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Can Biden out-Hillary Hillary??

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darius15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:09 PM
Original message
Can Biden out-Hillary Hillary??
The principal rationale for selecting Hillary Clinton as Barack Obama's running mate is that she would have united Democrats behind their nominee at a time when they have a substantial advantage in party identification. John Kerry received 89 percent of the Democratic vote in 2004; if Barack Obama can get within a couple of points of that, even to 86 or 87 percent, he will be very difficult to defeat.

However, Joe Biden might do nearly as good a job as Clinton of uniting the party, while perhaps paying less of a price among independents.

Rasmussen has fresh approval numbers out for Biden, as well as several other Democratic short-listers. Here, borrowed from Rasmussen's invaluable subscriber service, are their approval scores by party:

Democrats

Candidate Fav-Unfav
Clinton 77-22 (+55)
Biden 65-17 (+48)
Bayh 45-25 (+20)
Sebelius 35-19 (+16)
Kaine 35-29 (+6)

Clinton has the highest favorables and highest net score among Democrats; Biden has the fewest unfavorables. Generally speaking, Clinton and Biden blow the other three candidates out of the water.

Republicans

Candidate Fav-Unfav
Kaine 29-30 (-1)
Bayh 23-43 (-20)
Sebelius 14-45 (-31)
Biden 22-63 (-39)
Clinton 21-75 (-54)

Amongst Republicans, the ratings are very nearly the reverse. Joe Biden will not have a terrific amount of crossover appeal. On the contrary, though the animus might not be as personal as in the case of Senator Clinton, Biden will be seen my many GOPers as a partisan blowhard. One can argue, however, about whether this really matters. The notion that Obama was going to win over some large number of "Obamacans" had not realistically been in play for a couple of months now, as the GOP base has begun to rally behind John McCain.

Indepedents

Candidate Fav-Unfav
Biden 42-29 (+13)
Bayh 31-21 (+10)
Kaine 24-23 (+1)
Sebelius 18-21 (-3)
Clinton 39-57 (-18)

Where Biden might do some good is among independents, among whom he has the highest favorables and highest net rating, although a couple other candidates had lower unfavorables. But Biden certainly performs better amongst this critical group than Hillary Clinton. One can argue that Biden is very well positioned within the Democratic party, probably just slightly to the right of the average Democratic senator. Liberal Democrats certainly won't be pleased with his votes on the AUMF or the bankruptcy bill, but they still essentially trust him, which they wouldn't necessarily with a more identifiably centrist choice like Evan Bayh or Tim Kaine. But on the other hand, Biden cannot so easily be characterized as a liberal to turn off independent voters; in fact, independents and moderates like him pretty well.

Let's take one more, slightly different take on this. This time, we'll look at impressions of the candidates based not on party ID, but rather, based on who the voters had intended to vote for in November. Let's make the following assumptions:

- For each McCain voter that has a very favorable view of Biden, one-quarter of them will switch their vote to Obama.

- For each McCain voter that has a somewhat favorable view of Biden, one-eighth of them will switch their vote to Obama.

- For each Obama voter that has a somewhat unfavorable view of Biden, one-eighth of them will switch their vote to McCain.

- For each Obama voter that has a very unfavorable view of Biden, one-quarter of them will switch their vote to McCain.

Does that sound reasonable? It sounds reasonable to me, though I really have no idea. But let's run the numbers and see what we get:


VF = Very Favorable
SF = Somewhat Favorable
VU = Very Unfavorable
SU = Somewhat Unfavorable

... McCain Voters Obama Voters
Candidate VF SF VU SU Net Margin
Biden 4 20 5 10 +2.00
Bayh 4 19 4 16 +0.75
Kaine 8 21 8 20 +0.25
Clinton 11 14 13 14 -0.50
Sebelius 3 13 5 13 -0.50

What's noteworthy is not so much that Biden will turn a lot of McCain voters on -- Tim Kaine and Hillary Clinton would have done a better job of that -- but that he'll turn very few Obama voters off. As a result, this method projects a net swing of 2 points toward Obama, which is better than he'd do with any of the other candidates. Biden also performed quite well in these ratings among undecided (43-22 favorable) and third-party (45-36 favorable) voters, though the sample sizes are probably too small to be worth worrying about.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/can-biden-out-hillary-hillary.html
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why is Hillary Clinton even still being discussed in this forum?
Isn't this lounge material?
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darius15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's more of an analysis of
how Biden is the best choice
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. That's what I'd like to know...
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Biden will do more to unite than a Hillary choice would have
half of the party likes Hillary
damned near everybody likes Joe

and if they didn't already, they soon enough will when they see him in action
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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Biden doesn't have Bill baggage n/t
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Wow! Look at the bouncing tits!
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. We'll never know because Hillary is not the VP nominee
Joe Biden is. Maybe the message hasn't gotten out yet.
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. He will. He'll be able to connect to those "hillary" demographics the MSM has been beating Obama
about.
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Impedimentus Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. With Biden as VP Obama Won't Have To

have a food taster.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Ouch!
:rofl:
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. GET LOST
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. Biden will do better. I know Republicans who will now vote Democratic
and I knew Democrats who would not have voted if Hillary had been on the ticket. I don't know how that figures out, but to me it means Biden is going to surprise them!
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. PLEASE!
I like Biden as VP but saying repukes will vote Obama because of him?

ROFL
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes! Three have told me today they are voting for Obama/Biden
Why is that funny?
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Please let it go.
It's over, Biden is the nominee, and a damned good one. Let's move forward now.:)
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yes, JEEZE enough already!!!!
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's not about Hillary. Move on.
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm ready to move on Darius.
It's a good post and all, but today was too good, and too FINAL, to even think about Clinton's #s.
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