Recommend this thread if using the term PUMA is grounds for the ignore button.

[DB1]

Time to move on to the convention and make it all anti McCain/Bush ticket, and pro jobs, pro working class, pro sensible foreign policy, pro leadership. Spines of steel I say!

[JohnnyLib2]

1. Almost.

Maybe in a week. :hi:

[blondeatlast]

2. I prefer the scroll key, but you have a point. Same with the RW trial balloonists

and RW idjit guests in general.

Starve 'em out.

[last1standing]

3. Ignoring a problem rarely solves it.

But do what you need to do and I'll carry on with what I do.

:hi:

[DB1]

15. Do you know what PUMA stands for? It is obscene.

[last1standing]

16. The entire concept is obscene, mostly because it's a lie.

This is a group dedicated to helping mccain win the election and they're using a good Democrat as their cover. Of course it's obscene, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it.

John Kerry ignored the swiftboaters who were the 2004 version of PUMA. They lied about his record, they smeared his reputation, and they did it all in the media with little or no response from the Kerry camp. That was a fatal mistake that we can't let happen again.

I know there aren't many PUMAs. It's an astroturf organization, owned and operated by the repubs - just like the swiftboaters. That doesn't mean a few vocal liars and a pliant media outlet or two can't cause problems. How many members of the swiftboaters were there? How much damage did they do?

Every time one of these liars comes to this board, spreading bullshit and creating chaos, I'm going to call them out. I'm also going to remind others of exactly how disgusting they are at every opportunity.

Perhaps if we had done more of that in 2004 we'd be saying "Four more years" instead of "No more of the same".

[Life Long Dem]

17. But the thing is. A lot of the supporters Hillary had are pursauded

by PUMA in what they say. Lets face it, if you support someone and a group is trying to do something for your candidate, then your going to jump on the band wagon. That is what is causing the division here - and who knows where else - and the media picks it up and it goes in circles until we ignore it here, and stop this BS now.

[last1standing]

18. There are two problems with your opinion.

First, there aren't a lot of Hillary supporters who have fallen for PUMA, there are only a very few who would have gone that route regardless because they have no firm values or beliefs. These few "real supporters" looked to Hillary more as a cult leader than a candidate. The vast majority of her supporters are now doing what Hillary is doing - supporting Obama.

Second, PUMA and Just Say No Deal are fully funded astroturf organizational arms of the republican party. They are being foisted on us by a pliant media that has been doing the repubs bidding for years. Ignoring this will not make them go away any more than an ostrich hiding it's head in the sand makes a predator disappear.

We either learn the lesson that the 2004 campaign or we make the same mistake. I don't plan to be a part of that.

Do you?

[Life Long Dem]

24. I don't know if I would compare PUMA to swiftboaters.

As far as how PUMA intends to cause division if we ignore them and don't give them any fuel. Besides the fact that they cause a disturbance here between primary supporters of Hillary and primary supporters of Obama over policy or whatever. Not to say they will go to PUMA, but only to say that this disturbance gives them fuel and we shouldn't fuel it.

Now if PUMA is the same as the swiftboaters, and MSM is giving them free ads, then if no H supporters are going to H, then MSM will do what they want regardless of what we do. So what would it matter what we did?

Not to say it will cause damage no matter what we do, but I'd still side with just ignoring them, unless...

[last1standing]

30. Are you really suggesting we let them spread lies in here without a response?

Once again, ignoring the problem will not make it go away. You may not think PUMA compares to the swiftboaters but you haven't explained how they're different.

Both are GOP covers meant to use people who seem like they should be voting Democratic to attack the nominee where he should be strongest. They use lies and twist meanings in order to subvert the Democratic message.

We can't just wish PUMA away. They will use any opportunity we give them to cause chaos.

[Life Long Dem]

31. They don't need any attention. Ignore them.

[last1standing]

32. No thanks. I won't repeat that mistake.

You ignore them if you like. You can even ignore me and that's fine, but I'm going to call out their lies every time I see them.

And I'm really starting to wonder why you're so adamant that they go unchallenged.

[Life Long Dem]

37. Will someone tell me the attacks PUMA is doing?

Besides US making it an issue?

[Life Long Dem]

38. Right now I don't hear any defense over this from the Obama campaign

But PUMA's attack is division, and in order for us to not cause this division, we ignore them, or they cause primary H supporters issues, and this is the attack that is in the news. When H supporters are upset, caused by PUMA.

It's an attack online, and we need to learn to control it online or we are doomed in division!
:scared:

:wow:

[last1standing]

39. Interesting. In one post you ask what they're doing and in the next you answer your own question.

They sow division.

They come into DU posting lies and smears about our candidate. They pump up any bad news they can get ahold of and use quotes out of context to insinuate that Obama isn't a good Democrat.

When we ignore them some people will never find out that the posts they make are lies so they will believe them and support Democrats less.

Now please tell me how that is a good thing.

[Zhade]

35. Agreed. We can't let lies go unchecked.

Every time someone lies about Obama, either that he "was selected by the media" (no, he was chosen fair and square by the voters) or that he "lost the popular vote" (nope, that would be clinton who lost - in every single metric), it's an attack on the legitimacy of our nominee.

Those attacks will not go unanswered.

[diddlysquat]

4. With this logic...

You would be the first one put on "ignore".

[DB1]

5. Not including this post of course. LOL

[quakerboy]

6. Puma Puma PUMA

Hah. You cant make me turn around and look. I don't believe in them. ptttb.

[mkultra]

7. no thanks. The actualy "concern trolls" are a bigger problem

than PUMA alarmists. Focus on priorities. Fix one and the other will stop.

[dubeskin]

8. It seems I've been adsent too long...that means?

I guess coming back yesterday was too soon. What exactly does this "PUMA" mean?

[DB1]

9. See link...

<http://politicalpistachio.blogspot.com/2008/07/puma-clinton-supporters-share-with.html>

[dubeskin]

10. Thanks

I agree. That's a terrible phrase. Too bad that even someone like Biden can't heal the wounds.

[DB1]

11. I think Biden will excite a lot of the older Reagan dems and Reagan lovers,,

He has that " I paid for this microphone" type of persona. Alot of Hillary's supporters may have been Reagan Dems.

[LibraLiz1973]

20. Thanks for that, I had NO clue

[last1standing]

23. Take that with a grain of salt.

PUMA is an astroturf organization founded by a mccain supporter. Also, mccain uses them quite often for effect, as he will do again tonight when he launched a new ad aimed at Hillary supporters.

The entire point it to demoralize as many Democrats as possible using Hillary Clinton as the excuse.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

22. Let me put this succinctly:

Will Bower is a whiny, self-indulgent and apparently clueless gay man who is working against his own best interests while ignoring the clear evidence of the last disastrous eight years of repuke orthodoxy and rule.

There is nothing to like about him, he makes no points worthy of sober consideration and he obviously has a load in his diapers you couldn't shift with a D-7 Caterpillar. He is also a proven liar, as he lied, on national TV(Faux) about the 10 Million dollars PUMA raised, when they had only raised 57 Thousand. A slight but noticeable discrepancy.

May he wander the political and literary wildernesses, half-mad and spittle-flecked, for the rest of his days. Which will be all too long, even if he slips this vale of tears in the next half hour.

Succinct enough?

[Zhade]

36. Pathetic Uninformed Mewling Assholes.

Right?

[applegrove]

12. I hope that we don't use the word or talk about them. We need to move

on and not stir the pot. They need to heal and heel.

[Jim Lane]

13. I disagree. PUMA provides the occasional comic relief.

Earlier this week, one of their supporters was out of touch for several hours. I assume she had a dead cell phone or something. The PUMA types were earnestly exchanging their concerns about this -- how maybe Dean and Obama had done something to this woman, to send a message and try to intimidate PUMA.

I drop by the PUMA pages now and then, when I need a break from reality and I want to look in on their alternate universe.

[DB1]

14. I see your point, but it is kind of like a PTSD moment of GDPrimaries for me..

[PatGund]

25. I know the one you're talking about

It was a few weeks ago. I ended up blogging about it in a post I called "Note to PUMAs - they're not really out to get you"

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/note-to-pumas-.html#more

I ended it with this comment:

You know something, they're right in the sense that they "shouldn’t be going through this". And it is "shameful". But the blame for this mindset, this "they're all out to get us" attitude needs to be put squarely where it rightfully belongs - on the heads of Murphy, Larry Johnson, "Riverdaughter", "TexasDarlin", and every other PUMA and PUMA leader who has been feeding this cult of victimhood. THEY are the ones who have been causing this paranoia, THEY are the ones feeding this sense of "PUMA = victim". If they can make the PUMA followers scared and worried about their very safety, it makes them easier to manipulate and control. If they can keep PUMA followers feeling like they're victims and martyrs being attacked by Obama/Dean/DNC/whoever, then those followers are more likely to want to feel safer by believing the myths and lies - and less likely to question the party line.

I'm glad the person was safe and sound. But this doesn't explain - or excuse - the blinding paranoia that automatically assumes something bad happened because they're a PUMA.

Is it that PUMAs feel this constant need to make themselves out as martyrs for the cause? Or is it the leaders that find it's easier to manipulate and control if they can scare them and make the PUMA followers feel like martyrs for the cause?

[Jim Lane]

28. I agree with you about their cult of victimhood

At one point I thought PUMA was purely a Republican false-flag operation. Now, though, I think that a fair number of them are actual Clinton supporters who enjoy wallowing in their sense of victimhood. They enjoy it too much to do as Hillary Clinton herself has advised.

One of them posted that it was good for PUMA that Obama picked someone other than Clinton to be his running mate. That's a telling indication that they're not primarily about promoting Clinton or her political goals -- they're about putting on a big martyr act.

[LibraLiz1973]

19. I hate to ask, but I must. PUMA??

Sorry, I seriously have no idea.

[PatGund]

26. Originally...

"Party Unity My Ass" Later, "People United Means Action". They're a GOP front group pretending to be Sen. Clinton supporters who enjoy fanning the flames of hatred and destabilitizing the Democratic Party.

There's a couple good blogs that report on their latest insanity. The one I work with is:

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/

[Starry Messenger]

27. I love your website, btw.

It's a nice dose of sanity and sunshine after a few hours reading in puma websites.

MPK

[PatGund]

33. Thanks!

It's Christina's website, she just lets me play there on occasion. :-)

One big difference from the PUMA sites is we DO allow the PUMAs to post. Unlike them, we believe in freedom of speech, and not an echo chamber.

Most of them don't like coming out of their litter boxes though.

[scheming daemons]

21. Taking your advice.... putting you on ignore.

;-)

[musicblind]

29. Hell To The Yes!!!!

But to be clear, I don't advocate the use of the ignore button for anything on any side of an issue... STILL I wish people would stop using PUMA as a buzz word.

[Canuckistanian]

34. PUMA = "recreate 68" They're disruptors. Agents provocateurs.

In other words, they're not Democrats. And somehow they have a tenuous hold in Denver.

Seek them out, round them up and send them packing.

[Marrah_G]

40. Yup- already do that

But I save my recommends for really well done posts, not as a voting tool.