On last night's forum, did you catch the part where McCain came out against unions?

[hedgehog]

WE MUST PRESERVE THE PRIVACY OF ALL OF OUR

7 CITIZENS AS MUCH POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT’S ONE OF THE

8 FUNDAMENTAL AND BASIC RIGHTS WE HAVE. AND BY THE WAY,

9 INCLUDING A SECRET BALLOT FOR UNION ORGANIZERS, A SECRET

10 BALLOT, NOT A BALLOT THAT SOMEONE COMES AROUND AND SIGNS

11 YOU UP, THAT’S A DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

http://thepage.time.com/partial-transcript-of-saddleback-forum/

[Muttocracy]

1. didn't even sound accurate to me - just "unions are not democratic!!!!!11" nt

[Bluerthanblue]

2. yes-!! and as thinking that

"the enemy" has all kinds of high tech communications advantages over the US- very FISA friendly.

Here in NH there have been a bunch of anti-union ads, with a McCain flavor to them. ??

[Diamonique]

3. Sorry, but it doesn't read that way to me.

It sounds like he said people should be able to vote on whether or not to have a union at their workplace via secret ballot rather than having the employer sending goons around and intimidating people. And also not having the unions send their goons to force people to sign up.

If I'm reading this right, I agree with him on that.

But we all know he's not fighting to protect the basic rights and privacy of citizens. It was all just a lot of talk and lies.

[PurityOfEssence]

4. I think it was actually a really clever example of telegraphing different things to different groups

It plays to rabid anti-union outsourcers by making it seem that they won't let union organizers use peer pressure to intimidate the weak into their communist scheme.

It plays to union organizers by making it seem that their activities are being protected and that they're being allowed "private" contact with workers to pitch their plan out of the spotlight of corporate scrutiny.

It plays to the grand old American mythic cowboy characteristic of the lone libertarian dealing with things him/herself and not being hustled by the group. (You can also see it as buttressing his fierce maverick schtick in the same way.)

It plays to those who like the forthright and simplistic leader, and that's where McCain scored points last night: saying things with extreme simplicity and unequivocal finality. Sadly, far too many weak people LOVE the cocky, swaggering executive image; it's like nuns going to see gangster movies...

It also showed a moment where he hijacked the questioning for a second to make an only somewhat related point, but made it quickly and then went back to complying with the questioning. To many, this shows a sense of manners while still displaying the rebel chieftain image.

[XemaSab]

6. But union ballots have NOTHING to do with the government

The question was about what rights citizens have to privacy FROM THEIR GOVERNMENT, not their neighbors or unions or the National Enquirer. :shrug:

[Diamonique]

8. Oh I know it didn't have anything to do with the question.

Very few of his answers did.

He went in there with his talking points ready, and just threw them out there whether appropriate or not... mostly not.

[valerief]

9. That's exactly how I interpreted what he said. I don't even understand

how that translates to an anti-union statement. (But please note, I'm very anti-McCain't.)

[hedgehog]

10. It is very hard to bring a union into a company that doesn't have one.

AS far as I know, the law now is that if you get 30% of the employees to sign a card, then an election must be held to determine if people want to join a union. If 50% +1 sign, then the union is formed automatically. For some reason, companies are death on this system. I'm not sure why.

Lots more info here:

http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/employee-free-choice-act/resource-library/lies--distortion-on-the-secret-ballot-20080730-596-84-84.html

[goodgd_yall]

12. Good link---thank you. n/t

[XemaSab]

5. That was the only mention of "privacy" in his answer

and the rest was about cracking down on terrorists. :thumbsdown:

[Bluenorthwest]

7. Wow!

Folks, go do some reading. The 'secret ballot' anti-union thing is going to be one of the GOP's huge issues in this campaign. McCain did his part well.

[goodgd_yall]

11. Yep, I caught it--and I thought...

"you f*cker." It's a sorry state of affairs when a candidate can make such a blatant anti-union remark and not feel his campaign has been compromised.

:grr: