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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:42 PM
Original message
Tonight's the Night


Tonight’s match-up between John McCain and Barack Obama will be interesting. The two are going to be discussing issues involving personal values, presidential leadership, and international affairs. The moderator will be Rev. Rick Warren, the author of "The Purpose-Driven Life," and will be held in a church, which has caused some concern among those who advocate an absolute line between church and state.

These concerns are real. In the past eight years in particular, we have witnessed the damage that a sociopath can do by tricking people into believing they are religious. More, in the past 28 years, the political influence of the conservative religious right-wing has created problems for both those with different faiths, as well as those who are not religious. No where is the problems this has caused more evident than in the make-up of the US Supreme Court, which has become all too often a mouthpiece for the intolerant republican right-wing.

Tonight’s presentation, however, is not in and of itself either unconstitutional, or a threat to the separation of church and state according to our federal laws. Politicians who are candidates for the Office of the President have long discussed issues of personal faith. In recent years, the republican party has been able to exploit this to their advantage, with the single outstanding exception being when Jimmy Carter won in 1976. Tonight, we will witness another example of how democrats can use these issues to win elections.

Barack Obama’s presentation is going to be different than Carter’s in ’76, of course. But he is in a position where he can only benefit tonight, while John McCain is in a no-win situation. In order to fully appreciate this, we need to keep in mind the "three groups" that each candidate has to deal with in every election contest. These are: {a} those who always support you; {b} those who always oppose you; and {c} the "undecided," who tend to decide every close election.

In Obama’s case, his Group A is solid. More, his Group B – those who believe he is a Muslim, or who will not consider voting for a person with brown skin – have already made up their little minds. What is important are the members of Group C. For many Americans, there are still questions of who exactly this eloquent young man is: they may have seen one of the campaigns in the primary contest attempt to smear him by using clips of Rev. Wright, or they may have been influenced by some of the misinformation being purposely spread by the corporate media. Tonight, he will be able to reach a significant number of these voters, by talking frankly about issues that they care about.

Poor John McCain is in a different position. His Group A is supposed to include the republican religious right-wing. However, these folks don’t like McCain, and they do not trust him. Thus, McCain’s primary focus tonight has to be connecting with those he is supposed to already have backing him. While McCain is utterly willing to both lie and humiliate himself, the religious right will remember McCain’s record.

Among his Group B will be numerous democratic activists who will also remember McCain’s record, and who will use his attempts to snuggle up to the religious right against him for the rest of the campaign. And Group C will see McCain exposed for what he is – a person who has displayed no solid core beliefs in this campaign, and who cannot afford to speak honestly about any of the issues that are important to them.

Enjoy this presentation tonight. We are entering a new phase of the 2008 campaign, and it will be remembered for marking the point where Barack Obama left John McCain in the dust.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where will I be able to watch this? CNN? MSNBC? CSPAN?
Thanks.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I read somewhere that the church has a site and will be streaming,
also Readersdigest.com (never even knew it existed) and another site I don't recall. Big help, huh.

I'm guessing and hoping that it will be streamed on the news sites for those of us without cable. If they don't have it on the stations you mention, I'm sure they'll be streaming somewhere. Again, big help. :eyes:
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. CNN is covering it. n/t
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Arnold Judas Rimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. MSNBC: 8 EASTERN/5PACIFIC
Or in about 5 minutes from now, in other words.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. CNN
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I didn't know Warren wrote that book.
Someone in our Town's Labor Day Parade (last year) shouted, "Hey, Tom!" and tossed that book out of a trolley car, straight into my hands.

I took one look at it and handed it to the person next to me.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why people feel the need to read a book that purports to tell them how to live their lives.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. that book was made more popular because of a hostage like incident
Edited on Sat Aug-16-08 06:58 PM by Whisp
a couple years ago. foggy on the details, but a woman ws being held in her home and read parts of the book to him and eventually she was released.

thats the only reason I remember that book title or the author.

it had tons of air time on CNN
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I remember that.
Some guy shot up a courthouse in Atlanta and killed a cop on the street.

Later on, it turned out that meth was what really saved her ass.

The hostage and the shooter were high all of the time.

So much for the book, eh?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree. Another reason McCain will have a problem:
I believe he was raised (and may still be) Episcopalian. We are not big "religion talkers", even in Church on Sunday Morning. The whole idea that you need anyone or anything between you and The Big Guy (whether a Priest or a whole social network) is kind of counter the whole zeitgeist...

The Primary Religious Experience for Episcopalians is an internal dialogue...
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I thought he switched to Baptist when it was politically advantageous for him to do so. nt
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Maybe on paper.. but it's not so easy
to switch worship "style".
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I don't get the feeling he's much of a "worshipper". I think that will
come across tonight. Obama speaks with real feeling when he talks of his faith.


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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. If it is being held in a Christian church, that is troublesome. What are all the Americans who are
not Christians to think of this? If I were a Jew or other religion, and the questioning were done by a Christian evangelical-fundamentalist, I'd be turned off the event.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I suspect that
there are going to be people who will either not watch it at all, or turn it off.

However, there will likely be more people who are of different faiths or no faith, who recognize that the next President will probably be appointing two US Supreme Court justices. Because the US Supreme Court is, no matter if we like it or not, the nine people who define the line between church and state in our society, tonight's discussion will be of significance to them.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. I have no problem with Obama reaching into this (or any other) demographic.
In fact, I am dazzled by Obama's game plan.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Obama is rested and ready to go- McLame was making Gaffs left
and right in Colorado and was called out on them. He is also starting second
and McCain almost never goes past five o'clock. Advantage Obama
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Is this the official thread? n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It may as well be
the first one.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. It may not be unconstitutional
But it's getting dangerously close to the "no religious test" portion of Article VI, sec. 3....
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. Obama is doing a great job
tonight. :)
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. DOWN GOES FRAZIER! DOWN GOES FRAZIER! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!
:-)
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. who wants to count the "My friends"
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Listening to McCain, one would think it's 2004.
It's as though he's Bush in the 2004 election. Man/Woman= marriage. "I'm going to hunt down Bin Laden".

This is hard to watch. I'm really tiring in my wait for Americans to stop believing the hype, and to use their own brains.

So far- Obama is an intelligent man who has a detailed series of plans to energize America.
McCain is a very narrow and nearsighted man who was tortured.


As I watch this I realize that the real power in this country is the people. If they buy McCain's little stories, they'll simply put a check in the box next to his name. Of course he couldn't win this election unless the unspeakable happens. But it feels as though everything is upside down. The country looks at two men, while the real election is happening elsewhere. In living rooms. The quality of this country does not lie in these two men, but in all of the other people in the country. Having said that, even a tiny bit of good leadership will go a long way in making great changes. It's like the house is on fire, and everyone's sleeping. The polls are melting, species are dying, cities are being bombed. Most in the name of petroleum.

I heard an interview on a great radio station out of London (Resonance FM), where the man being interviewed said that American elections should be voted on by Europeans. Had that happened in our primaries, he said we'd have ended up with a nominee to the left of Obama.

Alright. Enough of my blabbing. It's good to see the process started. On to the convention...

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. My guess
is that his inability/refusal to identify what income qualifies as "rich" will not go over well with millions of Americans.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Apparently our children are all rich
enough to pay for this mess we're in?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. He was rehearsed and phony.
But he's getting props from the CNN punditry in spite of this.
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