Obama / Kaine

[redqueen]

Anybody else like this ticket?

[LSK]

1. no, it would be 2 unknowns

[scheming daemons]

7. Obama is unknown? But McCain says "he's the biggest celebrity in the world"

[LSK]

14. you have heard about Obama being unknown as long as I have

Even thou his autobiography has been around for years.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

122. people even know him in small islands across the world

[villager]

12. Known unknowns? Or unknown unknowns?

;-)

[LSK]

15. Rummy was good for at least one thing

:D

[Bucky]

23. Two, actually. But that second thing is probably illegal and certainly immoral.

and I might scuff my boot a bit when I break it off.

[nxylas]

16. Or two Washington outsiders bringing change

At least that's how the Obama campaign could (and probably would) spin it.

[redqueen]

19. Spot on!

:hi:

[redqueen]

18. Yeah but IMO that's a good thing.

:shrug:

[LSK]

22. good for governing yes, but you have to get there 1st

Not a good thing for all those people uncertain about the "unknown".

[redqueen]

26. Well when the "known" is status quo insiders, well...

I'm thinking new blood is quite likely exactly what this country is ready for.

[apnu]

2. Obama / whoever

[jobycom]

3. Hate it. But if he comes right on choice, I'll embrace it. nt

[KansDem]

48. Here you go...

Tim Kaine on Abortion
Click here for 2 full quotes on Abortion OR background on Abortion.
Promote abstinence; ban partial-birth abortion. (Nov 2005)
I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Budget & Economy
Click here for 3 full quotes on Budget & Economy OR background on Budget & Economy.
In 5 years, Bush took us from surplus to deficit. (Jan 2006)
Fiscal discipline kept AAA bond rating. (Nov 2005)
Progress economically via stable finances. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Civil Rights
Click here for background on Civil Rights.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Corporations
Click here for background on Corporations.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Crime
Click here for 2 full quotes on Crime OR background on Crime.
Supports Project Exile's longer mandatory sentences. (Nov 2005)
Moratorium on the death penalty until it is fair. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Drugs
Click here for the full quote on Drugs OR background on Drugs.
Anti-drug and anti-gang units in State Police. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Education
Click here for 2 full quotes on Education OR background on Education.
Administration refused to fund NCLB Act. (Jan 2006)
Make education policy by first-hand visits to schools. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Energy & Oil
Click here for 2 full quotes on Energy & Oil OR background on Energy & Oil.
All Virginians are affected by rising gas prices. (Nov 2005)
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025. (Jan 2007)


Tim Kaine on Environment
Click here for background on Environment.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Families & Children
Click here for background on Families & Children.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Foreign Policy
Click here for background on Foreign Policy.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Free Trade
Click here for background on Free Trade.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Government Reform
Click here for background on Government Reform.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Gun Control
Click here for the full quote on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.
Strongly supports the Second Amendment. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Health Care
Click here for 3 full quotes on Health Care OR background on Health Care.
Bush fights states getting cheap Rx for seniors. (Jan 2006)
Our seniors were promised medications but got poor planning. (Jan 2006)
One out of 7 Virginians lack health insurance. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Homeland Security
Click here for 2 full quotes on Homeland Security OR background on Homeland Security.
Focus on counter-terrorism and bioterrorism preparedness. (Nov 2005)
Maintain the military presence in Virginia. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Immigration
Click here for background on Immigration.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Jobs
Click here for background on Jobs.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Local Issues
Click here for background on Local Issues.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Principles & Values
Click here for 2 full quotes on Principles & Values OR background on Principles & Values.
Better way is to focus on service, common sense, & results. (Jan 2006)
Parents taught him the importance of family and faith. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Social Security
Click here for background on Social Security.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

Tim Kaine on Tax Reform
Click here for the full quote on Tax Reform OR background on Tax Reform.
Proven record of cutting taxes. (Nov 2005)


Tim Kaine on Technology
Click here for background on Technology.
No issue stance yet recorded by OnTheIssues.org.

On the Issues

[Zhade]

77. Oh, he's a conservative anti-choice drug warrior "democrat".

Fuck that shit.

[jobycom]

88. Maybe. Remember, he has always campaigned in Virginia

So he's had to run conservative on some issues.

Lyndon Johnson was a conservative Senator to win reelection in Texas, but when he became president he became the strongest Civil Rights president we've ever had, as well as a champion against poverty.

So I'd listen to him, at least, if he starts saying the right things. But he's way down my list.

[Zhade]

75. nm

question answered above

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. A stone loser

[featherman]

5. Most likely IMO - no inside info - just my opinion

[Egnever]

6. I liked him on meet the press

Dont know enough about him really to make an informed choice.

[nsd]

8. Sure.

But I like Obama/Biden too. In fact, as opposed to many others on this board, I also like Obama/Bayh. I'm easy to please.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I've seen worse suggested today.

[Mass]

10. Say it aloud, then tell me if you still like it.

[redqueen]

20. I like it more!

Relief from the pain of the past 8 years.

:rofl:

[appal_jack]

70. yep

Do we really trust the American voter to distinguish between McCain/whoever Obama/Kaine?

Said aloud that second choice sounds mighty like Oba-McCain, as has already been pointed out here at DU by someone more insightful than I (can't remember who, or I would give credit where it's due).

McCain vs Oba/McCain sounds pretty lame to me. And Kaine's reactionary stances on the War on Drugs and Choice are doubly lame. His non-stances on environmental issues, etc. are triply lame.

-app

[Metric System]

11. Ugh, give me some novocaine for the pain.

[FrenchieCat]

13. I am fine with it.

Like some said here over and over again, folks don't vote for the bottome of the ticket to that extent.

[Barack_America]

17. I LOVE THIS TICKET!

It's my #1 choice, hands-down.

He's a bulldog who knows how to stay on message. Washington outsider. The list goes on and on...

[redqueen]

25. Totally agree...

:)

[DFLforever]

43. Me too.I think it's an ideal ticket.

Kaine has much more down-to-earth voter appeal than any of our senators.

[redqueen]

51. He sure isn't wishy-washy...

I like that he stuck with his anti-death penalty position due to his principles. :thumbsup:

[harun]

92. I like it too

I believe he was the first governor to support Obama. That is big.

[Muttocracy]

21. I'm a little baffled why people who were never on the radar for pres are for VP

Many VPs have become president, or they tend to end up running 4 or 8 years later.

In a field with Clark, Biden, Schweitzer, Feingold, Richardson, Dodd, Kerry, Gore, Clinton, etc. etc. why Kaine?

[redqueen]

30. He's my favorite of those on the short list.

Of the ones you mention I only like Feingold.

I think most people in this country are sick to death of the crap in DC and an experienced name that we all know IMO is more likely to be seen as 'status quo'.

[Muttocracy]

45. If that were the case, no one would vote for McCain regardless of Obama's VP. nt

[redqueen]

53. Not everybody's sick of the status quo... obviously.... cause the GOP still has supporters. (nt)

[Muttocracy]

55. and people sick of the status quo will already vote Obama. nt

[redqueen]

58. Most likely yeah...

Unless they think he'll be overly influenced by a senior status quoer. Especially one with a proven track record of caving to special interests at every available opportunity.

That's a risk we don't need to take IMO.

[Barack_America]

62. Don't take that for granted. McCain still has that ridiculous "maverick" image. nt

[Bucky]

32. I'll tell you why Kaine

plus 13

[redqueen]

34. I would think the strategery of it would be pretty much blatantly obvious.

:shrug:

[Muttocracy]

42. I don't automatically buy the state argument. Why should people vote for Obama based on

where is VP is from? VP can't even vote for pork for their state?

:shrug:

[Barack_America]

47. VA Republicans have conceded that Kaine would help Obama win the state. nt

[Barack_America]

35. "Off-radar" candidates are better suited to be a #2?

And less likely to try to be a co-#1??

Just speculation.

[Awsi Dooger]

24. I wish we would try to win

Picking Kaine is trying to win, via impact on Virginia.

Obama has a situational edge but if Obama avoids a strategic pick and McCain names that former Ohio congressman, Portman or whatever his name is, suddenly it's close to a 50/50 race.

[TwilightGardener]

27. No to the Eyebrow.

[Upton]

28. Kaine is a first term Governor

you want to fan the flames of the charges of inexperience just pick him. Hopefully, the Obama campaign will not be so foolish.

[Barack_America]

31. FYI, two term Governors don't exist in VA...

They're term-limited to one term.

And Kaine was Warner's Lt. Gov. as well.

[goodgd_yall]

39. Right---he's not as inexperienced as being painted

I think being mayor of a sizeable city, Richmond, counts for something too. His last 3 positions have been executive positions.

[redqueen]

33. Where you and others see no experience, I and others see "not an insider / status quo" type.

:shrug:

[Barack_America]

36. Yep. Biden = goodbye "get rid of Washington special interests" theme...

And, IMO, that's one of Obama's most effective rallying cries.

[redqueen]

38. Yup... he's a poster boy for special interests (banking). (nt)

[LostinVA]

29. No -- dealbreaker for me because of Kaine's stance on gay rights

[redqueen]

37. By dealbreaker that means it's not your favorite choice...

not that you won't vote for the ticket, right?

[LostinVA]

54. I am not voting for a candidate who is against gay rights

He is against civil unions, domestic partnerships, etc. No one can expect ANY GLBT DUer to vote for someone who actively wants to retard or take away their rights. I'm already compromising on some gay and women's rights issues, but Obama is not anti choice or totally anti gay rights. Kaine is. I would not expect someone black to vote for someone who wants to take their rights away, or any other so-called "special population." I have compromised enough over the years, and hope Senator Obama has enough respect for GLBTers to NOT do this.

I voted for Kaine, because he was the best choice for VA Governor, but he is NOT the best choice for a national ticket.

[redqueen]

56. Alrighty then. (nt)

[Zhade]

78. I have to agree with you on this. It affects me directly!

NO HOMOPHOBES.

[goodgd_yall]

41. You'd vote for McCain?

Or you'd sit out the presidential vote and let McCain win?

I hope that's not what you mean.

[LostinVA]

49. When did I say either of those things?

When the FUCK have I EVER said anything on here to make people think I'd ever vote for a REpublican?

Jesus Christ.

I am not, however, voting for a candidate who is against civil unions or basic civil rights for GLBT people. In Virginia, you can't even get domestic partner insurance via your employer. You can't jointly own a home together.

[goodgd_yall]

84. Apparently you didn't read my whole post

Not voting for Obama is another option. In my opinion that's as bad as voting for McCain.

[Marrah_G]

69. Question for you

What if the nominee were white and chose an openly racist VP, who was openly against equal rights, would you be upset with an African American Duer saying " I cannot vote for someone who sees me as a second class citizen"?

When you think about it like that I am sure you can understand why some people here would have a very hard time voting for him.

I am confident he won't be the VP and this won't ever become an issue.

[goodgd_yall]

85. Kaine is not equal to (the late, thank god) Strom Thurmond

So, for me, this comparison is faulty.

[Independent_Voice]

71. Do you even understand what it's like for LGBT people?

How can the Democratic Party ask us to support someone being a heartbeat away from the presidency who won't even support BASIC domestic protections for same-sex couples?

I will never be voting for any ticket with Kaine on it. Period.

[Zhade]

80. No. They don't get it at all.

NT!

[goodgd_yall]

86. You're assuming

I'm one of "them."

This election is extremely important to win. Our situation in this country is dire. If it's Obama/Kaine, I hope my LGBT brothers and sisters can recognize the urgency of keeping the a Republican out of the White House enough to support an Obama/Kaine ticket. Kaine isn't going to do anything to prevent civil unions, I assure you.

[goodgd_yall]

83. I am an an LGBT person

We don't vote monolithically either. I could tolerate Kaine. For one I don't think his views on civil unions is going to have any effect on an Obama presidency. And for another, he actually told voters in his state NOT to vote for the amendment that would ban civil unions. This shows me he may have pronounced his opposition to civil unions as a political ploy to get elected. His actions may prove to be different from what is assumed they would be. Except for the civil union stand, I think Kaine has some good democratic credentials. In this day and age, there are few politicians who support gay marriage, which I think is the stand most illustrative of support for LGBT people. If I think about how Obama is against gay marriage, I feel very disappointed, but I won't allow that one issue to prevent me from electing a Democrat for presiden ( the fact he's for civil unions is little consolation). And it would be foolish and irresponsible to sit out the presidential election since that would give McCain the election. I'm so against McCain and what he would do to this country, I will vote for an Obama/Kaine ticket, if it comes to that.

[elkston]

40. Nope. Biden would be fine. But I'd really like Clark, Gore, or Clinton n/t

[StevieM]

82. ITA!!! Those are the three best people he could possibly choose IMO (eom)

[zulchzulu]

44. It would be good for Kaine's career, but not necessarily good for a Democratic victory

I think the negatives outweigh the positives.

[Barack_America]

46. We don't know all the negatives for the candidates...

Only Obama, his aides and vetting team do.

It's not hard to believe that one of our "top 3" might have a nasty skeleton in his closet.

[David Zephyr]

50. Oba..maKaine. Sounds awful.

Oba..maKaine.

[Barack_America]

57. What's the matter with "O-K '08"?

I think it's catchy.

[redqueen]

59. Why are you writing it that way?

I think it sounds great. :)

[thoughtcrime1984]

52. I am fine with it.

I have trusted Obama's judgment up until now, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

[redqueen]

60. Same here!

:hi:

[Eurobabe]

61. Nope, sorry.

[rove karl rove]

63. I don't.

Kaine's too inexperienced, I tend to believe this news:

http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/08/20/barack-obama-chooses-kathleen-sebelius-for-vice-president/

KS is more solid IMO.

[Chloroplast]

64. I like it.

Kaine definitely has his advantages but I worry about his lack of foreign policy experience.

[redqueen]

67. That's the only real stumbling block I can see...

but Obama seems to have stepped into the role of diplomat quite handily, so it doesn't worry me. :)

[Marrah_G]

65. I hate this ticket

[thewiseguy]

66. No

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

68. I know who Tim Kaine is but who is this Obama guy I keep hearing about?

:evilgrin:

[Independent_Voice]

72. Absolutely not. Kaine will NEVER have my vote.

He's worse on LGBT equality than Lieberman! That's pretty bad (and pathetic).

[redqueen]

74. Welcome to DU.

[musicblind]

73. He is even AGAINST allowing Civil Unions!!!!

:(

[Independent_Voice]

79. It's so far out of the mainstream

It's ridiculous Obama is even considering him.

[Zhade]

81. IS he? Or does the MSM just SAY he is?

NT!

[Sparkly]

76. No -- not enough experience

especially with military, foreign policy, national security, etc.

[IndianaJones]

87. boo. nt.

[saltpoint]

89. I'd be happy with it, sure. Kaine does not thrill some folks

on DU but if Obama lifts him out of Virginia, he is a man with a mind for everyone and not limited to being the Governor of a red state.

I think of Jimmy Carter's time as Georgia's governor and then, once lifted out of that smaller compartment, became a wide-ranger. And eventually a (well-deserved) winner of the Nobel Prize.

I think Kaine has much of that potential appeal also, and his time abroad serving others is something I think Obama inherently trusts.

Thank you for this post. Recommended.

[redqueen]

90. Thanks! Nice to see folks mentioning people like Carter and LBJ...

:hi:

[Maven]

91. NO to homophobes on the ticket.

Absolutely not.

[redqueen]

93. Would you call Bill Clinton a homophobe for DOMA or Don't Ask Don't Tell?

Just curious...

[Barack_America]

96. Seems he would have to...

If lack of legislative support for gay marriage is the criteria.

[redqueen]

100. Wedge issues sure pay off huge dividends. (nt)

[Maven]

123. Is it 1993? Or 2008?

And yes, Clinton exploited homophobia after DOMA to win votes.

And I'm really surprised to see this from you. Fair weather, eh?

[redqueen]

125. Sorry to disappoint you.

:shrug:

Wasn't team Clinton advising Kerry to shrug off the GLBT issues in 04?

[Maven]

126. "team Clinton"

Right, OK.

:eyes:

[redqueen]

127. What?

Does "the Clintons" work better for you?

:wtf:

I see a double standard at play... if you want to use that term as a reason to bow out of debating it, that's fine with me.

[Maven]

132. Bill, not Hillary, made that call.

That's not even the point. This is about KAINE, invoking "traditional values" to oppose any form of recognition for GLBT couples.

[redqueen]

137. Fair enough... I didn't know it was one more than the other...

so thanks for the info.

But my point still stands... double-standard... unless you were namecalling Bill Clinton as a homophobe back then.

As for him not being as good a VP pick due to that... I understand that's your view and that's your call to make... and I sympathize with why... for me I guess it's all pragmatism and the pro-war stance of the more 'experienced' candidates trumps it. I am honestly sorry if that offends you... it truly doesn't mean I support GLBT rights any less...

[Maven]

139. The pragmatic choice?

I thought Kaine, with his thin resume, was the right choice because he's a fresh face. Wasn't that it? Or are you saying we need a social conservative on the ticket to get all those ultrareligious RW voters who always go for Democrats? :rofl:

I'm sure you realize that Obama's dwindling lead is at least in part due to disillusionment caused by his rightward tack. What would say "politics as usual" more than picking a conservative Dem to "balance" the ticket?

I guess if Kaine is the VP, and Obama fails to support DOMA's repeal, or DADT's repeal, we'll know who was whispering in his ear. And then maybe in 2016, when Kaine is running for pres, hopefully he'll have caught up to, oh, 2000 civil rights-wise.

[redqueen]

140. No... I'm not saying we need a social conservative on the ticket.

:wtf:

And you'd be wrong about what I realize about Obama's "dwindling" lead.

If the choice is between a social conservative and a cheerleader for the war... I'd pick the social conservative.

As for civil rights... congress does more than the VP or Pres. So... again... :wtf:


And a :rofl: just for good measure. :eyes:

[Maven]

141. Well then I would say

that your priorities vis-a-vis electoral strategy are totally askew. Domestic issues (e.g., the economy) are far more important this election. I don't see your view as pragmatic at all--I see it as rather self-interested.

[redqueen]

142. The war is an ENORMOUS part of the economy. How many billions per month are being wasted

because those "experienced" dems couldn't rip their lips from bush's ass?

And what the everlovin fuck do you mean by "self-interested"?

And please tell me you don't like Biden... if the economy is your big concern.

[Maven]

143. I agree,

but at this point most people don't give a good goddamn about one vote however many years ago--they care about who's got the chops to take care of business TODAY.

Politics is perception. The sad truth is, it matters not who would actually do a better job in office. What matters is who adds to the perception that the Obama ticket has the gravitas to handle things properly. (And before you attack me, no, I don't think Obama really needs any "help" in any area).

In that regard, Biden would be a better choice but he's too far at the other end of the spectrum: too entrenched, and too experienced. He'd make the ticket look bottom-heavy.

[redqueen]

145. I couldn't disagree more...

as I've said elsewhere... IMO the reason Obama has done as well as he has is that he's able to engage younger voters like no one since Kennedy... and part of the reason he's able to do that (again, IMO) is that he can speak with integrity on the issue of that fucking needless invasion.

You call it "one vote however many years ago"... but others call it the litmus test with which they can determine whether the person speaking just more of the same, or someone worth believing in and trusting.

Millions have lost their lives... trillions have been wasted.

It's so much more than "one vote"... it's an enormously influential vote, and what those people who voted for it have said about that vote since the war started says more than many here apparently care to think to a vast number of young voters.

[harun]

94. Please, like he is actively oppressing the LGBT community or something

Get over yourself.

[Maven]

124. Someone who makes statements like he has made is actively contributing

to the political oppression of GLBT people.

You get over yourself.

[BigDDem]

95. No, it's a really really bad idea

I know a lot of you folks dont keep up but let me pass along a news flash - experience is a issue in this campaign.
Kaine has been a gov for what, 2 or 3 years? Before that he was
mayor of the "105th-largest city in America?"
Bad, bad idea.

[redqueen]

98. Experience = status quo insider.

That's how I see it anyway. :shrug:

Obama's doing better than anyone could have possibly dreamed... and he was a state senator a few years ago.

[BigDDem]

101. Tim Kaine is no Barack Obama

[redqueen]

102. Yeah... they're different people. That's absolutely correct.

:wtf:

[Phoonzang]

97. No. It's a nexus of inexperience. nt

[redqueen]

99. Experience = Status Quo Insider

That's how I see it anyway.

Obama's doing better than anyone could have possibly dreamed... and he was a state senator a few years ago.

(just gonna cut & paste this from now on...)

[SeaLyons]

103. No..

What does Kaine bring to the ticket???

[redqueen]

104. VA, backbone, "not an insider" status. (nt)

[BigDDem]

105. Inexperience.

[SeaLyons]

109. ....

Exactly.....:rofl:

[Milo_Bloom]

106. Better than Biden, Clinton, Bayh or other war voters.

But still not great, but at least I could vote for this ticket.

[redqueen]

107. Experience = playing the fool in the run-up to the unnecessary Iraq invasion...

or worse - repeating the neo-con's lies AFTER the needless war was already under way.

A most excellent point... thanks! :hi:

[Dinger]

108. No

Nice guy, wrong choice.

[BigDDem]

110. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Tanks rolling into Georgia, .....

Who do the American people want a heartbeat away?

Tim Kaine!
:rofl:
:rofl:

[redqueen]

111. Biden, Clinton, Bayh - how many of those DIDN'T vote for the war in Iraq?

How many repeated the WH's lies after the invasion started?

:shrug:

[BigDDem]

113. How did Kaine vote?

Wait, he was the Lt Gov of VA!

:rofl:

[redqueen]

114. He flatly stated the war was based on lies in 06. When did those people admit they'd been suckered

by the WH lies?

That's assuming they never repeated those lies... and also assuming they've all admitted that they were fooled by the lies.

[BigDDem]

116. You're preaching to the choir sweetie, I was against the war too.

2006? Yeah, a lot of people (finally) figured it out by then also.
If you think TK is the most qualified person in this country to be a heartbeat away, I'm very sure you are in the minority.
Obama is way to smart to pick him.

[redqueen]

117. I'm not preaching... just pointing out the weakness in those 'experienced' candidates.

I think it's a great boon to Obama's candidacy that he never went along with the lies.

If Obama is, as you say, too smart to pick him, then there's no need for your continued participation in this thread, is there?

[BigDDem]

118. but it's so much fun...

Do you think TK is the 2nd most qualified person in America to be president?

[redqueen]

119. Wasn't that Hillary's line? That experience made McCain more qualified than Obama?

Sorry... but it's not all about experience IMO.

And it's not all about qualified to be president (as several recent VP's have so clearly demonstrated). Nothing matters unless he can win the election. And IMO having a war-cheerleader on the ticket is going to do the opposite of help.

Obviously YMMV.

[BigDDem]

120. "And it's not all about qualified to be president "

I can see why Kaine is your guy; good luck with that!

[redqueen]

121. Why are you telling me good luck? Do you think I'm Obama?

Posting here in secret?

Geezaloo, guy.

[Tektonik]

112. Hell no

[Tommy_Carcetti]

115. I like it a lot.

Chances are some of the single-issuers will raise a stink or two, but from everything I've heard about Kaine, he seems like a good choice.

[Stop Cornyn]

128. More than any other tickets, Obama-Kaine and Obama-Sebelius confirm Obama's authenticity when he say

that he will value judgment over experience, and that he will bring a new post-partisan solution to fix what is broken in Washington DC.

Kaine and Sebelius are both outsiders rather than Inside-the-Beltway hacks; they both have amazing life stories and bring atypical skill sets to the table; they both help in swing states; and -- most importantly -- they both are genuine friends of Obama's who Obama trusts.

I think picking Kaine or Sebelius would be a terrifically confident choice and would take the battle to McCain's home turf. Many of the potential VP getting more media attention are defensive choices which implicitly concede issues to McCain.

[QC]

129. Well, it certainly fits with the "Hug the Homophobes" strategy that our party has embraced. n/t

[redqueen]

130. Again with the namecalling... did you call Bill Clinton a homophobe

in 2004 when he advised Kerry to distance himself from GLBT issues?

[QC]

131. I thought it was shitty of him, and all too typical to turn on his friends

in hopes of making his enemies like him. That was the thing I least liked about Bill Clinton.

Kaine is to the right of even Dick Cheney on gay issues. Think about that one for a minute.

Our party has had lots of warm hugs for homophobes lately--think Donnie McClurkin, Kirbyjon Caldwell, Leah Daughtry, and Sam Nunn. It makes for a very unappealing pattern, doesn't it?

[redqueen]

133. Yeah I know... it's don't like it either. In Clinton or Kaine or anyone.

But at some point pragmatism comes into play... it's up to each of us to make the decision of where that line gets drawn, if ever.

Our party has warm hugs for warmongers too... there's lots of shit I don't like about it... but in this country I don't have the option of voting green, cause of the way our electoral system is rigged. (And I do mean RIGGED. Two party good-cop/bad-cop fuckers...)

[QC]

135. I agree--it's definitely rigged.

They give us two lousy options and scare us into picking one of them on the grounds that the other's even worse.

It's long past time for election reform. I'm sick of the duopoly.

[npincus]

134. no. He needs a pit bull.

[redqueen]

136. I think Kaine does pretty well bad-mouthing cons.

:shrug:

[IndianaJones]

138. I wouldn't mind Big Daddy Kane. nt

[Bucky]

144. That blister on my elbow kept itching and getting infected... until I applied Obamakaine to it.

Aahhhh.... soothing...

.

[redqueen]

146. Hahahahah... yes!

See... that's how it sounds to me... like something that brings relief to this country after the pain of the last 8 years.

I didn't even notice the "ma Kaine" thing at first. I think that's just stupid.

[silverlil]

147. No way!

He will lose the election if he goes with this guy. I am already beginning to have doubts if Obama will be able to win now. How do we turn these polls around? Like I said in a previous post, he has to stop praising McShame - this hero BS has to come to a stop.

My personal feeling is, if he does not pick Clark or Clinton, he is going to lose. Ever since this trip to Europe he is going south.

[redqueen]

148. Yeah... um... enjoy your stay!

:hi: