So we now have FORUM-GATE:

[PCIntern]

1. Andrea Mitchell thinks he had the questions in advance so we have validation by a MSM "star".

2. McCain was answering the questions in advance and had to spend NOT ONE MOMENT IN REFLECTION. No one can do that with questions such as these: he was prepared and jumped right in.

3. Did anyone else note that HE BECAME NERVOUS EXACTLY WHEN THE MODERATOR STATED THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE QUESTIONS THAT OBAMA WAS NOT ASKED DUE TO 'TIME LIMITATIONS'? His whole mood darkened, changed, and he became rather manic.

4. Someone on the staff (or the pastor himself), slipped him the questions...could have been one of those: "I'm leaving the room for five minutes and won't be back. I trust that you won't copy the papers on my desk."

5. McCain was prepped all-around for the Supreme Court question and showed impatience to get to it...EVEN THOUGH IT HAD BEEN MENTIONED BY THE PASTOR, he wanted to quickly spew the names of everyone who didn't vote for the RW ideology, including those nominated by members of his own Party and those for whom he had voted.

6. I believe that there's enough smoke considering the obvious wiring of Bush during his debates, that this should become an issue the way the RWers make issues for the Dems.

Some examples for the bottom of the TV screen:

McCain: Do you think he cheated during the forum?

McCain: Did he have the questions in advance?

...many others possible.

[BlooInBloo]

1. There's also blowback on the rich-only-need-apply position they took...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/church-tickets-event-2125034-ticket-burger

[Flying Dream Blues]

39. Rich? I figure A LOT of people who make less than $5M can afford a $1000 ticket!

:sarcasm:

(As if you needed the sarcasm thingie)

[glowing]

2. Wondered when all the "gates" would start up again.. Kinda missin' them since

Hillary's out.. Ya'll found a "gate" every freakin' time the woman or her husband opened her mouth.. It was very effective.. Stop being scared of Grandpa and hit him..

[cliffordu]

6. LOL "stop being scared of grandpa and hit him..."

:rofl:

[redstate_democrat]

3. Oh yeah he cheated.

The moment he found out there would be new questions, his face tightened up and he panicked. He is such a fucking loser.

[Motown_Johnny]

4. If he was slipped the questions then the ones not asked to Obama would have been on the list

it seems more likely that he was able to listen to the first hour via a small radio or something.


Assuming Andrea is correct about him having the questions ahead of time.

[fasttense]

5. I think he was allowed to view the Obama interview before he was

interviewed himself. It seems so obvious. He avoids saying the same thing Obama said. Is that just a different POV or is it due to having reviewed what Obama said? McSame was too ready. It all sounded rehearsed. How can you be rehearsed if you don't know what is coming? My friends I tell you this man, McSame knew what Obama said before he was interviewed himself. He is a fraud. The specialty of republicans.

But in the end, Obama did so well that the fraud was of little impact.

Hey, those Christ-less Christians sure know about honesty.

[PCIntern]

7. you mean to tell me that the Obama people

did not have anyone in the room with McCain for the hour beforehand?

also, my point is that he was concerned that he might have had answers which were too truncated compared with Obama's lengthy, erudite explanations, and that he, McCain, would appear shallow by comparison.

[fasttense]

8. Yes, I believe Obama's people trusted McSame

to do as was agreed upon. But I also think Obama and his folks really didn't care if McSame and his buddies the Christ-less Christians violated the rules.

The only thing missing in McSame's statements is "I disagree with Obama," or some such telling statement.

[tinrobot]

12. Exactly right.

He saw Obama go first. Pretty obvious.

[bcoylepa]

9. NOT TRUE

I watched Meet the Press this morning - Mitchell did not say that she thought this - she said the OBama campaign was putting out word that maybe McCain had the questions in advance or could hear

she was trying to say that Obama was saying that to cover up for a poor performance
I think she was making it up - but then again - that seems to be all they do these days

but we - Obama supporters - should have our facts straight and not feed the MSM machine

[fasttense]

11. Why? The facts are not important to the Corporate media anyway.

What difference does it make if they realize McSame cheated and turn it around to make it look like Obama was saying it or if we say it. In fact, If I had cheated like McSame had, I would put out that Obama was saying it in an effort to keep Obama from saying it. It's the perfect offense.

Sort of like the cheat in high school who says "I didn't cheat, he's just saying that cause he lost."

[Kahuna]

16. True but... The fact that Mitchell didn't sneer or snicker when she

said that about the Obama team's theory, is the same as Mitchell thinking it too. :tinfoilhat:

[unfaithful_servant]

32. Obama should be prepared

McCain cheating during forums and debates should assumed. That's the way the GOP operates, they never play fair and the news media never calls them on it. Its a fact, accept it.

Obama needs to be well studied and prepared to answer any question, any time on any topic. Its fairly simple and straightforward. Bill Clinton was incredibly accomplished in debate and discussion skills on substantive public policy topics. Its one of the things that helped him win 2 terms.

Obama needs to do the same. Skills, knowledge of issues, practice in extemporaneous debate and discussion are a requirement for the Dem candidate to win. GOP will always cheat. The Dem has to be twice as good as the GOP candidate to be perceived as half as competent. Unfair? Yes, but its a reality. Good luck trying to rewrite that rule.

If Obama needs more practice in debate and discussion, he needs to get to it pronto.

[Top Cat]

10. I think McSame cheated.... McSame is a complete ass

[geek_sabre]

13. if he had the questions beforehand

he WOULD NOT have said that the rich starts at $5 million.

He was very well prepared, probably more prepared than Obama. These are all the sorts of questions McCain gets at Town Hall Meetings. He's had a whole summer of prep.

As for his merit pay answer, its nearly verbatim from his platform from 2000:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/e2000/blmccain.htm

We have to have choice and competition in our schools in order to improve our school system, including charter schools, including a test voucher program that would be paid for with ethanol subsidies and with sugar subsidies. And in order to make that system work, the test voucher program throughout America, we have to have good teachers, and I would argue that merit pay, rewards for good teachers and helping bad teachers find another line of work is the way we must go about it. -- Debate at Dartmouth College 10/29/99

[fasttense]

14. But wasn't that a question NOT asked of Obama? What is rich?

I'm seriously asking cause I haven't run both interviews next to each other. And my memory is about as bad as McSame's.

[geek_sabre]

15. Obama was asked that question

He said $250,000 i believe.

[Muttocracy]

18. yes, sort of in the range of 150,000 - 250,000 depending on part of the country

[csziggy]

23. Warren said "YOU GOT ALL MY QUESTIONS, GOOD" to McCain

Unedited:
8 Q OKAY. WE DON’T HAVE TO GO LONGER ON THAT ONE.

9 DEFINE MARRIAGE.

10 A UNION — A UNION BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN, BETWEEN

11 ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT’S MY DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE.

12 ARE WE GOING TO GET BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPREME

13 COURT JUSTICES.

14 Q WE’LL GET TO THAT.

15 A ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

16 Q YOU GOT ALL MY QUESTIONS, GOOD.

[geek_sabre]

24. you interpret that as a "nudge nudge, wink wink"

i didn't see that at all in that exchange.

McCain wanted to discuss Supreme Court justices in the context of the marriage question, so he asked if they were going to ask about it later or if he should talk about it at that time.

It seemed Warren was joking.

[csziggy]

25. At the time, my take was - and still is - that McCain was primed with the questions

His answers seemed prepared. And even though Warren asked Obama to not use campaign rhetoric, McCain's answers were nothing but campaign talking points.

I think Warren may have tried to make it sound as though he were joking, but I do believe McCain had the questions ahead of time.

[geek_sabre]

27. exactly my point. he did have the questions beforehand

in the sense that he's had the same, if not very similar questions asked of him in every debate and town hall since '99. His responses to most questions are essentially verbatim from his debates from 1999 and 2000. These faith-related questions are the questions he gets at every single one of his town hall debates. Many of these questions were asked at the republican debates as well He did get thrown off by a few questions, namely the one about the 3 most influential people and the rich. He had to wiggle quite a bit to get his stock responses in.

Its not about cheating, its about being well prepared. McCain is very well prepared on these issues, and unfortunately thrives in this sort of exchange. As a result, he came across smooth and in command of the issues, even likable among that crowd, whereas Obama's thoughtfulness came across as overly nuanced, and more detatched.

If you think McCain did better than you expected, just say so. He absolutely had an unfair advantage, in the sense that these are issues that are talked about much more frequently in republican debates and forums than democratic ones, but to suggest that he was specifically fed the questions ahead of time or listened to Obama's exchange is far from evident.

[csziggy]

28. I'd only think McCain did better if I liked his canned responses to everything

I prefer, as probably do most Democratic voters, a thoughtful, considered response. Unfortunately many Americans have allowed their politics to be dumbed down to the talking heads shallowness.

I believe Obama was prepared, though he did not have the list of questions. He knows the issues and can discuss them thoroughly without resorting to the prepared talking points from his campaign staffers.

It is the difference between the D student getting a copy of the test with answers ahead of time and memorizing the answers and the A student who knows the subjects and can give his own answers with a true insight into the questions.

Now, who do we want to lead our country? The cheater or the prepared, intelligent person? To me THAT is is important point.

[geek_sabre]

33. Obviously, Obama appeals to us

I don't think he lost any voters last night. I do, however, think that leaners watching will go for McCain. I don't know that Obama won anyone over last night. Not because the leaners are idiots, but because McCain was good at staying on message. Keep the answers short and succinct, and use the rest of the time to introduce yourself to the audience. Hence all the POW stories. Obama's responses simply weren't as memorable, save for the "paygrade" one." That's not good. To minimize McCain's ability to connect with an audience is a mistake. It doesn't require cheating, but it did come with much practice. While many in this thread make elderly jokes about his memory, this old man looked much more animated than Obama in this forum, and that alone will resonate with voters.

While it is clear to us that Obama has a strong understanding of the issues, he, at times, simply came across as unprepared, or worse, uninformed. While I don't expect him to spout off talking points like MccCain does, he seriously needs to do some coach work to reign in the "Uh"s and "Ums" and the "You know"s.

[iamthebandfanman]

17. to me, the thing was fixed regardless

i told everybody this was a bad idea.
classic guns,gays,God situation.
lets see, you got obama ... whos a faith kinda guy but doesnt believe in impossing religious views and is gonna answer to reflect that.....
or you have mccain... somebody who will say whatever he needs to say to make a certain group of people happy regardless of the consitution or bill of rights...

you then put them in a room full of people that get made happy by the anythings mccain will say.


right from the get go, this isnt a fair forum... it should have never been agreed to by Obama.
this was meant to be an attempt to take obama down by using the classic right wing religious nut issues against him... guns gays and abortion.

apparently because the media told us this pastor wasnt a huge whacko, that meant he must have a more moderate view... well, sure if your a die hard christian he might seem moderate...but to all us regular folk hes just as whacked out as any of them if he believes in damning people.

this whole thing was a massive ploy to appeal to the religious nuts. thats all. nothing more, nothing less. McCain NEEDS and HAS TO HAVE their support or hes just not gonna win... plain and simple... they know that too... and tonite was their way of gaining that back.

they dont care who they hafta use to get what they want, they could give a damn about those people sitting in that church or their believes... but theyll sure say they do... whatever it takes to get into that office so they can make their money.

[PCIntern]

19. Here's the best part:

It doesn't HAVE to be true, it only has to be ALLEGED. That's what they do: Is Obama a Muslim?

works, doesn't it?

in this case it might well be true, however.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. won't matter, won't be covered. they KNEW George Will had a hand in

tutoring Reagan with Jimmy Carter's stolen debate prep docs, then editorialized on how RR destroyed JC. look how much it damaged his career.

McCain has more teflon than my frying pans, and, unlike them, it's not showing any signs of erosion

dems had BETTER start making some noise, start using the VIDEO record of McCain's inability to distinguish between fact and fiction, in his own words. if his complete lack of credibility on almost EVERY issue can be brought forward, it should be his undoing, cause an exposed LIAR has no chance, even when the M$M tries to cover for him. look how easy it was to get George Allen off the stage. if only they'd have not covered that one, he'd probably have won the nomination, and this election truly would have been a dem landslide

WHERE ARE the dems on this?

if they're keeping their powder dry, it's time to check the humidor. THey better be planning a massive buy during the Fascis.....ooops, republican convention

[LWolf]

20. Does this mean you think he did well in the forum? nt

[PCIntern]

22. He neither blew snot on his jacket nor did he forget who he was...

so by the republican definition of doing well, yes he did well.

did I think that his answers were cogent...or even answers? No.

[dbonds]

26. All he needed to get the questions was a cell phone and someone watching on TV.

Wouldn't take James Bond to get them or a big conspiracy.

[csziggy]

29. But is McCain capable of getting his canned answers memorized in that short of a time?

I seriously doubt it.

[dbonds]

34. Well, he had time to talk over answers with his handlers while Obama answered.

McLame's answers were from his stump speeches and probably all he needed to know was what to have cued up.

[csziggy]

37. Now it turns out that McCain was late and not in that "cone of silence"

He had half an hour before he even arrived. And you are right - every single one of his answers was out of one of his stump speeches. Even though Warren asked Obama not to use his stump speeches I did not hear him ask McCain not to.

[foo_bar]

30. McCain... use a cell phone? do they come in 48 pt?

I think the allegation is closer to the quiz show scandal, namely possessing the magic envelope well in advance of the show:

The end result: Twenty One was not merely "fixed", it was almost totally choreographed. Contestants were cast almost as if they were actors, and in fact were active and (usually) willing partners in the deception. They were given instruction as to how to dress, what to say to the host, when to say it, what questions to answer, what questions to miss, even when to mop their brows in their isolation booths (which had air conditioning that could be cut off at will, to make them sweat more). <...>

Stempel, meanwhile, still somewhat upset over the fact he was ordered to "take a dive," attempted to blow the whistle on what exactly was going on behind the scenes at Twenty One, even going so far as to have a federal investigator look into the show. Nothing much came of these investigations until August 15, 1958, when a relatively minor CBS game show, Dotto, was abruptly canceled after a notebook containing the answers to every question on that show turned up in the possession of its champion. Suddenly, Stempel's allegations began to make a lot more sense. Still, the public at large didn't seem to want to believe it was true until Van Doren, under oath before a House hearing, confessed to being given the answers to all of his questions before each show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_One_(game_show)

[harun]

31. He cheated but it will only help him

Anyone at this point who is in the McCain camp won't be swayed by lying, cheating, fraud, breaking the rules, murder, genocide or war crimes (just to name a few).

[TrogL]

35. Well, he did admit to attempting to listen through the wall

Maybe he succeeded.

[depakid]

36. Look- it was OBVIOUS

Especially to anyone in the MSM who has any acting experience.

[Skwmom]

38. McCain graduate in the bottom of his class. So there is no way in heck he could have

answered w/out a moment in reflection.

[flamingdem]

40. I think Warren was disturbed by his attitude, he knew something was wrong nt

3. Did anyone else note that HE BECAME NERVOUS EXACTLY WHEN THE MODERATOR STATED THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE QUESTIONS THAT OBAMA WAS NOT ASKED DUE TO 'TIME LIMITATIONS'? His whole mood darkened, changed, and he became rather manic.

McCain was so slick and pushy compared to Obama and he took control from the moderator, a confusion technique because all he could do is give canned answers.