and I asked people here if it could be debunked -- whether they knew if anything Medved posted there was wrong, or if they knew of a ticket we could refer to where neither presidential nor VP nominee had military experience.

What IS your problem?

I've seen lots of people post here to ask about debunking stuff they run into, and I'm damn tired of behavior like yours. I'd rather check Google News, find stories that are favorable -- or if there's some new GOP charge that might be easily debunked, ask about it -- that waste a lot of time posting meaningless, unsubstantiated opinions.

And no, I don't read Medved or Town Hall regularly. I'm not sure I've ever read a Medved column before though I recognize his name.

Thanks for wasting more of my time. Why don't YOU spend some trying to find something favorable about Obama to post -- something factual -- rather than boring everyone with attacks on former Clinton supporters?

[CreekDog]

134. i'm glad you are working so hard to keep me informed

:eyes:

[highplainsdem]

139. Oh, I don't try for the impossible...but I hope others here find the topics interesting.

:)

[CreekDog]

140. touche'

:eyes:

[CreekDog]

94. neither has been in the military, but that's really easy to know

so what's the point of this?

[Ediacara]

97. Roosevelt and Wallace in 1940 didn't have any "military experience"

And we all know what a disaster they were in World War II...

[Waiting For Everyman]

102. It's another of their fake, dreamed-up "requirements", call 'em on it

Bill Clinton was right in pointing back to the Constitution on that. Repubs have no right to revise it. The Constitution writers were smart enough on what the requirements should be, without their help on that now.

[Waiting For Everyman]

103. How 'bout there has NEVER been a candidate 77 years old

[DFW]

104. Bush and Cheney are shining examples

And even McCain's trumpeted "heroism" is little more than making a big
deal of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The Republicans will try to make a big deal out of this, but it can be handled
as long as Obama's team can ward off the need to address it constantly. As long
as we don't let them make it into a big deal, it won't be.

[WinkyDink]

105. Since when must civilian leaders be ex-military? What are we, WWII Japan?

There is NO NEED to "debunk" this, as THAT merely gives the ridiculous, UN-AMERICAN premise creedence.
Thomas Jefferson and FDR weren't in the military, e.g.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/tj3.html
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1578.html

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

106. Michael Medved?? TownHELL.com??

:wtf:

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

107. And this matters why?

Honestly, what in the blue hell does this have to do with anything?

[mw]

109. "GOP is disappointed because they can't Swift Boat a Dem combat vet"

Republicans can't use their "smear the combat service of a combat veteran" card if the Dem doesn't have any combat experience.

[EndElectoral]

110. Irrelevant. Did Lincoln have miltary experience?

[Aviation Pro]

123. Yes, he did....

...Captain in the reserves if I remember correctly.

[Thothmes]

132. actually the Illinois militia during the Black Hawk war.

[mw]

111. Also: Bush (in theory) had mil experience. And he fuked up Iraq.

So what's it matter really?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

113. You could do better than MICHAEL MEDVED for an anti-Dem-ticket post.

:puke:

[Tom Rinaldo]

115. When was the last time someone on a ticket had a child seriving in an active war Zone

Biden's son will be in Iraq soon. I think that is about as sobering a perspective as any national leader can have on war and peace.

[johnaries]

117. Bush didn't have military experience.

Flying trainer planes to avoid combat and then going AWOL to campaign for your dad is NOT "Military Experience".

[sarge43]

125. Yes, he did.

He was qualified on and flew the F-102, Delta Dagger, a POS problem which is why it was dumped on the ANG mid '60's. Whatever else it was, it was no trainer. The Dagger was used early on in Nam. It was operational from 1956 to 1976.

Don't say Bush didn't serve. It's one of the best arguments that military experience doesn't equates to military competency.

[Tennessee Gal]

119. They trashed the military service of both Gore and Kerry.

They should be reminded of that, the sanctimonious jerks.

[Aviation Pro]

122. Who was FDR's VP in 1940? If you guessed Henry Wallace....

...you're correct, and his bio doesn't say anything about military service. FDR, on the other hand, was the Secretary of the Navy. By the way, it's hard to count Preznit Fuckstick's service as 'service' and we all know the five deferment story of Shitstain Shoots-Guy-In-Face.

[silverlil]

126. my second post to you

I am sorry that you have been called a troll. Denial is at hand here. I have already stated my opinion here. One cannot say word against Obama on Daily Kos, and funny because I feel the same as Kos. and it is his website!
Race is going to be the only game in town, not military service. Race ... Black and White. In my opinion it does not matter who Obama picked, it will all boil down to voting for a black man, which I did in February and will do so in November.
And when one goes into that lonely booth, it matters and and I dont know how my age group will vote I am almost 71. My fear is that this large voting block will stay at home or crossover, and girlfriend and husband are staunch democrats, but their eyes glazed over today at our annual American Legion picnic. I mentioned Caroline Kennedy because they are also catholics and I brought up Biden (Clark my choice)... I am scared now, neither one said they would vote for Obama, she is a naturalized US citizen from Ireland and hubby her of 53 years is from New York and over the years they vote in every election, like myself. We can only hope that the age block from 18-25 will turn out in November because this election to my mind will depend on the younger generation who do not see color and will vote for the person they want to be in charge of America, and the elderly will be stuck in a time warp because Obama is black.
End of story.

[McCamy Taylor]

130. Just quote Clarke that being a grunt does not make you fit to be president.

Obama is too young---no major wars in his lifetime, all professional military since the 1980s.

Biden had a medical, I believe. He has been in the Senate running numerous wars.

[barack the house]

137. Biden is considered the most well versed in the military in DC.

[Duder]

141. Medved must not be a deep thinker...

Only one of the front runners during the primary of both parties had military experience and he’s 72. Being an all volunteer military since Vietnam might have something to do with fewer military candidates these days.

As General Clark correctly stated, McCain didn’t have command experience. He was locked up in a room not out leading troops.

Like the expression “don’t fight the last war” suggests, having experience may be as harmful as good because one might adapt and utilize better judgment by not having preconceived ideas when confronted with a new conflict.

And finally I believe those serving and that have served care more about how the Commander in Chief treats them during and after their service than whether they’re electing a veteran or not.

[Froward69]

142. McSame Himself said

military experience was not a prerequisite to hold office.