DEAR PRESIDENT CLINTON

[Phx_Dem]

This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time so I thought I'd share with those of you who haven't read it.

Dear President Clinton;

Sir with all due respect, (and given your recent behavior I am not certain that much is due), I am writing to ask you to stop obsessing with the notion that "we" think you are a racist. "We" don't think you are a racist. You can let that one go, Sir. Find a new reason to throw a tantrum, betray your party, lower yourself in our esteem, but the "racist card?" Old news ... wasn't really news to begin with. We know that you are not a racist ... if anything we credit you as one of the great bridge builders across the racial divide that once scarred our landscape. We think well of you for the most part, so get over it!!!

See the thing is, Mr. Clinton ... it is not about you. This is what you cannot seem to grasp. This is about a country in turmoil ... a country in real danger of losing its way. This is about us plain old Americans ... we the little people, (who do not think you are a racist). We are working here. We are trying to elect a leader who can chart a new course, a way out of this national hell. We are coming together we pesky little people, Yellow dogs, Blue Dogs and Indies are linking arms with Obamacans. Folks of every color, creed, and religious persuasion are standing together in this election because we know the jig is up, because we know that our very survival may depend upon it. We are prepared to compromise and most of us are willing to sacrifice time, money, and even our beloved identity politics.

And where are you in all of this? Bill Clinton the once great leader of the free world is whining about being misunderstood. You are sitting on the pity pot and pitching a big ol' pout. You are standing up for yourself and yourself alone when so many are down. Do you really want to be the guy who put his ego before the good of the people he once cared deeply about? The guy who blocked the light because it did not shine brightly enough in his direction?

<snip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/beth-broderick/dear-mr-president_b_119285.html

[butterfly77]

1. You hit it right on the nose...

[tblue]

2. And the best way to put the stake in that is to work like hell to elect Obama, sir.

Good post. Thanks.

[wyldwolf]

3. "one of the best posts I have read" - actually is pure horseshit

Pure unadulterated "progressive" over dramatic horseshit.

[highplainsdem]

6. I agree completely.

[murielm99]

93. Thanks for injecting some common sense around here. n/t

[snake in the grass]

96. Same here.

I can understand his anger. I'm 42 and Clinton was the best President I have witnessed in my lifetime. For almost 20 years now he and his wife have not only suffered outrageous attacks from the right, but have had to defend themselves countless times from the left. It is truly amazing that he again gets criticized when he finally expresses his disappointment over the cheap shots from his supposed allies. Democrats just don't take kindly to winners.

[jjr5]

105. I don't understand why

people aren't acknowledging the Clintons' shortcomings during primary season. Before that, democrats treated the Clintons like gods, and we still are giving them respect for what the Clintons - esp. Bill accomplished in the past. But, I think not to acknowledge the immature and divisive behavior by these leaders of our party during the past year and 1/2 would be not holding ourselves -Democrats, accountable for our actions. We don't want to put our hands in front of our eyes, like the republicans, and pretend that everything is okay and just not hold people accountable, do we? We're democrats, we're better than that.

[loudsue]

107. The Clintons ARE the DLC. Republican infiltrators to the Dem party.

Corporatists. As time has passed, it has become more & more clear that they are the biggest divisive force in the Dem party....and Hillary is a focal point of divisiveness. Look what she has done to the Dem primary....her minions TO THIS DAY are threatening the convention AND Howard Dean.

NAFTA was pushed through by Bill Clinton. Even friggin' JESSE HELMS saw what a mess NAFTA would create for Americans. And look who the Clintons surrounded themselves with during the primary.

But the Clintons are STILL DLC. DLC are the people who are trying to destroy the Dem party, and have fucked up every campaign they've been a part of, unless the candidate was neocon conservative. Look at Joe LIEberman...the poster boy for the DLC, speaking at the republican convention.

THAT is the Clintons. They are snakes in the grass setting out to make the Dems more republican than the Nixon republicans were.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Yes, it's sick.

1) One of the least racist white men his age gets tagged as a racist for purely tactical political reasons. For months.
2) He says "I'm no racist."
3) Some other bozo who pretends to speak for some undefined "we" says, "Nobody ever thought you were."
4) Said bozo then accuses him of "playing the racist card." (Whatever that is.)

[Usrename]

17. Yeah, it is pretty sick when you think about it.

Clinton doesn't have a single criticism at all for the monsters that are ruining the planet, notd one unkind word about them.

But he sure does like to lash out against those lefties that voted against Hillary in the primaries.

It's pretty sick. I sure wish he'd hurry up and figure out what the real problems are, and drop this nonsense.

The sooner the better.

[chimpymustgo]

66. Utter HORSESHIT. Bill Clinton is a good man, and the people who have slandered him are scoundrels.

[inna]

41. "Pure unadulterated "progressive" over dramatic horseshit", exactly. n/t

[Usrename]

43. The Clinton lies about Obama being an empty suit are starting to stick.

Maybe you believe the lies, the ones about McCain being an accomplished leader and Obama giving a speech.

I don't see how people can swallow such lies without having to puke.

[emilyg]

45. Agree.

[Zhade]

73. Truth hurts, huh?

clinton lost, and part of why is her and her husband's lies and racebaiting. Get over it.

[No Elephants]

103. Not only Bill's.

Not only her husband's racebaiting. Her campaign's and her own as well. Bill and her campaign took the lead, but, ultimately, she spelled out that she was the candidate of the hard-working white folks (implied: not the welfare-collecting black folk)

[Captain Hilts]

4. Bill Clinton is not a racist. It's that simple. To say so diminishes the term. nt

[Phx_Dem]

7. You obviously didn't bother to read the post.

The fact that Bill Clinton is not a racist is stated very clearly in the first paragraph.

[wyldwolf]

10. I did, and let's examine the first few lines

Sir with all due respect, (and given your recent behavior I am not certain that much is due), I am writing to ask you to stop obsessing with the notion that "we" think you are a racist.

Why must "progressives" armchair politicos continuously insult our intelligence? YOU don't believe Bill Clinton is due respect? The only twice elected Democrat since FDR and the only successful Democratic administration since 1968 doesn't deserve all due respect?

Despite the incredible economic record and world-wide good will this President left us, "progressive" backstabbers could never be appeased. He just didn't "get you off" did he? And what is the "recent" behavior you scorn? Working a political campaign in opposition to the one YOU backed.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Usrename]

44. Progressive backstabbers?

It's the Clintons with all the backstabbing lies.

Or maybe you also believe their made up lies about McCain being good leadership material and Obama gave a speech.

Obama may be the most accomplished candidate to run for president since Bill Clinton.

Why do you stand with people who lie about such matters?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Usrename]

60. I guess some folks will believe anything.

Some folks might argue that Obama, having been reelected twice, has actually completed at least two terms as an elected official, and others might argue that he was a very successful author, in addition to being an accomplished academic, before he ever announce any bid for the presidency.

But hey, what do those people know?

You have a nice fantasy world to believe in, and you seem to know so much about what goes on in your make-believe world, and I certainly wouldn't want to keep you from enjoying your pretend world.

[RaleighNCDUer]

85. Re public financing -

you are saying you WANT him to spend taxpayer money on his campaign when he doesn't need to?

The ONLY reason for taking public financing is to avoid special interest lobbies and the corrupting influence of their money. When Obama said he preferred public money it was to keep the lobbyists at arm's length. His attracting such phenomenol amounts from individual donors surprised even him - and realizing he could fund his campaign with the millions of $20 to $200 donations he understood he could avoid the taint of lobbyists AND the restrictions on spending that comes with public financing.

What's the problem with that?

[tmoore411]

92. Actually saying I want someone who does what they say they are going to do

Not someone that says what they think everyone wants to hear, then does whatever they want. I've seen enough of that kind of leadership already.

[snake in the grass]

97. With all due respect...

Obama would be a fool to take public financing at this juncture. He said he would if his opponent did so as well. McCain didn't. It is perfectly legitimate for Obama to continue with the funding he is receiving. I have more problems with his FISA vote to tell you the truth.

And for those of you who would argue that he had to vote that way to remain politically viable, I would ask you where your understanding was for Hillary? That was the argument against her. Kerry voted the same way, but he is somehow honorable. Hillary is Bush in a pantsuit. Disgusting!

[RaleighNCDUer]

130. Never mind that this way he STILL takes no lobbyist money,

which was the original intent.

You want someone to stand by whatever they say even if it is stupid and counter-productive.

That's the way republicans do things, chump.

[NashVegas]

52. Go Go Go

Truth dope.

[Zhade]

74. Yeah, NAFTA really helped.

What universe do you live in? It's certainly not the real world.

[wyldwolf]

101. LOL! Says the guy who got info about Clinton dead wrong and stood by it for months!

[Major Hogwash]

98. Bubba used black people during the Lewinsky scandal to act like he was forgiven.

When was the last time Bubba even went to church?

He probably hasn't been there since his political needs are now over.
But, when the Lewinsky scandal was going hot and heavy, Bubba went to black churches every week and surrounded himself by religious people who really believed in him.

So, this year, the real Bubba came out of the woodshed.
Don't believe me?
Just go ask Representative Clyburn.

You have to be lilly-white, ignorant, or a Clinton sychophant not to think what Bubba said was not racist.
He played the race card, and when he was called on it, he reacted in true Clintonesque fashion - he blamed his accusers!

When Hillary appealed to her white supporters, saying they were "hardworking white people", that was the first time I have heard a Democrat ever say anything about the color of their supporters since George Wallace in 1968.

[wyldwolf]

100. "forgiven?"

73% approval rating the day after impeachment. :)

Forgiven.

[Major Hogwash]

110. And that number was that high largely due to the black people that Bubba used!!

He ain't fooling anyone now, though.

[wyldwolf]

121. Got a link for that?

No?

[Major Hogwash]

124. No, I just know that Bubba used blacks as a shield to protect his fucking reputation.

Ask Representative Clyburn.

[wyldwolf]

125. so not only do you not have a link, you're trying to divert from your original "point."

[Major Hogwash]

128. I'm not diverting from anything.

You want to defend Bubba because he is the last president of the Democratic party, fine with me. I know who got Bubba into office, and it wasn't Bubba.

It was Ross Perot, and a lot of black people that were afraid of losing more of what they earned with Bush serving a 2nd term.

You need a history lesson in politics, sonny.
The term "sistah souljah" came about in 1992 because of Bubba.
You need to find out what that term means, and then re-evaluate your moral value system.
Because the more you know, the more you will be able to evaluate.

[wyldwolf]

129. LOL!

You want to defend Bubba because he is the last president of the Democratic party, fine with me.

Psst! The ONLY two term Democrat since FDR

I know who got Bubba into office, and it wasn't Bubba.

Hey, Mr. Obvious - a president NEVER gets themselves into office. Voters do.

It was Ross Perot,

A new "progressive" myth borrowed from an old conservative myth.

You need a history lesson in politics, sonny.

Sonny. :rofl:

Hey, wanna debate your Ross Perot claim?

[butterfly77]

119. Did you see McCain last night...

now he is trying the same strategy of talking about how much he loves black people and he thinks they can't see through it...

[Major Hogwash]

126. Yes, I did. And there's no bigger lie. McCain supports getting rid of affirmative action in Arizona.

Arizona is currently engaged in a lawsuit to overturn affirmative action in their state.

Just one question, why now?
The timing is very suspect, but considering that Obama is our nominee, it doesn't surprise me.

Because Arizona has a long history of racism.
They were one of the last states in the entire country to adopt Martin Luther King's birthday as a holiday.
Governor Fife Symmington fought against having an MLK holiday in Arizona for years. They successfully sued in federal courts until they spent nearly a decade appealing the decision to recognize it as a holiday.

For years, Arizona state employees did not get the day off with pay.
The rampant racism was so bad that the NFL moved the Super Bowl out of the Sunbowl stadium in the early 90s when the Governor said he would not back down from his position against recognizing MLK Day as a holiday.

100s of millions of dollars in revenue that would have been spent in Arizona were lost as a result of the Super Bowl being moved to a different state.
Symmington was later forced to resign from office because of some other scandal and a Democrat, who was serving as the Lieutenant Governor at the time, took over the office of Governor.
But, she only stayed in office 1 term.
She was one of the best Governors Arizona ever had!!

[grassfed]

5. "jesse jackson ran a good campaign in sc too."

whatever

[StevieM]

28. Right. And the Obamas never made any observations about racial patterns in voting, like saying

"black America is going to wake up." But alas....the rules only apply if you are the Clintons.

Furthermore, by the time Clinton said that he had ALREADY been accused of race-baiting, for alleged reasons that we no longer hear about, since they have been replaced by the preferred example. And when everyone is talking about race non-stop, like they were in SC, thanks to Obama's injection of race into the campaign, it is understandable that Clinton would acknowledge it in some way. Besides, there was no "strategy" going on there. It's not like Clinton came up with some plan to prepare for the aftermath of SC and executed it, he just made a statement that was unwise.

But the accusation that he was trying to convince people that Obama was just a black candidate is not only untruthful...it's kind of ridiculous. The Iowa caucuses had just happened, which obviously showed that Obama could win with white voters (not to mention close races in NH and NV). So in order to believe the official Obamite version of events you need to believe that Clinton thought that the American people would quickly forget about all those primaries/caucuses that had taken place so recently before-hand. That makes no sense.

Steve

[RaleighNCDUer]

89. Actually, it makes perfect sense, and is exactly in line with Clinton's

campaign style. He knew that Obama was going to win big in SC, and was creating the talking point that it was because SC would naturally favor the black candidate - thus focusing on that primary fight and letting Iowa slip down the memory hole as being just a fluke. After all, didn't Hillary just have a fantastic comeback in NH? (Not really, but that's how they spun the 2pt win, when three weeks earlier she had a 20pt lead).

Clinton ALWAYS focused on the immediate, and ignored any bad news from the past. How the hell else could they spin NH as a comeback win, after she fell 18pts?

A plan to prepare for the aftermath of SC is EXACTLY what it was. Diminish the opposition, diminish the validity of the opposition's win.

Standard tactics.

[Major Hogwash]

99. Because there are so many blacks in Iowa!!

"Black America is going to wake up". Who said that?

Sounds to me like you're really reaching for some all-inclusive excuse to give Hillary and Bubba a pass for what they said.

Martin Luther King's holiday was around the same time as the South Carolina primary, that's why it hit a nerve so hard for some of us, Steve.

[saracat]

39. Didn't he? I can never understand why that statement was twisted.

Is "Ed Brooke was a good Senator too" also racist? Just wondering.

[CTLawGuy]

108. hmm

why is Obama being compared to Jesse Jackson vs. the multitude of other SC primary winners who did not win the nomination, say, I dunno - JOHN EDWARDS, for example?

Because invoking John Edwards is not a good way to say "you only won because a bunch of mindless black people voted for you because you're black", while invoking Jesse Jackson from 20 years ago is a GREAT way to say that. Bubba ain't stupid. Willing to shamelessly race bait yes, stupid no.

[SwampG8r]

70. as far as i know

[Top Cat]

8. Thanks for keeping it real!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

13. I am sorry this is crap and Clinton has not been "pouting" this is a

thinly disguised ". hit piece" meant to demean President Clinton. Clinton was in fact called 'racist" by Campaign surrogates and no apology has been offered. He has actually been fairly gracious all things considered.

I can't imagine why some folks thing he should just take abuse for the "sake of the Party". The Party owes him far more than he will ever owe the Party.And yet many so called progressives do nothing but demean him 24/7.

There was a lot about the Clinton presidency that I did not like but taken as a whole it was one of the best of the 20th century. Bill Clinton has "paid" his dues and he is "entitled" to respect. He has "earned it".

That does not mean that he isn't subject to criticism. I believe everyone should be able to be criticized, even the nominee. That is what free speech is all about. But nonstop bashing for bashings sake and then disguised "bashing" as "clever" is not helpful. If anyone needs to STFU for the sake of the Party is is the nonstop Clinton Bashers who denigrate a 2 term Democratic President.

[Skip Intro]

16. What you said. n/t

[grassfed]

21. he's totally pouting

It's the only strategy he has left after this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2pw

it's our fault that we all saw it.

[polmaven]

23. What that clip

doesn't show is the exchange immediately BEFORE that question, which specifically asked about Jesse Jackson and his 2 presidential campaigns. President Clinton did not just pull jackson's name out of thin air.

But, of course, that doesn't fit in with the agenda, so we all ignore that.

[grassfed]

27. your gonna hurt yourself contorting like that

Bill and Hillary are not Mary and Jesus, sorry to break it to you so bluntly.

[polmaven]

33. I see,

so we will simply continue to ignore the actual facts of any situation that does not suit our particular biases. Do I have that correct?

It does not take a contortionist to consider all of the facts. It may be a little mind bending, however, to do all the cut and paste necessary to lose some of the facts.

It also may take a bit of a gymnast routine to find exactly where, in my post I ever said anything close to Bill and Hillary being Mary and Jesus. From which slime pit did you pull THAT? I have never said Bill and Hillary are above criticism. I will not, however, just sit back and watch them slimed by people who call themselves Democrats.

[grassfed]

34. Bill is like a card shark, Hillary is a less gifted poseuse

They charmed you.

[polmaven]

37. Yeah,

I didn't think there would be anything like an actual related response.

[suzie]

94. Bill Clinton has been a politician most of his adult life.

And he didn't grow up in Alaska, but in the segregated South.

So please don't tell us that Bill Clinton just didn't know what he was saying and how it would sound on television, like some country boy just taken advantage of by those awful TV news folks.

This is the same Bill Clinton who parsed things quite well before a Grand Jury. And if one looks at the youtube clip, Bill Clinton has the same look that he always did when he was about to zing someone when he made the statement about Jackson. There was no hesitation, he looked straight at the camera and said it.

So, let's ignore all the statements made by both campaigns apart from this. The only agenda here was Bill Clinton's.

[Honu one]

36. Bill Clinton does a pretty good job demeaning himself

He doesn't need help from the press. I liked him as a POTUS, but what I've seen him say on camera during this campaign has been enough to change my mind.

[AuntPatsy]

76. Thank you...it really gets old...

[Spazito]

14. Wow! n/t

[angee_is_mad]

15. He's not a racist, but

he used racists fears to gain votes for his wife and that is shameful!

The reason he is obsessing about it is because he is catching hell from the black community. Some people on here may want to ignore that fact, but it is true.

[grassfed]

18. undeniable

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2pw

Just what exactly do Bill's defenders think he meant by the Jesse Jackson comment? Please illuminate me. And all those PUMAs inflamed by Obama's FISA vote are cool with Hillary's vote for the war, for Kyle Lieberman (Iran War green light), votes against a Cluster Bomb ban (they might try reading something about the 06 Lebanon war that doesn't come from AIPAC - between supersize meals of course), and so on. Talk about blind hero worship. Big fat phonies just like the Clintons.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polmaven]

24. All of the PUMAs

inflamed by the FISA vote? Now THERE is revisionist history at its very best!

:rofl:

[grassfed]

25. They call Tom Hartmann, Rachel Maddow every day and mention it.

They're very idealistic you see. They'd be more effective however if they could refrain from eating while talking.

[wyldwolf]

26. they ALL do?

yeah.. sure.

[grassfed]

29. we must be really bored going at it like this...

thanks for giving me something to do other than the work in front of me.

oh, this is cute, http://www.blogtalkradio.com/NO-WE-WONT/2008/07/07/No-We-Wont

and the cow thing, I saw Monica at a market in Greenwich Vlg and I can't deny the frisson of cow in her appearance.

but back to work.

thanks for the diversion.

Watch OBAMA v McCain tonight on CNN!

[wyldwolf]

30. just waiting for the wife to come back from the grocery store

The blog talk radio link qualifies as proof of your "All" statement?

And I plan to watch the CNN show tonight

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[psychmommy]

50. i checked out the comments section.

who did i see but the lovely tellurian. that was a blast from the recent past. not a surprise.

[Zhade]

78. HAHA! Ol' Telly, who was so arrogantly WRONG about clinton being #44.

Still makes me smile that such an idiot was banned.

[SwampG8r]

77. read the comment section the commenters are calling for a well known former DUer who

left this site to cause disunity when it was denied here

shocking

i wonder how many of the constant chorus come here to continue the disunity while posting on other sites statements which would remove them from here forever

[polmaven]

35. Were you here

during that whole fiasco? It was not the Clinton supporters who were taking the lead in the flaming of Senator Obama on THIS board.

Oh, and btw....do you believe everyone is who they say they are on a radio show? The reason I ask is because I have this bridge for sale......!

[saracat]

40. I think he meant Jesse J ackson ran a good race in SC.

Odd. That is even what Jesse jackson thought he meant. It takes a really convoluted interpetation to take that remark and have it mean anything but that. Whatever.

[goclark]

32. He isn't really catching hell from our community IMO

He has hurt many of us to the core.

Not that he cares but his comments will not soon be forgotten.
There is really nothing that we as a community can do to let the most powerful former President know how deeply he offended us.

He can't run for President again. if he did he certainly would not get the same kind of support that he did to gain the White House.

Some people just think they can treat us any old way and we will still smile and bow to them ~ not this time!

[BlooInBloo]

42. That's good enough for me.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[sniffa]

38. Excellent post

K&R

:thumbsup:

[Jakes Progress]

46. Here is how far we fall.

Now DU is channeling HuffPo to keep the Democrats divided. Can't even make up enough shit on our own. We have to go to HuffPo for more dung. Got to admit though, it does its job well. It's mean. It's a lie. It's divisive. It's counterproductive to electing Obama. Nauseating, but effective.

[Bette Noir]

47. Much too generous to Mr. Clinton.

The country did well during his administration, but he was hardly the light of salvation.

While I do not believe him to be a racist himself, he and his wife were blatantly courting the racist vote during the primaries. I have lost all respect for him.

I'm tired of appeasement of the far-right wing of the Democratic Party.

By the way-- I know the media get it wrong repeatedly, but there's only one President at a time. Ex-presidents are correctly addressed as Mr. Surname, in this case Mr. Clinton. Holders of other titles get to keep them after retirement, but the Founding Fathers explicitly Did Not want to create a class of royals.

[DFW]

68. Ex-presidents are traditionally addressed, rightly or wrongly, as Mr. President

I have never seen (or heard) Bill Clinton addressed as anything else since Jan. 20, 1992.
Considering what replaced him, I'd say (unless referring to Al Gore), rightly.

[Zhade]

80. The far-right wing of the party is above, brandishing shock and outrage that clinton isn't deified.

He and his ilk forget that their DLC contingent is now irrelevant and despised.

[emilyg]

114. President Clinton.

He'll never be Mr.

[bertman]

48. I have to say that the comments in the clip don't seem innocuous to me, but then the part after

Bill laughs is not clearly audible to me. The rest of the clip seems like a fair assessment of Obama and his campaign.

Yes, I was staunchly behind Obama throughout the primary race after Kucinich fell by the wayside.


As far as the pouting part, it seems a credible charge. The former President has been invisible since the primaries ended. Why is he not giving Obama the support of a very popular ex-President?? I think it says something about Bill Clinton's lack of devotion to the Democratic Party now that he and Hillary are not considered the top dogs. It's sad but true.

I voted for him twice and felt he was an exceptionally good President except for his indiscretion with the divine Miss L.

[Tarc]

51. More assholish dumping on the Clintons, I see

A shame that the usual rules of not slagging on party members get magically suspended when the Obamamanicas jump on one of their tow favorite targets.

[Zhade]

82. You clinton cultists really like to twist the rules into a shape they never had.

There is no such rule as you claim.

[Jim Sagle]

53. Thank dog the primary war is over, so we don't see unmitigated flapdoodle like this anymore.

[Another Joe]

54. PROCLAIMATIONS DON'T MAKE IT SO

... if anything we credit you as one of the great bridge builders across the racial divide that once scarred our landscape.

So you have proclaimed the racial divide filled? Sorry, but you have greatly undermined your point.

How can anyone watch this current election cycle and even imply that there is not a huge racial divide that scares our nation?

Your proclamations don't make it so - either you are not paying attention or do not understand these issues.

[Tutonic]

55. I wonder if many black Americans would agree that he is not a

racist. Funny how you can continually espouse racist views during a six month stretch and later insist that you were misunderstood or made to look a fool by that "young boy". We know that the Clinton's have always stood for equality, brotherhood, blah, blah--because they always said it. just like Bush told us that Saddam had the weapons of Mass Destruction. You know if they did it then by God it must be true. After all why would they lie to millions of dumbstruck Americans? The damage that the Clinton's did to their political fortunes is insurmountable today, ten years from today, 100 years--who knows maybe forever. He'll be dead a long time before he gets a free pass from people that understand "words" have meaning--just not the meaning that he told us. Obama should have told him, Hillary and the crazy PUMA crowd to meet John McCain in front of the gates of Hell--because that's where their brand of "catharsism" belongs.

In the end Phx_Dem it is all about him and her and their merry band of deranged followers.

[girl_interrupted]

56. Tonite McCain Praises TR,Reagan & Bush. Obama praises? bush

We can all really learn a lesson from tonites forum...McCain extolled the "virtues" of Teddy Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan & Gw Bush, whether they deserved it or not. Obama praises who? GW Bush. Honest to God Democrats when are we going to learn?

Bashing our own, serves whom?

We have had presidents like FDR who took us through a depression and a world war. Obama never mentions him. Clinton took us from deficits to surpluses, best economic growth of the 20th century. Obama never mentions him. Regarding adoption....Bill Clinton's plan sped up adoption& tax credits to adoptive families http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E2DB123FF936A25751C0A961958260 Not a word from Obama about it.

Here's the deal....Reagan, Both Roosevelts & Clinton had their faults. Difference is you don't see republicans even mentioning them, let alone harping on them. They also find something to praise them for and that includes bush. Us? seems this board finds new ways to bash Clinton every other day. We want voters to see the good democrats have accomplished in office, so they will have the confidence to vote for us. And the Democratic Party has a very good history, that for some screwball reason our candidates never bring up.


It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Wake up, God Dammit! If you can't say something nice about our own..STFU! The primaries are OVER. It's time to UNITE. Republicans understand that very well, why we don't is beyond me.

[Metric System]

58. You're not really a Democrat, are you? Because fanning the flames does not help Obama, unity, or the

Democratic party. But I'm sure you know that.

[Tutonic]

61. Well when Hillary and Bill fanned the flames of racism during an

"historic" election as they referred to it--did that help unity or the Democratic party? But I'm sure that you know that too.

[Metric System]

63. I'm sorry but you will never, ever convince me that Bill and Hillary are racists. Again, if you

think this argument will win over even more people well, good luck to you.

[Tutonic]

64. I did not post here to win people over or to convince you about Bill or HIllary.

I asked the question if many black Americans feel that he is a racist. I don't personally know the Clinton's and therefore cannot really vouch for all of what they say. However, based on what they continued to repeat during the primary season--"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina", "he's a fine young man", He's an elitist, "I have no reason to doubt that he is a Christian", "I undersantd the hard working white Americans," etc., I wonder if many black Americans read something more into what was said. As a white American, I certainly viewed their remarks with considerable skepticism. And since we do not know them personally--how else are we to judge them as political figures, except by their words.

[Metric System]

65. Biden said this about Obama: "you got the first mainstream African-American presidential candidate

who is articulate and bright and clean-cut." Meanwhile, early Obama supporter Sen. McCaskill said this: "What this man has done, Barack Obama, is, he, for the first time I think, as a black leader in America, has come to the American people not as a victim, but rather as a leader." Oh, and Sen. Ted Kennedy accidentally called Obama "Osama" at one point. Are they all racist too?

"And since we do not know them personally--how else are we to judge them as political figures, except by their words."

How about judging them by their actions during their career in politics? I think the Clintons have done more good than harm on the issue of civil rights.

[Tutonic]

67. I think that most southerners would agree that Jesse Helms, Strom

Thurmond and Bull Conner and George Wallace did one hell of a job providing jobs, commerce and government spending for the citizens of their respective states. And therefore most southerners would tell you that Bull Conner, george Wallace, Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms did more good during their careers than harm. Judging by their actions alone, most white politicians have done more good than harm for white and black Americans--because most black Americans have been locked out of the political process until recently (1940s-1950s). What Joe Biden said is probably indicative of his views about blacks and I do recall that he apologized profusely after making that unfortunate statement. Claire McCaskill doe not need to apologize for what she stated--I recall the context in which she made that statement and it was not offensive. Ted Kennedy made a slip of the tongue remark--nothing to be offended about. Sort of like when John Ashcroft did the same thing to Obama--because their names Obama, Osama are in quite similar sounding. Are they racist? I wouldn't judge them to be racist on what you've stated. On the matter of Civil Rights--I can tell you that the Clinton's have not much. "Civil Rights" is not the same as appointing Ron Brown to a cabinet seat. If it was George Bush would be an even bigger Civil RIghts proponent than Clinton. Also Civil Rights is not the opposite of Racism.

[Metric System]

71. Wow, it sounds like you are comparing the Clintons to Helms, Thurmond and Wallace?!? Really? I don't

know how to respond.

[Tutonic]

75. Making a comparison to their acts, not to their persons. Clearly as I previously

stated, I do not know them, I judge them by their words and over time what their actions bear. Thurmond and Helms like the Clintons made inflammatory statements yet when Thurmond and Helms died there were blacks and whites that praised their ability to secure needed funding for jobs, roads, housing, etc. in their States. Yet this action--like Clinton appointing Ron Brown does not make them "Civil Rights" trailblazers. Also typed text does not make a sound.

[Metric System]

81. Excuse me, but Bill and Hillary NEVER made inflammatory statements anywhere near as vile as Thurmond

and Helms. I can't get over that when you think of the Clintons THOSE two are the names that come to your mind to compare them to!

[Tutonic]

84. You seem to be tired or unable to focus on what is being written.

I never attempted to say that the Clinton's were as vile as Helms, Thurmond, Wallace or Conner. I have attempted to respond in a logical manner to statements that you made but clearly you see something in my written statements that I fail to see. So I will close with my original question: Do you think that many blacks agree with the post or do they believe that Bill and Hillary Clinton are racists?

[Metric System]

86. Well I just think it's interesting that those are the names that pop in your head.

[Tutonic]

87. They're all southern Reconstructionists.

[McCamy Taylor]

57. Huffington Post lead the "Clintons are racists" campaign so its ironic to see them acting all prissy

now. There are some real atrocities in this old journal of mine about left wing press attacks on Hillary Clinton, many of them from the Huffington Post.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/160

Be sure to check out Jane Smiley's post in which she charges that the Clintons will move to the center and run a "polite" campaign in which they will try to court Republican voters if they get the nomination---and that Obama will not. She must be some kind of bird brain. Every nominee moves to the center.

:rofl:

[Tutonic]

62. Every nominee moves to the center? Kerry? Bore? Obama? McCain?

A smart Democratic nominee normally moves right. A smart Repulican nominee moves to the center.

[Zhade]

83. Smiley's a fool if she thinks clinton will get the nom. It's over, and it's Obama.

NT!

[QC]

88. Smiley should stick to writing tedious academic novels. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

59. Very nice. Tough Love.

:thumbsup:

[SwampG8r]

69. thisw must be completely true

i look at those who call it bs and whatever and their agitation alone tells me it is true

my grandpa said"throw a rock in a dog pen the one who yelps is the one you hit"

[Zhade]

72. "The guy who blocked the light because it did not shine brightly enough in his direction?"

Genius.

And well-said -- just because the clintons used race-baiting tactics doesn't make them racist, and Obama certainly never said that they were.

[northofdenali]

79. I haven't read all the replies to this post.

I'm 54 years old.

I have NEVER had a better President than William Jefferson Clinton.

He turned the United States of America from a Republican stronghold to a Republican-owned Congress that almost bowed down to him.

He took deficits that made my great-grandchildren into serfs, and turned them into profit.

He made sure jobs/medical care/welfare were available for those who needed it. I did.

He cheated on his wife? Who gives a fuck! So did Eiesenhauer. So did Kennedy. So did Johnson. So did Nixon. So did Reagan.

Crap like this about the best, most diplomatic, most unarguably ABLE President of the United States makes me sick. :puke:

Read some history before you put your faith in Huffington.

And get a clue. IT AIN'T ABOUT CLINTON ANYMORE. The Repukes STILL use that argument to excuse Shrub. President Clinton has been out of office for ...........DUHHHH......... 8 FUCKING YEARS.

I don't care what his wife does.

I don't care what his "advisors" do.

I care what he did WHILE HE WAS ACTUALLY THE PRESIDENT.

Shouldn't you?

[Skip Intro]

90. AMEN! nt

[suzie]

91. Actually, the exact opposite of what you said seems true

There were a good many places in this country, even in conservative counties, where there were still Democratic officeholders. After the Clintons and the thousands of wonderful televised moments on his bimbo eruptions, it was a like a nursery rhyme, "And then there were none.

Lost the Congress, lost statehouses, lost sheriffs, lost mayors, lost Democrats who switched parties.

[northofdenali]

95. Follow the money,

I don't know your age, or your affiliations, or your sympathies, or anything else about you, except your answer to my post.

He lost very, very little. Do some research. Even after the attempted impeachment, he lost little. Real Democrats didn't switch. Real liberals ddin't switch. Those who were intimidated by the Repubilcan Machine switched/betrayed.

When was YOUR President able to say our "deficit" was now above "8 Billion" to the profit side?

Where was YOUR President when Al Gore stood before Congress and said the crap was crap?

If your believe Karl Rove was your president, then you are fully allowed to believe this crap. Bill Clinton is as much a racist as I am (sorry GoldenGirl, WhiteBird, Big - guess you know now) - and your judgemental crap after he's been out of office for 8 years is garbage.

As is the article.

As is the accusation.

As is the "lost this/that/other" he lost them because of the extremely strong Republican machine. If you weren't living and voting at that time, it wouldn't matter.

I was. I helped elect folks that were "not electable" according to the Alabama regime of the time.

Now, I'm hoping to do so here.

Bill Clinton a racist? Ok. Yeah. Right.

IS YOUR PRESIDENT GOING TO GET RID OF CHINA'S PROFITS ON OUR DEBT? IS YOUR PRESIDENT GOING TO RID MY CHILD OF A DEBT TO A WAR THAT PROFITS NONE BUT THOSE IN THE BILLION-PER-YEAR CLUB? IS YOUR PRESIDENT GOING TO GIVE US THE CHANCE TO DEVELOP ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES?

Go away about Bill.

Put your energy elsewhere.

[Penndems]

102. Game, set, match - thank you, Denali

What you said so succinctly. :) :thumbsup:

Couldn't have posted it better myself.

[suzie]

109. No wonder Democrats have done so badly in the post-Clinton era.

I'm a lifelong Democrat who's been involved in politics for awhile. I've watched the damage that Bill Clinton, with his lying on national television, did to all Democrats.

Watched as my two elderly schoolteacher neighbors, who'd stared down segregationists as they helped supervise integration of schools in Alabama, became so disgusted with all the Clinton scandals that they reregistered as independents.

Watched as one statehouse after another went to Republicans. As the Congress was lost to Republicans and the Clintons did little to try and get it back.

Watched at the end of the Clinton era as Bill's brothers-in-law sold pardons for drug dealers.

Watched in the post Clinton era as McAuliffe meddled in state politics, choosing candidates loyal to the Clintons who were losers that did little to help candidates down ticket.

As for the 'loyalty test' that we Democrats should have to pass? I don't believe that voting involves a loyalty test. Voters choose between candidates based on their trust of them. We had one at the top level who lied and lied and lied, before he was elected, after he was elected.

Truth is, that Democrats would have been far better off if the national leaders had forced Bill to step down during the impeachment saga.

[guruoo]

122. Welcome to DU

[RaleighNCDUer]

133. Jesus F. Christ -

What the fuck does that even mean?

"When was YOUR President able to say our "deficit" was now above "8 Billion" to the profit side?

Where was YOUR President when Al Gore stood before Congress and said the crap was crap?"

What the fuck is this with the "your president" shit? Name some fucking names so we know who you think you are talking about.

OUR Democratic president WILL fix the trade imbalance with China. OUR Democratic president will pay down the debt by reimposing taxes on the wealthiest and the corporations that have been escaping taxes. OUR Democratic president will create a "green revolution" in industry, and the US will become a leader in green technologies, as it was poised to do 30 years ago under Carter.

And OUR Democratic president will not be a DLC corporatist sell-out. He will be Barack Obama.

[pecwae]

106. Great rant!

:thumbsup:

[RaleighNCDUer]

132. "He turned the United States of America from a Republican stronghold to a Republican-owned Congress

that almost bowed down to him."

I have no idea what that means.

He won a narrow victory over a crippled Republican incumbent, with a strong independent drawing the majority of his backing from disgruntled republicans. Two years later we saw the strength of his coattails as the Democratic controlled congress went Republican, to stay there for the next 14 years. His strongest initiatives were warmed over republican programs - welfare 'reform', NAFTA - and the only Democratic initiative of any importance, health care, was a disastrous failure.

Nothing of his economic 'success' was systemic - as is evidenced that it was all overturned within the first 12 months of his successor's term. Mostly, all he did was get out of the way as the Pentium chip revolutionized American and world-wide business. When he took office 1 house in an hundred had a home computer - at the end, it was 1 in 10. That was not his doing.

He handled the Balkan wars well. Iraq, not so well. He fixed the problems with FEMA, making it an effective responder to national crises; that was all undone by Bush.

The upshot is, he didn't CHANGE anything. He kept the DLC programs close enough to the republican agenda that the transition that followed his was very easy for them.

And lets not forget how he failed to prosecute the BCCI - Iran/Contra criminals, who all came back with Bush.

Jimmy Carter was head and shoulders better than Clinton for actual accomplishment.

[onehandle]

104. Blah blah blah. Bill and Obama will be Rock Stars at the convention and there's nothing that DUers..

...can do about it.

The most popular living President and the next most popular President will work together to make America great again, so take your bitterness elsewhere.

Actually keep it right here at DU where it belongs and away from the real world where Bill is beloved.

[Cherchez la Femme]

111. Yet another 'Clinton is the devil' post

You'd think DU'ers, of all people, wouldn't ape Repuke talking points... sad, very sad.

[guruoo]

112. Just another Clinton hater providing aid and comfort to the RW enemy n/t

[specterderrida]

113. Bill should check the DU board--He and Hillary and supporters have

been racist.


He has every right to be angry about that charge.

[sui generis]

117. yep, and DU is the authority on fairness

in political discussions.

I'm a racist, I guess because I don't agree with the clinton haters. That's a new definition of racism for me.

fucking asswipes. seriously.

I have never seen a bigger bunch of children than during the primaries here, and ppooofff you guys are still around trying start a DU war over absolutely nothing.

[JNelson6563]

115. An interesting study in contrasts would be

Compare Al Gore and Bill Clinton from the time their Administration ended. Kinda stark IMO.

Julie

[RaleighNCDUer]

135. Too astute an observation to be ignored.

Al Gore has accomplished more real change in the world in the years after failing to get the presidency than Clinton made during and after his term.

Gore started a world-wide initiative combatting global warming.

Clinton went golfing with GHWB and raised money for his library.

[Catherine Vincent]

116. Yet another crap diary from huffington post.

"Dear President Clinton" is the only thing they got right.

[bertman]

118. Wow. What a discussion. Very interesting.

Let me go back about a thousand comments in this thread and say that I misstated when I said I didn't find Bill Clinton's comments innocuous. What I meant to say was they didn't sound racist to me.

I'm one who feels that President Clinton has kept a very low profile since the primaries. I think this has been to the detriment of party unity and the Obama campaign. I don't pretend to know the reason why. But it just seems to me that this is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF THE LAST 20 YEARS. We are on the brink of America becoming a totalitarian dictatorship. Yet, the best-known and probably most-respected Democrat in modern history is not positively involved in this campaign. To me that is very strange and disappointing and SCARY.

As this discussion has progressed I haven't read anything that backs up the claims of Bill Clinton being a racist or making racist comments. If you think that saying "Jesse Jackson won twice in S.C." is racist, well I just don't see how that comment is racist. Another supposedly racist comment was "He's a fine young man." WTF!! Does somebody really think that's a racist comment? And the other reference was to Hillary's comment about not having a reason to doubt him being a Christian. I think Tutonic nailed it. People are reading more into those statements than is there. This was a Presidential primary, folks. It wasn't a tea party. There was a lot of shit slung by both sides, but in my opinion the Hillary campaign was by far the worst. Not racist, but desperate and saying anything to win. But that doesn't mean that they were being racist.

So, please show me some RACIST comments by our former President and I will concede the point. But until then I'll just be pissed at him for laying low for so long--and pouting.

[RaleighNCDUer]

136. Having no profile I can't say for sure, but I'll give odds that you

are not from the south.

People raised in, and long time residents of, the south recognize the way words are used here.

I've never lived anywhere else - NE, midwest, NW, California - where people are more adept at saying "fuck you" in other words which are of themselves inoffensive, but you KNOW they are saying "FUCK YOU". It is a southern art form.

Bill Clinton is a southerner, born and bred. He knows what he said. And several million southern bred voters, black and white, Democratic and Republican, know what he said too.

Here's a clue - if you say something and one person says it's racist, or race baiting (which is the actual charge - not that he is racist but was indulging in callous race baiting) it might be a simple misunderstanding. If you say something and a million people say it is racist or race baiting, you need to apologize.

Which, you might remember, HE DID. He apologized. Two days after the Jesse Jackson comment he APOLOGIZED - meaning, he knew he crossed the line. But it was just one of a number of race-baiting comments from Hillary's campaign, so the apology kind of fell flat and was forgotten. Now he pretends it didn't happen because it doesn't fit with the claim of "we didn't do it".

[bertman]

137. Born and raised a proud TarHeel. Watched UNC win its first national basketball championship

when they beat Kansas in triple overtime back in '57 at the age of ten. You'd better believe there were some racial epithets being hurled at Wilt Chamberlain during that game. He was the first black basketball player UNC had ever faced.

My high school was integrated in '64. I went into the Army in '66. Basic training at Bragg in a platoon with half eastern North Carolina white boys and half D.C. ghetto black guys. I can tell you some serious stories about that.

I'm no stranger to racism and I can usually spot a code word/phrase, but I sure missed the ones the Clintons were supposed to have thrown at Obama. And I was a big-time Obama fan. Still am. And still not very fond of Hillary.

Glad to meet up with another DUer from North Carolina.

To be honest, that whole episode got by me somehow. What exactly did Bill Clinton say that was so offensive? As I said regarding the video, the first sentence or two he said was not clear to me. I did catch the Jesse Jackson reference but I thought that was just being nasty--not racist.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

120. You do realize that slinging this crapola up on this board only hurts our chances in November, right

Right?

Slandering and name-calling a well-respected Democratic President is not the best way to enthuse the Democratic party to vote Democratic in November.

But if you think continuing on petty primary talking points well into the general and having us at each other's throats as a result is a smart way to go, that's the bed you--and other like-minded individuals--have apparently made for us.

[kiva]

123. But that doesn't matter to the Clinton haters.

As far as I can tell, their main goal is to slime the Clintons, and if Obama happens to get elected in the process, fine. The fact that disparaging a former Democratic president does nothing to inspire confidence in undecided voters is irrelevant, it's all about criticizing Bill and Hillary.

[QC]

127. Many of the people who post here are not Democrats at all,

and thus do not want to see us win in November.

That's the only possible explanation for all the shit-stirring that a small group of posters keeps up 24/7.

The real question, of course, is why the management tolerates it.

[Beacool]

131. Oh geez, another day, another B.S. post to further throw crap at the Clintons.

Who is this "we"? Whoever wrote this letter doesn't speak for me. I have no problem whatsoever with Bill Clinton. He doesn't like being called a racist, I think the man has a right to be angry and hurt about it. What's the problem? He's not grovelling enough for some of you? Well, too damn bad!!!! Bill is the only twice elected Democratic president in decades, he doesn't have to kiss anyone's butt.

As for divisive, it's not Hillary who is divisive. I would lay the blame elsewhere.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.