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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 09:59 PM
Original message
Ali


In the above photo, Muhammad Ali chats with Yoko Ono and John Lennon at President Jimmy Carter's inaugural gala. As most DUers know, The Champ will be coming to watch Barack Obama's speech at the Democratic National Convention. I thought that people would find the below quote, from Ali's book, of interest:

"Every man wants to believe in himself. And every man wants to be fearless. We become heroes when we stand up for something we believe in. … The year was 1967. For months I had tried to prepare myself for what would happen if I refused to be introduced into the United States Armed Forces. I could continue my boxing career and remain heavyweight champion if I went against my religious beliefs. Or, I would face certain backlash from the public and possible prison time and a fine if I stood up for my religious beliefs. That was my choice as I saw it.

"The consequences of my decision were even more dire than I thought. …(M)y religious beliefs were not compatible with the responsibilities and expectations of a soldier in combat. I didn’t agree with the reasons why we were in Vietnam in the first place, but most especially I couldn’t see myse;f trying to injure or kill people whom I didn’t even know, people who had never done any harm to me or my country. But even the Nation of Islam tried to persuade me to accept induction. I just couldn’t believe that was God’s plan for me. ….

"Sometimes I hear myself described as a draft dodger. I did not dodge the draft. I did not run to Canada, and I did not hide in this country. I reported to the army induction center as I had been ordered to do. I asserted my right as a conscientious objector to refuse to be drafted, and I was prepared to go to prison for five years if I had to. I worked within the system.

"After refusing induction, I distributed a statement to the press that read in part: ‘I am proud of the title "World Heavyweight Champion." … The holder of it should at all times have the courage of his convictions and carry out those convictions, not only in the ring but through all phases of life. It is in light of my own personal convictions that I take my stand in rejecting the call to be inducted into the armed services. I do so with full realization of its implications and possible consequences. I have searched my conscience, and find I cannot be true to my belief in my religion by accepting such a call. …. I strongly object to the fact that so many newspapers have given the American public and the world the impression that I have only two alternatives in taking this stand – either I go to jail or go to the Army. There is another alternative, and that alternative is justice. If justice prevails, if my constitutional rights are upheld, I will be forced to go neither to the Army nor jail. In the end, I am confident that justice will come my way, for the truth must eventually prevail.’

"I never regretted the decision I made that day. Most people know that I was stripped of my heavyweight championship title almost immediately, and that state boxing commissions around the country refused to give me licenses to fight in their state. My passport was taken from me so I couldn’t go overseas to fight. My prime boxing years were denied me, and I had to find other ways to support myself and my family. The greatest cost to me, however, was that the Nation of Islam turned its back on me. I was no longer a member, and its members were not allowed to associate with me."

-- The Soul of a Butterfly: Reflections on Life’s Journey; Muhammad Ali; Simon & Schuster; 2004; pages 86-89.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Butterfly Floating K and Bee Stinging R!
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I love The Champ!!!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Ali for VP! n/t
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. what a terrific photo and passage - thank you. nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. Glad you liked it.
Thank you.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great photo of two great men.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. I like it a lot.
It's interesting to compare it with the photos of the Beatles at Miami Beach with young Cassius Clay, who was preparing to fight heavyweight champion Charles "Sonny" Liston.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Truly Excellent!
A man of principles!
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. In 1968 I went to my draft board and declared myself a consciencious
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 10:07 PM by panader0
objector. They asked if I was a Quaker or Amish. I said no. Then they asked me why I wanted to be a C.O. I said because I don't want to kill people I don't know for reasons I don't believe in. They stamped denied on my paper.
Ali was inspirational then as now.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. His case is
one of the most important for people of conscience. We should never forget that when it reached the US Supreme Court -- and it was the "Nixon Court" -- Ali won an 8-0 decision.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. So, what happened?
Did you end up getting drafted or did you fight it?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm a late comer to the Ali fan club.
Nevertheless, he is a great man and it will be an amazing thing to see him @ the convention.
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Obama and Ali


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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. Two beautiful men. My love of Ali was what taught me that racism
was not right.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for posting this
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 10:14 PM by HughMoran
Ali is a brave man who stood by his convictions - if only more people had such fortitude. I was expecting you to post shortly after hearing that Ali would be attending the Democratic convention. :)
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. To me - someone who thinks boxing should be outlawed - the metaphorical importance...
...is that Obama is doing the rope-a-dope. McCain and company, are shooting all their bullets. Obama's team has an uncanny way of bouncing back. Right now, he's letting team McCain shoot it's wad.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. When I heard Ali wanted to be present at the Democratic convention, I thought of you.
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 10:44 PM by Gregorian
And then I thought of history. It's as though we now have another chance.

While talking with a friend tonight I mentioned greed and fear. He said that greed was fear. And so we discovered that there is only fear. We either act out of courage, or fear. I'm often afraid as I act out of what I believe. But now more than ever I have a sense that I am not alone. And to read your post, I see Muhammad Ali so much bigger than I even imagined. I have a sense also of nostalgia.

This is something that is giving us all a great deal of excitement. You must be pretty damned thrilled.

I thought that being a CO was a form of weakness when I was facing a draft. But I was not going to go for the same reasons Ali stated. I never knew he was a CO. He paid a big price. Damn.

Edit- I just realized I share the same birthday as Ali. This makes my day.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Thank you.
It's interesting to think about how generous Ali was. The man not only conquered fear, he wasn't greedy. He gave away millions of dollars, usually without anyone knowing but the person he gave cash to.

Ali dedicated his title defense against Ron Lyle to Rubin on my birthday.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank You!
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. the contrast between ali and certain other "champs" who chomp on ears....
ali will always be the champ.
others are not in the same league.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Since you are a big fan of Ali, do you remember the first movie made about
his life? The Greatest? Back in the mid 70s?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Oh, yes.
I've got an extensive collection of Ali material, including movies, films of his boxing career (amateur and professional), photographs, books, magazines, and newspaper articles that go back to when Cassius Clay won the Olympics in 1960. I was sitting ringside for the second Ali vs Frazier fight, in the same row as Teddy Kennedy. One of my brothers had the opportunity to spend quite a bit of time in Ali's training camps. Years later, after the Champ retired, he gave my brother an autographed book when his first daughter was born; I have photos of Ali holding her when she was a tiny baby.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Wow!
Well, my half Brother played the Teen Mohammad Ali in that movie.....

His name is Phillip, but we call him Chip.

He later on went on to win one of the "Amazing Race" program.....number 3, I believe.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Very good!
I'll have to watch it again!

I forgot to mention that I have a copy of this album (it has a few scratches from old age):

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. That goes back years!
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 11:05 PM by FrenchieCat
You must have an unbelievably awesome collection!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Yes, it is old.
But that reminds me of what I am -- because I remember the day my brothers and I bought that album!
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
47. Hey H2O Man ...
Have you ever watched "Ali the Fighter"....the documentary by William Greaves the African American film maker? It's an incredible chronicle of the weeks leading up to the first Ali-Frazier tilt in 1971. The best part is that the last hour of the film is the fight itself. All 15 rounds filmed with motion picture cameras from different angles around the ring that night. No annoying announcers voices. Just the sounds of the fighters themselves and the crowd. I bought it on dvd as soon as it came out a few years ago(it was unavailable for about 20 years) and not a month goes by without me loading it up and watching it..Despite his loss that night, it was the most courageous act of any athlete I ever saw in my life when he got up off the canvas after the knockdown in the 15th..his pure toughness was rarely spoken of during his career, due to his incredible grace and talent...

The film is a must for Ali fans or any Boxing fan.

Thanks for the post on the Champ.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. such a sad statement- noi
members were not allowed to associate with me.
some sad stuff there.

but, folks, welcome to chicago's hyde park neighborhood. there is still an active chapter of sds. we take this shit seriously.
are there some angry black men there? yeah. but there is also a house that still belongs to the greatest, even tho he lives in la. (i think that is correct, but op might know better.)


wanna talk about obama's influences now?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. I was very moved when I read Ali wanted to be at the Convention...
to hear Obama.

Thank you for this OP, it is very powerful.

Recommended.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. And here is another old photo:


I've spoken before about Ali's helping Rubin during his years of incarceration. Back in the early 1970s, before the case had the public support that resulted from Bob Dylan's song (lyrics by Jacques Levy), Ali visited Rubin at Rahway State Prison in New Jersey.

Friend Ronald Lipton described it like this: "Ali was granted a celebrity's visit .... (It)was a beautiful experience to behold as the Ali magic touched everyone immediately, changing the prisoners' sullen, sad faces of despair into those of happy children with 'the Champ.' Ali, striding through the corridors, lighting the gloomy passages like a holy man giving hope to all, guards and prisoners smiling and reaching out for his hand."

I remember talking to Rubin about the visit. Ali sent a message that I'll always remember: "War on nations changes maps; war on poverty maps change."
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. I never, ever knew. Thank you for this wonderful post.
:yourock:

Hekate


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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. The model of courage.
I think Obama has learned to meet his gaze, and is a better person for it.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. I didn't know that Ali was going to be at the convention
Edited on Fri Aug-22-08 12:18 AM by Marnieworld
And I love that you of all people were the one to tell me. It's always good to read another wonderful quote from him. I'm actually at a moment in my life where I need courage and this helps- thanks! :hi:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
28. Lovely thread
Thanks H2O Man.

K & R
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R n/t
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Ahem
Stop making me cry at work, it unprofessional!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
34. Te great Ali taught me what "conscientious objector" meant--at the tender age of 8.
That he was a man of color taught me courage. I was a child in Boulder, Montama at the time, I had never seen a person of color in the flesh; we had only one TV station but this voracious reader couldn't wait to get hwe hands on the-then honorable Time magazine.

He still is inspiring; I had the privilege of teaching my own son about him yesterday. I explained that among many other things, Ali's picture was promimemtly displayed in the barber shop--he knew immediately who he was! Now he knows why he was so important to this middle-aged white soccer mom who grew up loving boxing!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. I Can't Help Comparing The Big Mo's
Obama's night will be tremendous in so may ways, a breathtaking vision of the future. On the 29th McBush will try to steal the spotlight with his veep pick. On that day he will be 72 and it will be the anniversary of the day he and * stood on the tarmac with a birthday cake while the people of NO were suffering and dying.
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watrwefitinfor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. One thousand times the hero that someone like
John McLain pretends to be.

Many of us in the anti-war movement who had never followed boxing at all stood back in awe and amazement as Ali showed his true character. I still don't care for the sport of boxing, but I'll never forget Ali demonstrating what a real hero looks like. What he gave up. And what we all owe him. I am still moved to tears whenever he makes a public appearance.

Thanks for this tribute, Waterman.

Wat
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 02:08 PM
Original message
Beautiful...
touches my soul....makes me cry.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
37. Ali! Boom Ba Yea!!
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grannie4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
38. that's beautiful
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. Great words by Ali!
I don't recall that, I wasn't paying too much attention at the time.
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
40. You MUST see the movie "When We Were Kings"
The story about the Ali - Foreman fight in Zaire.
The 'Rumble in the Jungle"

Ali is mesmerizing in this intimate portrayal of one of his greatest fights.

Many people forget that Foreman back than was known as a surly thug, and was hated by the people in Zaire.
Foreman suffered a cut above his eye while sparring days before the fight.
They had to delay the fight several weeks.
In the meantime, Ali won the hearts of the entire country and by the time the night of the fight rolled around, people were screaming...

"ALI! BOOM BY YA!" (or something like that) which translated loosely into "Ali Kill Him!"
There is a scene of him jogging with hundreds of kids following him yelling, "Ali Boom by ya!"

It's a GREAT documentary.
See it before you see him in Denver.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. I've had it
for many years. Great film.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. But wait, isn't Ali...
..a muslim??!??!!!!

:hide:
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
43. I remember when his movie came out during my college years
Muhammad Ali, the Greatest / Fly Like A Butterfly Sting Like A Bee.

My boyfriend and I went to see it. It was on tv in this past year or so and is still powerful.
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thanks for posting this.
Ali is a true hero.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
46. "Ain't no Vietcong ever called me n*gger"
One of the greatest Ali quotes. This quote along with his actions made him BEYOND an icon and hero to many blacks.

"I Ain't Got No Quarrel With The VietCong...No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger" — Muhammad Ali, 1966
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
48. Great post and a great excerpt.
Edited on Fri Aug-22-08 07:33 PM by goodgd_yall
Thanks, H2O Man. I'm excited about Ali being at the Convention.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
49. K&R
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
50. Big K&R for the Louisville Lip!!
Last time I saw him in person was at the Orange Bowl in Miami. He came down there to help root our Cards on to victory.

He was and is and will always be The Greatest!!

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. K&R. (nt)
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