Unfuckinbelieveable!!

[fishface]

Faux News just reported that since the village idiot asked McCain to "join him" in seeking legal means to stop the 527 ads (which we all know is NOT going to happen)the Kerry campaign announced they will STOP running the new ad featuring McCain bitchslapping Dumbya over his smear campaign against him in 2000!

WTF are these people thinking??

This is a publicity stunt from the village idiot and they just fell for it.

:wtf: :puke:

[nostamj]

1. huh?

CNN reported that McCain asked * to denounce the SBV ad... wtf?

[gatorboy]

2. Bush asked McCain to join him in getting rid of ALL 527s

Which is crazy! I mean, Bush used these same type ads to destroy McCain and now Bush has the gall to ask McCain to join him in the fight to stop them...

[gtar100]

33. So what does Bush have on McCain, I wonder?

McCain does such unbelievably contradictory stuff. He seems to have his heart in the right place, but then turns around and helps *bush* who never apologized for smearing McCain himself !!AND!! his wife and child. This is not normal behavior.

[Carni]

45. More like what is bush going to DO FOR McCain

Forgive me but I have no respect for McCain.

[kentuck]

3. McCain probably just called the campaign and requested they drop it.... ?

I've been anticipating that.

[JHB]

4. Holy Lee Hamilton, Batman!

If this is true (consider the source), it illustrates the need for a new, ACTIVE AND AGRESSIVE generation of people in the party, who won't let the Republicans get away with murder.

SHEESH!

[Guaranteed]

5. Goddamnit.

This whole thing is bullshit. This is just another WRONG that the Bush administration is going to treat our country to.

The 1st Amendment protects the free speech rights of those 527's. These assholes have NO RIGHT to tell these people that they can't speak politically.

[Jacobin]

6. Kerry is trying really hard to lose this race

If he keeps this shit up, he will.

Godammit I miss Howard Dean.

[AP]

11. Dean tried pretty hard to lose the primaries. You miss that?

And you have to work pretty hard to lose a huge advantage in the polls and and huge money advantage.

[Jacobin]

13. Yeah. Thanks to Gephardt et al's smear ads

And Idiots in Iowa.

Kerry is going to lose the whole enchilada thanks to all this crap

[AP]

18. Suddenly Gephardt's powerful? If Dean had the counterargument, he

would have made it. He certainly had the money to get the counterargument out.

Did he have a winning counterargument to make that just didn't reach the public?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. I'll bet you $100 Kerry is inaugurated on 1/20/2005

I could have made a fortune in the primaries, I don't want to miss out on the GE.

Well?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. *chirp* *chirp*

[Cheswick2.0]

35. yeah Dean made those Osama adds himself

[AP]

53. Those memorable Osama ads? What do you think cost Dean the nomination?

Osama ads?

[lastliberalintexas]

42. I wouldn't blame him if he is

With the war in Iraq getting much worse, the economy tanking even further, and a draft possible/likely no matter who wins, I don't know that I want a Dem/liberal/progressive to get the blame when the whole things collapses, either. The next president may one day be as reviled as Hoover.


*Note that I'm not saying that I actually want Kerry to lose, just that there are significant reasons why it wouldn't be that bad.

[AP]

7. They probably weren't going to air it that much anyway, and now that

they say it's going off the air, they've probably created a buzz about it that will send people to the web site to see it.

Just as many people might see it now, and it will only cost Kerry bandwith.

Making news out of the commercial is good strategy.

It's a great commercial.

[flpoljunkie]

10. Here's the link to watch the McCain ad. It's called "Old Tricks"

http://www.johnkerry.com/tv/

[Jacobin]

14. Yeah. Great for the choir

Ya think the 10% undecideds will spend five fucking minutes trying to see this?

I don't

[blm]

8. McCain asked them to be taken down.

Kerry is doing it for McCain which will be in stark contrast to Bush who has still refused McCain's request to denounce the swift boat liars.

Kerry and McCain know what they're doing and how far each can go with it.

[NightOwwl]

9. No

They are seeking legal means to stop those "shadowy, so-called" 527 groups. Musn't forget Rove's talking points.

[gatorboy]

12. Perhaps Bush is buttering up McCain for Rumsfeld's job?

Why would McCain be such an public ass kisser fpr Bush at the moment, plus getting so much special attention from Bush over the last few months?

[Carni]

46. OMG I'll bet you are right!

Damn I never would have thought of that but it makes a lot of sense!

[K-W]

49. Not in a million billion years.

Think about what you are saying. That is a neocon position, not a moderate with his own mind position. Nobody who isnt a neocon is getting anywhere near the defense department.

[Carni]

51. That's true...although it looks like the neocons

Aren't fairing very well at the moment with the normal voting public.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. I don't know how to put this nicely.

It's stupid to believe Fox News' characterizations of events.

When you get angry at a Democrat because of something Fox News told you, the chances are, they lied or misrepresented the facts.

[fishface]

19. CNN has reported it too...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x672373

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. That is irrelevant to the point I raised.

Do you know the difference between a 'fact' and a 'characterization'?

Kerry is agreeing to McCain's request to take down the ad. That is a fact.

Faux News just reported that since the village idiot asked McCain to "join him" in seeking legal means to stop the 527 ads (which we all know is NOT going to happen)the Kerry campaign announced they will STOP running the new ad featuring McCain bitchslapping Dumbya over his smear campaign against him in 2000!

That is a characterization. In fact, it would more properly be called a lie. The Kerry campaign is not removing the ad because 'Bush asked McCain to "join him" in seeking legal means to stop the 527 ads'.


This is simply Fox News lying to you about the reason Kerry is taking down the ad.

[fishface]

32. My beef isn't with the characterization by Fox,

it's with Kerry's camp pulling the ad.

Rolling over for these assholes is what keeps us losing races.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. Yet, it is Fox's characterization that set you off and that you reported

here. They are playing you, my friend. You are reacting exactly how they want you to. Think about it.

[Carni]

47. Couldn't McCain have sued to get the ad taken down anyway?

I mean it is HIM in the ad and they didn't have his permission?

I am just asking because I don't know the legalities on something like this.

[Malva Zebrina]

16. If this is true

Kerry will be perceived as flip flopping again. Bush will emerge triumphant because no way is he going to give in and cry uncle to anything Kerry demands. He may even knife McCain in the back again and state that he is the better leader because he does not back down in the face of anthing.

This does not seem like a smart move. And I hate to say this but when loyalty to a fellow vet takes precedence over the state of the country or loyalty to the party and Democrats working so hard for him, it will make people wonder. It is the familiar belt way politics being played here and that is nothing to be exactly proud of given the way our own party has virtually deserted us for the past three half years.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. It is a characterization of Kerry's motives from FOX.

Do you think it's true?

[Malva Zebrina]

26. Of course not

and I have never watched Fox news in my lifetime.

I am saying that perception is everything and that Bush will use that as a tool to promote the image that he is the stronger and better equipped to lead because he does not back down.
This will resonate with the people who think that the US has to protect itself from terrorists. It doesn't matter that it can be shown over and over that all he is is a bully--in the political climate right now, this perception will sway people becasue they are terrified.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Well, that's different from 'If this is true' because now you are saying

that it is irrelevant whether it's true.

[Malva Zebrina]

37. and that is being petty

I have no other motives than to post here my ideas and feeling re Kerry. If you want to be petty, then I am sure you can find lots of little errors in my posts over time to parse in that manner. I think Kerry made a tactical error by putting McCain's needs over and above his supporters who are working so hard day and night for him and I am not alone.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. I never impugned your motives in any way whatsover.

And I consider your pretense that I did to be an insult.

In fact I have never, on any occasion made any personal comment about you, I have never tried to ascribe motives to you, I have never suggested that you shouldn't post what you think.


If you post comments, you're going to have to expect that those comments will be 'parsed' -- i.e., commented on.

[kentuck]

17. The ad has run its course ....

Why would anyone want to piss off McCain and his supporters and, at the same time, put yourself in the same category as the dirty ad people on the other side?? Totally irrational, in my opinion. The Kerry campaign was absolutely correct in pulling the ad.

[faithnotgreed]

20. agree. kerrys point has been made. plus he looks like an adult as opposed

to bush & co who are now crying to get advice or permission from mccain to stand by bush and denounce all 527s.

kerry pulled his "controversial" ad after bush continues not to denounce any that run against kerry

that way when bush & co cries that kerry is doing it... then kerry can say he doesnt have any ads running and its back on bush

i think it was perfectly fine. plus, as much as mccain has sold his soul, he and kerry are friends and "brothers". mccain was displeased or whatever he was, so kerry shows some respect.

kerry made his point. and the smear boats have been shown as fraudulent.
and i know kerry doesnt want to hurt any of his band of brothers., they have been hurt enough.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. Will it still be available online? n/t

[flpoljunkie]

29. Yes. There is as yet no mention of Kerry pulling the ad on his web site.

It's called "Old Tricks."

http://www.johnkerry.com/tv/

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. Cool. Thanks. n/t

[Rivermont]

25. Hate to think it but are the Repugs just smarter than we are?

They always seem to pull this type stuff off. It amazes me.

[NYCGirl]

28. No, not smarter. Just nastier and more ruthless.

Smears, lies, character assassination. They don't care. Rove loses no sleep about it.

Edited to add: Democrats treat people as if they're bright and thoughtful; Republicans trea† people as if they're morons. Or morans.

[kentuck]

38. Yes. Most of the time.

:)

But our hearts are in the right place.

[goodhue]

27. Kerry taking high road provides contrast to Bush.

This is a good move.

[DebinTx]

31. Every time dems try to take the high road

on just about anything, it gets thrown back in our faces.

I think Kerry should take the high road but not until something concrete is actually done by McCain. There will be no law suit because the 527s are legal, so the only recourse for McCain is to try and pass some legislation about it - by then the election will be over and Bush will have still been using his 527s while Kerry didn't.

[Malva Zebrina]

39. I think that is true--at this poiint no one cares about the high road

we want our guy to smash Bush because it is absolutely crucial and it has been shown what a sleeze he is in his campaigns and how clever rove is--by this time the American people should be aware of the debacle that has slaughtered thousands in Iraq and all of bush's lies re the invasion that has caused more world wide terror than anything or ever before--and the polls show Bush even with Kerry? That is the excellence of the Bush propaganda ministry. Kerry is showing respect for McCain now? Bush showed no respect at all for Max Cleland did he?

I am sorry--but this is no time for high roads or beltway politics. It just isn't.

[DebinTx]

44. I agree

and if something positive doesn't come out of this soon, maybe Kerry can make an ad laying all of this out for people.
We should NEVER let our guard down.

[gardenista]

40. Can't you see that there was a deal made, and everyone played their part?

It's politics, people!

Kerry's withdrawal sets up the scene perfectly to demand that Bush withdraw in the future.

McCain and Kerry made a deal. McCain allowed it to be aired for a few days, and then expressed his "disappointment". The Kerry camp withdrew.

It doesn't take any great insight to see how this worked.

This is the *only* way that Kerry can win against these slimeballs.

Bush is just trying to make lemonade out of lemons. But he got caught in Kerry's trap. Just watch.

[Carni]

43. I don't know... I am still going back and forth about this

But my gut feeling is that McCain was going to demand that they pull it(he's such a two faced so and so IMO)

I honestly think it's being pulled because McCain threw a bitch and they figured they didn't need the added headache of him flapping his gums about being misquoted (or similar crap)and taking legal action.

JMO But I think herr bush leaned on McCain.

[goodhue]

48. Trust your gut.

This was a preemptive pull and saves us from McCain/Bush press conference against Kerry ad. Plus it puts Kerry camp in better position to further demand stop to Swift Boat Vets for Bush ads that smear Kerry's honorable service.

[Carni]

52. Yeah I agree about the preemptive pull aspect

A joint bush/McCain press conference bemoaning the whole thing would not have played very well.

[sadiesworld]

50. Fine, get rid of 527s...

but that leaves no plausible $ = free speech argument. Bring on publicly financed campaigns!