How Do James Dobson and the Other Hate Preachers React To Rick Warren...

[Median Democrat]

Calling Barack Obama a personal friend, and vouching for Obama's Christianess? They could either try to undermine Rick Warren. Or, the Muslim/Anti-christ smears have been effectively addressed. Far from tearing down Rick Warren, I think the campaign should profusely thank Rick Warren for providing such a forum and addressing issues of faith.

My question is how does the radical right wing fundamentalists deal with Rick Warren's acknowledgement of Obama's christianity?

[MrModerate]

1. Warren is his own force. Dobson is not only a pissant de facto . . .

but a pissant de minimus in comparison to Warren.

Don't get me wrong -- all professional religionists give me the keep-one-hand-on-your-wallet vibe at one level or another, but Warren seems much more benign than most.

[Igel]

2. "Christianess"

I think I like that word. Not his "Christianity", or "that he's a Christian." Sort of makes it abstract, less ... direct.

Not sure it has to be a compliment, not at all sure.

Yeah, I like that degree of unclarity.

[iconicgnom]

25. When Christian religion meets with politics, I call it "jeezlyness", or just plain "jeezly"

[OmahaBlueDog]

3. I don't have a specific article to cite, but many have asserted Dobson is losing influence

To be sure, he still has a following, but the Dobson/Robertson/Falwell crowd is being eclipsed by preachers like TD Jakes, Joel Osteen, and Rick Warren. These guys have conservative Christian values, to be sure, but are more focused on a message of how faith in God can bring happiness, prosperity, and success to your daily life.

[Median Democrat]

4. I Do Like The Increased Focus On Social Justice - Less Exploitive

The one thing I really disliked about the Dobson/Robertson./Falwell crowd is that they totally ignored social justice, and used moral issues as a means to obscure the numerous biblical passages directed towards social justice. Jesus walked among the sinners and the poor. The bible contains numerous passages regarding the need to address poverty. However, the evangelical right has been conspicuously silent on social justice issues in America. Indeed, when they did address it, they would focus on foreign countries as if there was no poverty occurring in our own backyard.

There is no need to go to El Salvador. Just go to the inner city or a rural area to confront poverty and exploitation.

[Quixote1818]

5. They do tend to focus on the poor more as well. nt

[CAG]

6. They openly can't stand him because he knows the New Testament

is more than about homosexuality and abortion. Swaggerts people openly talk about him constantly as doing the work of the antichrist; I'm not joking.

[Critters2]

7. But he still talks about abortion and homosexuality.

He's no progressive. In some ways, I trust him less than the others, because he looks benign, while still preaching hate. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Median Democrat]

8. Still, Should We As Liberals Be Just As Intolerant, But On Different Viewpoints?

And ignore the major areas where liberals and christian viewpoints SHOULD overlap like social justice? If so, then we become mirror images with our very own litmus tests while ignoring the issues that are common to most of us. Sadly, Republicans have used these divisions to control the Presidency. However, issues like the education, social security and health care should be issues that christians and liberals directly overlap. I am not talking the corporate christianity that is sponsored by corporations. I am talking about the Christianity in the bible.

You mentioned abortion and homesexuality. How often are these subjects mentioned in the bible? Homosexuality? Only about 5 specific times, though fundametalists can get up to 20 or so with some creative interpretation. Abortion? First, abortion is not referenced in the bible at all, and most of the Religious Right's teaching is to a few references to a prophet in a womb.

Now, what about poverty? The bible has close to 200 clear references to poverty, perhaps up to 300 if you read poverty expansively.

So, why does the Religious Right dwell on abortion and homosexuality while paying little attention to poverty? Because homosexuality and abortion is a them issue, it is not a you issue. Poverty is a you issue that forces each Christian to deal with it right now.

If you are a straight male, you can stand still and avoid having an abortion or being gay. Sweat free christianity.

HOWEVER, poverty and social justice? Now, that forces you get off your duff and do something about it.

So, I am not going to bash on Christians who are serious about getting back to what the bible is really about, rather than focusing on issues that are not mentioned that often if at at all such as abortion and homesexuality.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. But Warren says

That gay people have no human rights. Yes he does. So he's not really as you paint him. He's a bigot and a charlatan.

[Median Democrat]

22. Here's Warrent Talking About AIDS - Sounds Reasonable - No AIDS Is God's Revenge Tripe

I think a lot of liberals are just mirror images of the far right. They may agree with someone 70% of the time, but because of that 30%, they want to focus on the 30% and not work with the 70% of agreement. Here's Rick Warren discussing AIDS:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/02/lkl.01.html

[tsuki]

14. Ding, ding, ding. A winner. He has seen the writing on the wall and

is softening his public Fundamental stances and building his base by raiding other Fundamentalist groups.

He is the more dangerous.

[otohara]

9. He May Be Different, But His Followers Still Same

old fundy right-wing hypocrites who care about 4 issues. Still don't give a rats ass about environment - they went nuts when McBush did his "off shore drilling" one liner. He may be preaching differently, but they ain't listening.

What will be discussed all next week by the punditry, will be the response Obama (the true Christian) got vs the part-time, pandering, prepped & coached McCain got.

[Median Democrat]

10. Disagree - Look At DU - Liberals Vigorously Disagree

And as this article notes, there have always been, and hopefully there will be more Christians who do recognize the need to take care of the environment. Indeed, Rick Warren has focused on the environment and on poverty unlike other preachers who avoid such issues.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0815/p01s01-uspo.html

/snip

Many leaders have spurred the broadening of the evangelical agenda, including Richard Cizik of the National Association of Evangelicals (on the environment), Jim Wallis of Sojourners (on poverty), and David Gushee of Mercer University (on torture). They have all sparked criticism from the religious right, which insists on hewing to a tight social agenda on abortion, homosexuality, and the courts.

/snip

My personal theory is that the Christianity and liberalism overlap, but that Christianity has been hijacked by the corportate types who do not want to upset people and make them feel obligated to help the community, which is what environmentalism and social justice requires.

With abortion and homesexuality, if you are a straight male, you can sit still and you are halfway to salvation. However, if you really do read the bible, then you know that this is not the case. There are over 200 references to poverty in the bible. In contrast, there are only about 20 total references to homosexuality and none to abortion, except for about 5 references to people in the womb.

Yet, the Religious Right is not demanding social justice or focusing on poverty, they are spending all their focus on abortion and gay marriage. Why? Because it is a them issue, not a you issue.

So, I applaud those Christians who are returning to the roots and message of Christianity, rather than this judgmental tripe that caused me to really drop from organized religion.

[otohara]

11. I Said Warren Was Different

but how do you explain the wild response McBush got in response to off shore drilling? The crowd isn't listening to Warren - otherwise they'd know that we can't drill our way out of this energy crisis by mucking up our beautiful shores.

They did not applaud Obama's opposition to war and the killing of innocent walking/talking human beings, but go crazy when McBush says life begins at conception, thus abortion is bad, unnecessary wars...not so bad.

[Median Democrat]

12. Well, This Church Was Not Exactly Representative and Obama Did Fine

What if I told you that Obama was about to go into one of the most Republican cities, in one of richest and most Republican counties in the State of California? Wait, before you answer, which if I also told you that he will be asked questions by an Evangelical pastor in front of his congregation?

Well, Obama just did that, and he came out of it with Rick Warren calling Obama a friend and vouching for the fact that Obama is a Christian, and this alone probably made the whole trip worth it.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/polisubs_0100.pdf

County of Orange:
Republicans: 596,475
Democrat: 384,983


City of Lake Forest:
Republicans: 15,776
Democrats: 7,758

So, Republicans probably outnumbered Democrats by at least two to one, since we are not even talking just Lake Forest. We are talking an Evangelical Church in the City of Lake Forest. In other words, they were white, rich and Christian, yet Obama did just fine.

Finally, as noted by someone else who pointed this out, the only people attending were church members who paid between 500 to 1000 to attend, so they probably were not even representative of most of Rick Warren's congregation.

So, I would not generalize from the applause regarding what most Christians believe. Also, these beliefs are not static. They can be changed, and we should use forums like this to promote such change and focus on issues like the environment and social justice.

[NashVegas]

18. Ever Heard the Phrases "Owning an Issue" or "Bandwagon"?

The place for religious leaders to speak of the environment is in their church - not on TV. Just as their church is the same place they should be talking about contraception (or not).

By inserting themselves into a movement that has already gained traction and would move forward with or without them, leaders (religious or otherwise) are attempt to get inside, gain clout and direct that movement. It has little to do with religion and everything to do with quest for power.

[Joe Bacon]

13. Hey, they are ALL in the Je$u$ busine$$

Republicans talk the Jesus talk BUT they ALL walk the Ayn Rand Walk. They mutated Jesus into Je$u$ and added a couple more chapters to their Bi-BULL named "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shurgged".

And lets remember those RepubliCON Je$u$ talking points!

I was hungry and you told me to get off my "lazy ass" and work. You didn't care that I was elderly, disabled or orphaned.

I was thirsty and you said the "invisible hand" of the free market would stimulate an entrepreneur to invest in a beverage company that would relieve my thirst.

I was a stranger and you despised me because of the color of my skin or I was gay or lesbian.

I was naked and you had me arrested for lewdness.

I was ill and you told me that I should have bought a better health insurance policy, even though nobody would sell me a policy because of my pre-existing condition

I was in prison and you cheered because it was my third strike.

That's what RepulbiCONs believe. That's NOT what I believe!

[tsuki]

15. I was a stranger and you despised me because of the color of

my skin or I was gay, lesbian or a woman.

FIFY

[1Hippiechick]

16. For other readers who do not catch the scriptures you are referencing: Matthew 25:35

And Obama's talking points EXEMPLIFY this basic Bible teaching! The far right just doesn't get it!!!

[Joe Bacon]

17. Oh they get it in the end!

The high priest of the RepubliCON gospel is Milton Friedman and the high priestess is Ayn AS IN MINE Rand.

To RepubliCONs, the ends justify the means, and the more you have, the more Gawd loves you.

Now, if that is true, God loves Bill Gates more than anyone else. BUT somehow I doubt that!!!!!!!!!!

[Gabi Hayes]

19. seen this? whole thing starts here. well worth a read.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

[1Hippiechick]

23. LOVE it!!! Bookmarked it, too! :)

[Bluenorthwest]

21. Not just the far right

Riok Warren says gay people have no human right to exist and that he will not tolerate us. Just to be clear about Warren.

[1Hippiechick]

24. That is disgusting - so glad I left the "purpose-driven" church that was affiliated w/Saddleback!

My Christ LOVES you, and I do, too!