Saddleback? What's going on?

[Condem]

I hate to break it to the hard core but with the Olympics going on, I seriously doubt a whole lot of the electorate watched.

[TexasObserver]

1. the only people who watched are those who are partisans

The purpose of this was to help McCain with fundies, and it did.

[mucifer]

2. But, it would have been worse for Obama if mcstupid went alone.

[1Hippiechick]

4. Au contraire. Other posts here and on DailyKos are already showing that McCain cheated with his

ready, canned answers, and even answered questions that were not asked! Haven't got time to link right now. That is significant, I think, and they are saying that Andrea Mitchell is acknowledging that McCain seemed to have known what the questions were before they were asked based on his ready responses.

[liberal1973]

14. Obama was still great.

[sushi]

27. I didn't like

his "above my pay grade" answer. It sounded hoity toity. Airy fairy. I guess he knew that if he answered the question honestly, the audience wouldn't like it.

[kcass1954]

18. And yet the Sunday morning spin is that mcasshole is "on his game",

while Obama was grasping for answers and didn't seem prepared.

[AllentownJake]

9. Thanks to the wonderful world of the internets and digital recording

We now have 45 minutes of tape of Obama with a famous Pastor who calls him his friend. We also have 45 minutes of Obama explaining his christianity. I.E. We have someone mainstream christians like talking to his friend Obama about his faith. I.E. Obama isn't a secret Muslim.

McCain has 45 minutes of him repeating the same talking points he repeats on the stump everyday with a Pastor the hardcore fundies don't like in the background.


Thank you Saddleback church.

[patrice]

3. Crash told a story about a Viet Namese gaurd who did the OPPOSITE of what he wants us to do in Iraq

This demonstrated that his understanding of Christianity is limited to trite phrases and cliches.

His point in the gaurd story was how he and the gaurd worshipped a cross drawn in the dirt, not how the gaurd was living the message by being kind to the enemy.

[grannie4peace]

6. i think you point is well taken---

i doubt any of the audience caught what you are talking about

[patrice]

7. Too many people fixated on symbols and images (graven or otherwise).

When I was a teenager in Catholic school and I first heard about Martin Luther, I thought "Right On!".

Christianity is supposed to be a Revolution against the-powers-that-be and any REAL Revolution MUST begin with self criticism.

It appears to me, that for many people, being "Forgiven and Saved" as McCain said last night, obviates the necessity of self-examination and reform.

[KittyWampus]

13. I love your post. So insightful.

[1Hippiechick]

20. Obama so far, far surpassed McCain in what he said that indicated that he LIVES his faith

including his approach to the Presidency. While O didn't quote scripture, his addressing meeting the needs of society are right out of Matthew 25:35-

This would not have been overlooked by Christians who have even a slight knowledge of Christ's teachings. Obama's faith, IMO, represents one of Spirituality rather than one of "religion"

[patrice]

21. Agree. The differences were very very distinct. Obama was real. McCain was canned.

Obama was personally open about the cross he (and, by implication, all of us) carries - to do the right thing for/with others.

McCain hid the whole time except when talking about his decision against early release, by virtue of which, he claims to be The One to give Us a Higher Purpose and to Destroy Evil.

Obama is striving to be Christ-like.
McCain is messianic.

[JohnnyLib2]

5. Place and format aside, McCain hit the same notes * did, twice.

I confess to posting from (red) KY, where conservative churches influence the vote. However, it won't be surprising to see a wave of war/God/terra/fear/flag/anti-abortion ads flood the entire south right away.

Our side absolutely can't ignore the fact that the tactic has worked for 8 years, IMO.

[patrice]

8. "same note" = I am The One to destroy Evil.

[saltpoint]

10. I posted in another thread that last evening was a good night to rent

CALIGULA.

'Cuz sometimes there just ain't a damn thing on cable.


:hi:

[CitizenPatriot]

11. aside from msm

I was very surprised by the clips with Obama talking where the audience applauded and even the interviewer (sorry I can't remember his name) said he liked Obama's answer about his moral failing. I got a sense that many of that crowd were relating to Obama's self-examination and liked him the more for it. It was genuine and of course, americans love a story of hope and redemption. I know they didn't like his answer re abortion, but I actually felt that they got to see a side of him they were unfamiliar with previously. They got to know him as a man, a christian, a husband and father. I think it was brilliantly played by Obama and he absolutely did the right thing by going on.

What is going to surprise people is the msm take on things not matching up with what they watched -- and just like andrea mitchell's change after her trip with obama, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the audience (I know it's not large, but it's a start) are taken aback by the difference in the way it is reported on versus what actually happened.

or people who aren't aware of the manipulations of the media, these moments of awakening can be startling. I am sure at least one person in that audience is going to be questioning the legitimacy and honesty of the news now.

And that is fantastic.

MSM can and will say whatever they want -- we know it won't be interesting, because they always say the same thing. We might as well have put the kerry debate on and replayed their comments from 2004. This is what will hurt them the most. In the media, not being with it, the hottest latest greatest hippest thing is what kills them. that's what the hysteria is about. They know they're a dying breed. They're terrified of losing the big bucks and the special treatment they get.

when Rachel gets her show, they're going to really freak out. they are yesterday's news (so pun intended).

Obama rocked last night- he was a man of integrity and thought.

I have faith in the majority of Americans. Each of us do have that place in our hearts that knows the truth when we hear it. Fundies are a lost cause, but in terms of christians, Obama was the only christian answering questions last night and that was powerfully clear. He understood and had internalized the teachings of Jesus. McCain was repeating phrases and then contradicting himself and christianity with his defeat evil and other angry, non-peaceful stances.

sorry so long! GOBAMA

[Cassandra]

19. I was watching on C-Span...

and most of the callers afterward definitely thought Obama was more thoughtful and McCain gave canned answers.

[Phx_Dem]

12. I thought it was really good.

I'm not terribly religious but I thought Rick Warren was very likeable and did a good job. Sadly (for the media), he was better than any of the debate moderators have been.

Obama was great. He's gotten great reviews; except the cable twits on MSBNC and CNN. Chuck Todd said he was more thoughtful and authentic, but somehow that means McCain did better. Go figure.

Mark Halperin grades them here: http://thepage.time.com/halperins-saddleback-forum-scorecard-grades/

Even Andrew Sullivan said Obama was "masterful." I was a little surprised to hear that from Andrew because of Obama's stance -- no to gay marriage/yes to civil unions.

McCain obviously heard Obama's answers or got the questions ahead of time. He's such an embicile, he can't even cheat well. Karl Rove must be so disappointed.

[otohara]

25. Sullivan Is Catholic

so is is used to the anti-gay marriage rhetoric and still calls himself a faithful Catholic. I know many Catholic women who've had abortions. The get exonerated from their priest, say a few Hail Marys and move on to the next church no, no!

[Phx_Dem]

30. I forgot that he was catholic! n/t

[Condem]

15. A huge roar went up in my neighborhood around 10:10 PM CDT..

last night. It must have been McCains abortion response. Well, I wondered what was going on.

[Irishonly]

16. I Hope People Didn't

As soon as I heard about it I checked out Saddleback's web page or whatever you call it and my heart sank. I figured it was a way to showcase McCain and a few threads I read here like the ones about McCain starting to answer before the question was finished reaffirmed my fear. McCain was given plenty of warning that he would be asked about his first marriage. People cheering about his choice of heroes didn't help either. I am still trying to figure out why people claiming to worship the Prince of Peace are war mongers and have been for centuries.

I am tired of the religious right hijacking our government. Our government is for all the people, not just them. I am a DOC and have had evangelicals tell me I am no Christian. Some of my sins are being anti war, accepting of all people whether their faith is different or they are atheists, being pro marriage for all and pro choice.

It makes me angry when politicians kowtow to groups. It seems the MSM is using the "conference" to promote McCain. I don't know why they don't start wearing pins.

[stray cat]

17. It was more substantive than the CNN debate with Wolf or ABC. Like Larry King interviews...

[Peacetrain]

22. I was flipping back and forth

between the two. Basically I watched all of Obama, and hits and misses with McCain. Obama was very good. Thoughtful responses. Every timed I tuned into McCain, it was like listening to something off his stump speech.

Hey Condem :hi:

[matt007]

23. All shit like Saddlewatever does is further validate religion.

[TrogL]

24. Many people have TIVO, DVR's and VCR's

I watched it at midnight on my digital recorder box (whatever it's called).

[Erin Elizabeth]

26. I've asked people today if they watched it

and they looked at me like I was crazy. I totally forgot: the Cowboys were playing a pre-season game against Denver last night (which Dallas lost). So um, around here, I think it's safe to say not many people were watching it, LOL. Between the Cowboys and the Olympics and possibly just being out on the town, nope.

[PassingFair]

28. As an atheist, I avoided it.

I don't WANT to hear my candidate slug it
out in a "who is more holier than thou"
contest.

I am uneasy enough about his "faith".

All we need is another president who
takes his orders from "god".

[Condem]

29. Amen, to that, PassingFair!!