We Don't Need Rick Warren

[Zomby Woof]

"I could not vote for an atheist because an atheist says, 'I don't need God,' " Warren said. "They're saying, 'I'm totally self-sufficient by .' And nobody is self-sufficient to be president by themselves. It's too big a job." (Source: LA Times, August 18, 2008)

Hey Reverend pRick, no president ever claimed to go it alone. That's why George Washington created a Cabinet. Advisors. You know, actual people you can see and hear. You can speak to them without clasping your hands and kneeling down. Presidents can pray to invisible beings all they want, but the decisions are made by real PEOPLE, with very real world consequences. Jimmy Carter prayed to the same god that George W. lays claim to, but do you really think the results of their prayers would be so divergent if it didn't actually come down to each of them being individually responsible for their own actions and policies? Must you scapegoat some ancient deity for the outcome of all this?

Oh wait, you don't speak the language of reason, so I'll retract those questions. I know your answer to the latter question anyway.

I am realistic enough to know that we will never elect an open atheist to the White House. I know that candidates are expected to make token pronouncements of faith, mom, apple pie, and free rollover minutes to get a shot at the Oval Office. It's one of the uglier truths of politics for Secular Americans. Most of us non-theistic types accept that, however grudgingly. We know (or better yet, hope) Senator Obama will not use his faith as a weapon of division or to make passive-aggressive digs at those of us who don't share in his beliefs or opinions about his god.

It's not that we "don't need" god, Rev, it's that we don't need the rationalizations that god or faith provides those who would use it as a shield to justify war, greed, and abuse of power. You know, like the current occupant of the office. Jefferson and Madison were on to charlatans like you very early in the game. You might say they had a purpose: driven by reason and the Enlightenment instead of ignorance and The New Dark Ages.

[Owl]

1. Never heard of Warren until the last few days,

[madeline_con]

7. The only reason he's famous is because that broad who was

kidnapped was reading his book. :puke:

He would have faded into obscurity by now if not for that incident.

"On March 14, a dramatic story was added to the book's lore. Ashley Smith picked the book off her nightstand and began reading chapter 33 to Brian Nichols, who earlier in the day had murdered four people in a shooting spree, sought shelter in Smith's apartment, and then took her hostage. On Day 33 of the book, Warren writes, "We serve God by serving others. The world defines greatness in terms of power, possessions, prestige, and position. If you can demand service from others, you've arrived. In our self-serving culture with its me-first mentality, acting like a servant is not a popular concept."
As the hours rolled on, she read him portions of the book--and convinced him that his life had a purpose, given to him by God. Smith suggested to him that God's vision for her life was to help Nichols see his own purpose--evangelizing in prison."

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/162/story_16242_1.html

[Owl]

12. Thanks!

[babylonsister]

2. Great post, thanks. And I have 'full faith' that Obama won't use

faith as a weapon; his personal opinions aside, I honestly believe he needs to go there to win, he knows that, respects all opinions, but his won't be a faith-based admin. There's too many issues to tackle.

[Owl]

3. Great post ZombyWoof.

K&R

[Hoof Hearted]

4. I think this whole thing has borne out the wisdom of keeping politics and religion as far away from

each other as possible.

I HATE HATE HATE religion in my politics. I hate it when the repubs do it, and I hate it when Democrats do it too.

[patrice]

5. I wish once, just ONCE, someone would ask these guys what the definition of Blasphemy is.

[Hugabear]

25. It's the one sin that you can never be forgiven for

Once you commit blasphemy, you're doomed to Hell. Any other sin - murder, rape, stealing, lying, etc - can be forgiven. But not blasphemy.

But what exactly is this sin, the one sin that is so grave that it automatically damns you? Well, we can't tell you exactly what it is. But if you happen to commit it, you'll find out. :sarcasm:

[patrice]

27. It's equating one's self with God. One's own understanding is identical with the mind of God regardi

ng whatever, "God wants/thinks/feels _______________________." People speak for God ALL of the time, "God hates Fags." "This sin is worse than that sin." "The ends justifies the means." "God this.... God that.... God the other thing ...." In traditional Christian conventions, it is quite simply Blasphemy.

I don't think of these things in a superstitious way. As with many of the laws of nature, "spiritual" truths have many parallels in the concrete physical world. I don't know about "forgiven for"; it seems to me that we don't have enough information to make that kind of judgement. There ARE concrete here and now consequences for being in error and those consequences CAN be severe when one habitually mistakes one's errors for perfect absolute universal truth, rational, spiritual or otherwise.

[patrice]

29. P.S. I brought up the definition of Blasphemy because God is THEIR thing and they don't

even GET basic "Christian" theology.

[Mike Nelson]

6. Warren is now an established, respected "leader"

it's disgusting. His "forum" may now be expected.

shudder...

[dflprincess]

8. At the risk of getting myself into a whole lot of trouble

wasn't this "Purpose Driven Life" crap something Oprah was pushing for a while? And, if I'm right about that, do you suppose she's sorry now?

[emilyg]

11. She was pushing it.

[dflprincess]

16. So, perhaps Warren would have stayed in his cave

if Oprah had not given him a push. Pity.

[emilyg]

22. I rather enjoyed his book.

Not sorry I read it.

[WeDidIt]

9. Warren is a lying sack of shit

At least Falwell and Robertson actually BELIEVED The shit they spewed.

[ladjf]

20. My intuition tells me that Warren is as phony as they get.

Further, I would be surprised if he has ever knowingly had a conversation with an atheist.

[vssmith]

30. Elmer Gantry

Sinclair Lewis had these types pegged years ago.

[Top Cat]

10. He will soon be yesterdays news

[kristyt]

13. Still Smart Move For Obama--Hurts Muslim and Anti-christ idea nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Good Post..... A Forum about "Values" and the host Lies and his

Candidate McCain Cheats.......Some values.

[bluerum]

15. He's a professional bible shyster, not a professional politician. There is a

slight but distinct difference, and Rev pRick don't get it.

:evilgrin:

[WhiteTara]

17. that clipped beard/mustache is creepy

it makes me really squeamish...it has that sexual predator look about it.

[Avalux]

18. Warren is just another performer, entertaining from the pulpit for profit.

He's a liar and a greedy, rich fat white man preaching to greedy, rich white people (mostly). I do not think Jesus would approve of this sort of "Christianity".

[inna]

19. i beg to differ WRT "we will never elect an open atheist to the White House"

it's going to take two generations.... or perhaps 30 years... until there's an atheist in the WH.

sorry, but progress is unstoppable.

[ladjf]

23. If the Country ever reached the level of enlightenment that would

allow them to vote for a qualified atheist, the battle would have already been won.

We can't keep electing these politicians who base their chances for success on high well they can "con" the religious right. "I'm going to vote for him/her because he is a good God fearing man."

Using that kind of nonsensical criteria can get a Country into a lot of trouble very quickly.

By the way, I'm not saying that a smart and caring religious person couldn't be a great President. Carter is an example that they could.

[burythehatchet]

21. yet another doughy pantload to replace the dead one

[Trajan]

24. Rick who ?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Spot on Zomby. Rick Warren is a colossal asswipe.

Not to mention the height of arrogant. Here is a man who makes millions of dollars telling people to how to live their lives by ceding their personal autonomy to his imaginary sky fairy and he has the NERVE to call ME arrogant??? :grr:

Excuse me, but I would never presume to think that I knew all the answers for myself, let alone for everyone else as he so cavalierly does.

[JeffR]

28. Why, oh why

do you hate Warren America?

K & R!

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. The difference between Rick Warren and a Christian is vast.

Not quite as vast as the difference between Joel Osteen or Creflo Dollar and a Christian, but it's pretty fucking vast all the same.

That the media would go to a guy like Warren, who knows as much about Christianity and faithful living and theology as Mother Theresa knew about off-track betting, shows what dumb fucking media we have, and also helps bolster the fact that the media are not at all, by any stretch of the imagination, liberal.

[LisaM]

32. I can't believe that EITHER candidate went and kowtowed to that cluck.

He's smarmy. I saw him (briefly) on Larry King yesterday with a big shit-eating grin on his face. From the little I saw of his grilling of the candidates (which was completely unseemly, IMO), it seemed to be a ploy to get them to condemn abortions.

I am really tired of watching abortion rights being whittled away and I'm really tired of how churches are forcing politicians to dance around the issue.

I didn't think that Hillary and Obama should have done that ealier "compassion" thingie they did during the primaries either. Though it was marginally better than this was.

[jus_the_facts]

33. kick

:rant: